An Excellent Result

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Note - This message was recopied by Pat the editor from the original discussion group to this vastly improved online community.

 

The name of orginal poster and the date posted are listed below:

 

From: J.A. from N.Y.

Date: 5/21/01

Time: 11:54:30 AM

Remote Name: 64.63.70.139

 

Comments

I live in NYC and wanted to add my doctor's name to the field of top hair transplant surgeons. His name is Dr. True of the Elliott & True Medical Group. My results are excellent and people don't believe me when I tell them I'm transplanted. I had seen many of his patients prior to scheduling, which made my decision an easy one to make.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

From:

Date: 5/21/01

Time: 2:37:19 PM

Remote Name: 204.253.11.83

 

 

Comments

J.A. I am thinking of going to Dr. True. I was impressed with his candor and the patience he displayed during our consultation. I also have looked at Dr. Brandy in Pittsburgh. What made you decide on True? Any shock loss?

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Re: An Excellent Result

From: J.A. NYC

Date: 5/22/01

Time: 9:03:25 AM

Remote Name: 64.63.70.139

 

 

Comments

I selected Dr. True because he not only has 10+ years of FULL time experience but he was honest and allowed me to inspect several of his completed patients. The results were some of the best I had seen. The temporary shock was minimal.

[Guest]

Any one have any experience with Dr. Elliot, or had a recent procedure. I met with him today and their technique seems to differ from most. As Dr True has in the bove posts, Dr Elliot is very open and willing to let you witness in-progress procedures as well as meet patients. I was sold on NHI and now I'm thinking about it again....

[Mario]

I AM VERY SURE THAT "J.A." IS AN ELLIOT-TRUE CONSULTANT WHO WORKS IN DR TRUE'S OFFICE IN MANHATTAN - WHO, BY THE WAY, IS ALSO A FORMER PLUG RECIPIENT. CHECK OUT ELLIOTT & TRUE'S WEBSITE AND LOOK FOR THE CORRECTIVE WORK PHOTOS - YOU'LL SEE PATIENT J.A.

 

BE VERY CAREFUL. CONSIDER THE SOURCE!!!

[Guest]

Hey Alex -

 

This is funny that you are talking about Dr. True because my dad had 3 sessions with him already over the last 3 years and he looks amazing. And as far as I know, my dad is not a CONSULTANT with E&T. I met with Dr. True myself several years ago and he is a stand-up guy who doesn't BS or try to sell you.

 

People don't have a clue that my dad had no hair before. Since I am in LA myself, I thought about using his partner Dr. Elliott. I have a consultation with Dr. Elliott this thursday so I will find out more and tell you what I think. I run a plastic surgery company and I know some incredible PSs - one of the most prominent PSs in NYC, Dr. Antell (voted in NY magazine as best plastic surgeon, period) recommended only Dr. True in NYC. My company caters to women only (no hair restoration) so I have yet to have my staff deal with the men's area - we'll do it soon. But I will find out more as I am researching myself for my receding hairline. It's not bad and I have a full head of hair but I am a proactive type of guy who doesn't want to agonize about losing hair. Plus in my profession, I can't be a hypocrite.

 

I plan on doing a 500 session probably. We'll see.

 

I also was intrigued by NHI because of Pat being such a proponent and will have a consultation scheduled with Dr. Rassman to see what it's all about. Since I have a PS company, I will get the straight answers. I'll post as I find more information.

 

Let me know your thoughts about Dr. E? I am myself leery of "chain" type groups which NHI seemed to be with their mass seminars and certificates. We'll see about NHI.

 

Headplanet

[Guest]

hanks for the info. I am actually in Orange County and met with Dr. Elliott 2 weeks ago. I had a follow-up on Fri., but cancelled as I think I will go with NHI, Dr. Mclellan, who is also very highly rated.

E&T was only a filler and I thought I would never even consider them, before I went. I just needed a 4th place to check out. After I left I moved them up to no. 1 on my list, I was that impressed.

 

E&T quoted $6200 for 1100 grafts (I'm a 3a - 4a norwood), plus $200 for labs.

Some details:

 

Wand machine for anesthesia - supposedly less painful.

They double stitch donor area, not sure what the implication is but Dr. E said it makes the scar smaller.

Use of dilators - no one else uses them, not sure as to benefit.

They use a multi-blade knife - you may want to ask about this....(it makes it easier for them, at risk to you)

 

I was a bit skeptical to the patient services director (Lollie somebody) but she seemed nice and honest, stressed how it is a relationship and she would be there for me anytime post op. Dr E seemed very open and honest as well, he made me feel comfortable and spent 30 min talking - I like his personality (at least the way he behaved to a prospect). They offered me to witness any surgery at any time, as well as meet former patients, I was to call back Monday and be able to show up. This really made me think I would certainly go with them, plus 15 min from home. When I called back that Monday, Lollie on the phone seemed to be a different person, like I was bothering her. She said I could only see one of their employees, at 5:30pm on Friday. This immediately turned me off, especially since I have not been able to find any Dr Eliott references on the net, the use of dilators or the wand. Which may be insignificant, but I thought every one would do it this way if there was benefit.

Note** They do not exclusively use Folicular units. The pictures do not look touched up, but wanted to see people myself.

I did find a reference to Thomas-Elliott group (pre Elliott and true) and the person felt he was hacked by Dr. Thomas. The group may have ended due to many lawsuits, not confirmed but that's what this guy said. In any case, that was late 80's and no one did HT's well back then - just fyi...

 

 

NHI quoted $7200 for 1200 grafts, plus $75 for labs (if you want Rassman he charges $10 per unit). Money is no object for me when it comes to this, I want it done right.

The costs are almost the same when you consider the extra 100 grafts ($5.20 vs. 6.00)

 

I only met with McClellan who does 90% of the HT's in LA (no other sales staff). I liked him immediately, he took off his cap and showed me his grafts using a magnifying tool (the magnification was so large that individual hairs looked 3 inches apart on the monitor).You could not tell!!!! He was no BS, asked what he could do for me. I have seen about 6 posts/emails from people that were happy with his work (I know I may need 2+ treatments) and have never seen any complaints about NHI. Spencer Kobren (for what it's worth) recommends like 12 Dr's in all the US, Rassman and McClellan are 2 of them. After reading Rassmans book, and all the NHI material, I decided this was my safest bet. Only use FU's, they do NOT use a multi-bladed knife (that risks damaging your valuable FU's.).

 

So, anyway that's my story (went to Bosley but not worth mentioning). I plan on 8/23 or 9/3.... Yikes... Good luck, I bet Elliot is fine. I just couldn't do it without hearing from past customers, and they were easy to find in McClellans case. Plus, you can go to an open house in Sept and see him work.

 

Thanks for replying,

[NW]

Alex,

Awsome research !!! You will have success..I too read "The Bald Truth" and did extensive research..I plan on sharing photo's next month..if you can do the same <photo's>later..just blur out your face or whatever if you need to....6 mo you will look far thicker...good luck !!!

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Guys, I think the exchange you have going about Elliot and True is excellent - real detail and experience. As for the intial post that I reposted - I too have my doubts as to its source.

 

I was just talking last week with a former Elliot and True surgeon - Dr. Wentland who now has his own practice in Chicago.

 

He impressed me as being very frank and honest. I'm planning on visiting Dr. Wentland to see him perform his procedure. He used dialators in the graft incisions, which hold the incision open until the graft is inserted (unlike the Shapiro Medical groups "stick and place" medthod). This is a practice that Elliot and True uses that I'm curious to see in practice.

 

I too was wary of Elliot and True at first as being just another chain. But now I'm going to look at them for possible inclusion on this site. They do not use microscopes for graft disection but claim that when they did their success rate was no better than their unique practice of using a micro sissors and magnafication. Perhaps my visit to Chicago and Dr. Wentland will be illuminating (pun intended).

 

Please post all you know - the good and bad - about Elliot and True and all surgeons so that we can all benefit. Pat - moderator

 

Thanks for reading this post. But it's your posts that make this discussion group real and vital. Please register - it's free and easy - and then jump into the discussion.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Well, I just got back from visiting Chicago and made a point of researching what I hoped would be some of the better physcians.

 

I met with Dr. Wentland, former Elliot and True surgeon, and saw him do surgery on Saturday.

 

Dr. Wentland had his hair restored by Dr. Elliot and his results looked fairly good. Not quite in league with what I'm use to seeing with Shapiro and his group and others on his level - but good.

 

It was interesting to see the use of dilators in action. Basicaly dilators are actual small nails that have specially shaped points that are placed into the recipient incisions to hold them open until the grafts are placed. Dialators are only used by a minority of clinics including most of Elliot and True.

 

Dr. Wentland is convinced that dilators make placing the grafts easier and thus less damage occurs to the graft.

 

It was a strange sight seeing a patient with dozens of small nails sticking out of his head.

 

In my opinion this method is not as refined or artistic as a skilled surgeon working with an assistant making tiny close incisions that are imediatly filled with a graft - technique called "Sticking and placing".

 

He also did not use magafication during the graft disection process.

 

Ultimately I felt his end results, looking at his assistants hair and photos, were ok - no cobble stoning or pitting and good reported growth rates - but not as naturally distributed or refined as what I've come to expect from a top surgeon.

 

All the other clinics I intialy contacted also did not really impress me.

 

But if anyone has found a clinic in the Chicago area that does impress them please let me know.

 

Lets keep those doctor reviews coming. Pat

 

Thanks for reading this post. But it's your posts that make this discussion group real and vital. Please register - it's free and easy - and then jump into the discussion.

[Guest]

I was just browsing through and noticed a reply to a post I had made months ago about my results. Mario the expert claims that I work for the doctor who did the work. I am just an average guy who had a pleasant experience with Dr. True. Oh, yeah, and I am also the ONLY guy in all of NYC with the initials J.A. Mario, my friend you spend way too much time on this site.

[Guest]

In March of 1999 I had @600 grafts done by Dr. Wentland of the Elliott & True crew. First let me tell you that they are,or at least he is, behind the times. I am not bald but thinning. Dr. Wentland had no plan of attack for restoring my hair and they cannot place grafts close together with their current techniques. I would guess that some grafts are as far as 1/2 inch apart. How about that for density? Anyhow, he decided to pace all 600 grafts throughout my head. So now I have some 600 grafts, 1/2" apart thorughout my scalp. They make claims that after a single procedure, if you wish to stop, that the results will look natural. Transplanted hairs 1/2" apart throughout the scalp is NOT natural to me. I think it was a sure way of getting me back to his office with my checkbook. In addition, the dialators cause problems also. If they don't slice the grafts well enough or too well, the dialators impact the way the graft sets in the hole. The result is either a cobblestone or a dimple in the scalp. I have both. Take what I have said as my opinion based on MY experience but I'll never go back to another commercial group of surgeons again. My poor transplant experience is not showing thanks to Propecia but be wary you guys. Do more reasearch and when you've settled on a surgeon...do some more research.

[arfy]

I just looked at the E&T website. Elliot and True say they harvest their grafts with a multibladed scalpel. This transects a lot of follicles unnecessarily, resulting in poor growth.

 

They also use a mix of small and larger grafts (in the back) which does not give a natural result. Mini grafts are the same thing as plugs, just on a smaller scale, and should really be called "Mini-Plugs". But doctors like to use them, because big grafts are fast to dissect. That way the clinic can cram 2 or 3 other guys into the chair after they're done with you.

 

Bottom line, AVOID ELLIOT & TRUE!

[arfy]

J.A., who has posted in this thread about his so-called positive experience with Elliott & True, smells very fishy to me. Here's why.

 

J.A. claims "people don't believe me when I tell them I'm transplanted." NOBODY who has really had a hair transplant goes around asking people "Hey, I had a hair transplant, doesn't it look natural?" The reality is that actual patients are extremely concerned about being "spotted", and don't go around boasting about their procedure, ESPECIALLY if it looks good!

 

J.A. doesn't just say his results are good, he wants the Dr. True to be added to the list of the "Top Doctors". Why would a satisfied ex-patient be worried about his doctor appearing on a "recommended" list? He already HAS his great results, so why should he care so much...unless...

 

Then later J.A. says he just wants to tell us about his "pleasant" experience with Dr. True. I would never describe any type of surgery as being "pleasant"! For one thing, the anaesthic injections DO hurt, and the recovery time is anything but pleasant, when you have trouble sleeping, swelling around the eyes, etc.

 

Finally J.A. tells Mario (the guy who is criticizing him) that Mario spends "way too much time on this site." Sites like this are providing valuable information about good doctors to consider, and lousy doctors to avoid (like Elliot & True). Only someone who was afraid of the truth would criticize somebody for "spending too much time at this site". We are all here to learn from each other and share the information. Apparently Elliott & True find this idea threatening.

 

Elliott & True should spend some time updating their outdated procedures, and stop sending phony "clients" like J.A. here to try and promote themselves. If they were able to give their patients consistently good results, they wouldn't need to promote themselves this way.

[Guest]

I don't know anything about Elliot & True, but I would never go to a surgeon who harvests grafts with a multibladed scalpel.

[Guest]

These hair transplant forums never cease to amaze me. Who are these people who not only are consistently negative but hardly objective. How can you pass on judgement without actually visiting the practice and/or physician. I have had my hair restored and I had visited with Bernstein, Levitt, Seager, Dr. True, and a few others before moving forward. I can tell you that with todays technology, there are a handful of specialists that can do a great job. I chose Dr. True and made a great choice. I see JA is Dr. True's patient and is passing on his experience as positive yet he gets pounced on by a couple of guys that obviously haven't done their homework and quite frankly are making comments unworthy of any hair transplant forum. Pat it might do you good to be a little more selective about what makes for healthy discourse. As long as you have guys like Arfy and Mario, this forum will suffer.

[arfy]

To Webster

According to Dr. True's own website, he uses a multi-bladed scalpel to harvest donor hair. This causes a lot of unneccessary transection, resulting in poor growth.

 

According to Dr. True's own website, he uses minigrafts behind the hairline, which are not as natural looking as follicular units, they are pluggy looking.

 

This has nothing to do with "opinions", these are Dr. True's techniques, as he explains it. His techniques are outdated, plain and simple. Spend some time in the "Research Library" section of this website, read the articles there, and educate yourself. Dr. True is doing substandard work, compared to the techniques described in those articles.

[Mario]

SECOND BEST. AND DR. TRUE,ALTHOUGH A NICE GUY, IS

HARDLY EVEN SECOND BEST. ARFY'S CLAIMS ARE TRUE. I PERSONALLY HAD A CONSULT WITH DR. TRUE ABOUT 1 1/2 YEARS AGO. HE WAS CERTAINLY A NICE GUY, BUT NICE ISN'T GOOD ENOUGH. HE TOLD ME THAT ALL I WOULD NEED IS 400 GRAFTS 2-3X. WHAT PURE BULLSH*T! IT'S SO AMAZING HOW ALMOST ALL THE DR'S NOT PERFOMING FUT SEEMED TO SAY THE SAME THING.

 

I WILL, HOWEVER, TO RESPOND INTELLIGENTLY TO YOUR UNINFORMED COMMENTS AND CONTINUE TO ENTERTAIN YOUR MYOPIC, SHORT-SIGHTED RESPONSE. THE IDEA, IF YOU HAVEN'T DISCOVERED THAT REVELATION, IS TO ENLIGHTEN AND DIRECT THOSE PURSUING SURGERY TO THE BEST AND MOST QUALIFIED PHYSICIANS, NOT JUST TO THE DRUG STORE AROUND THE CORNER FOR A PACK OF SMOKES! WAKE-UP AND EXTEND YOUR FORESIGHT PAST THE TIP OF YOUR NOSE. IT IS OSTENSIBLE THAT THERE ARE THOSE INDIVIDUALS, MUCH LIKE YOU, WHO ASPIRE TO MEDIOCRITY AND ACCEPT THE SAME WHEN MAKING PERSONAL DECISIONS. IT'S GREAT THAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU STILL EXIST, OR ELSE THE TRUE'S, MHR'S, BOSLEY'S, BRANDY'S, AND HITZIG'S OF THE WORLD WOULD BE S/O/L. PEOPLE SHOULD STICK TO KOBREN'S

RECOMMENDED LIST.

 

ON A PERSONAL NOTE, I RECENTLY HAD A STATE-OFTHE-ART FUT SESSION (4A) OF 2,000+ GRAFTS FROM DR. RON SHAPIRO AND IT WAS A TREMENDOUS EXPERIENCE - WELL WORTH A 2.5 HR PLANE RIDE TO BLOOMINGTON, MINNESOTA. HE IS TRULY AN EXCELLENT PHYSICIAN AND OVERALL NICE GUY, WITH A GREAT STAFF TO BOOT. SHAPIRO IS EXCELLENT - FLAT OUT!

[Guest]

What does a Shapiro graft cost?

[Mario]

APPROXIMATELY $4.00/GRAFT - DEPENDING ON SIZE OF SESSION - GIVE HIS OFFICE A CALL AND SPEAK WITH MATT ZUPAN (800) 843-1989 FOR MORE DETAILS.

[perry]

I met Dr. True on a consult a week ago and he told me a) they use stereoscopic microscopes to dissect the follicles b) all FU transplants c) single bladed knife ONLY. He did not put any of this in writing (I didn't ask)but I'm starting to think I should have. Perhaps he has revised his techniques since guys like Arfy have surfed his site. If Dr. True is reading these sites I welcome him to put his claims in writing.

[Guest]

Perry,

 

What I told you about my technique is true. We do use microscopes to prepare follicular unit grafts from a donor ellipse which has been excised using a single blade scalpel. You or any prospective patient are welcome to observe our surgical facility and process. I am confident that you will find we are as sophisticated as any clinic in the world. In fact there are a few things that we may even do better than anyone else such as designing and executing elegant hairlines. Please see examples on this web site. During a visit to the surgery center it is also possible see additional treated patients in person.

 

Repectfully,

 

Dr. True