Decision time. Clinic and graft numbers help please.

[scafellfun]

Hi all

Following a good 4 months research I am close to making a decision on where to get my HT.

For me personally, and I don’t know if others have found this, the confusion around graft numbers is mind boggling. As is the decisions around how long to be on Fin before a HT. Is 4 months long enough to get enough strength in the native hair so it doesn’t get knackered when new hair is put next to it or should I wait 6 months or a year.

Finally the procedure itself. I have found little consensus about what is best to do in my situation. I think I am. Norwood 4 or 5? I would like a small lowering of the hairline that is age appropriate with filling in in the middle and crown. I don’t have a big head. Lateral humps seem good, crown has not receded too far down yet😁, but who knows. So all in all, I have been told I have a fairly narrow corridor of hair to fill after the front third. Not sure about cm2 area, but not large I think.

Please if you have a minute, take a look at the pics and give feedback on the following, especially if you have had a similar Norwood, about best way from 2 providers. Not really looking at others now

Dr Ted Miln One large fue WAW session 3500 grafts. He thinks this should be enough for a conservative hairline and fill in the gaps further back next to native hair. He uses a very small punch does incisions and extractions. His results look great and donor areas look great. But is 3500 going to enough to do this, thoughts please. Cost £7450

HDC Cyprus Dr Maras approved HRN doctor. They estimate I need 4500. The plan would be 3500 front and middle and 1000 crown over 2 days surgery, with a 7 night stay and after care during the week with technicians. Do I need this many, it’s a 1000 more than Dr Ted?
His work looks good, perhaps not as refined as Dr Teds. A bit concerned about the donor after 4500 and would all these actually get taken out and used. Anyone been there had this approach. 2 euros a graft with Accommodation etc.

I could look at another idea of perhaps 2500 to 3000 in one surgery and another in 6 months to a year for another for the crown? But more travel costs etc.

My goal is to get as much coverage done in one pass, but leave the donor intact for top ups

I am close to putting a deposit down with either for May this year, but need to decide reasonably quickly to secure a place 

Thanks guys.

Edited March 29 by scafellfun

[Silent123]

Hey man, try not to be too hung on up the grafts numbers. 3500 grafts could well be 7000 hairs with the right extraction. 4500 grafts could also be 7000 hairs depending on which hair types are extracted. Really depends on the skill of the extractor and what they’re aiming for. I’d definitely look into medication - you’d probably be surprised what could grow back after 6-12 months! 

[BackFromTheBrink]

Agree with the above. 

In terms of graft numbers I was NW5 and much more progressed than you and 3200 grafts made a significant difference in my first surgery.

Without any medical induced recovery of existing hairs, I'd have said you need in the region of 4k grafts but it does depend on your hair thickness and the average number of hairs per follicle. That would be 2000 for the front and 1000 each for midscalp and crown, give or take.

Whichever you choose, those grafts will be transplanted. 4500 isn't ridiculous but the 3500 surgery could use a bigger punch or have better survival rate and therefore yield the same result.

[Al - Moderator]

It could be that the difference in graft count estimates depends on where they are thinking of putting the hairline at.

 

[scafellfun]

Many thanks so far guys. I totally get that the skill of surgeon silent123, is paramount and yes, a good surgeon can sometimes get more with less. This is what I found with Dr Mani’s work in the UK. He creates awesome dense hairlines with 2300 grafts that could like 3500. I am happy to stay on meds albeit a low dose of 0.3 mg fin a day, moved over to oral minoxidil 2.5, which also helped my blood pressure. I am trying Biotin tabs and Saw palmetto, plus Nizoral shampoo. Was just worried that you had to be on these about a year before contemplating a HT, both Surgeons say no.

Thanks backfromthebrink, regarding graft number advice and meds contribution. being Anal over this I have kept a monthly picture from the top to see if any difference has occurred in density following meds. I might be optimistic but I can see less light on my head, even after a few months. My hair is thin and dark blonde, so I guess I might need more hairs to achieve density. Guess you don’t end up knowing what you have got to play with until you are sat in the chair. About punches is the Fue WAW method any better. The donor scars look very small. But can a very small extraction tool 0.6 damage grafts.

Lastly AI moderator both providers were looking at conservative hairlines, which were similar. Dr Ted did not give specifics on placements and numbers, were strangely all others have, including sending me lines drawn on my photos, with zones 1,2 and 3 marked out. HDC looked at 3500 in 1 and 2 with 1000 in 3.
 

others I was quoted was Gur 3500 but not full crown coverage

Turan 4000 but as above not full crown coverage

Bicer 3500 to 4000 full coverage possible

HLC 3500 front only

most UK surgeons front only very conservative 2200 to 2700, strict on front only and back in a year for the crown. Dr Ted is quite unique in this respect doing a 3500 mega session in one day.

 

Edited March 29 by scafellfun

[Berba11]

The difference between 3500 grafts and 4500 isn’t as big as it sounds in all reality. 
 

Personally I’d opt for the 3,500 approach and assess from there. It’s the less risky option overall and will get you pretty close to where you want to be. And whilst I don’t advocate picking a clinic for convenience’s sake, it can’t be denied that staying in the UK is quite useful!

[Hairwolf]

4 hours ago, Berba11 said:

The difference between 3500 grafts and 4500 isn’t as big as it sounds in all reality. 
 

Personally I’d opt for the 3,500 approach and assess from there. It’s the less risky option overall and will get you pretty close to where you want to be. And whilst I don’t advocate picking a clinic for convenience’s sake, it can’t be denied that staying in the UK is quite useful!

I agree that I would go for the 3500 range here, as OP’s hair loss is mainly frontal and would make a big cosmetic improvement. Would wait until at least 10 months to a year on meds before surgery.
 

Where I disagree is that 1000 grafts isn’t  much. Could be the difference between another scalp procedure without needing beard hair.

Edited March 30 by Hairwolf

[scafellfun]

Thanks Hairwolf.

I have decided on Dr Ted Miln with. 3500 session. This will leave grafts for future work if need be in case the sides or crown drops further, or for more density in the hairline. I have had 2 video calls with him. He and his team are dedicated and ethical. He comes across as passionate about his work and super caring of patients. He also looks at the bigger picture of medication, and Donor management. I am impressed with his natural hairlines using irregular singles from close up pictures and videos.

Plan is late May 2024, will have been on fin and oral minoxidil for 5 months by then, will keep you updated 

Thanks again guys

[Duke1984]

That’s great you’ve decided to go with Ted Miln. I am waiting a video consultation with him. Are you getting the procedure in his own practice or in London?  What is he charging per graft ? Wish you all the best with your surgery 

[HairFunk]

3 hours ago, scafellfun said:

Thanks Hairwolf.

I have decided on Dr Ted Miln with. 3500 session. This will leave grafts for future work if need be in case the sides or crown drops further, or for more density in the hairline. I have had 2 video calls with him. He and his team are dedicated and ethical. He comes across as passionate about his work and super caring of patients. He also looks at the bigger picture of medication, and Donor management. I am impressed with his natural hairlines using irregular singles from close up pictures and videos.

Plan is late May 2024, will have been on fin and oral minoxidil for 5 months by then, will keep you updated 

Thanks again guys

3500 grafts and a conservative hairline would be a good option plus using preventatives. Are you looking to document your hair transplant here?

[scafellfun]

Hi Duke 1984. Thanks man. Yea looking at his own practice, as not keen on London. It's a set price of £7450 for 3500 G.

Hair funk, I hope to keep folks updated on here. 

Thanks so far for all the advice and encouragement. I thought I was too old for this adventure, but sod it  I am going to go for it.

[scafellfun]

Hi

I have spoken to Dr Ted a couple of times since my last post. A bit unsure if the mega session of 3500 across all areas would be sufficient to cover front top and crown. 
My working out would be about 2800 to 3000 for a solid frontal third at 50 g per cm2 covering around 65 to 70 cm2 area. This would leave only 500 to 700 for the top and crown which is quite thin see pic. Another suggestion he made was a 2 day combined fue and fut procedure yielding much higher numbers ie 4500 or 5000 for greater coverage including temporal points. All areas would have dense coverage. But at a cost of £11950, versus the £7450 for the one day 3500 grafts. Having said that it might end up being more than that if I had 2 procedures over 2 different days?

Thoughts please