Failed follicles and survival rates

[Coverdale]

How obvious are follicles that have failed? I know the signs, but I’m wondering if you’ll always notice or not. Since my HT, I haven’t had any abnormal bleeding or pain in my recipient area, so I’m wondering if any have failed. Cosmedica reports only 60-70% of FUE HT transplanted hairs survive, yet most other places report 85-95% survival ratings. Which is it? 

[LaserCaps]

A couple of things about this.  First, the initial consultation.  This is the time the doctor confirms your candidacy, examines the donor, checks for any skin conditions, etc.  Once he approves you, this implies you are a candidate in every respect.  If there were any inklings regarding the donor, he would likely point this out and show you the "best" part of the donor he would intend to use during the intervention. God forbid you move forward with a doctor with zero experience.  You are experiencing global thinning and you move forward with the procedure.  If you are thinning in the donor, you would thin out the grafts as well.  

Once the transplant takes place, it is likely the grafts will be placed uniformly throughout.  A year later if you see an empty spot within the area he worked, then you know something must have caused it.  This can easily be seen under magnification.  

 

[Coverdale]

39 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

A couple of things about this.  First, the initial consultation.  This is the time the doctor confirms your candidacy, examines the donor, checks for any skin conditions, etc.  Once he approves you, this implies you are a candidate in every respect.  If there were any inklings regarding the donor, he would likely point this out and show you the "best" part of the donor he would intend to use during the intervention. God forbid you move forward with a doctor with zero experience.  You are experiencing global thinning and you move forward with the procedure.  If you are thinning in the donor, you would thin out the grafts as well.  

Once the transplant takes place, it is likely the grafts will be placed uniformly throughout.  A year later if you see an empty spot within the area he worked, then you know something must have caused it.  This can easily be seen under magnification.  

 

Lol.. thank you for your informative post. I do appreciate your post, but I’m very confused by it. It doesn’t address or answer any of the questions I asked lol. 

[LaserCaps]

15 minutes ago, Coverdale said:

Lol.. thank you for your informative post. I do appreciate your post, but I’m very confused by it. It doesn’t address or answer any of the questions I asked lol. 

Apparently you missed my intent altogether. You stated you know the signs.  I felt the need to start with the basics You then started talking about not experiencing abnormal bleeding etc...which honestly has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The only way to tell, after the fact, if grafts took or did not take is to confirm uniformity of the grafts in the planned area.  I covered this on the last paragraph.  

[Coverdale]

1 minute ago, LaserCaps said:

Apparently you missed my intent altogether. You stated you know the signs.  I felt the need to start with the basics You then started talking about not experiencing abnormal bleeding etc...which honestly has nothing to do with the topic at hand.  The only way to tell, after the fact, if grafts took or did not take is to confirm uniformity of the grafts in the planned area.  I covered this on the last paragraph.  

Everywhere I’ve read and the videos I’ve seen, even where the Admin of the forum has posted a YouTube video detailing it, signs of failed or lost grafts can include bleeding or pain. You’re saying that’s not the case? I wasn’t and am not asking about whether the transplant itself is successful, I’m asking about whether or not you can tell when a graft has failed. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on that. 

[Britanium]

In the earliest stages (up to 10 days) its most definitely possible to see blood loss after losing grafts. This is usually very noticeable as its more like a steam/long trickle of blood. This only happens really of they become dislodged through trauma, over eager washing or bumping the head. 
After the point the grafts be secure and then its a case of waiting and seeing what growth occurs. I do believe that the decent clinics will achieve very good and higher growth. Some of the hair mills and low cost/chain clinics can be practically no growth at all.

Edited March 3, 2022 by JC71

[LaserCaps]

Like JC71 explained, the only way for this to happen is when a graft is dislodged. This typically happens immediately after the procedure, (and possibly within the first 2-3 days).  Most believe you can't do harm 3 days after the fact.  So, if you start bleeding profusely....that would be the sign.  

 

[AA1989]

6 hours ago, Coverdale said:

Cosmedica reports only 60-70% of FUE HT transplanted hairs survive, yet most other places report 85-95% survival ratings. Which is it? 

Aren't you being a little selective with your quotes?

Just below that on their sales spiel they say:-

Quote

Cosmedica Clinic in Istanbul has pioneered Sapphire DHI, which offers the highest graft survival rate of any treatment in the world. Hair grafts transplanted using Sapphire DHI have a survival rate of over 99%. No other technique comes close.

<yawn>

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed links do not post outside links

[Coverdale]

1 hour ago, AA1989 said:

Aren't you being a little selective with your quotes?

Just below that on their sales spiel they say:-

<yawn>

https://cosmedica.com/hair-transplant-success-rate/

I wish I were. I just read an article (prior to posting this) where they said 60-70%. I’ll try and locate it again. 

[Coverdale]

1 hour ago, AA1989 said:

Aren't you being a little selective with your quotes?

Just below that on their sales spiel they say:-

<yawn>

https://cosmedica.com/hair-transplant-success-rate/

This article by Cosmedica, written less than a year ago, states that a reputable hair clinic offering FUE will usually have a hair graft survival rate of 60-70%, and that this is the industry standard. Perhaps my initial statement being “Cosmedica reports only…” caused confusion and you assumed I meant Cosmedica says that’s the usual survival rate, when instead they implied 60-70 percent is the percentage that most reputable clinics “have”, or I’m guessing report - according to them. 
🥱

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Coverdale

[Coverdale]

1 minute ago, Coverdale said:

This article by Cosmedica, written less than a year ago, states that a reputable hair clinic offering FUE will usually have a hair graft survival rate of 60-70%, and that this is the industry standard. Perhaps my initial statement being “Cosmedica reports only…” caused confusion and you assumed I meant Cosmedica says that’s the usual survival rate, when instead they implied 60-70 percent is the percentage that most reputable clinics “have”, or I’m guessing report - according to them. 
🥱

 

Edit - You said I’m being selective with my quotes. I typed a phrase into Google search and this was the top answer. While their sales pitch may say %99, I’m simply going by the answer I was given during the search of my specific topic. I didn’t intend on going through their entire website looking for different opinions. 

[AA1989]

21 minutes ago, Coverdale said:

Edit - You said I’m being selective with my quotes. I typed a phrase into Google search and this was the top answer. While their sales pitch may say %99, I’m simply going by the answer I was given during the search of my specific topic. I didn’t intend on going through their entire website looking for different opinions. 

The hair transplant industry is big business and all in not what it seems. No need to search their whole website. The 'we have a survival rate of 99%' follows just after telling us the industry standard is 60-70% in the same article/sales spiel.

 

Clearly it's the usual rubbish. They are low-balling the 'industry standard (according them)' so they can set the reader up for the sales pitch

Quote

Cosmedica Clinic in Istanbul has pioneered Sapphire DHI, which offers the highest graft survival rate of any treatment in the world. Hair grafts transplanted using Sapphire DHI have a survival rate of over 99%. No other technique comes close.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed link

[Coverdale]

4 minutes ago, AA1989 said:

The hair transplant industry is big business and all in not what it seems. No need to search their whole website. The 'we have a survival rate of 99%' follows just after telling us the industry standard is 60-70% in the same article/sales spiel.

https://cosmedica.com/hair-transplant-success-rate/

Clearly it's the usual rubbish. They are low-balling the 'industry standard (according them)' so they can set the reader up for the sales pitch

 

That makes sense.

[Britanium]

Cosmedica posting that is very ironic since they are synonymous with poor results/low growth. Its most likely been plagiarised from a decent clinics website… 

[AA1989]

This is a much better read on graft survival rate factors.

https://injertocapilar.com/sp_faq/factors-influencing-graft-survival/ 

[kirkland]

2 hours ago, AA1989 said:

This is a much better read on graft survival rate factors.

https://injertocapilar.com/sp_faq/factors-influencing-graft-survival/ 

Thanks for posting this. Quite enlightening.

Here's the summary (written by the MD, not me) for those that don't want to go through the entire article. No hard conclusions to be drawn but the doctor who wrote it attributes the rate of vascularization as important. 

General Impressions:

We have looked at graft survival from many viewpoints, but we have not yet satisfactorily uncovered some of the factors leading to inconsistencies in growth. In this author’s opinion, part of it may lie in the recipient bed and the speed of revascularization. Grafts placed inmediately after harvesting don’t seem to grow significantly better than those placed several hours later. Rinaldi’s use of topical 1-3-atodine solution post-transplantation, the effects of PRP, the use of inhibitors of iNOS, and the work on up-regulating VEGF are all exciting. Grafts may take 3 or more days to re-vascularise. Anything to speed this process or support them in the interim logically might help. Preconditioning of grafts with growth factors and antioxidants while out of the body is also very promising. Additionally, isolated cases suggesting improved hair growth using hyperbaric oxygen (HBO) are encouraging, especially when one considers studies showing improved skin graft and flap survival with HBO. It should be pointed out that oxygen therapy is known to stimulate angiogenesis.

[Al - Moderator]

On 3/3/2022 at 12:00 PM, Coverdale said:

Everywhere I’ve read and the videos I’ve seen, even where the Admin of the forum has posted a YouTube video detailing it, signs of failed or lost grafts can include bleeding or pain. You’re saying that’s not the case? I wasn’t and am not asking about whether the transplant itself is successful, I’m asking about whether or not you can tell when a graft has failed. Perhaps I wasn’t clear on that. 

 

A failed graft (does not grow) and a lost graft (pops out during the first few days) are two completely different things. A lot of people come here saying they rubbed the grafts or they bumped their head and they are worried that they lost some grafts. In those cases there are some obvious signs that you would usually see if some grafts came out. You would be bleeding from the area. Being able to know if a graft will grow doesn't usually have any signs. Everything can look great after the surgery and you may still not get good growth. This could be because the grafts did not have intact follicle roots or the roots may have been damaged. This is something underneath the surface once the grafts are placed, so you can't see it.