Best way to Stabilize Hair Shed // Cannot use Finasteride/Dutasteride

[wol63]

@Gatsby the Xyon options appear to be only finasteride, dutasteride, minoxidil - all offered in pill or topical form. Do you see something else?

[Dragonsphere]

20 hours ago, 12345 said:

thats just a brand name of Alfatradiol

It will also gives sexual side effects as well. if you are sensitive to anti-androgens, its probably not the best choice. 

 

It does not go systemic. That is the whole reason as to why men can take it. 

If it went systemic you would have gyno, osteoporosis, muscle wastage, ejaculatory issues. 

It is an off prescription topical commonly available.  

Unlike finasteride where the side effects are real (most of the time) the worst you will get Alfatradiol is scalp irritation. 

Anyhow, it is not an extremely effective product. 

[12345]

7 hours ago, Dragonsphere said:

It does not go systemic. That is the whole reason as to why men can take it. 

If it went systemic you would have gyno, osteoporosis, muscle wastage, ejaculatory issues. 

It is an off prescription topical commonly available.  

Unlike finasteride where the side effects are real (most of the time) the worst you will get Alfatradiol is scalp irritation. 

Anyhow, it is not an extremely effective product. 

I disagree. it does go systemic. used it myself and it was the only antiandrogen drug i was on, having not used  them (fin) in 8 years. It gave me the ED i described, which wen away after use.

how it doesn't require a prescription like fin/dut, that I dont know, buts its also a european product. you only get it on ebay or from sites that ship from foreign country. maybe theres a loophole in the EU.

i think just like every anti-androgen, each individual will react differently to drops in dht

[Dragonsphere]

On 3/12/2024 at 2:17 AM, 12345 said:

I disagree. it does go systemic. used it myself and it was the only antiandrogen drug i was on, having not used  them (fin) in 8 years. It gave me the ED i described, which wen away after use.

how it doesn't require a prescription like fin/dut, that I dont know, buts its also a european product. you only get it on ebay or from sites that ship from foreign country. maybe theres a loophole in the EU.

i think just like every anti-androgen, each individual will react differently to drops in dht

I don't discount anecdotal experience but if you had sexual sides effects then they were placebo. 

If you don't believe me, apply it topically again and if you experience sides take a blood test. 

 If I am wrong be happy, as you will be able to sue the manufacturer for a tidy sum. 

 

[12345]

On 3/15/2024 at 5:16 PM, Dragonsphere said:

I don't discount anecdotal experience but if you had sexual sides effects then they were placebo. 

If you don't believe me, apply it topically again and if you experience sides take a blood test. 

 If I am wrong be happy, as you will be able to sue the manufacturer for a tidy sum. 

 

Why does everyone want to blame sexual side effects on anti-androgenic drugs that literally block DHT receptors, or decrease DHT levels as mere placebo.

Yes DHT plays a large role in hair loss, but it is is also responsible for erections, orgasm,  cognition, strength etc. 

It is a double edge sword when it comes to dht, it literally does great things for a mans body with the exception of hair loss.

But i do not think its fair to the hair loss community to count these side effects as placebo, and is a great disservice.

I have side effects on fin, other men dont. I have side effects on Pantosin, other men dont.We are individual on how our own bodys respond to drops in dht levels. But dont discount any side effects we have from these drugs as "its all in our head"

We are adults, not young children, that cannot explain their bodies.

 

If you are a man with a healthy libido, erections, orgasm, and then you take a drug known to affect hormone levels and cause effects, and you begin to experience those effects, its not your mind its drug plain and simple.

 

by spreading this whole "its all in your head" "nocebo" rhetoric, you just mislead the hair loss community, give ppl false hope, and diminish what those with side effects are experiencing.

 

 

[Dragonsphere]

3 hours ago, 12345 said:

Why does everyone want to blame sexual side effects on anti-androgenic drugs that literally block DHT receptors, or decrease DHT levels as mere placebo.

Yes DHT plays a large role in hair loss, but it is is also responsible for erections, orgasm,  cognition, strength etc. 

It is a double edge sword when it comes to dht, it literally does great things for a mans body with the exception of hair loss.

But i do not think its fair to the hair loss community to count these side effects as placebo, and is a great disservice.

I have side effects on fin, other men dont. I have side effects on Pantosin, other men dont.We are individual on how our own bodys respond to drops in dht levels. But dont discount any side effects we have from these drugs as "its all in our head"

We are adults, not young children, that cannot explain their bodies.

 

If you are a man with a healthy libido, erections, orgasm, and then you take a drug known to affect hormone levels and cause effects, and you begin to experience those effects, its not your mind its drug plain and simple.

 

by spreading this whole "its all in your head" "nocebo" rhetoric, you just mislead the hair loss community, give ppl false hope, and diminish what those with side effects are experiencing.

 

 

Please read my response again. 

I was referring to the sexual sides regarding Ell Cranell. 

Side effects from Propecia are real, although looking at controlled trials they are likely nocebo more than half the time. 

 

[4chanhrn]

On 3/10/2024 at 3:51 PM, Dragonsphere said:

Have you considered El Cranell Alpha? As mentioned previously, it is topical anti androgen with confirmed efficiency and  a proven safety record. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3412238/

It essentially speeds up the process of the conversion of testosterone to estradiol via aromatise which, of course, reduces DHT. It does not go systemic so the side effects are limited to irritation. 

You can buy it from Amazon.de or Ebay. 

There is more to hair loss than just DHT, I know this from my own experience and from consulting with leading dermatologists, yet some form of dht reduction is vital in any hair loss prevention regime. 

Alfatradiol seems to be a decent option and seems like lot of people can tolerate it.

However it gave me the most intense dreams ever and restless sleep even on 1.5-2ml/day. Was forced to discontinue after 4 days of use. No sexual sides whatsoever. If anything, my libido was high. I'm very sensitive to fin and get sexual sides.

Currently on oral min 1.25mg 2x/day, LLLT 3x/week, shampoo with saw palmetto and ketocanazole everyday, microneedling and zero mino every night 1ml. Planning to add oral saw palmetto 2-3x/day.

Slowly losing ground, guess I'll do a transplant at some point. 

Edited March 19 by 4chanhue

[4chanhrn]

On 3/11/2024 at 2:59 PM, Dragonsphere said:

It does not go systemic. That is the whole reason as to why men can take it. 

If it went systemic you would have gyno, osteoporosis, muscle wastage, ejaculatory issues. 

It is an off prescription topical commonly available.  

Unlike finasteride where the side effects are real (most of the time) the worst you will get Alfatradiol is scalp irritation. 

Anyhow, it is not an extremely effective product. 

Anything you apply on your scalp does go systemic. How much and how the body reacts to it depends on every individual. 17 alpha estradiol is a non feminizing, very weak estrogen. It does need to go systemic to some extent for it to work. From my understanding, large reason it works is because your body downregulates DHT, test with exogenous use. Bryan Johnson from Blueprint applies it transdermal because it's good for anti-aging.

[Dragonsphere]

On 3/19/2024 at 12:22 PM, 4chanhue said:

Anything you apply on your scalp does go systemic. How much and how the body reacts to it depends on every individual. 17 alpha estradiol is a non feminizing, very weak estrogen. It does need to go systemic to some extent for it to work. From my understanding, large reason it works is because your body downregulates DHT, test with exogenous use. Bryan Johnson from Blueprint applies it transdermal because it's good for anti-aging.

I think we are splitting hairs here. 

It works by converting DHT and T a by product of estrogen. 

Anyway, it is not the most effective treatment so it is not a hill I am prepared to die on.