Senior Member scar5 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yeah, I wouldn't say marketing tactics and results go hand in hand. I think AC and GLI, which both, by the way ended up in a legal fight because of GLIs search engine tactics (using ACs name to direct traffic to them ) and which GLI lost, now have a common enemy in the name of the name of HIS which has a slick web presentation and a global reach with it's offices opening everywhere. The boss has a white hair plus grey ink combo that looks pretty damn good. I wish GLI would pay more attention to showing scars properly before and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 13, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 I received an email from Good Look Ink last week saying they are going to be featured on Good Morning America this month and that I had better book now because after the show they will be booked up for six months. It sounds like another high pressure sales pitch to me. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 WOW, I knew that AC sued GLI over name infringement or something, but didnt know the details.Search engine manipulation, That is pretty scandalous of GLI. Yea I got that same email from GLI about good morning america. Ive been recording it daily-b/c they dont know when it will air- to see how it comes out. Im still not sure about any of these companies but I only hope that I made the right choice. I still havent heard back from GLI about the touchup price guarantee, but if i dont hear anything by tomm afternoon I will call them. Yea HIS was my original choice, but since they have opened so many clinics and train so many techs, quality control may be an issue. The gallery pics for HIS look good, but when I watch their videos it just looks like pencil shading on bald guys. I really wanted to like their results b/c they are the originators of this process, and they seem to want to keep their clients in the loop even years after the process, but when I watch those videos the results all look so fake to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Like I said before, I find negatives in all 4 of the top providers- NHI, GLI, HIS, and AC-(the worst by far in my opinion) and I am just trying to go with the lesser of the evils, and chose the place I think has the best results. It sucks that none of these places have really been all that helpful in answering ALL of my questions. Some questions when you ask them, they dont answer them completely or at all, and give me the feeling they are hiding something. I just have no experience dealing with a business that offers a product that im interested in, but refuses to be completely forthcoming.I feel like they are afraid to answer questions honestly. Maybe these are red flags that I should pay attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 13, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Why don't you consult with Dr. Rassman in Los Angeles? He is the only coalition doctor who provides the service. I may consider him. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yea I may try NHI for a consultation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted April 13, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Guys, it won't help any, but just to dispel the myths that propogate from the combined efforts of NHI, HIS, GLI and AC 1) Scalp hair simulation with tattoos is NOT something relatively new 2) HIS are NOT the pioneers of it 3) Rassman is/was NOT the first and only medical provider 4) there aren't options outside our HT world Dr. Alvaro Traquina published a paper in the journal, Dermatologic Surgery, Vol 27, Issue 2, p 123, Feb 2001, entitled, "Micropigmentation as an Adjuvant in Cosmestic Surgery of the Scalp" . It is easy to get hold of it on the web. He did retrospective review of 62 patients he treated for micropigmentation between 1993 and 1999. His technique and goals were slightly different; mainly in the sense that the objective was to provide a dark background to grown out hair. Other differences; 1) Used metallic oxides rather than water-solubles (-less fade, poor laser response) 2) He used tones like browns etc. 3) He started with three pin and moved steadily towards more needles, even up to 14 and 18 cluster needles 4) He set the depth to 2mm and aimed to go deep in the dermis Among his conclusions, 1) tattoos fade. It's official, any BS they tell you is contrary to this fact 2) scalps often fade even faster than other skin areas 3) Scars need more pressure to take the ink 4) Micropigmentation helps flatten scars because it breaks up the tough tissue 5) For the first run a 'scattered' approach is best 6) Don't mess with scars until they are matured 7) Most of his patients were more than happy (duh ) It's true that people have been simulating hair with tattoos for many years before HIS and NHI etc., I know it is pedantic and petty, but being obsessive let's say it is Just for the record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 13, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Is Dr. Rassman and NHI the same thing? NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 13, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Scar5, Great info! Who are some of the other doctors that perform SMP? I am also surprised to see people had this done almost 20 years ago! I’d love to see pics of these people 20 years after the procedure. I think that would settle a lot of skepticism here. None of us want to make a mistake we can’t reverse and will regret so due diligence is crucial in a situation like this. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yes Dr Rassman's New Hair institute, but he doesn't do the smp but rather his associate Dr Pak does all SMP procedures. Yes, awesome info Scar, and yea that would be a huge help for lots of men who are thinking about doing this to be able to see pics (current) of those guys who had it done in early-mid 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 As my May 1st date approaches, and April 17th gets closer (14 days before procedure- deposit lost if not cancelled by apr 17th) I get a little more nervous about this. My biggest concern with the place GLI that I chose, is that they only offer the one day of smp- which may take up to 8hours- and then a following morning follow-up evaluation which they say is for the technician to look with fresh eyes at the work she did and see if you are both happy with the work. my concern with this is: 1) every other clinic say they need to do at least two different sessions with a one or two day rest in between for recovery? 2) what if my skin's acceptance or lack thereof, of the pigments does not surface for a couple of days, and by that time im 1200 miles away back at home? 3) is this just a tactic to get you out the door quick before the client can notice things they want to change that can only be noticable after some healing occurs? When I asked my consultant why they only offer this one session with a follow up eval next morning, he told me that the only thing to be concerned about is the finished product and not as much the process- I am paraphrasing so not quoting exactly how he responded- but my point is that I will get no real answer to this question from the source Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 13, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 13, 2012 Jholcollege11, I'd be nervous too which is why I did not continue to talk with the folks at GLI. I had a phone consultation with them and a personal consultation in their office. Maybe if we can get some pics of these people that Scar5 mentioned that had the SMP done in the 90's and it looks good that will put our minds to rest. If you do decide to go with the SMP with GLI I would pay by credit card so you can dispute the charge if by chance something doesn't go right. It is in their best interest to keep you happy because with the power of the internet today their business can be destroyed. GLI was very good at avoiding questions when I was there. They did answer many but not all. If you are feeling unsure the best bet is to sit on it for a while. They aren't going any where. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yes Timetodosmthng , good idea about credit card. Yea I suppose I kind of rushed into this whole thing. Still it has always been difficult for me to turn back once I set my mind on doing something which has been as much of a weakness as strength for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hey has anyone seen the movie- In Time (2011)- starring Justin Timberlake? If you see the way he has his hair buzzed in that movie, that is exactly the look Im trying to achieve with smp. Also his hairline is not too straight but much more natural looking. I wouldnt mind at all having that look the rest of my life, the ladies seem to like him pretty good with buzz cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 what if my skin's acceptance or lack thereof, of the pigments does not surface for a couple of days, and by that time im 1200 miles away back at home? Then you will have to be Mr. SuperCool and calmly arrange to go back to them, which is probably what you will do eventually anyway. In fact, I would guess you would want to go back anyway for touch ups, and I don't mean with a scowl on your face, I mean happily go back unless it is a disaster. You know, thinking about GLIs drive-thru policy, I don't think it is as bad as it seems. I mean, it is a compromise for sure, but I agree with them when they say focus on the result (although I concede it is a handy excuse to get you to shut up) To 'do it right' knowing what we know, it would involve flight and accommodation costs, down time etc., far in excess of the actual cost of the procedure. I guess the usual 'bait -and - switch' applies too. Bait = Welcome, you'll be in and out in no time, not like the others, that require you to stay for weeks!. Switch = Now that you have arrived, (and paid) allow me to tell you that this procedure will only get you 2/3rds of what you ultimately want. Just be cool, cause you'll look great. I mean what else they gonna do up in Minneapolis? No one's gonna stay in a hotel out there for three weeks! The next-morning touch up, I suspect has less to do with your physiological response to the ink, and more to do with correcting technical or artistic hits and misses from the perspective of the technician (not a bad thing at all) and then you can go away, wait a month, re-assess, and trust me by that time, you will know every knook and cranny of your scalp, and take it from there. So I don't think it is so bad. It wouldn't rule me out of going to GLI. TTDS yeah, I have no idea what happened to Dr. Traquina's patients! Or whether they are still happy. Good point though. I'm gonna keep looking into cosmetics and scalp stuff though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jholcollege11 Posted April 14, 2012 Share Posted April 14, 2012 Good advice and perspective Scar, thanks! Yea I agree that the one-and-done deal may not be the worst thing. I know they are not going to give away any secrets or details about the pigments or needles, so they have to rely on selling the final outcome (results) for their sales pitch. After having my consult with Darren at GLI, my confidence in them was sky high. The guy is just really impressive to me and he did give me an answer to most of my questions, and was very up front and blunt about the 2 questions he was not able to answer. It is tough to not be skeptical as the date approaches. My mind just keeps going over all of the similarities and differences they have with other providers. I even started doing the HIS hair forum to learn some about their results. Then you go on alot of these forums and people tell you "you are gonna regret this, I promise you..just wait youll see...this is the worst idea ever"- and when you ask them what they are basing these opinions on they tell you about all of the body tattoos they have, LOL- but it still gets in my head. One of the biggest selling points for me is their(GLI) desire to really get their name out there on big national platforms, and to me this shows a great deal of confidence in the service they provide. I even called the BBB in their area just to double check that there have been no complaints, and there havent been any. They responded to me today about the touch ups or enhancements as they call it- right now touch ups are just under $200, and they cant guarantee that this price will remain the same but they said they would imagine that if anything, the price will go down but idk. They really stress that the client shouldnt go into this thinking they will need enhancements, which is pretty bold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 TTDS yeah, I have no idea what happened to Dr. Traquina's patients! Or whether they are still happy. Good point though. I'm gonna keep looking into cosmetics and scalp stuff though. Thanks! Please keep us posted. My plan was to do something in July with SMP. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 Thanks! Please keep us posted. My plan was to do something in July with SMP. I will be sooner than that. My biggest concern with SMP now is in one word - BLUE! I can deal with blur I can deal with fade But having a blue head?? How do we know what color it will be, especially if the inks are 'special formulas' ? (which of course they are not) We have to crack open some inside information on the ink supply of it. I guess we assume they know much more about ink than the consumers do and can stay one step ahead, but it would give me more confidence to know what inks they are using and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member azazelgs Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 (edited) In short, HIS-Helmet Hairlines, requires very short cut and nearly a white head. GLI-Good hairlines, seems like they achieved the 3D effect more than other companies, bad sales approach, doubts about doing it in one procedure. NHI-Best hairlines, best reputation , they have a lot to lose if something goes wrong with the procedure so most reliable, can give you good ideas about combining FUE/SMP, SMP work is not so impressive. All in common?? BLUE color! Yes scar, I totally agree with you. Since there is no one that has this for 10+ years , we will never be sure about this. ps: Let me tell you about my HIS forum experience. I was a member for two years and a regular poster and there is a guy who had his procedure. He always tells how happy with his HIS experience and his result but his head looked terrible in my opinion. I told exactly " I don't want to be offensive but this is one of the worst result i've seen. I can't believe how you can happy with that." Than, bam. I got suspended. Edited April 14, 2012 by azazelgs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 " I don't want to be offensive but this is one of the worst result i've seen. I can't believe how you can happy with that." Then, bam. I got suspended. Ha..what a surprise! That was harsh telling the guy it was the worst you'd seen. People will ask, "What's this dude's point...telling a guy that...what's he gonna do about it...etc." But the forum is more for the customers of HIS to comfort each other rather than providing a medium for objective criticism of SMP. Anything critical is swiftly scorned. I haven't read much of it but I noticed a poster being critical - a payed up customer, saying he wasn't 100% about something or another and he was quickly warned that those sorts of issues don't belong on the forum and should be directed privately at the directors. No big deal. But the color thing is brutal. Obviously this generation of SMP isn't going to try to match your grown out hair tones, instead it is just black that fades under the skin into a vague greyish/blue. i don't have a comeback line for any guy that says to me, hey your head's blue man, is that a tattoo? The dishonest clinics say, "na,, it will never turn blue". The honest ones say, "Yeah, well SMP is not for everyone" One thing I notice is that the blue hue is immediate in certain light, not something that is a result of a tattoo being warn out. And it is only in certain light. One thing about the forums and focusing on one aspect of it all is that we can obsess with detail and lose sight of the bigger picture. Many people with SMP feel satisfied when clearly they look ridiculous. We can say, well, that's all good because it is the personal happiness is what counts, but really, it is the loss of objectivity. I know I am in this kinda bad funk myself where you always think, just one more step and I'm done, just one more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 I've only heard people talk about the ink turning blue which I assume means it is black ink for people with black hair. What about those of use who don't have black hair? I have auburn/strawberry blond hair. What could happen with that color? I'm told my color would be no problem to match. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member scar5 Posted April 14, 2012 Author Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 TTFS, My guess is this. They won't match ur grown out hair. They"ll say something like "hair underneath the skin appears the same color in everyone and then give u a light black. They basically use a black vs grey scale I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 GLI told me they could match any color except platinum blonde. My impression from our conversation was that they matched the color of each individual's hair. I'd need to investigate that further. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 Here is a message "Jotronic" from Dr. Hasson's office sent me. Regarding the tattooing option, forget about it. The bleeding out issue that you think might not be such a big deal will be a big deal even with hair on your scalp. You don't want a blue scalp. I've seen it on a guy that had hand and it ain't purty. The blue scalp was very visible under the hair. If you want to consider anything remotely similar to a tattoo then you shoud consider a temporary micropigmentation. I've seen the results from several companies now and when I was in Italy last month I met a woman that , in my opinion, offers the most realistic option available and it is temporary so if you don't like it you don't have to live with it. It lasts for up to two years and she can customize the color for you. She speaks about three words of English but her partner is marginally more proficient with English. Her clinic is called Beauty Medical Milano in Milan, Italy. I've seen the work and it's probably the best I've seen to date. __________________ I am employed by Hasson & Wong as a patient educator. My opinions are my own and might not be that of Dr. Hasson & Dr. Wong. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Time to do something Posted April 14, 2012 Senior Member Share Posted April 14, 2012 I think we already discussed the possible limitations with this but I thought I'd post it here for anyone who hadn't read it on the other thread here. NW5 Dr. Epstein July 4, 2007 2520 grafts 471 one hair grafts 1540 two hair grafts 505 three hair grafts 5070 Total hair count Dr. Epstein August 4, 2008 2384 grafts 870 one hair grafts 1150 two hair grafts 364 three and four hair grafts 4262 Total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro November 18, 2009 1896 grafts 760 one hair grafts 852 two hair grafts 288 three hair grafts 46 four hair grafts 3362 total hair count Dr. Ron Shapiro July 1, 2011 1191 grafts 447 one hair grafts 580 two hair grafts 150 three hair grafts 14 four hair grafts 2113 total hair count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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