Anyone able to maintain longterm and regrow only using topicals and micro-needling?

[fitwhynot]

I read a lot about people saying it's necessary to use an oral (like finasteride) if you want to maintain longterm or regrow as best as you can and I've seen some pretty impressive results from people using just oral fin; however, I'm apprehensive about using an oral.

My current regiment post ~2 months post hair-transplant is:

• Micro-needle every Monday in the crown (where no hairs were transplanted), using Strut's topical Dutasteride/Minox/Trentinoin all over the head immediately after.
• Apply Strut's topical again all over the head on Thursdays.
• Rogaine twice/day on days when I don't use Strut's topical or micro-needle.

FWIW: I got a baseline of my bloodwork before starting this regiment, and I will be getting new results soon to identify if this approach is affecting me systemically.

I've spoke with different doctors and dermatologists and the consensus is usually that they don't know anything about topical dutasteride and would rather prescribe oral fin / topical minox.

Is this a good approach or do I really need to add oral finasteride?

Edited November 4, 2021 by fitwhynot

[TEXAN35]

For detailed information there is a thread . 

 I just started using struts topical dutasteride twice a week even though their prescription mentions to apply daily. I am just using Dutasteride+Bitotin since I apply a separate solution for minoxidil. Its seems few have had good success with using just topical Dut without oral fin. But again it also varies with individual. I think you can try just topical for 6 months and see the progress then reevaluate the need for oral fin. I stopped fin few months ago even though I didn't have any perceived side affects because I read about negative neurological impact because of long term use of fin. I will again reevaluate in 6 months. Fin has been good in slowing down hairloss initially but over time it seems to have become less affective for me.

[fitwhynot]

Thanks for sharing your experience @TEXAN35! Keep us informed during your journey if you can :).

[mustang]

I have had excellent results with Topical Dutasteride only and maintained and regrown for 2 years.

Once a week

[fitwhynot]

2 hours ago, mustang said:

I have had excellent results with Topical Dutasteride only and maintained and regrown for 2 years.

Once a week

after how long did you see regrowth?

Edited November 8, 2021 by fitwhynot

[mustang]

4 months

[fitwhynot]

hell yeah congrats @mustang, hoping i'll have the same success

[fitwhynot]

just updating this to let everyone know: i got bad dermatitis from (what my dermatologist believes to be) the combo of minox/duta and trentinoin.  as a result, i messaged the doctor from STRUT about it and they sent me a solution with .1% duta and added biotin.

Edited November 13, 2021 by fitwhynot

[TEXAN35]

On 11/10/2021 at 2:31 PM, fitwhynot said:

just updating this to let everyone know: i got bad dermatitis from (what my dermatologist believes to be) the combo of minox/duta and trentinoin.  as a result, i messaged the doctor from STRUT about it and they sent me a solution with .1% duta and added biotin.

I am also using this solution. No visible side affects yet. Though they have gone little bit overboard with menthol/mint aroma. Alcohol based minoxl gives me itching and headache so I choose this option. Not sure why on struts prescription it mentions to apply DUT daily. Does your prescription recommends daily topical application too ?

[fitwhynot]

2 hours ago, TEXAN35 said:

I am also using this solution. No visible side affects yet. Though they have gone little bit overboard with menthol/mint aroma. Alcohol based minoxl gives me itching and headache so I choose this option. Not sure why on struts prescription it mentions to apply DUT daily. Does your prescription recommends daily topical application too ?

It does recommend daily application, but i am not doing that and here's why:

07/22/2021	DHT - 220 pg/mL (1.3 nmol/L)	...... TEST TOTAL - 419 ng/dL (2.47 nmol/L)
11/03/2021	DHT - 125 pg/mL (.74 nmol/L)	...... TEST TOTAL - 486 ng/dL (2.87 nmol/L)

After 3.5 months, DHT decreased by 43%, while TEST TOTAL increased by 16%.
 

I don't want to nuke my DHT, so I am limiting my application to 1-3 times a week.

[mustang]

Once a week is more than enough for me

[fitwhynot]

53 minutes ago, mustang said:

Once a week is more than enough for me

Would you be willing to do a blood test for DHT and T? Would be interesting to know what your levels are at with your approach.

[mustang]

I'm on TRT now so passed that window

when natural there was almost no decline on DHT (10%)

[TEXAN35]

7 hours ago, fitwhynot said:

It does recommend daily application, but i am not doing that and here's why:

07/22/2021	DHT - 220 pg/mL (1.3 nmol/L)	...... TEST TOTAL - 419 ng/dL (2.47 nmol/L)
11/03/2021	DHT - 125 pg/mL (.74 nmol/L)	...... TEST TOTAL - 486 ng/dL (2.87 nmol/L)

After 3.5 months, DHT decreased by 43%, while TEST TOTAL increased by 16%.
 

I don't want to nuke my DHT, so I am limiting my application to 1-3 times a week.

That means the topical DUT went systematic for you. I read somewhere that since DHT has large molecular size it remains on scalp and doesn't go systematic but I guess thats unfounded.

[TEXAN35]

You guys leave the Topical DUT overnight ? I usually apply it daytime and then shampoo my hair in 3-4 hrs.

[fitwhynot]

50 minutes ago, TEXAN35 said:

That means the topical DUT went systematic for you. I read somewhere that since DHT has large molecular size it remains on scalp and doesn't go systematic but I guess thats unfounded.

Applying DUT without micro-needling will probably result in much less systemic absorption than what I am experiencing.  I am applying DUT immediately after micro-needling, which will make it go systemic. For me, it's more so about how much goes systemic.

Simply said: my DHT reduction is probably less than what it would be if I was using an oral DHT blocker (like fin or duta); I'm more than okay with 43% reduction of DHT from micro-needling and using duta; especially considering I have no sides.

Check out this study regarding oral finasteride DHT reduction: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495374/

"Scalp skin DHT levels declined significantly by 13.0% with placebo and by 14.9%, 61.6%, 56. 5%, 64.1%, and 69.4% with 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg doses of finasteride, respectively. Serum DHT levels declined significantly (P <.001) by 49.5%, 68.6%, 71.4%, and 72.2% in the 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg finasteride treatment groups, respectively."

48 minutes ago, TEXAN35 said:

You guys leave the Topical DUT overnight ? I usually apply it daytime and then shampoo my hair in 3-4 hrs.

Yes; practically all day to be honest.

Edited November 21, 2021 by fitwhynot

[mustang]

10 hours ago, fitwhynot said:

Applying DUT without micro-needling will probably result in much less systemic absorption than what I am experiencing.  I am applying DUT immediately after micro-needling, which will make it go systemic. For me, it's more so about how much goes systemic.

Simply said: my DHT reduction is probably less than what it would be if I was using an oral DHT blocker (like fin or duta); I'm more than okay with 43% reduction of DHT from micro-needling and using duta; especially considering I have no sides.

Check out this study regarding oral finasteride DHT reduction: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10495374/

"Scalp skin DHT levels declined significantly by 13.0% with placebo and by 14.9%, 61.6%, 56. 5%, 64.1%, and 69.4% with 0.01, 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg doses of finasteride, respectively. Serum DHT levels declined significantly (P <.001) by 49.5%, 68.6%, 71.4%, and 72.2% in the 0.05, 0.2, 1, and 5 mg finasteride treatment groups, respectively."

Yes; practically all day to be honest.

I am on the same boat as you. It doesn't matter to me if it goes systemic (which it almost always will) as long as the reduction is less than 25% I don't feel it. No oral dose can give you that amount let alone inhibit so much scalp DHT.

Your DHT reduction was greater than 43% by the way.

[fitwhynot]

2 hours ago, mustang said:

I am on the same boat as you. It doesn't matter to me if it goes systemic (which it almost always will) as long as the reduction is less than 25% I don't feel it. No oral dose can give you that amount let alone inhibit so much scalp DHT.

Your DHT reduction was greater than 43% by the way.

Sorry, can you show your calculation?

[Henry999]

On 11/21/2021 at 2:24 PM, mustang said:

I am on the same boat as you. It doesn't matter to me if it goes systemic (which it almost always will) as long as the reduction is less than 25% I don't feel it. No oral dose can give you that amount let alone inhibit so much scalp DHT.

Your DHT reduction was greater than 43% by the way.

How long did it take after payment to recieve topical dutasterid? Since Im thinking of starting oral dutasterid until the topical arrive.

[Gatsby]

I was under the impression that topical dutasteride has a heavier molecular weight and therefore stays in the dermis where DHT attacks the follicles and doesn't become systematic?

[fitwhynot]

15 hours ago, Gatsby said:

I was under the impression that topical dutasteride has a heavier molecular weight and therefore stays in the dermis where DHT attacks the follicles and doesn't become systematic?

My thought is: how could DUT not go systemic if one is micro-needling immediately before applying it topically?  I'm not a dermatologist but I would suspect my DHT would be significantly higher if I wasn't micro-needling immediately before application.

[TEXAN35]

On 12/2/2021 at 7:00 PM, Henry999 said:

How long did it take after payment to recieve topical dutasterid? Since Im thinking of starting oral dutasterid until the topical arrive.

If you are planning to use topical , no need to start with Oral, just wait for your order. From struts (USA) it was pretty quick probably less than a week for me. Not sure if you are in Europe or US. Again if ordering from Struts I would recommend just Dut+Biotin solution . They sell many concoctions but the minimum content , the better and less chances of sides. I am pretty happy with it in terms of easy to apply, no sides, no scalp irritation and no bad smell.  Hopefully they are as effective as the FUE clinic ones.

Edited December 4, 2021 by TEXAN35

[fitwhynot]

On 12/4/2021 at 9:55 AM, TEXAN35 said:

If you are planning to use topical , no need to start with Oral, just wait for your order. From struts (USA) it was pretty quick probably less than a week for me. Not sure if you are in Europe or US. Again if ordering from Struts I would recommend just Dut+Biotin solution . They sell many concoctions but the minimum content , the better and less chances of sides. I am pretty happy with it in terms of easy to apply, no sides, no scalp irritation and no bad smell.  Hopefully they are as effective as the FUE clinic ones.

Let us know when you start seeing improvements!

Edited December 12, 2021 by fitwhynot

[TEXAN35]

Yes i will update. It has been 45 days only, I would expect to see some impact from 4 months onward and probably keep track using monthly pictures.

Uptil now no sides and I got used to the minty aroma which is much better than the alcohol based solutions. Twice a week applications is easy and 20 mins after applying the solution the hair looks ok unlike some other solutions which make hair look sparse after application. I really hope it works since application is so easy.

[fitwhynot]

100 days of topical Minox (2x day), micro-needling (1x week) and topical Dutasteride (normally 3x week, .1% each time).

existing hair quality appears to have improved. photo on left was taken before hair transplant surgery (no grafts were placed in the crown; notice the blue line drawn in the zone above my crown). i have a bald spot in the crown still, but it is becoming slowly recovering maybe? looking forward to the next few months.

Edited December 13, 2021 by fitwhynot