HAIR TRANSPLANT IN TURKEY: Overview by Dr. Karadeniz

[KO]

I think Results are what matters , we have read about doctors doing the extractions and the Technicians doing the rest .... YET Poor Results , and I have seen at Dr. edrogan the Nurse doing the extractions and YET Super Results , No Patient wants to know who does what ... we all WANT ONLY RESULTS !

 

Soon we will be hearing about 4 - 5 surgeries in one day , and u cannot blame the Doctor as in all the Best Clinics there is a HUGE Rush as More and More People are Feeling Safe and secure with the FUE Method as Opposed to FUT , which even I get Scared of !!

 

And once the good tech leaves for another clinic and is replaced by a bad tech do you think you will get good results? When you have the surgeon doing it, you know exactly who is responsible. You have to look at the process and the reason for results, not just the results themselves.

[lorenzo]

I fully agree its the final result is an important aspect. This is what I have heard from Italians patients that have come to Hasson and Wong.

 

1) Doctor would only take cash. If you paid any other way they would charge you a surplus which I believe was 20% or more. They ask the patient to either carry cash or have the money waiting for them at a type of western union for the patient to pick up. Therefore the operation is considered a cash deal and there is no receipt or no legal paper to protect you in case something went wrong. I am unsure of the law in Turkey but in Italy it is a criminal offence if you do not get a receipt.

2) The doctors was not in the room and the extraction and receipt sites were fully done by the techs.

3) One patient stated that some techs learn from the best doctors and open their own clinic. All they need to do is use a doctor to sign papers and they do everything themselves. Many times the doctor is not only in the same building but not even in the same city. This was stated by an Italian patient that for 5 days never met the doctor and when he asked he was told he was on vacations. He ended up having very little growth.

 

Of course I only hear the horror stories because patients that are happy do not go anywhere else.

[payens88]

So after all this..

we shouldn' t go to Turkey because there aren t clinic that do transpant with doctors

[1966kph]

There are 2 recommended here and I don't know how many others maybe Dr karadeniz could answer your question.

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

It is not ethical for me to try and list Turkish doctors who do the operations themselves.

I will probably leave out 1 or 2 and if I list them it may seem that I favour some over the others.

Ofcourse I do favour some over the others but I can't say that here.

I believe it is the responsibility of each patient to ask their candidate doctor which parts of the operation he is going to perform and which parts the techs will do. The doctor can't fake the patient as the truth will soon be evident.

I think patients don't have the right to complain, if they don't even bother lifting their heads up and ask the person drilling their heads, who the person is and what his/her profession and licence is. It is very common in Turkey that no one actually bothers asking.

However there is a clear indicator of who is going to do what, which usually applies.

If the price of the procedure is 2000 Euros or lower, you should know that there is going to be no doctor with the hand piece.

Another indicator is the number of patients operated at the clinic per day. There is only one clinic in Turkey where doctors do the operation and there can be multiple procedures done per day. Other than that, you can assume that multiple operations per day means technicians.

Another strong indicator is aggressive internet marketing. Only technician clinics with high profit can afford this. If you are frequently seeing internet adverts, you are faced with technicians. Boutique doctors clinics need to be found by the patient.

[1966kph]

Thanks for your input Dr.

Are there to your knowledge any clinics in turkey were it is just technicians doing the work that are producing consistently good results ?

Have a good day

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

Thanks for your input Dr.

Are there to your knowledge any clinics in turkey were it is just technicians doing the work that are producing consistently good results ?

Have a good day

 

Ofcourse not. It is totally impossible.

Actually I honestly think that the technicians clinics can not produce a single good result, forget about good results consistently.

By the way I am not talking about before and after photos which give little information about the result. I am talking about live patient evaluation. By photos, many below the average results can be presented as good. But when we actually get to see the patient live, with adequate hair length, we can touch and comb through the hair and see many flaws that could be masked by simple photos. It is impossible for a technicians procedure to pass this live test.

[1966kph]

Thank you for your response Dr karadeniz.

Now you've said there are somewhere in the region of 500 so called clinics is that correct?

And I am assuming you have not seen results from all 500 so you are tarring them all with the same brush are you not?

Your sweeping statement might be for all I know correct but it is without doubt lacking any credibility.

If we were talking about half a dozen clinics and you had seen results from them all that would be different.

You would not want us to base our opinions about you on the linked case earlier in this thread were you admitted to giving someone a very poor result would you?

If we are to take your word as being fact please only tell us they are fact if you know for certain they are.

So we cannot take this as true even though for all we know it might be correct.

I think we would be hard pressed to get a Dr to be totally impartial as basically its admitting that its not just them that has the skill set to do a first class hair transplant

This is precisely why it could be sorted once and for all if a technician led clinic would apply to be prescreened and evaluated to see the standard of their work that's of course if said clinics wish to be evaluated

Thank you and have a nice day

[KO]

But there is literally no reason for a technician clinic to be screened. There are good doctors out there who haven't been recommended, so I see no reason to start hunting for technician clinics. I'm sorry if I'm being weird but I'd like a surgeon to do a surgery on me.

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

Dear 1966kph,

Ofcourse I haven't seen results of all 500 technician clinics. More than half of these even don't have a name and place. I am making my assessments on principle. I am not in competition with them either. The patients that choose surgeons like me and these clinics are different.

On the other hand I am curious what your motivations are in writing such a long message trying to protect technicians clinics. Normally members who do this are either representatives of them or a candidate patient planning to go to them. I understand this and don't criticise it. I also don't want to be involved in such arguments as I don't see any benefit in them. I am just trying to give information. What you do with that information is up to you.

[1966kph]

Hello Dr and thank you again for your reply.

My one motivating factor is the vast majority of these clinics i believe will be doing tremendous harm to a massive amount of people i think we can agree on that.

And i think it better that people who have no other alternative other than to go to these clinics at least be pointed in the direction of the best of them.Now is that a bad thing? I do not..

I am not a representative of any clinic i am a uk citizen and i would say a norwood 6 whos been looking to do something about my hair loss for some 15 years.

And the fact of the matter is i would rather be bald than take a leap of faith and go to one of these hair mills to be disfigured like so many obviously do.

If in fact there are good clinics within the category of tech led clinics i might well end up going to one but seeing as how my desperation to cure my hair loss has subsided somewhat with age i dont know for sure if i will ever undergo a ht.

Why does your country allow this practice to exist in the first place ?

Its ridiculous, alarming, wrong

Thank you once again

You have a nice evening

[1966kph]

Thats the point KO its your choice no one elses.

[KO]

Why don't you just go and see a legitimate clinic? If you are a class 6, with a limited donor like that you should only be looking at the very best...a nw2 could take a risk and still have donor left over...

[1966kph]

I'm not prepared to to see my kids go without just so i can have some hair this is one of many reasons why i have not done anything about it.

If i had unlimited funds or even just enough to undertake ht surgery without it having any impact on my loved ones i would of done it years ago.

I feel so sorry for the countless cases that just want hair on their head that end up in the terrible situations they do just because of someone elses greed.

The extremes of human nature never cease to amaze me.

Have a good day

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

As I mentioned earlier it is forbidden by law for technicians to not only extract grafts but to take part in HT procedures. In fact the laws are too strict. It allows only plastic surgeons and dermatologists to do HT procedures. Other physicians are not allowed. Only nurses are allowed to place grafts and other physicians are practically like nurses. So, I think there are two aspects of the discussion on how technician clinics should be seen;

 

The first aspect is about medical competency. Although I believe HT procedures should be seen no different than any other surgery, it seems this debate will continue.

 

The second aspect is about law and licensure. In countries like Turkey where technicians are totally forbidden to take part in hair surgery - which I think is too strict - we are also talking about accepting companies breaking laws, which I suppose would be an unacceptable thing from whichever aspect we see it.

Edited November 20, 2014 by drkaradeniz
mistype

[1966kph]

Dr karadeniz good evening.

Why have you decided to post this here when you are obviously replying to points raised in another thread.

Please can you post in the thread to which this is referring to.

Thank you

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

Dr karadeniz good evening.

Why have you decided to post this here when you are obviously replying to points raised in another thread.

Please can you post in the thread to which this is referring to.

Thank you

 

Dear 1966kph,

 

This is my thread and what I am sharing is directly related to my topic.

This topic is about HT in Turkey and the main subtopic is technician clinics.

As I mention before there are about 500 of these so why should this general information be referring to one of them?

Looking at your recent activity I can see who you are getting at, or perhaps even representing, but I have no intentions of being involved in a one to one argument with a particular clinic or its representatives, as there are no benefits of this for members reading it.

I can't help but ask what your motivations are in advising me where to post my opinions and the reason why you seem annoyed reading my post.

There could be only two points where you disagree: either you like technicians doing HT procedures and that is fine, you have the right to think that way. Or you know something different than I know about Turkish laws, which I would be surprised but ready to hear.

I see no problems here.

[MikroFUE]

Only nurses are allowed to place grafts and other physicians are practically like nurses.

In countries like Turkey where technicians are totally forbidden to take part in hair surgery

 

 

You say technicians are totally forbidden in one sentence but say nurses allowed to place grafts in the other.

[1966kph]

Good evening Dr karadeniz I hope you are well.

I have far to little intelligence for anyone to want me to represent them.

There is no coincidence that while the topic of the clinic is under discussion you choose not to enter the reply on that thread but this.

Why is that? Its no coincidence that you respond on this thread after its been dead for two weeks.

While you may not wish to get into a one on one but if you are going to answer questions please do it on the appropriate thread and not from a distance.

I have made my position perfectly clear as to my opinion s on tech led clinics which is clear we will always disagree on.

If as I believe you are a man of good moral character if you are to say disparaging remarks about a certain industry you should be prepared to address it head on not were and when you choose.

Do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

You shouldn't stir up a hornets nest from afar then try and distance yourself from it.

I look forward to your reply.

Have a nice day

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

You say technicians are totally forbidden in one sentence but say nurses allowed to place grafts in the other.

 

As a clinic representative I would assume you know the answer to this, but I will state it here for others to learn about it. Nurses graduate from a school that gives them a licence to practice as a nurse; they are not technicians. There is no such licence as a hair transplant technician in Turkey. When we mention technicians we are actually referring to a variety of qualifications other than nurses. These could be ambulance technicians, paramedics, anaesthesiology technicians, laboratory technicians, biologists and so on. None of these are licences to work in hair surgery but they are widely used. I believe that there should be a system that trains and gives these people a licence, but the current law only licences nurses.

[Ali Emre Karadeniz]

Good evening Dr karadeniz I hope you are well.

I have far to little intelligence for anyone to want me to represent them.

There is no coincidence that while the topic of the clinic is under discussion you choose not to enter the reply on that thread but this.

Why is that? Its no coincidence that you respond on this thread after its been dead for two weeks.

While you may not wish to get into a one on one but if you are going to answer questions please do it on the appropriate thread and not from a distance.

I have made my position perfectly clear as to my opinion s on tech led clinics which is clear we will always disagree on.

If as I believe you are a man of good moral character if you are to say disparaging remarks about a certain industry you should be prepared to address it head on not were and when you choose.

Do you agree or disagree with the above statement?

You shouldn't stir up a hornets nest from afar then try and distance yourself from it.

I look forward to your reply.

Have a nice day

 

First of all this thread is about a very important topic that will never be dead. I have the right and will from time to time add information related to the topic in order to inform the public. I don't see why you are annoyed by this and you are admitting that you are hoping that the thread dies as soon as possible. I also don't see why you are insisting that I should share my opinion on someone else's thread. Since you are insisting so much, I will let you know that it is not just that I don't want to trigger arguments on others threads, but the doctor you are referring to personally called me some time ago and asked me not to post on threads related with him! I promised him not to do that so I am just keeping my promise since then. I hope this sounds satisfactory.

[1966kph]

Good morning Dr karadeniz i hope you are well.

Your first post yesterday was obviously in response to another thread and as you wish will go unmentioned and the only point i probably tried to put to you badly was.

Why answer it here and not there?

You have now answered this by saying you want to keep a promise made,fair enough.

But the fact of the matter is that you are doing it but here rather than there.

If as you say it is illegal for anyone other than a physician or nurse to do any part of a ht can you please clarify whether you have or have not under taken part in anything that would be deemed illegal within the Turkish ht industry?

Eg had technicians done any part of the procedure ect ect during one of your procedures?

The reason i ask is to ascertain as to whether your holier than thou attitude is justified. [ I mean to cause no offence by this and i hope non is taken ].

Above all i think you should be on to the relevant authorities to up hold the law.

As for me being annoyed no i'm just a person that thinks there should be two sides to a augment that contains each persons points and be done in the appropriate place.

And your point that i may have some connection with said clinic does not bother me in the slightest either as there is so much bull attached to the hair loss industry your right to be non trusting.

You have a nice day

[Number47]

I don't get this whole thread is it meant to save as from most of the Turkish clinics or point out how Dr. Karadeniz practice is so much better than anyone else? If thats the case I don't understand the difference of Dr. Karadeniz clinic to the others? You do all the extractions and placement yourself doctor or nurses while the others use unqualified technicians?

[Number47]

Dr karadeniz good evening.

Why have you decided to post this here when you are obviously replying to points raised in another thread.

Please can you post in the thread to which this is referring to.

Thank you

 

Whats the other thread can you post a link cause i don't understand what is going on with all this drama and different threads

 

Edit: Never mind i understood which one you were talking about

[Yonex]

Ofcourse not. It is totally impossible.

Actually I honestly think that the technicians clinics can not produce a single good result, forget about good results consistently.

By the way I am not talking about before and after photos which give little information about the result. I am talking about live patient evaluation. By photos, many below the average results can be presented as good. But when we actually get to see the patient live, with adequate hair length, we can touch and comb through the hair and see many flaws that could be masked by simple photos. It is impossible for a technicians procedure to pass this live test.

 

Fully agree with your point about photos doctor, I see too many results posted on this forum, from patients and clinics, with inadequate photo presentation, many use tricks such as certain lighting to improve a result, flash photography can be very misleading for example as can the angles of photos taken.

 

Its certainly a minefield for a novice to log on here , there just isnt enough consistency in photo presentation and many people are fooled into choosing one clinic over another as a result