Best way to Stabilize Hair Shed // Cannot use Finasteride/Dutasteride

[wol63]

I'm a diffuse thinner and unfortunately can't use finasteride/dutasteride due to bad sides. Currently only using topical minoxidil and micro-needling (plus ketoconazole shampoo).

My hair sheds a ton - I'm hoping to stop the shed and get to a point of stability to make me a better transplant candidate.

Looking for feedback from users who have tried PRP, LLLT (laser), or anything else other than Fit/Dut/anti-androgens that have had success slowing/reducing hair shedding.

I know LLLT and PRP aren't miracle cures and won't cause regrowth, but I'm wondering if anyone has been able to slow/stop their shed using either of them? 

[12345]

[SuperHans]

Saw palmetto, nettle tea, green tea, biotin, prayers 🙏

I'd missed the 'Fit/Dut/anti-androgens' part sorry. You're left with prayers I think... Maybe add some marine collagen to the biotin, rosemary oil? I think without dut/fin etc you're running out of options...

 

Edited March 9 by SuperHans

[wol63]

thanks @SuperHans, have you tried LLLT?  How about you @12345? 

[SuperHans]

2 minutes ago, wol63 said:

thanks @SuperHans, have you tried LLLT?  How about you @12345? 

I've not but I've had PRP and that didn't do much, neither positive nor negative. 

[Al - Moderator]

You could try oral minoxidil. It should give you better results than the topical.

 

[wol63]

thanks @Al - formerly BeHappy

 

A little apprehensive off oral minox because of unknown long term impact to heart. Also not sure it's much more effective? 

[Dragonsphere]

When you can you say you can't take Propecia/Dutasteride I assume you mean orally? 

Why not take the medication topically which should greatly reduce the chance of any side effects. 

LLT does work, but the effectiveness of the treatment is minimal. 

A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials of United States Food and Drug Administration-Approved, Home-use, Low-Level Light/Laser Therapy Devices for Pattern Hair Loss: Device Design and Technology - PMC (nih.gov). 

You could also look at Ell Cranell Alpha a topical anti androgen. It is moderately effective as shown in studies. 

To be completely honest however, unless you are prepared to take a 5a reductase inhibitors in some capacity you will only be delaying the inevitable. 

 

 

Edited March 10 by Dragonsphere

[12345]

49 minutes ago, Dragonsphere said:

When you can you say you can't take Propecia/Dutasteride I assume you mean orally? 

Why not take it the medication topically which should greatly reduce the chance of any side effects. 

LLT does work, but the effectiveness of the treatment is minimal. 

A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials of United States Food and Drug Administration-Approved, Home-use, Low-Level Light/Laser Therapy Devices for Pattern Hair Loss: Device Design and Technology - PMC (nih.gov). 

You could also look at Ell Cranell Alpha a topical anti androgen. It is moderately effective as shown is studies. 

To completely honest however, unless you are prepared to take a 5a reductase inhibitors in some capacity you will only be delaying the inevitable. 

 

 

if hes getting sides with the oral version he most likely will get sides on topical, so its kind of redundant. 

i think we need to get rid of this thinking that keeps getting passed around that topicals are the next option, and have less systemic absorption/side effects than the pils. both will drop DHT, which will be at different levels in different individuals, but they are not fool proof. even smal drops in dht and illicit the side effects.

topicals are really just another options for those who dont have sides/tolerate fin and dut.

[Dragonsphere]

Efficacy and safety of topical finasteride spray solution for male androgenetic alopecia: a phase III, randomized, controlled clinical trial - PubMed (nih.gov)

While scalp/ follicular DHT levels are probably the same for ether method, serum DHT was markedly reduced more when the drug was taken orally. 

Follicular DHT levels will have little influence in respect to libido issues and erectile disfunction. 

We should absolutely consider topicals in individuals who get systemic side effects from the oral equivalent. 

Edited March 10 by Dragonsphere

[wol63]

@Dragonsphere man I was hopeful for topicals but the sides were strong on the topicals too.

Thanks for the study on LLLT and the recommendation for El Cranell Alpha 

[12345]

42 minutes ago, wol63 said:

@Dragonsphere man I was hopeful for topicals but the sides were strong on the topicals too.

Thanks for the study on LLLT and the recommendation for El Cranell Alpha 

some people want to to push the topical fin/dut agenda so bad. 

next thing hes gonna say the sides were nocebo and all in your head 🤣

[Al - Moderator]

11 hours ago, wol63 said:

A little apprehensive off oral minox because of unknown long term impact to heart.

 

Yeah I won't take it either for the same reasons. I had heart palpitations when I tried it long ago and got off it right away. However some people seem to have no bad effects, at least not noticeable to them.

 

[Al - Moderator]

10 hours ago, 12345 said:

if hes getting sides with the oral version he most likely will get sides on topical, so its kind of redundant. 

i think we need to get rid of this thinking that keeps getting passed around that topicals are the next option, and have less systemic absorption/side effects than the pils. both will drop DHT, which will be at different levels in different individuals, but they are not fool proof. even smal drops in dht and illicit the side effects.

topicals are really just another options for those who dont have sides/tolerate fin and dut.

 

There's nothing wrong with trying to change dosage or change how you take it (oral vs topical). It does make a difference in some people, so for someone who is trying to find something that works, it may be worth trying to make some changes using the same drug before giving up on it. Everyone has to decide for themselves. We are just telling the OP what possible options there are.

[ScottishGuy21]

12 hours ago, 12345 said:

if hes getting sides with the oral version he most likely will get sides on topical, so its kind of redundant. 

i think we need to get rid of this thinking that keeps getting passed around that topicals are the next option, and have less systemic absorption/side effects than the pils. both will drop DHT, which will be at different levels in different individuals, but they are not fool proof. even smal drops in dht and illicit the side effects.

topicals are really just another options for those who dont have sides/tolerate fin and dut.

Not true. I had terrible sides with Oral Minox but I’m fine with Topical. If done correctly the chances of topical going systemic are far less.

Edited March 10 by ScottishGuy21

[wol63]

@ScottishGuy21 do you do topical Fin/Dut also? If so, do you have a special method of applying it to mitigate risk of systemic exposure? 

[12345]

5 hours ago, ScottishGuy21 said:

Not true. I had terrible sides with Oral Minox but I’m fine with Topical. If done correctly the chances of topical going systemic are far less.

We are not even talking about minoxidil! we are talking about anti-androgens! the grand majority of users have no problems with minoxidil, its the anti-androgens where the problem arises. 

[ScottishGuy21]

3 hours ago, wol63 said:

@ScottishGuy21 do you do topical Fin/Dut also? If so, do you have a special method of applying it to mitigate risk of systemic exposure? 

No, I’m ok with oral fin so just topical minox for me. No special measure other than washing hands thoroughly after application.

[12345]

3 hours ago, wol63 said:

@ScottishGuy21 do you do topical Fin/Dut also? If so, do you have a special method of applying it to mitigate risk of systemic exposure? 

 

7 hours ago, Al - formerly BeHappy said:

 

There's nothing wrong with trying to change dosage or change how you take it (oral vs topical). It does make a difference in some people, so for someone who is trying to find something that works, it may be worth trying to make some changes using the same drug before giving up on it. Everyone has to decide for themselves. We are just telling the OP what possible options there are.

i think the only ppl who will benefit from topical anti-androgens are those who had no side effects with the oral versions.

I have rarely heard of anyone going from taking an oral med where it gave them sides, and then switched to that same topical and they were side effect free. 

The only forum member @Gatsby who had success with the switch and who i truly believe his experience(as hes not pushing an agenda or sponsored by a hair loss company) eventually had sides in the long run. I have not heard from anyone else, and when i see that they are either paid or sponsored by a seller i take that info with a grain of salt.

You can keep playing around with dosages and different applications, but more than likely they will experience the same sides, just a delay in the sides. 

I am just setting peoples expectations because there is this  false belief that these topicals are not going systemic hence the great push of topicals  anti-androgens in the market.

[ScottishGuy21]

9 minutes ago, 12345 said:

We are not even talking about minoxidil! we are talking about anti-androgens! the grand majority of users have no problems with minoxidil, its the anti-androgens where the problem arises. 

It’s worth a try. All I was saying is that Its scientific fact topical applications have less chance of going systemic.

From experience I can assure you the reaction to Minoxidil the body can have is very serious.

[12345]

3 minutes ago, ScottishGuy21 said:

It’s worth a try. All I was saying is that Its scientific fact topical applications have less chance of going systemic.

From experience I can assure you the reaction to Minoxidil the body can have is very serious.

yes as someone who takes oral minox, i am aware of  the side effects it can have. But unlike Finasteride, the grand majority of people do not have side effects from it, and as you pointed out, there is always the topical option which was the industry standard until oral minox became the new wave sensation in the last 3 years. 

oral or topical it all goes systemic. orals probably will reduce DHT more than a topical, but with some of these topicals, you may even end up with a higher dose of the drug because you are trying to cover such a large area of the scalp.

its all about how the body will react to drops in dht, and you dont need a large drop to feel the side effects.

this whole topicals decrease systemic absorption or have no systemic absorption is exactly that these online pharmacies and hair loss companies want use to believe to make the sales. you are just helping to spread this false rhetoric. 

[Gatsby]

Yes I was really hoping that topical Finasteride would not cause sexual side effects. My dermatologist is a good one (Dr Bevin Bhoyrul) and he stated that only one of his patients developed side effects. Within three months on 0.25% my libido disappeared again. I’m fine on 5mg of oral minoxidil a day (and luckily do benefit from this one). But being on minoxidil is not the same as a 5ari. At least it’s better than nothing. 

[Dragonsphere]

2 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Yes I was really hoping that topical Finasteride would not cause sexual side effects. My dermatologist is a good one (Dr Bevin Bhoyrul) and he stated that only one of his patients developed side effects. Within three months on 0.25% my libido disappeared again. I’m fine on 5mg of oral minoxidil a day (and luckily do benefit from this one). But being on minoxidil is not the same as a 5ari. At least it’s better than nothing. 

Have you considered El Cranell Alpha? As mentioned previously, it is topical anti androgen with confirmed efficiency and  a proven safety record. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412238/

It essentially speeds up the process of the conversion of testosterone to estradiol via aromatise which, of course, reduces DHT. It does not go systemic so the side effects are limited to irritation. 

You can buy it from Amazon.de or Ebay. 

There is more to hair loss than just DHT, I know this from my own experience and from consulting with leading dermatologists, yet some form of dht reduction is vital in any hair loss prevention regime. 

Edited March 10 by Dragonsphere

[12345]

2 hours ago, Dragonsphere said:

Have you considered El Cranell Alpha? As mentioned previously, it is topical anti androgen with confirmed efficiency and  a proven safety record. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412238/

It essentially speeds up the process of the conversion of testosterone to estradiol via aromatise which, of course, reduces DHT. It does not go systemic so the side effects are limited to irritation. 

You can buy it from Amazon.de or Ebay. 

There is more to hair loss than just DHT, I know this from my own experience and from consulting with leading dermatologists, yet some form of dht reduction is vital in any hair loss prevention regime. 

thats just a brand name of Alfatradiol

It will also gives sexual side effects as well. if you are sensitive to anti-androgens, its probably not the best choice. 

 

[Gatsby]

I think Xyon would be the best option from results seen by 5ari sensitive people like Melvin, etc. It’s a pity it’s not available in Australia.