norton clinic wakefield

[allan]

Hi all just to let you all no about my bad experience with the norton clinc i had surgery with dr hartly and am left with a scare that is 2 cm wide in places i contactted the clinic sbout this the companys salesman jeremy iserwood who basicaly does not care a less about the sufering it as put me through i strongly recomend anyone one concidering surgery to stay well clear of this place all they care about is getting your cash out of you. ther seems to be quite a lot of bad puplicity about this place only wished i had seen it befor. as any one else sufferd at the hands of the norton clinic or dr hartly.....

[balody]

thanks for the warning allan,luckily though their bad reputation precedes them on all the forums i visit.

thats a bad scar,any plans on trying to fix it in the future?

how was the proceedure apart from the scar,also when was this done to you?

[allan]

I underwent it in 2005 by a dr kevin hartly a very incompatent surgen to say the least. i only just realised it last year when i under went f.u.e. with dhi i contacted the norton clinc but they wernt interested they had had my cash! i have no plans as of yet to have it done as i am in the process of taking legal action against the clinc like may others. I have also made a complaint to the healthcare commission. anyone thinking of surgery should rule the norton clinic out strght away.

[richie48]

Hey allen

 

Firstly I'm from the north east , well east yorkshire anyway bud , and I'm glad to hear you have had a further and more sucessful surgery with dhi with a fue proceedure , have you any pics of your recent revision/repair ?

 

Your scar does look very low , is it that low in reallity ?

 

Have you got any more pics of your scar from differing angles ? as balody's scar also looked very low , however he has assured us that this is not the case in reallity and is just the angle of the photograph and his scar is well within the safety zone .

 

balody quote

"my scar is slightly under the bump,that photo is alittle misleading.

when i buzz my hair that short it always takes that lower hair away to nothing while leaving the hair higher up on show.i dont know if this is due to my weird shape head(peanut head at school)or to my weird donor.

now it has grown there is a lot of hair under the scar,also the scar looks wider in the pics due to the shaving process"

 

This can be seen in the comparative pics below , is this the case with your scar ?

allen left / balody right

 

Have you had your fue into the scar as a revision or have you had a repair done to your poor norton work ?

 

Badhairuk has recently undergone a repair after a bad plug job done by nobel , yet another notorious UK clinic , check it out bud , here's a link

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=143259

 

Allen with your surgery only done in 2005 lets hope the UK clinics are working on improving there techniques however this is another example of very poor work .

 

As all newbies should be aware research is the key to finding a top surgeon to avoid this type of terrible result .

 

Good luck with your second proceedure , I hope you will post pics of your progress

 

richie

[richie48]

hey allan

 

forgot to say let us know what happens if you try to reclaim any money back , it notoriouly hard and i'm interested in finding out if it works for you

 

cheers bud

richie

[balody]

richie,i would appreciate you not using my photos without my permission in the future.

it is clear you have put these side by side to yet again mislead any"unknowing" reader into thinking my scar is similar to that of allans,it isnt.

i should have expected this as it was brought up by one of the others on pb,s site last week,only a matter of time before it made its way here to tell the truth im doubting now if "allan"wasnt put on here just to bring my scar into question.

if so,what a sucker i am.

[allan]

sorry think you may have mis understood me. i had a fue prcedure with dhi to replace my thinning hair in the front its still comming through but its looking good i had 2500 grafts done they wher really good and careing unlike the norton clinc i went to athens for mine they and could not fault them. i'll sort ya a pic out of the front of my head and post it soon. as for the back i'll enclose someother pics. did you go with dhi aswell...

[allan]

pic of the back close up

[allan]

pic

[Bill - Seemiller]

Richie,

 

In looking at the picture you posted above, I do agree that Balody's scar looks quite low. But when you compare that picture to the many scar shots he has on his hair loss weblog, is scar looks very normal and quite good in my opinion.

 

Allan,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience with us. If there is anything we can do to help you or direct you, please let us know.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[richie48]

jeez balody

 

Whoa my friend you need to calm down a little bit . You are missing the point and getting a little too emotional here . I am trying to obtain clarification on from allan, not you , on his scar position , however I apologise if you took offence .

 

The topic might have made a little more sense if you hadn't re-edited your post , as you have since , before you edited your post stated that allens scar looked very low . You had previously confirmed on another topic the position of your scar was o.k and I quoted you as saying so above . I used your picture to compare to allan and nothing else , like i did previously on the topic here on HTN when i compared your scar to mine , link below

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=148255.

 

The picture can be found clearerly on your own blog so no conspiracy theory .

 

My concerns is with allen , who had a poor surgery in the UK and to offer support , not to bother you , allen on the other hand is new and may have needed some advice on what could be done for him on his low looking scar.

 

Your just too quick to point the finger , which is a shame , almost to the point of pararonia ,please take a breath big guy .

 

Nice to see you reply to one of my posts Bill ,i believe the issue surrounding balody and his scar positon has long since been confirmed as ok on the other topic , maybe you had not seen that topic either . Things have got confused due to the re-edit by balody , the issue was raised in the link below

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=148255

 

Hopefully its all become clear now , Balody confirmed to us his scar was not low so i wanted to see if allen felt his was low as it appears in the picture in similar height to balodys which can be seen clearly in the pics in my earlier posts . Even Balody referred to allens scar as low but has since re-edited this from his above reply, so maybe that's why you haven't got all the information .

 

Allan , I had my own surgery with Dr Feller in nov 2007 , if you want check out my blog , the address is above in my side bar .

 

balody ,with regards allen's credibility and legitamicy , i think you owe him an apology , with all due respect , the fact you believe this guy has been put on this forum to expose your scar is , quite frankly ridiculious .

 

I hope that has cleared up any confusion guys

richie

[allan]

hi richi i aint pput that photo next to mine im new to this site i dunno how itys got ther allan

[Bill - Seemiller]

Richie,

 

Funny, somehow I missed that other thread, I mean, I remember it vaguely, but obviously didn't go back to comment on it.

 

The interesting thing is, Balody's scar looks too low in the one picture and yours looks too high, but in looking at other pictures of your both of your scars, it looks more normal. I guess pictures can be deceiving.

 

I can see however, why Balody was at least a little upset, since you put his scar next to another that is obviously quite wide and seemingly low (from the picture). I do believe though, that he over-reacted.

 

Balody,

 

I see no reason to believe Allan isn't a legitimate poster wanting help. I also don't believe Richie is trying to set you up or try to make you look bad though I as I said above, it wasn't a fair comparision.

 

Now I hope you can both make up and be thankful that you will both soon have nice heads of hair

 

Bill

[louierah]

I believe that scar looks very low. I have a scar and will attach photos next week. I had my surgery done at Dr. Destephano(spelling) in Worcester Massachusettes. Although I do not blame the doctor for the results it is in fact impossible to get the result most people want therefore makeing them almost drug addicts of more procedures. I do believe doctors should think long an hard before cutting young men that have barely started balding.

[balody]

absolute bollocks richie and you know it!i never mentioned about allans scar being low,nor did i re-edit my post you are lying now!

Bill,is there any way you can check to see if i edited my first post concerning allans scar?

richie,as far as im concerned you took the opportunity to put my pic up next to a uk hack job.

[Bill - Seemiller]

balody,

 

No, I cannot see if/when anyone edits a post what the previous message said.

 

Bill

[bullitnut]

hi i think we are all slightly getting off the point here which is the norton clinic i too had surgery there twice in fact with very poor results and i too have reported them both to the gmc and the healthcarecommision who both shrugged off the complaint just to let any newbies who have also been butchered there is a campaign running called stop norton just get in contact with stopnorton@yahoo.co.uk they may be able to help i am also gonna post pics when i suss out how to BE WARNED STAY AWAY. ON A FINAL NOTE I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT ITS NOT ALL UK CLINICS THAT ARE BAD I DONT WANT TO GET INTO THAT ARGUMENT.there have been some good uk results shown on here eg balodys. i will post mypics later thanks guys.

[bullitnut]

IVE POSTED MY PICS AS AN ALBUM FEEL FREE TO COMMENT YOU CANT MAKE ME FEEL ANY WORSE THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE READ MY OTHER POSTS ELSEWHERE WILL KNOW THAT I GOT A BIT CARRIED AWAY POSTING ABOUT THIS CLINIC.SO I CAN ASSURE THIS WILL BE THE ONLY ONE ON THIS SITE. BUT I FEEL I NEEDED TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCES WITH OTHERS AS IT NEARLY ENDED IN SUICIDE AND I DONT WANT ANYONE TO HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHAT I DID BY THESE SCUMBAGS BE WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[balody]

hi bullit,had already seen your pics a while back on hlh but just had another look.unbelievable mate,all i can say really.

any plans on getting repair work done?i guess it would be hard to trust a surgeon again after what you went through,but i have seen some great results had by other patients on here and other forums.

[bullitnut]

I am currently saving up like an idiot i cant remember the last time i spent owt ha ha to get this sorted im hoping to have enough cash by the back end of the year ive spoke to a few people already and am seriously considering feller, rahal mainly so i can combine the surgery with a well earned holiday ive spoke to spex on here already and plan to meet up nearer the time thanks againmate and your results look amazing betyour chuffed to bits all the best bullitnut aka jay!!!

[balody]

cheers,good luck.

[louierah]

how would the scars looked if you shaved to skin with Mach 3

[bullitnut]

not sure mate never tried i cant afford mach3 ha ha i use pound shop razors. joking appart though mate i really dont know perhaps ill try

[Dr. Alan Feller]

Much of hair transplantation is subjective and therefore open to wide interpretation and discussion by doctors and laymen alike. However, the proper location of donor incisions based on anatomical landmarks is NOT up for debate.

 

The bottom line is that the scar in Allan's photo is demonstrably and unequivocally in the WRONG position because it is located BELOW the occipital bump (also known as the "inion" or "nuchal bump").

 

The reason for this is simple. The area of scalp below the bump is thinner and contains three layers of skin that do not easily slide over each other. The result is greater tension and potential for a wider scar than excisions made above the bump. The area above the bump, in sharp contrast, contains FIVE layers that glide over each other much more easily.

 

THE textbook on the subject of hair transplantation: "Hair Transplantation, 4th Edition, Unger/Shapiro" clearly lays out the anatomy and physiology and demonstrates with diagrams and text why excision below the bump is plainly WRONG:

 

 

 

I have verified the anatomy and physiology put forward by Unger and Shapiro using Moore's textbook of anatomy and Gray's Textbook of anatomy and can confidently confirm the accuracy of their information and conclusions.

 

Above or on the bump- GOOD.

Below the bump- BAD.

Pretty simple.

 

If we apply what Unger/Shapiro, Moore, and Gray taught us, it is pretty obvious that Allan's scar is BELOW the nuchal bump in direct contradiction to the authoritive texts. While there are exceptions to this rule, they don't seem to be in evidence either in the report Allan gave or the photo he displayed. His surgeon has some explaining to do.

 

Besides the academia cited above, any experienced and astute surgeon knows that the area below the bump is usually tighter, more fibrous, and less conducive to stretching and sliding. The same goes for the donor area just above the ears.

 

Bill,

I would like to respond to your reference as to the appearance of the location of the scar in my patient Richie, Allan, and Balody.

 

Plainly stated my excision was made in exactly the right position with respect to the nuchal bump and within the safest area of hair bearing skin available in the donor area. It is NOT too high as you have perceived and the relative angle of the camera is inconsequencial. I would ask Richie to please post an immediate post op photo of the donor area that may show where his scar is with respect to the nuchal bump. I know it is on or above the bump because that is standard operating procedure with me.

 

As for Allan's scar, it is obviously BELOW the nuchal bump because you can plainly see the bump in the photo and the scar is clearly below it. Doesn't matter what angle the photo is taken at.

 

As for Balody's photo.

I can't tell where the bump is because his hair obscures the anatomy and I've never met the man. It appears to be below the nuchal bump but I couldn't say for sure. Either he would be kind enough to post an operative or immediately post operative photo, or perhaps you can dig one up as I believe he posted them after his second procedure. Balody, perhaps you can provide the photo for us.

 

This is a very very important post for doctors and patients alike. The position of the scar, with respect to the position of the nuchal bump, is a concrete and tangible way of sizing up the doctor you are thinking of using for YOUR hair transplant.

 

I'll also bet $10 that every doctor reading this post will (hopefully) read the textbook sections I cited here and will act accordingly for the good of their patients and their practice.

 

Dr. Alan Feller

Great Neck, NY

[HairDew]

I swear to God Doc, you never cease to amaze me

 

I wish all doctors could be this upfront. I've read some posts of people calling you cocky (you are right and everyone is wrong) but you prove once again that any discussion/argument without evidence, which you DID provide, makes them look like amatures.

 

Great post Doc...