Options if you can't take fin?

[jr1986]

I attempted to get on a low dose of fin back in August but encountered side effects. The worst was brain fog, a feeling that you had to force yourself to concentrate, lack of energy and just feeling out of it. I gave up after a month.

I had read numerous threads and reddit stories about people making their own topical fin by crushing and dissolving tablet in an alcohol/propolyne glycol/ distilled water solution and claiming results. So I did just this. I have been increasing the strength since I started and have had no side effects what so ever. I can apply 10 times more finasteride in a week than I was taking orally and feel nothing. I honestly don't think this method works.

But for those saying my sides on oral were nocebo I'd just say that that did not happen via topical even though I was expecting sides.

A second attempt at oral fin in the last week and its the same as the first, feeling out of it completely.

At 37 i have frontal thinning, especially in the left. The zone marked red has lost 50% density from baseline. The area itches and burns occasionally, this was greatly diminished with  oral fin but not diy topical. Which is one of the reasons I've come to think it doesn't work.

Now thinking about minoxidil, saw palmetto and nizoral but is that really enough?

Other options are a transplant without fin in my 40s, as I think I'm going to nw4 in the next few years and maybe even higher.

Couple of pics. Any suggestions welcome 😊

Edited November 3, 2022 by jr1986

[GoliGoliGoli]

As far as the itching/burning goes, I will say that although I've never experienced "burning", Nizoral does a great job of getting rid of any itching. I sometimes get itchy on my crown area where most of my loss is concentrated, but the Nizoral seems to take care of that. I use it about twice per week. 

As far as the utility of topical fin, it seems that fin is absorbed pretty well. Some studies show that topical reduces serum DHT about as much as oral so if you aren't getting sides from topical I wouldn't necesarilyl asume that means it isn't working either

[Curious25]

Your loss isn’t that bad relative to your age. Crown seems solid enough, and you have a diffused pattern of loss across your hairline and frontal third - a hair loss type which usually responds very well to meds. 
 

I would recommend; 

- Discussing oral minoxidil 5mg daily with a reputable doctor. 
 

- Using 2% Nizoral twice weekly 

 

- Sourcing a compounded topical finasteride from a reputable pharmacy, ideally associated with a reputable hair transplant surgeon. 
 

Other options,

you could try a low dose of oral propecia such as 0.25mg on a 1 on 2 off schedule, and gradually build from there, given you feel ok. 
 

source a surgeon to perform 3 monthly dutasteride mesotherapy. 
 

Add in microneedling 1.5mm every 10 days. 
 

Good Luck. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by Curious25

[jr1986]

2 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

As far as the itching/burning goes, I will say that although I've never experienced "burning", Nizoral does a great job of getting rid of any itching. I sometimes get itchy on my crown area where most of my loss is concentrated, but the Nizoral seems to take care of that. I use it about twice per week. 

As far as the utility of topical fin, it seems that fin is absorbed pretty well. Some studies show that topical reduces serum DHT about as much as oral so if you aren't getting sides from topical I wouldn't necesarilyl asume that means it isn't working either

Thanks. Do you think nizoral getting rid of the itch means it's helping or is it just soothing the symptoms as it were?

As for my diy topical, I'm waiting for a mortar and pestle to come to crush the pills into a very fine powder as I've noticed there's a lot of bigger bits not fully dissolving. We will see if this makes any difference 

Edited November 3, 2022 by jr1986

[jr1986]

2 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Your loss isn’t that bad relative to your age. Crown seems solid enough, and you have a diffused pattern of loss across your hairline and frontal third - a hair loss type which usually responds very well to meds. 
 

I would recommend; 

- Discussing oral minoxidil 5mg daily with a reputable doctor. 
 

- Using 2% Nizoral twice weekly 

 

- Sourcing a compounded topical finasteride from a reputable pharmacy, ideally associated with a reputable hair transplant surgeon. 
 

Other options,

you could try a low dose of oral propecia such as 0.25mg on a 1 on 2 off schedule, and gradually build from there, given you feel ok. 
 

source a surgeon to perform 3 monthly dutasteride mesotherapy. 
 

Add in microneedling 1.5mm every 10 days. 
 

Good Luck. 

Thanks for the reply and suggestions. I was already trying a small dose of fin every second day, and it's giving me sides which is quite surprising. The brain fog isn't very nice, and from what I have read even a tiny dose can cause it. If I thought it would go away I would power through a bit longer. But from other things I've read it probably won't go away and it's best to stop

Edited November 3, 2022 by jr1986

[GoliGoliGoli]

12 minutes ago, jr1986 said:

Thanks. Do you think nizoral getting rid of the itch means it's helping or is it just soothing the symptoms as it were?

As for my diy topical, I'm waiting for a mortar and pestle to come to crush the pills into a very fine powder as I've noticed there's a lot of bigger bits not fully dissolving. We will see if this makes any difference 

I think it helps to reduce scalp inflammation and possibly lower DHT in the scalp if you leave it on long enough. Plus I just like how thick my hair looks after using it but that might be different for everyone. TBH I haven't spent much time looking into its efficacy, but I suspect it does help and isn't just soothing the symtpom. 

[BurnieBurns]

What sticks out to me is when you said you didn't think topical finasteride was working?

There's little reason to believe it wouldn't. Can you give specifics?

[jr1986]

5 hours ago, BurnieBurns said:

What sticks out to me is when you said you didn't think topical finasteride was working?

There's little reason to believe it wouldn't. Can you give specifics?

Well I'm making my own by crushing pills. Current recipe is 5ml ethanol, 5ml propolyne glycol, and 2 ml distilled water. I then crush 3 1mg finasteride and add to the 12ml solution and shake well and leave fir a while. I am applying 2ml per night which is 0.5mg of finasteride each time.

What makes me doubt its doing anything is complete lack of any sides and my scalp is itchy where I'm thinning.

When I use oral my scalp settled pretty quickly and I was only microdosing using 1/6th of a pill every second day. Its a tiny dose but enough to calm the scalp. It was also enough to cause brain fog and get rid of morning wood. 

Maybe my topical is working (I'm still using) it's only been about 7 weeks

[BurnieBurns]

5 minutes ago, jr1986 said:

Well I'm making my own by crushing pills. Current recipe is 5ml ethanol, 5ml propolyne glycol, and 2 ml distilled water. I then crush 3 1mg finasteride and add to the 12ml solution and shake well and leave fir a while. I am applying 2ml per night which is 0.5mg of finasteride each time.

What makes me doubt its doing anything is complete lack of any sides and my scalp is itchy where I'm thinning.

When I use oral my scalp settled pretty quickly and I was only microdosing using 1/6th of a pill every second day. Its a tiny dose but enough to calm the scalp. It was also enough to cause brain fog and get rid of morning wood. 

Maybe my topical is working (I'm still using) it's only been about 7 weeks

Interesting. There's something to be said for propylene glycol irritating the scalp rather that DHT. Either way, it really sounds worth trying  a topical finasteride rcompounded properly rather than jumping into 'alternatives'.

You also need to give it a proper 6 months. If after then you haven't lost more hair, that is an absolute win.

The vast majority of issues with topical finasteride is that it still causing systemic issues rather than effectiveness. For some however, topical very much does reduce systemic absorption enough for people to avoid side effects

[mr_peanutbutter]

stick to topical

[jr1986]

11 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

stick to topical

Homemade or should I try sourcing a proper version? I'm in the UK I'm not sure where to get it. Thanks

[StillAlive]

Nizoral 2% and 320mg of Saw Palmetto daily (ideally mixed in with some other hair boosting multivit) and see where it gets you. Minimal maintenance, your hair is quite good for 37, if this regimen stabilizes you, you may need a single HT to get a juvenile hairline. 

(If my hair looked like yours at 37, I'd never even consider an HT. You don't look like a dude with hair loss at all.)

[jr1986]

2 hours ago, StillAlive said:

Nizoral 2% and 320mg of Saw Palmetto daily (ideally mixed in with some other hair boosting multivit) and see where it gets you. Minimal maintenance, your hair is quite good for 37, if this regimen stabilizes you, you may need a single HT to get a juvenile hairline. 

(If my hair looked like yours at 37, I'd never even consider an HT. You don't look like a dude with hair loss at all.)

Thanks very much, I'm willing to give saw palmetto a go. Is it possible to use it while also applying finasteride topically? 

[StillAlive]

Not sure about that. In general, it's recommended to NOT take SP & Finasteride together. One difference they do have though, is that oral fin, reduces DHT serum in the blood, something which SP does not. SP rather, causes less DHT to bind with the 5ar enzyme that in turn, causes our hair loss. If topical fin does the same thing, it may be overkill or they may interact in some type of negative way. I'd pick one and stick to it, not combine them. 

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

@jr1986,

If you are experiencing side effects with oral finasteride then I agree that using some form of topical finasteride is probably your best bet in conjunction with topical minoxidil.  You can also try using supposed herbal DHT blockers such as saw palmetto but to be honest, I personally don’t have a lot of faith in its efficacy.  But if you combine it with topical minoxidil and possibly a Ketoconazole shampoo such as Nizoral or Revita, that’ll help you at least somewhat. But your expectations of any nonsurgical treatment need to be realistic as they are typically better at slowing down or stopping the progression of genetic male pattern baldness than regrowing hair.

I hope this helps.

Rahal Hair Transplant 

[DeadPoets]

5 hours ago, StillAlive said:

Nizoral 2% and 320mg of Saw Palmetto daily (ideally mixed in with some other hair boosting multivit) and see where it gets you. Minimal maintenance, your hair is quite good for 37, if this regimen stabilizes you, you may need a single HT to get a juvenile hairline. 

(If my hair looked like yours at 37, I'd never even consider an HT. You don't look like a dude with hair loss at all.)

Agree with this. Sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing.

 

[A Fue Good Men]

Maybe a compounded topical finasteride would be best. When you try making your own it might create issues as there’s fillers and other things present in crushed pills.