SMP Cost

[MrMatt]

I was researching SMP and was very surprised at the high cost of this procedure.

 

What all is involved in this technique to justify the current high prices ?

[mav23100gunther]

I don't think there is anything specific about the procedure itself that runs up the cost, but rather the law of supply and demand. If a patient wants SMP, he will pay for it, regardless of the cost, so it's the demand that probably drives it up.

[BaldKen2]

The prices SMP providers charge is based on the permanent make up and cosmetic tattooing industry and the fees they charge. Any good Permanent make up practitioner charges around $300-$500 an hour. When I first began looking into SMP I was also surprised at the high cost. I expected it to cost far less and closer to what traditional tattoo artists charge.

Edited June 20, 2015 by BaldKen2

[andrewdyson]

The prices SMP providers charge is based on the permanent make up and cosmetic tattooing industry and the fees they charge. Any good Permanent make up practitioner charges around $300-$500 an hour. When I first began looking into SMP I was also surprised at the high cost. I expected it to cost far less and closer to what traditional tattoo artists charge.

 

I'm not so sure about that. When you consider the time taken, the concentration required, the skill level the tech must have, the training, the administration and aftercare, the overheads, the insurance....... I'm not so sure a cut-price option would be a good idea

[BaldKen2]

I'm not so sure about that. When you consider the time taken, the concentration required, the skill level the tech must have, the training, the administration and aftercare, the overheads, the insurance....... I'm not so sure a cut-price option would be a good idea

 

The Permanent Makeup industry spawned the Smp industry. That's just a fact. A couple of the original and more widely known SMP providers were actually Permanent Makeup Clinics/salons before becoming 'SMP Exclusive' providers. Many of the smp technicians were formally permanent makeup technicians. It has been more of a marketing ploy instituted by SMP providers to try and Separate SMP from permanent makeup.

 

As far as the skill level and training of many SMP techs being reflective of the pricing, that is both Debatable and Comical. Next time you speak with an SMP Provider, inquire about the tech's certification and training program completed. When you examine these I can bet that the certification possessed was obtained in less than two months (that's being generous) or the tech's training was completed at the provider's own internal training program that consisted of a few weeks lol. Either way the details will be vague. For now you are dealing with an unregulated industry where they make their own rules. For now.

Edited July 3, 2015 by BaldKen2

[andrewdyson]

The Permanent Makeup industry spawned the Smp industry. That's just a fact. A couple of the original and more widely known SMP providers were actually Permanent Makeup Clinics/salons before becoming 'SMP Exclusive' providers. Many of the smp technicians were formally permanent makeup technicians. It has been more of a marketing ploy instituted by SMP providers to try and Separate SMP from permanent makeup.

 

As far as the skill level and training of many SMP techs being reflective of the pricing, that is both Debatable and Comical. Next time you speak with an SMP Provider, inquire about the tech's certification and training program completed. When you examine these I can bet that the certification possessed was obtained in less than two months (that's being generous) or the tech's training was completed at the provider's own internal training program that consisted of a few weeks lol. Either way the details will be vague. For now you are dealing with an unregulated industry where they make their own rules. For now.

 

Did you get SMP yourself? Why are you so anti-SMP?

 

I do not believe your assumptions to be correct. Of the three biggest SMP companies in the world (and they are undeniably the top 3):

 

 

• One adapted permanent makeup processes to create an SMP process. They were never a permanent makeup salon or tattoo studio
  
• One was started by an entrepreneur with no background in the medical or micropigmentation industry
  
• One started out as a hair transplant clinic
  

Techs do not have certification because there is no certification available. Unless you're suggesting that SMP techs should be trained and certified in permanent makeup or paramedical tattooing, both of which are largely irrelevant in the context of hair loss (excluding HT scars of course).

 

 

In many ways, the industry is more transparent than you may think. Clinics and techs live and die by their results, and people are wise to the practice of editing images, stealing images or otherwise manipulating their 'results'. If results are sub-standard, they struggle to win business.

[BaldKen2]

Did you get SMP yourself? Why are you so anti-SMP?

 

I do not believe your assumptions to be correct. Of the three biggest SMP companies in the world (and they are undeniably the top 3):

 

 

• 
  
• One adapted permanent makeup processes to create an SMP process. They were never a permanent makeup salon or tattoo studio
  
• One was started by an entrepreneur with no background in the medical or micropigmentation industry
  
• One started out as a hair transplant clinic
  

Techs do not have certification because there is no certification available. Unless you're suggesting that SMP techs should be trained and certified in permanent makeup or paramedical tattooing, both of which are largely irrelevant in the context of hair loss (excluding HT scars of course).

 

 

In many ways, the industry is more transparent than you may think. Clinics and techs live and die by their results, and people are wise to the practice of editing images, stealing images or otherwise manipulating their 'results'. If results are sub-standard, they struggle to win business.

 

I am not anti-SMP, quite the opposite actually, I'm very much for it when it is done correctly. It's the shady business practices (like provider owners and employees creating forum profiles under false pretenses) and lack of training that I am against.

 

You mentioned the 3 SMP providers that are "the biggest in the world." First of all, you did not include the names to support your point. Secondly, who says they are the "biggest in the world"? By which criteria are you making such claims? Clinic locations maybe? I have found that at least one provider who lists about 40 U.S. locations on their site does not even have locations at many of the addresses they claim. It's amazing what you can find if you do a little digging, or if you travel a lot for work, like myself, and go and try and hunt down these supposed clinic locations. This is the reason why this particular company has resorted to performing treatments in hotel rooms in various cities and states, illegally I might add. Because they do not have locations where they claim, it's a sham. Also, it is very easy for certain Providers to appear much more legit and established through the use of Search Engine Optimization. You google SMP and the 3 providers that pop up the most must be the largest and most established, right? Wrong. The Internet is how we research things these days, and it is quite easy for companies in any industry to exploit this fact and manipulate things in such a way to create a misleading image of 'success'. It's just like many providers claiming they invented SMP. The owner of Scalp Aesthetics had his personal SMP treatment with HIS HAIR IN NEW YORK, then opened up SA and now he claims he invented SMP. The truth is, hair follicle replication has been around for decades. The marketing and advertising did not commence until about 10 years ago, which is why many think it is brand new. If you do 'old school' research it is quite easy to find the truth and expose the BS.

 

Artistry Concepts was one of the earlier providers offering SMP. Before becoming SMP Clinic, they were in fact a Permanent Makeup Salon, as well as a traditional body art tattoo studio. I'm not saying anything negative about AC, from what I've researched Artistry Concepts is one of the best and skilled providers available, plus you are guaranteed the knowledge of who your tech will be and his resume and background are available, which is the owner. I just mention them by name to support my earlier point from my previous post that SMP is simply an extension of permanent makeup.

 

Of course there is no specific Scalp Micropigmentation certification! I never suggested such a thing. Lol. Just like there is no lip micropigmentation certification, no eyebrow micropigmentation certification, no eyelid micropigmentation certification, etc. Micropigmentation certifications are not specific to areas of the face or head lol. There are however, General MICROPIGMENTATION CERTIFICATIONS and training programs. One of my good friends is a Micropigmentation instructor. I would not ever trust my Scalp to a provider whose techs have not completed a reputable micro program and who do not possess certifications, nor should anyone! I'm sure you are familiar with Micropigmentation training though, right?

 

As far as Micropigmentation not being relevant to hair loss, that is just a silly point. First of all, If you knew anything about Micropigmentation education and training, you would know that one of the first and main things covered is educating the technicians on Alopecia: causes, patterns, prevention, etc. Afterall, even in permanent makeup for the face, many female clients are dealing with eyebrow thinning and loss of eye brows all together. And of course Gneral Micropigmentation Certifications are relevant and necessary for SMP tech to have. And where do you think the SMP providers are purchasing their Machines, Needles, Pigments, Chairs, lights from??? From the exact same companies that supply these exact same products to Permanent Makeup Studios.

 

You say there is transparency in the SMP industry? Okay, well do me a favor then. Call any one of the 3 companies who you claim are the "biggest in the world" and ask them what brand pigments they use. Ask them the brand and model of their Micropigmentation machines. Ask them specific questions regarding their needles. Ask them to view the resumes of their techs so you can see their experience. Then report back to us with all of these details to further demonstrate your point that there is "transparency."

 

You seem to have some really good knowledge of SMP, and made a couple of really good points on one of your posts from a different thread. I am sure we are in agreement on much of the permanent SMP industry, and I am very much in favor of good providers who have skilled, trained technicians. I also am in support of providers who rely on their good results and facilities and don't resort to deception and false advertising to gain clientele. I'm sure you would agree on that point. And there are absolutely some great providers out there who produce wonderful work, and do things the ethical way. And I know I fight an uphill battle posting brutally honest unbiased opinions on this forum, but some guys do crossword puzzles and Sudoku's during their smoke breaks at work, and lately I've posted on this forum lol.(since I don't smoke and have grown bored with Sudoku's)

 

Have you received an SMP treatment yourself, or do you work in the industry?You seem to have some strong opinions for such a brand new forum member. Or maybe you are just an "SMP guru" That's good though, I enjoy the discussion.

 

Anyway, I gotta head into a meeting, that thankfully does not involve the discussion of any hair loss or SMP topics LOL. You have a good one brother:)

Edited July 3, 2015 by BaldKen2

[andrewdyson]

The biggest in the world, measured by a combination of factors - primarily by their scale and marketing reach but also factoring in the number of people who say they had SMP at that particular company, as well as a good dose of prior (well informed) knowledge. There are three clear leaders, and a number of smaller (but still significant) clinics. If you disagree with my assessment, I have no proof to offer other than my word, but I can assure you I am absolutely correct.

 

I did not mention names, because no doubt I would have been accused of being a shill or something. There is no need to explain the concept of SEO to me, it's what I do.

 

I know this industry very well indeed, however I do not wish to compromise my position by elaborating on this point. Like yourself, I have a strong interest in the process and the industry as a whole, and I believe there is a bright future for those companies that do it the right way.

 

For the record, micropigmentation qualifications mean virtually nothing in the world of SMP. Some of the worst results ever seen were performed by qualified micropigmentation 'experts' using 'high quality' machines, needles and pigments, yet these people preach about the importance of qualifications and the need for regulation. That's the real sham.

 

Put the right equipment and the right inks in the hands of a skilled artist with the RIGHT KIND of experience, and you'll get the best results, regardless of how many pieces of paper with their name on they may or may not have.

 

I agree with some of your points, but not with others. Unfortunately I do not get breaks at work, so I don't have a great deal of time to post here. You speak like someone who has more to do with this industry than you're letting on. That's fine, because so do I. Just because people don't show their entire hand doesn't make their views any less valid. I respect your opinion and wish you well.

[BaldKen2]

There is no need to explain the concept of SEO to me, it's what I do.

That does not come as a huge surprise to me. Kinda figured that;)

 

I know this industry very well indeed, however I do not wish to compromise my position by elaborating on this point.... That's fine, because so do I. Just because people don't show their entire hand doesn't make their views any less valid.

Again...no huge 'shocker' there:D. I've read enough forum threads to know when I am speaking with a person who makes their living via the SMP/Hair loss industry. Although I wouldn't necessarily say that your opinions are less valid b/c of your obvious Bias and Provider Affiliation, I would say that any information you or any other SMP employee or clinic owner provides (that you cannot prove) is more than questionable.

 

For the record, micropigmentation qualifications mean virtually nothing in the world of SMP. Some of the worst results ever seen were performed by qualified micropigmentation 'experts' using 'high quality' machines, needles and pigments, yet these people preach about the importance of qualifications and the need for regulation. That's the real sham.

Put the right equipment and the right inks in the hands of a skilled artist with the RIGHT KIND of experience, and you'll get the best results, regardless of how many pieces of paper with their name on they may or may not have.

LOL, spoken like a true marketing guy. I don't know of too many industries in which licensing and certifications are not necessary for verification of ones skills and abilities. You said it yourself, photo results can be altered (photoshop) and even stolen. Resumes can also be forged. In an industry that claims it is performing a "medical procedure", is it crazy to expect some sort of minimal medical training/background, as it pertains to alopecia, from the technicians? With so much deception and misleading advertising, I do not think it is unrealistic for clients to expect a more regulated industry and technicians with SOME CREDENTIALS as opposed to just taking an advertising guy or Salesman's word for it that "this technician is very skilled and talented with years of experience." :rolleyes:

 

 

Unfortunately I do not get breaks at work, so I don't have a great deal of time to post here.

Wow, and here I thought you most likely worked from home on your PC.

 

 

You speak like someone who has more to do with this industry than you're letting on. That's fine, because so do I.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but your assumption that I am in any way involved in the Hair loss or SMP industry is 100% Inaccurate. Other than having received SMP treatment personally, and having a friend who is a Micropigmentation instructor at a nearby school, I have zero involvement in the hair loss industry, and certainly no financial investment. I do feel that some providers (very few) are honest with their advertising and business practices, and do things the right way, but I could never see myself working in an industry that is polluted with so much deception and one in which the majority of providers are MORALLY BANKRUPT. I also could not, in good conscience, charge clients such high prices for a Treatment that I feel is overrated and certainly overpriced. No, I would rather spend my life effectively helping people in areas much more significant and life-changing than hair loss.

I feel that SMP is a great way to help guys feel better about themselves. Guys who are completely bald, or have hair loss to the point where they must already shave their heads regularly are the ones who will see the most improvement. For guys who have a good amount of remaining hair but have slight or mild thinning, I believe that there are better Hair Loss solutions and better routes to take than SMP, and I would recommend they explore other alternatives. I feel that SMP is kind of a Last Resort Solution. I think that SMP provides somewhat of a frame for the face, and under certain lighting can look pretty good. However, in situations where there is bright overhead lighting, like in Gymnasiums, Auditoriums, or direct sunlight, the Pigmentation 'Dots' will be mostly invisible and the individual will not see much benefit from the results of their treatment.

Of course there are many other things that factor into SMP looking its best. I personally feel that the more athletic and 'in-shape' a person looks, the better they will look with a shaved head or SMP treatment. An unhealthy person who is overweight usually does not pull of 'the look' as well. Also, I find that more tan or latino guys, or African-American men look better with shaved or smp heads. If you are a very pale white guy you won't look as good with smp as you would if you had some color or tan to you, IMO. But I have seen some guys that do the 'spray tan thing' and look a ton better so its all about how you play it.

 

We obviously live in a society in which every direction you turn someone is selling a pill, a cream, a lotion, a surgical procedure, or in this case a Treatment that will supposedly solve all of your problems with self-confidence and make you more attractive and appealing to the opposite sex, making you look and feel better. I do believe that some Products and Sevices/procedures can absolutely provide a jump-start to aiding a person with a particular problem and help them start to feel more confident, whether their struggle is with hair loss, acne, obesity etc. or some other issue. But to try and sell the idea that SMP (or any of these other products or services) provides more than just a minor boost is simply a lie. I believe first and foremost, a person needs a healthy spiritual life and spiritual connection to feel happy and content. Healthy relationships and a strong support group would probably come second, followed by a healthy diet and exercise regiment. But a superficial improvement will never permanently repair a deeper internal problem, which is what I believe many guys obsessed with their hair loss suffer from.

 

If you are a person who is just simply not content with his or her appearance, after you 'fix' one thing about yourself, you will more than likely move on to some other aspect of your appearance that you are not satisfied with to try and repair your self-esteem. First it is the hair, then its the teeth, then its the body, then its the skin....it never ends and this 'Hollywood Syndrome' seems to be an endless, sad, and lonely road in which Providers get richer and clients get sicker. (E.g.: Bruce Jenner)

I feel that sometimes we fixate so heavily on things that we hate about ourselves, that life just passes us right on by. I was guilty of this for several years when I fixated on my hair loss. The saddest part about it is that most people don't even care enough to notice the things about ourselves that we are most insecure about and work so hard to change. They are too busy worried about their own problems and insecurities;)

Edited July 16, 2015 by BaldKen2