A question about FUE prices in Turkey

[MikroFUE]

Just to clarify HT nomenclature, (Maybe KO and GraveD11igger are talking about the same thing, but?)

 

Depending on the technique, HT operations are done in 2 or 3 main stages. Nowadays, most of the clinics use 3-staged technique.

 

Note: FUT or FUE is just different techniques of Stage 1. The procedures are the same during Stage 2 and 3.

 

 

STAGE 1; is for graft removal and preparation; Technique might be FUT, manual FUE or Mikromotor-powered FUE (all so-called robotic devices are variations of Mikromotor-powered FUE)

At the end of this stage, all grafts are ready for implantation or insertion.

 

STAGE 2; is for opening the channels, or incisions. At the end of this stage, all channels (slits, holes or incisions) are ready to be filled (implanted or inserted) with grafts.

 

STAGE 3; is for graft implantation or graft insertion ; is for filling the channels with grafts. Mikroforceps are used. At the end of this stage, operation finishes.

 

Mikroforcep; Microsurgical instrument to hold the grafts during implantation (insertion to the channels)

 

 

 

If pen-implanter or variations of pen is used for graft implantation (insertion), there are only 2 stages.

STAGE 1: Graft removal, everything is the same as 3-staged procedure; Technique might be FUT or Mikromotor-powered FUE but this is very rare and exceptional, generally manual FUE is used.

STAGE 2: There is no channel opening (incisions, or slits), grafts are placed into the pen, and insertion of the pen into the skin both open the channel (or hole) and implant (or insert) the graft. That said, channel opening and implantation occur at the same time and continue one by one insertion of the grafts.

 

 

NOTE: Very rare, almost totally abandoned variation of 3 staged procedure is; stage 2 and stage 3 is done one by one. Surgeon opens one channel and technician inserts one graft to this channel immediately and the graft implantation continues like this until all grafts are inserted. This technique was tried but abandoned later, because it is much more time consuming and cause more rebound fenomena.

Rebound fenomena: During implantation, when trying to insert a graft, self extraction of neighboring readily inserted grafts, they need to be re-inserted.

 

 

 

Today, most clinics use 3-staged procedure and Mikroforceps-implantation. Some rare clinics which use manual FUE graft extraction use pen implantation as a 2-staged procedure. FUT surgeons have almost never used pen implantation.

 

 

Maral Klinik has experience on all the techniques and stages of HT, including FUT, manual FUE graft extraction and pen implantation. We abandoned all others years ago and we now only offer Mikromotor powered FUE as a 3-staged procedure.

Edited January 10, 2015 by MikroFUE

[GraveD11gger]

No, that is wrong. Most clinics use doctors to make the incisions, the technician's job is to place the grafts into pre-made incisions. That does not mean that technicians are doing insertions.

 

Uhh, this is exactly means that technicians are doing insertions (or implantations). You are arguing about words of your native tongue yet but me whose 2nd language it is correct.

 

Use a dictionary or look up incision and insertion/implantation on Google.

 

Now, we can integrate this thread with this one; http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178006-why-do-some-people-think-doctors-do-fue-better-than-techs-5.html

 

Originally Posted by KO: Serious question - are you illiterate or deliberately trying to confuse extraction and implantation?

 

Serious question; Are you so illiterate after 1700+ posts, or mentally retarded to a degree that you do not understand what you read, or deliberately trying to confuse everything just to attack and bash Maral.

 

Originally posted by KO; and don't tell me that "Maral is an aesthetic surgeon" because Maral does not operate.

 

And don't tell me nobody attacked Maral Klinik, I have just read the post of your best friend PUP, he has admitted somebody have been attacking Maral and justified that - at least he is honest for that-, I am still laughing his reply, I will reply when I stop -LOL.

[KO]

No, that's not how it works. Implantation has two steps: incision and placement, and techs do the latter. Just because a surgeon is doing incision and techs placement does not mean techs are doing implantation. If there was no incision where would techs implant? LOL.

 

Oh no, I am clearly criticising Maral Klinik, it is not my problem that you are a shill for this clinic, nor is it my problem that this clinic regularly violates forum rules, for example they just posted in the FUE section when moderators have clearly instructed them to limit their activity to responding to criticism. It seems that both clinic and and their representative shill have trouble reading.

[1966kph]

No, that's not how it works. Implantation has two steps: incision and placement, and techs do the latter. Just because a surgeon is doing incision and techs placement does not mean techs are doing implantation. If there was no incision where would techs implant? LOL.

 

What a load of twaddle.

Next thing you'll be pissing on our shoes and try and convince us its raining.

Thats like saying a roofer does not put the roof on because the brickie builds the walls for the roof to sit.

We are wrong and so is the Oxford English dictionary or any other source you may think of to get the literal meaning.

Using a implanter pen is implanting as its the two in one,incision and implantation of the graft.

Just look up the meaning of incision and implantation. Your wrong its no big deal let's move on life's to bloody short.

Next thing you'll be saying black is white.

Have a good day

[KO]

And as usual, the white knight rides to the defense of Maral Klinik. Making an incision is absolutely part of implantation. By saying "techs everywhere do implantation, so Maral is no different" is deliberately confusing the issue, and if you cannot see the difference you are a fool.

[GraveD11gger]

No, that's not how it works. Implantation has two steps: incision and placement, and techs do the latter. Just because a surgeon is doing incision and techs placement does not mean techs are doing implantation. If there was no incision where would techs implant? LOL.

 

OK, I can not find a word to describe your personality and intellectual level and I will leave this to the readers -actual HT loss sufferers- of this thread. Surely they will appreciate.

 

Anyway, if a technician hold the graft and put/insert/implant it to the hole/channel/slit/incision, this is invasive surgery, and we can say that one step of HT is done by technicians totally.

 

Maral's representative said graft insertion is the most important step for graft survival, that means the core for HT success is done by technicians in all clinics.

 

And for one important step, stage 1, graft extraction, very surgical process, we all know now that almost all clinics use technicians. Some examples; Feriduni, Rahal (he use inexperienced technicians), Lorenzo, Bhatti, Diep, Gabel, Erdogan, Doganay, yes one last patient of Doganay clearly stated that all graft extractions were done by a technician.

 

So,if the most important steps of HT (step 1 and 3, graft extraction and insertion) are done by technicians and doctor only make incisions, is that logical to say that doctor does the operation? NO. If the answer is YES, the we can also say that Dr. Maral does the operation as well, simply by supervising, planning, thinking and most importantly assuming medicolegal responsibilities and giving his name to his own clinic, MARALHAIRKLINIK.

 

Maral is plastic surgeon with HT license, others not. I hope you have taken the hint. You can be sure that readers take.

[GraveD11gger]

Ko, I replied but it got caught for moderator review. I hope the moderators review it and post it soon.

[1966kph]

I'm not defending the clinic I'm defending the meaning of the words incision and implantation.I'm defending basic English.

Incision is not part of implantation incision is a nessary step to allow for implantation.

And how is it that you always have to slip in some back handed reference to lack of intelligence.

I do not insult you I try to remain civil and polite would you please show myself and others the same?Thank you.

Have a good day

[GraveD11gger]

KO, Until we wait it, can you reply my question;

 

PupDaddy could not say the correct answer and he has proved he is illiterate to become a HT authority here,

 

Could you please prove your authority as a senior member?

 

Here are 2 examples of channels/incisions, slits by lateral slit technique, which one is correct and why?? (I received both pictures from the forum)

 

Clue for you: The answer is here in this forum, one of the respectful HT physician Dr. Alan Feller explained that, and one of the moderators posted his comments about that.

[GraveD11gger]

their representative shill ......

 

So, are all representatives shills? Spanker, Californian, Pete the Farjo, Denny......... or only MikroFUE?

 

Are you insulting all or or just one of them? Ahh, I guess, just one of them, ha?

[PupDaddy]

And don't tell me nobody attacked Maral Klinik, I have just read the post of your best friend PUP, he has admitted somebody have been attacking Maral and justified that - at least he is honest for that-, I am still laughing his reply, I will reply when I stop -LOL.

 

Please do not misquote me or put words in my mouth, GraveD11gger. The Maral Klinic has dug itself a deep enough credibility hole here without you taking up the shovel and digging even deeper. You can laugh at my responses to your comment and questions all you want, but we would all be better served by FACTS to refute the points I made.

[GraveD11gger]

Please do not misquote me or put words in my mouth, GraveD11gger. The Maral Klinic has dug itself a deep enough credibility hole here without you taking up the shovel and digging even deeper. You can laugh at my responses to your comment and questions all you want, but we would all be better served by FACTS to refute the points I made.

 

Ah, as usual, black knight rides to the offense and threat. Where had you replied my red herring before this thread? Show me now, then a big apologize will follow if you can do this?

 

I have already begun to refute, I said I got caught moderators censorship. Hope, we can discuss all freely.

Edited January 12, 2015 by GraveD11gger

[KO]

I'm not defending the clinic I'm defending the meaning of the words incision and implantation.I'm defending basic English.

Incision is not part of implantation incision is a nessary step to allow for implantation.

And how is it that you always have to slip in some back handed reference to lack of intelligence.

I do not insult you I try to remain civil and polite would you please show myself and others the same?Thank you.

Have a good day

 

You precisely know what the agenda being played at here is. Their agenda is "techs everywhere implant grafts, so we are no different". What is true is everywhere techs PLACE grafts into premade incisions, they do not do the whole implantation process. Part of the implantation process is undoubtedly making the recipient incision. In fact it is the key step that controls survival and the aesthetic result whereas the placement is the rote part. How else would you implant?

[1966kph]

That is correct at just about all clinics techs implant grafts.

The difference you should be high lighting is that at maral clinic it is techs that do the recipient incisions.

Now this would be the correct way instead of insisting two jobs are indeed one.

If you had said this I would not be writing this now.

You can argue all you want about maral clinic I dont mind as its away from patients threads.

Have a nice day

[GraveD11gger]

Ko, will you reply my red herring to prove your authority? Do not sneak off, there is only one correct answer, know it and get my respect please.

 

Your last chance and opportunity to prove your authority here in this forum. A challenge.

Edited January 12, 2015 by GraveD11gger

[KO]

That is correct at just about all clinics techs implant grafts.

The difference you should be high lighting is that at maral clinic it is techs that do the recipient incisions.

Now this would be the correct way instead of insisting two jobs are indeed one.

If you had said this I would not be writing this now.

You can argue all you want about maral clinic I dont mind as its away from patients threads.

Have a nice day

 

If I want to argue about Maral, I will go and do it in a Maral patient thread. I do not take orders from you.

 

 

Just curious, do you do this shilling for him so you can get a free surgery?

 

And finally, no, techs do not "implant grafts" at reputable clinics, they place grafts into premade incisions.

[GraveD11gger]

If I want to argue about Maral, I will go and do it in a Maral patient thread. I do not take orders from you.

 

All Maral patients including me (my thread is coming soon) will welcome you but warning, we all never been using finasteride (Maral do not recommend, so be careful), and we all look forward to seeing your thread.

 

I will also welcome you in all Maral threads, now, reply my question about the pictures. If you reply wrong or do not reply, I will follow you in all threads and prove how illiterate you are about HT, but giving advices to real guys.

 

You say, when technician place graft to the premade slit (or hole), this does not mean that technician inserted or placed. We must stll accept that doctor does implantation. Sorry but it looks so foolish. Even Dr. Bahatti clearly indicated that incisions and graft placements are different steps of HT.

 

OK you proved your IQ, it does not matter but,

 

Now, prove your authority, if you are so author on HT,

 

Which incisions/slits in the pictures are correct and why?? /the other is wrong)

[GraveD11gger]

KO is here; he clearly says implantation involve incision.

 

Implantation has two steps: incision and placement,

 

KO is in another thread, he says the exact opposite now. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177902-most-important-stage-extraction-insertion.html

 

Originally Posted by KO:

Plantation does not involve cutting the skin.

 

 

I hope you will not say implantation and plantation is not the same or cutting the skin is not incision:rolleyes:

Have you decided whether implantation/plantation involve the incision/cutting the skin (first quote) or not (second quote)

[Sean]

There are forum recommended doctors that surgically create the recipient sites of where grafts will be inserted. However, the doctors have their techs place those removed grafts into the recipients sites the doctors create. I dont know of any clinic that has techs do both, create the recipient site surgically and then insert grafts into them. What clinic does this, any in turkey?

[KO]

Gravedigger and 1966kph are promoters of the one clinic that does...they use drills to open channels.

[GraveD11gger]

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177902-most-important-stage-extraction-insertion-2.html

 

Originally Posted by Dr. Bahatti,

 

Where harvesting is a skill, slit making is an art.

 

Plantation is a repetative exhausting process which need a keen eye, stamina and skill.

 

Plantation is the only step legally authorised to doctors.

 

Dr. Bahatti -one of the recommended, respectful surgeon (plastic surgeon like Dr. Maral) of the site clearly approved MikroFUE, saying HT has 3 steps or stages; harvesting, slit making and (im)plantation.

 

Wow, we all know that plantation is always performed by technicians in all clinics, FUT,FUE no matter (except pen implantation which is used rarely), This has been the reality from the beginning of HT operations.

 

Wooowww; plantation requires a keen eye, stamina and skill (experience and hard-working). So all the technicians have those talents??

 

:)Doctors never do (im)plantations, because they do not have those talents?.:rolleyes:

 

 

Here MikroFUE is saying the same thing, as stated by Dr. Bahatti. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172287-my-progress-dr-maral-21.html

 

Originally Posted by MikroFUE:

 

Graft implantation is the most important stage of hair transplant to ensure grafts viability.

 

Meticulous surgical technique, delicate handling of tissues (grafts), precise placement of the grafts into the channels, all require specific talents, patience, manual labor, endurance and so many years of experience and training, are piece de resistance for grafts survival.

 

Woowww, so, implantation/graft placement is the most important step for graft survival and the core of the HT operations is always done by technicians? YES.

 

will continue.....

[MikroFUE]

...they (Maral Klinik) use drills to open channels.

 

JUST TO CLARIFY OUR SURGİCAL TECHNİQUE:

 

No, we do not use any drills, we use custom made surgical blades and lateral slit technique as (almost) all clinics do. This is the most commonly used and the best technique for slits.

 

Our technique is clear in these threads:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177234-maral-klinik-grade-5-6-hair-loss-restoration-1st-session-5000-mikrofue-grafts.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177629-4900-grafts-fue-dr-maral-3.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177318-dr-maral-24-10-2014-5200-grafts-nw6.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177534-fue-4750-grafts-grade-6-dr-maral-clinic-nov-23-2014-a.html

 

 

(I think PupDaddy's fabricated comment misleaded KO)

 

Custom made means, depending lenght and diameter of the grafts of an individual patient, we adjust the lenght and size of the blade and make the slits using the lateral slit method. The direction of the slits should be parallel to the direction of the blood vessels (front-back direction) to protect them and less bleeding. The direction of the slits into the skin is in accordance with the growth direction of the hairs in different region of the scalp to ensure natural appearance.

 

This is well-known and the most advanced tecnique for the incisions applied in all clinics and in Maral Klinik as well.

 

Why lateral slit technique is the most commonly used technique?

Because blades are thin and make thin scratchs. regardless the graft survived or not, there will be no scar (totally scarless) at the end even if the patient have razor shave.

 

Nobody used and uses any drill for incisions. Anyway, pen implantation (because the tip of the pen is circular) opens the slit like a hole, it is not a slit in fact. If the graft(s) does not survive, there may be circular visible scar(s) left behind (it may just be visible with razor shave).

[GraveD11gger]

There are forum recommended doctors that surgically create the recipient sites of where grafts will be inserted. However, the doctors have their techs place those removed grafts into the recipients sites the doctors create. I dont know of any clinic that has techs do both, create the recipient site surgically and then insert grafts into them. What clinic does this, any in turkey?

 

I am coming to this matter Sean, step by step but, be patient.

 

I see KO will not answer my question about the slits (in post 34 in this thread), I think he will also prove his illiteracy about HT. PupDaddy also did not give the correct answer and proved his illeteracy. You are also a senior member. Would you like to answer my question? This is about incisions, about your authority. Then prove your authority, give the correct answer.?

[Blake Bloxham]

D11ger,

 

I think there may be some confusion here.

 

Two very different processes are being discussed: 1. A physician makes an incision site with a custom cut blade, and a technician then places a graft inside the site (as a side note, a physician removed this graft during the procedure); 2. a technician makes the incision site AND places the graft (as a second aside, the technician removed the graft in this scenario too).

 

I disagree with the idea that graft placement is the most "dangerous" step or the step with the most potential for graft damage. There are far more destructive forces involved during the extraction phase. Graft survival is more dependent on this phase. This is why I, among many others, think it's a role best suited for the trained physician.

[KO]

D11ger,

 

I think there may be some confusion here.

 

Two very different processes are being discussed: 1. A physician makes an incision site with a custom cut blade, and a technician then places a graft inside the site (as a side note, a physician removed this graft during the procedure); 2. a technician makes the incision site AND places the graft (as a second aside, the technician removed the graft in this scenario too).

 

I disagree with the idea that graft placement is the most "dangerous" step or the step with the most potential for graft damage. There are far more destructive forces involved during the extraction phase. Graft survival is more dependent on this phase. This is why I, among many others, think it's a role best suited for the trained physician.

 

Blake, just to provide some context, as you know one of the criticisms directed at this clinic is that techs do extraction as well as implantation. Now graved1gger is saying that everywhere technicians implant grafts so it is "all the same" however as you undoubtedly know crucial to this step is to have a surgeon make incisions where grafts can be placed, which does not happen at the clinic which means Gravediggers assertion is untrue. That is the debate, this part about whether graft placement is implantation or incision making is a matter of semantics.

 

Finally this part about implantation being more important is taken out of context. This is Lorenzo's belief and he was saying in the context of the pen implanter.