hairloser1

hairmee - I agree with you and I think we need to take a better look at exactly what this patient had done. In the explanation of the procedure, the Dr. says he wanted his hairline strenthened. In the top-down shot you can clearly see he doesn't have a hairline! I guess he would be an nw4 or so because really the front half where there's normally hair is basically bald at this point with just a few hairs left there. Also, he had grafts placed by his temples. If you estimate just 250 grafts on each side then that means he received only 1500 grafts on the top front half of this head. A conservative hairline was used which was smart, but still, with just 1500 grafts over that large an area, there's no way this was going to be "significant" cosmetic change. It also appears he has, at best, average hair caliber, if not below, so that would indicate even more grafts needed to acheive a good illusion of denisity. Personally, I would never get a strip scar (and go through all the other hell for 6 months that HT patients describe) for such a modest change in appearance, but as long as the patient is happy, that's all that matters I guess. So many times I wonder why guys with so much hair loss go for such small sessions. Maybe it's financial, who knows. But take this patient, the back half looks strong, so if he's on meds, I would think 3500 grafts minimum in the front half would have been indicated here, if he had the donor for it that is. That's not a shot at the Dr., it comes down to what the patient wants and is happy with.

I'm sure he's thrilled to have so much hair now compared to before. I have to say, though, unlike most of the other H&W results I think the hair line looks a little suspicious...almost too perfect design wise combined with being very high, and then also really thick hairs spaced at below normal denisity. I guess non-hair-obsessed people wouldn't notice. Maybe I just don't like the hairstyle. I'd love to see what a #3 or 4 buzz cut would look like on him. That could be a good look, it's hard to tell though.

I really like Nizoral 1% and have used it for years. I had a script for 2% and used that for a while also. For the last few years, I've been getting a custom 2% Keto shampoo from Dr. Lee, but don't really like it anymore. Anyway, I ordered 2% Nizoral from an online pharmacy. Even though the picture they used shows the same bottle as the Nizoral we buy here in the US otc, the bottles I received are completely different looking. Also, the shampoo is different. Instead of being blue (like the 1% and 2% Nizoral I've used in the past) it's red, smells completely different and has a different texture. Do you think this stuff is for real? Maybe this is the Candian version of Nizoral? Buy why do they show a picture of the Nizoral were used to here in the US? Thanks

A thought that comes to mind is how this very question should be an extensive part of every consultation. For anyone looking to get a HT that is adjacent to native hair, the Dr. should explain exactly what the options will be as that native hair is gradually lost. The Dr. would be terribly remiss by not covering this. Of course, it's not something one really wants to think about when getting a HT.

Aren't all the ingredients listed on the product? I would compare them very carefully. Unless you can no longer afford Rogaine I would advise you continue using it. Many years ago (after I had been using Rogaine for several years) I bought Equate (generic version - not sure they even still make it). I noticed two things - it crystalized on the dropper a lot faster than Rogaine and the other thing is after a month or two of using it I started shedding like crazy. I switched back to Rogaine and was again stable for years. This is just my experience. However, I have found over 20 years of using hair loss topicals that hair follicles and the hair cycle are very fragile. Follicles get used to the EXACT solution they've been absorbing for months or years. Any change can cause them to cycle and enter the telogen phase and even cause telogen effluvium. Our goal is stable, anagen phase follicles for as long as possible. There's much more to it than just Minoxidil. I personally feel follicles can grow dependent on propylene glycol also and removing that can cause them to have withdrawal symptoms and enter the telogen phase. There's just too many reports of guys switching topicals that both contain minoxidil but having major shedding. And then not recovering all the hair they lost. They aren't all imagining things. The best advice I can offer anyone is to use pick some minoxidil formulation and use it forever. And, if you hair is relatively stable, never switch to some other formulation thinking it will make things better or because it's cheaper. It's all about years of consistency. There are amazing results out there, but these are guys who have diligently used the same routine for many years. You can't stop for a year here or there and switch from foam to liquid back to foam and then over to some other custom made solution.

They say it only takes a weekend course to learn how to administer the cells to the scalp...LOL. They totally discount the artistic ability needed to create a hairline or a crown of hair. They say new follicles will be formed. Where will these form? Just randomly over your scalp. I bet that will look great!! LOL

It's definately interesting to think about how things might end up. Hair seems so simple but is actually one of the least understood organs we have. That's why most people underestimate how difficult it will be to stop or cure MBP. It seems it will be some combination of prevention and cure for many years to come. By the time the technology you describe is available there may be remarkably better prevention methods. I definatley feel that what you describe will be the type of cure that occurs for someone with extensive loss or even moderate. I just don't ever see a topical or oral medication that will re-produce a 75% density or greater natural looking head of hair. Unless it is something that can re-activate almost all of your old (dead?) existing follicles then you would just have random hair placement. How would a hairline get formed? Seems to me that we will need man or machine to inject good follicles where they should be and that will be the "cure". However, millions may never need that if some major, safe breakthrough occurs that turns our at-risk follicles into the same type of follicle in our donor area.

Yeah it's expensive, I took Propecia for about 11 years also. One day a couple years ago I went to a urologist for a routine check. I told him I took propecia and he offered to give me a script for proscar (I'm in my early forties - I imagine he wouldn't have done that if I was quite a bit younger). Anyway, I went from paying 70/month for propecia to 7/month (with insurance) for proscar with has 5mgs of finasteride instead of 1 and lasts much longer than a month. Just thought I'd share. You might be able to get a script for proscar and have insurance cover it.

It seems there used to be much more discussion about whether or not someone was a candidate for FUE. I guess there is a small test the Dr. can do to determine if your donor is such that it lends itself to safely removing grafts. I haven't seen any dicussion of this lately. I also haven't seen anyone post about how they had the test and were not a candidate so they couldn't get FUE. These days, it "seems" anyone who wants FUE just walks in and requests it and gets the procedure. Does anyone have any information or thoughts on this?

I guess it kinda depends on what type of hair loss you feel your experiencing. If it's MPB and you do a search on the web, you will find sites that list the side-affects of very high testosterone levels (by the way, this isn't nearly as common or concerning to doctors as having too low a level of testosterone). Anyway, hair loss is often listed as a side-affect of high testosterone (the normal range is pretty wide, so I'm guessing this would be above the high-end of normal). Assuming these sites are correct, then that would mean it may hasten MPB. Who knows. I feel pretty safe in saying that too low a level does not hasten MPB. It's been well documented for hundreds of years that shutting off the production of testosterone prevents the progression of MPB and if it happens early enough (before puberty) MPB never happens, so I feel it's safe to conclude that testosterone causes MPB. As another example, for years some women who suffer from certain types of hair loss/thinning have been given drugs that lower their production of testosterone as a means to slow or stop their hair loss (siterone is one such drug). Anway, this topic has been debated to death. It's often asked if too much weight lifting hastens MBP, too much sex, etc. (anything that might cause an increase in testosterone production). People feel strongly on both sides. Often people make absurd arguments like if weight lifting caused hair loss then everyone who lifts seriously would have hair loss. I think we know enough about testosterone's and dht's role in MPB to know that if your follicles are susceptible to dht then having 2x (for example) the average level testosterone or dht for a male can't be a good thing for your hair. Having said that, if your follicles could care less about dht and your one of those guys who will go through life with pretty much all of your hair, then it may not matter at all if you have 2x the normal amount of testosterone.

This is the type of HT that kinda makes me cringe. There's so much diffuse thinning and miniturization taking place. In the top-down picture you can clearly see the typical horseshoe pattern has already developed. By adding 2000 grafts into the front section of thin and miniturized hair this just seems like a classic case where he may lose (shockloss) a lot of the existing hair permanently from the HT. If this happens, then what will his net gain be? Just looks like a recipe for disaster to me. Of course, I could be completely wrong and it might be a great result and big improvement. We don't know if he is has been on meds. If this was me, and I really wanted to get a HT, I would get on meds for awhile and then go in to a doc and have him buzz it down and give me no less than 4000 grafts. Then, of course, stay on fin. With 4000 grafts there may still be shockloss of course, but at least there's a lot more grafts to help increase the net gain of hair.

I ordered some of this early last week. I'm hoping it will arrive this week some time. I researched the online pharamcy and it had very good reviews. I was on a transgender's blog and he (she)...lol...had been ordering it from there along with others and had no problems getting it. I'm just at a point in my life where I want to try it. I'm getting divorced, in my forties (so no more kids, etc.) and have been losing hair rapidly for two years. I'm still probably an nw3 but there's a lot of miniturization going on. I've been on minox for about 16 years and on fin for 11 years. I stopped both for a few months a few years ago and lost tons of hair. Some of it came back, but since then I've never been able to stablize again. I feel it's because I've been using a propylene glycol free solution and also just becuase I'd used those drugs for so long that stopping them allowed MBP to really take hold. Anyway, even though I take half a proscar a day (2.5 mg of fin), and have been for over two years now (I switched from propecia) I still have a very high sex drive so I don't mind at all if that is curtailed some. Also, I have a very oily scalp. I've researched in the past what can be done but it's basically just shampooing twice a day at least. One of the other side affects of cyproterone acetate is a reduction in sebum production in the scalp and face. I would welcome that. I just think I have a high T level. I work out quite a bit and have no problem building muscle and getting ripped. So, bacially I'm just gonna try this and see what happens. There seem to be some good benefits. If it stablizes and strengthens my hair then I may go for a HT (around 2-3K in the hairline). If you want, I will keep you posted on my results.

Would not stop MBP. The only proven way (based on many documentated cases over the years) to completely stop the progression is to eliminate the production of testosterone (or at least most of it). It's not a pleasant thought, but men who are castrated (physicially or chemically) do not lose any more hair due to MBP. It's also well documentated that the vast majority also don't grow back much hair that was already lost. Although some do grow back quite a bit - maybe because it hadn't been gone that long and comes down to a timing thing. Chemically, there are drugs that eliminate almost all production of testestorone. These are known as very powerful antiandrogens. They are often used by transgender (M to F) people and also used to treat sex offenders. Some men just choose to use them because they have an out of control sex drive and want relief. Obviously there are some major side affects. The most popular, mainstream oral drug used around the world is probably cyproterone acetate. It's not approved for use in the US. It's prescribed for females to treat hair loss in some cases. Obviously it's not recommended for males. Transgenders use it a lot as well as sex offenders and guys who just choose to use it. There are guys out there who take this drug and/or spiro (orally) to try and stop their hair loss. I haven't researched what type of results thay are haviong. I read an account of a guy who started taking this because his wife never wanted sex and he wanted to eliminate the frustration and desire. He says he felt great on it. One of the side affects is he says he was almost completely bald from the crown forward to the front but you would never know it because now it's all covered by hair. Obviously no pics. Here's the link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=androcur+sexless+marriage&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

Yes, I'm a receder and it brought back some hair but more importantly it maintained my hairline for many years...I'm sure of that. So yes, definately use it all over, but only if your willing to fully commit to using it everyday for a very long time (along with propecia). And, once you start, don't alter your routine trying to get better results. Don't switch back and forth from liquid to foam or don't stop for a while thinking that taking time off is good for your hair and will give better results. That theory is totally inaccurate. Once your follicles get used to minox everyday they will want it every day.

Just to let everyone know, my guinea pig remark was an attempt at sarcasm and was directed towards JamesH to see if he could explain his comment. I felt the way he kind of just floated that comment about them (someone?) raising prices after the results were in was a little strange, especially since he didn't provide any background or reasoning behind that statement. I really don't think any reputable clinic would do something like that. And I feel SMG is top-notch in this business. It's just a little scary thinking a clinic would offer introductory pricing as they gain experience in a new techinique. And no, I'm not saying that's what anyone is doing. Only that it was clearly implied in the comment by JamesH. HairHope - exactly. That was the purpose for the question. I was asking if anyone "in the know" might have knowledge of where the FUE "market" is heading given the current supply/demand dynamics for that procedure. I also wasn't quite sure what the average price is out there right now.

So your basically saying the people paying $6 are guinea pigs and if they turn out okay then SMG will raise the price? Wonder if they are being told they are guinea pigs and part of an experiment?

Thanks TC - that's great news. Much easier to justify going that route with those prices. SMG looks like they do great work too. I don't know if they have many FUE patients who are 1+ years out but I will be following them closely to see how they turn out.

Shedding is so frustrating. So many times everyone says it's a GOOD thing when starting on a hair loss treatment. That's not ALWAYS the case. If you read what Dr. Charles said, it could be weak hairs that would have been gone in a short time anyway. Just because a hair sheds when starting minoxidil, it DOES NOT mean that a better stronger hair will replace it. The follicle may just be lost forever. Now, hopefully, SOME will come back and get stronger and also your other hairs that didn't shed will get stronger and stay around much longer if you continue to use minoxidil. This is the reason I think using this drug is so frustating for so many is because it CAN actually accelerate your hair loss temporarily and some of this hair will not always come back. I've found that the stronger, healhier your hair is when srarting minoxidil the better. If you have much thinning and minuterization, forcing these hairs through another immediate cycle is not always a positive.

Does anyone have any thoughts or inside information on whether the cost of FUE might come down a little bit in the future. Last time I researched it was about $10/graft. 1500 grafts on anyone is goiIng to make a very modest difference at best. $15k is so much money to spend on such a small change in appearance. I'm certainly not knocking the doctors for charging that because I know it's very labor intensive and requires great skill. Just hoping it will get more affordable....

I think the number of grafts you need depend on what your expectations are. Some guys are happy with very, very thin coverage over a large area, but most are not. Also, think about this. There are guys who are norwood III's that get 2500+ grafts just in the front third or so and they still express some disappointment (they thought it would be thicker, one side is thinner than the other, etc). You seem to be maybe at least a V. If I were you, I wouldn't let anyone touch me unless they carefully examined my donor area and could guarantee at least 4000 for the first pass. Even with that you will most likely want another 2k in a second procedure to at least then finally have "decent" coverage over the front and crown. You may not have that much donor so I would certainly find out what they feel your max is. Just my opinion of course. I just feel if your gonna do it then really do it and try and do it right. I would ask at least a couple different docs and myself (after much research) these questions (and hopefully get honest answers): 1. What's the caliber of my donor hair compared to the thousands of guys you've seen? Above average, average, below average. Thick caliber hair strands make a HUGE difference in how your HT will look. 2. What's my donor density? High, average, low. 3. How much laxity does my donor area have compared to others? Same scale as above. Scalp exercises may help with this but if you have really good laxity already then that's a big positive. 4. How many total grafts do you think I have available? They may not be able to answer this precisely but should come pretty close based on questions 2 and 3. 5. Am I willing to take Finasteride the rest of my life (or as long as I care about having hair). It looks likely that your crown and sides will progress to VI territory. What would be the point of maxing out your grafts on the top only to have your sides and crown keep expanding downward. That needs to be prevented as best you can. Currently, that's with fin or dut. If I had your level of loss here's what the answers would need to be: 1. At least average. Thin, really straight hair stands are not good. 2. At least average. 3. Good laxity - above average. 4. 6000 minimum 5. Absolutely If any ONE of the answers was not what I needed it to be then I would walk away, shave it all down, and try and enjoy life without hair.

regret, thanks for posting your story. I appreciate hearing about all different experiences and views pertaining to hair transplants. I think your post was appropriate. I agree that if you started posting on many threads about how HTs are a terrible idea then that would be detrimental to the forum. I think we all know that are thousands of men out there who wish they had never had an HT. Since I started researching I've noticed around five or so guys (in airports, restaurants, etc.) with the tell-tale scar. It was visible because they were sporting the completely shaved look. I guarantee they all wish they had never done it. I do think a high percentage of guys don't fully understand the lifelong commitment involved with HT's and fighting hairloss in general. The prospect of having more hair and looking better is just too intoxicating and the possible short-term benefits out weigh the long term ramifications. Hair is such a funny thing. It's very relative. It seems like just a little more hair can make us happy. Many of the final result pictures I've seen I feel the guy would look better by shaving it off becuase it's just too thin and see through or there's too much bald area left that wasn't covered. However, often these guys are very happy because they have more hair than they did before.

I think you did everything right. You used almost 3k grafts just to rebuild and lower your hairline. From what I remember you had a very strong (somewhat receded) forelock, so just the recession in front and in the corners was filled in. I don't really know what else you could have done other than go to a doctor that would have planted 4000 grafts in that area. Other than one doctor out there, I don't think anyone would have used that many grafts for your hairline. Based on the thousands of photos I've looked at (as we all have, I'm sure), it looks like just about all the grafts came in and the result is exactly what you should have based on the grafts. Maybe a slight shed has occured for some reason and it will thicken up again in the coming months. If I were you, I'd be more concerned about keeping all that thick hair you have behind the HT. Finasteride and minoxidil would be my friends for life. Congratulations on a good result. I know from your posts it was a hell of a journey. I'm glad it finally turned out like it did.

Hey JS, was the caliber of your hair discussed at your consult? This seems to make more of a difference in the final result than the number of graphs. Caliber meaning the average thickness of your terminal hairs in the donor area. I would want the Dr to tell me where I fall on the scale. As much hair as they look at they should be able to tell you where your hair falls in terms of thickness compared to the average. I'm just curious about this because I really think that information should be stated right along every graft estimate that a Dr gives in ordert better set expectations. It's just so important when comparing yourself to other HT results.

The top and back view really show that your pretty close to nw6 territory now - or that's the obvious pattern anyway. Just wondering if you thought about checking with those docs that seem to do 4000+ on a regular basis. If your a candidate as far as scalp and hair characteristics that would certainly seem to be an option - to shave it and then cover as much as possible from front to back. I'm sure you've seen some of those results on here. I guess one advantage to smaller sessions would be the ability to refine the previous work in certain areas where needed. I'm certainly not an expert. I'm the same age as you and probably an nw3 with no crown loss (also been on fin for 12 yrs) and I will be asking for at least 2000 in the front but not sure I would do it with less than 2500. That's why 2700 just doesn't like very many graphs for you. I've seen several nw3's get 3000 graphs or more.

What a difference in appearance. I would really like to see some post-op pics from the second surgery if you have them. Also, how far out from the second surgery is he in the after pics? Very nice work!