doctor Limmer and the mega sessions

[sanjayahair]

also does anyone know if doctor Limmer does the mega session and should I consult to him?

[Bill - Seemiller]

sanjayahair,

 

Welcome to our community.

 

I actually just posted to you here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346...641066813#1641066813

 

BUT...as I said...due to Dr. Limmer's involvement with a hostile site, I have some reservations recommending them to anyone until this matter is cleared. It's a very long story...but if you have the time and want to know more...the original thread can be found here: http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/746...861/m/2061037713/p/1

 

Bill

[sanjayahair]

Hello and thank you for the information that you have provided to me. I hope to find the information mostly about mega sessions. I am new to this but I am do not want to be involved in that type of information. I do not know the problems of Limmer and I only intrested in his recommendation of a mega session. I am trying not to involve in the matters and find the useful information. Thank you.

[Bill - Seemiller]

sanjayahair,

 

I understand you are interested in a megasession, but I wanted you to understand why I was not directly recommending two doctors in Texas at the moment.

 

I still think it's in your best interest to travel to find the right doctor based on your goals and expectations.

 

How old are you? What is your hairloss like? Norwood level? What is your family history of hairloss? What do you consider a megasession? What are your goals/expectations of surgery? Can you provide any photos for us?

 

Bill

[sanjayahair]

Hello Bill. Thank you for helping me to find a doctor. I am 48 years old and I dont know of the Norwood scale yet. I need to learn about this because I feel very new to the moment. I dont have any pictures to make available but I plan to put some on the web when I can get some pictures that dont make me look too bad.

 

My hairloss is what is called the typical hairloss pattern. I have very thin hair in the front and had a transplant in India many years ago and it was seemed good but I am seeing poeple talking about the mega sessions. I hear they are similar to 3000 hair grafts or more.

 

My goals of hairloss would be to just look younger and fill in the front and top of my head which is very thin. My family father had the baldness also but he died in some time ago.

 

I am afraid to post my pictures too because I dont like when some people say bad things about the hair pictures of other people but I guess I will have to get better about that so that I can get more help. Thank you.

[Bill - Seemiller]

sanjayahair,

 

The good news is at 48, you are at least a good candidate according to age.

 

Are you on any medication to stop hair loss? Finasteride? Minoxodil?

 

Unfortunately, the typical hair loss pattern you are referring to can happen in one of many ways. Doing a simple search on "google" for the Norwood scale will help you determine more accurately where you are.

 

I recommend reading the following post: "What should I consider when researching hair transplantation?" Link below.

 

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=569...071019713#5071019713

 

Hopefully this will help you a bit.

 

Regarding posting pictures...to give people an accurate idea of where you are, it's the most accurate way of determining this.

 

I know that posting pictures allows the public to scrutinize, however, one thing that I love about this community is how dedicated many members are to HELP people who are seeking. So any constructive criticism you may receive from most would be in efforts to help you. But you will have to decide on whether or not to post them.

 

If you need help editing your pictures so your face is blocked, feel free to PM me with the pictures and I can edit them for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[spoon]

Originally posted by Bill:

 

 

I understand you are interested in a megasession, but I wanted you to understand why I was not directly recommending two doctors in Texas at the moment.

 

 

So are recommendations based on results or politically charged website affiliations? By all accounts the Limmers deliver excellent results. Isn't that what matters most for a prospective patient?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Spoon,

 

I don't believe the word political here is applicable.

 

I believe character and integrity are important. Supporting a malicious website attempting to rob patients of their rights to have a voice regarding the very field he is an expert in (hair transplantation) shows bad character.

 

I have questioned other so-called quality doctors on their ethics which ultimately comes down to character. I've chosen not to personally recommend them when people ask for X or Y reason.

 

Though Dr. Armani, for example is extremely skilled, I don't personally recommend him for 2 reasons:

 

1. Megasession/Densely packed hairlines on extremely young patients (disregard for long term goals of patients in the event of future loss)

2. False advertising (FUE being advertised as non-surgical)

 

It comes down to character...ultimately, what a person is TRULY passionate or concerned about. Dr. Armani appears to be more concerned about the money in his pocket than the long term goal of the patient...shows bad character.

 

If Dr. Limmer continues to support a site that disempowers and sensors patients which also recommends doctors who do less than credible work, then I have serious question about his character. Skill without character is questionable IMO. I would simply not trust someone to operate on me if there is an ethical question, regardless of how many positive results they've had.

 

Of course...this is my opinion.

 

Bill

 

People can choose who they like...but I won't recommend them until this issue is resolved and hear good explanation.

 

Bill

[something]

i have not posted in a long time, but coming back to the site, i am very displeased at what is happening.

 

all the regulars need to step back for a second and think alittle. this is getting to a really bad point, and the tactics are getting dangerous on all sides.

 

please, get away from agendas. and yes, i believe that Pat himself has an agenda, he makes his living from this website, although it is in many ways a benefit for many people, but the politics should be his concern, and the helping should be the forum members concern.

 

this is not a flame, this is an opinion, i am entitled to one, so please use good sense.

[TheHairLossCure]

Bobby Limmer is often sited as the father of follicular unit transplantation. There was a time when he was very cutting edge and, when a mega-session was 1000+ grafts, he did do the mega HT.

 

Honestly, I do not hear much either about Dr. Limmer or his son these days. I would be interested to see what sort of work they are doing.

[Bill - Seemiller]

something,

 

You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.

 

I am, however, stating my opinion and that's that. You don't have to disagree, but there is no need for me, or any of the other regulars to step back.

 

What kind of agenda do you feel Pat has? Once again the topic of money has been brought up. Yes, he gets paid for what he does...but I, and many other members share his passion and believe he is doing the right thing.

 

The whole purpose of this community is concern for the patient. Because I personally would not go to a doctor who was affiliating themselves with a disempowering website, I do not recommend other patients do. Let's be clear anyway...this issue is not yet resolved. I'm only stating that where things stand as of now.

 

I, however, make CLEAR that it is their decision to go to who they want to go to. If someone wants to go to Bosley...I'm not going to stop them...but I will make my opinion clear when asked for it. Nobody is being forced into anything...but if people are asking for an opinion on an open forum...they will get them. It's ok we disagree...it makes the reader be able to make a more educated choice.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[spoon]

Originally posted by Bill:

 

I don't believe the word political here is applicable.

 

I believe it is. So we may then agree to disagree.

 

I believe character and integrity are important. Supporting a malicious website attempting to rob patients of their rights to have a voice regarding the very field he is an expert in (hair transplantation) shows bad character.

 

This is pure speculation fueled by an interpretation that was posted on this site to start the ball rolling. From another perspective, the cost of being recommended here hasn't been disclosed, the cost of being in the coalition hasn't been disclosed, and by extension the difference hasn't been disclosed. This has nothing to do with the site owner making a living and all that. The point is that the information hasn't been disclosed. Much like hair counts, now that I think about it. Where is the outcry about that, I wonder?

I have questioned other so-called quality doctors on their ethics which ultimately comes down to character. I've chosen not to personally recommend them when people ask for X or Y reason.

 

If Dr. Limmer continues to support a site that disempowers and sensors patients which also recommends doctors who do less than credible work, then I have serious question about his character. Skill without character is questionable IMO. I would simply not trust someone to operate on me if there is an ethical question, regardless of how many positive results they've had.

Of course...this is my opinion.

 

It most certainly is. In my opinion this business about 'disempowering patients' is hyperbole.

 

Some of the stuff I'm seeing here lately screams mob mentality to me ... like this situation, and the call to ban a guy for making a comment in his signature about 9/11, which I can't seem to find anymore.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Spoon,

 

This is pure speculation fueled by an interpretation that was posted on this site to start the ball rolling.

 

 

Not speculation...there is history here which you apparently know nothing about...but if you care to know, much of it has been posted recently. Of course, you choose what you want to believe.

 

From another perspective, the cost of being recommended here hasn't been disclosed, the cost of being in the coalition hasn't been disclosed, and by extension the difference hasn't been disclosed. This has nothing to do with the site owner making a living and all that. The point is that the information hasn't been disclosed.

 

Here we go again. I'm not going to waste too much time with circular logic...which is obviously what PerfectFew was doing and now you. The doctor's fees to be part of this community are irrelevant, HOWEVER, if you are really that concerned about it, there has been a post recently by Pat disclosing membership fees.

 

Much like hair counts, now that I think about it. Where is the outcry about that, I wonder?

 

 

There has been PLENTY of discussion about that on other threads. Stick to the scope of what's being discussed.

 

Some of the stuff I'm seeing here lately screams mob mentality to me ... like this situation, and the call to ban a guy for making a comment in his signature about 9/11, which I can't seem to find anymore.

 

 

The only one mentioning banning him was Dr. Feller who has no power on the site. The only one with the power to ban is Pat.

 

Pat recently posted a thread about the accidental deletion of the thread when trying to remove irrelevant posts that strayed from the topic. Read all the threads before making false accusations.

 

You know what? You don't like my opinion or advice I give...then don't listen to it. You are entitled to disagree.

 

You have a problem with the site? Nobody is forcing you to stay.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[spoon]

Originally posted by Bill:

 

Not speculation...there is history here which you apparently know nothing about...but if you care to know, much of it has been posted recently. Of course, you choose what you want to believe.

 

I know a lot of history. Maybe even more than you. In fact I know that the photo circulating as an example of the work of the "disempowering" physician in question is a photo of work done on a patient with at least two botched prior surgeries. I also know that the patient in that photo specifically wanted coverage instead of density. Does that change your perspective at all? Repair patients are a whole different game and everyone knows it.

Here we go again. I'm not going to waste too much time with circular logic...which is obviously what PerfectFew was doing and now you. The doctor's fees to be part of this community are irrelevant, HOWEVER, if you are really that concerned about it, there has been a post recently by Pat disclosing membership fees.

 

Really? Can you provide the link? Thanks. Incidentally the fees are NOT irrelevant. They may not be at the top of the list of what's relevant, but they do have relevance.

 

Much like hair counts, now that I think about it. Where is the outcry about that, I wonder?

 

There has been PLENTY of discussion about that on other threads. Stick to the scope of what's being discussed.

Discussion, yes. Outcry, no. You, in fact, were one of the main apologists in that topic.

 

Pat recently posted a thread about the accidental deletion of the thread when trying to remove irrelevant posts that strayed from the topic. Read all the threads before making false accusations.

 

What accusation? Tell me exactly what accusation did I make? I said I couldn't find it. You obviously spend a lot more time reading posts than I do and it does stand to reason I miss a few. Fair enough. But how is what I said an accusation?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Spoon,

 

Please tell me what point you are trying to make...

 

If you feel how cost to support this site is relevant...what is it relevant to? Again...what is your point?

 

My opinion of Dr. Goertz's after photo has not changed...BECAUSE, the incisions are obviously way too large and creating cobblestoning. I do know the history of this patient and have talked to him a few times back when it happened. However...Pat, myself, and others have a right to be concerned about the quality of the hair transplant. Even if you think it looked fine, others did not.

 

I won't debate with you who has more history...it's futile because there is no way to know. I registered before you...but you could haev been a lurker far before I was here.

 

I do not currently know where the link is to where he posted information about fees...however, you have the same ability to look it up as I do. The information was general, not specific...personally, I don't feel it's anybody's business what a person charges for a service. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Pat.

 

You are right...though others have made a hollar about counting hairs, I have not. I am allowed to have a different opinion than others on a particular topic. IMO, it still remains my opinion that Dr. Limmer should not be supporting that website. You are entitled to your difference of opinion.

 

Regarding accusation...I think I confused your post with "something's" post where he believes Pat has an agenda.

 

Bill

[sanjayahair]

Hi everybody,

 

I dont know of the cobblestoning. I thought the man was getting the reparirs for the cobblestong. For Bill, I am not on the one for to get involved in the politics of the sites. I was only to believe in the doctors work. I thought the doctor Limmer was a good doctor but you tell me he is not. So I wonder if he is only the bad doctor because of the politics or his transplant work.

 

For spoon, I am agreeng that the politics is not a good thing and the doctors do the good work should not be worried about the politics. To make a information site useful poeple should not say the bad things unless they are the patient who has the bad work. I am not the doctor Limmer patient so I am sorry and maybe he does the good work anyway. Thank you.

[Bill - Seemiller]

sanjayahair,

 

For the record, I am not saying Dr. Limmer doesn't do quality work...please don't misunderstand me.

 

This whole conversation/debate was started by my original statement that I don't recommend him at this time because of his affiliation with a malicious website. We have not yet heard from Dr. Limmer regarding his affiliation...it could turn out to be nothing. I was challenged on this which is fine. Not everyone has to agree with me. But my opinion remains the same as I defined above.

 

In summary: Dr. Limmer appears to do quality work, but I question his character at the moment due to his affiliation with a malicious website.

 

But judging from what I've seen of his work (which honestly is minimal), he does quality work. I do recommend researching his name, however, and finding before/after pictures of former patients and judge for yourself the results.

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

Hi all

 

Let's be careful with the whole "agenda" accusation because many times when someone makes that comment it is they who has an agenda.. Pat does not post on all of the threads and we can judge pictures and feedback for others ourselves.. Again, just because someone makes a living doing something does not mean they cannot be objective.. I have never seen Pat badmouth someone just because they are not on the site..

 

I have been on this site for more than 2 years and I have not seen any form of "favortisim" other than people promoting their own doctors who have given them excellent results ( the opposite is true)

 

If any doctor is in questions, post pictures and let the veterens on here as well as the others comment accordingly.. Pat does not post the feedback on here and i'm tired of people claiming someones judgement is automatically false due to the fact they run a business. It is equally valid as your if it is based on evidence and documentations..

 

Look at the facts

[sanjayahair]

Hi everyone. So is to say that the doctor Limmer might be the good doctor. I am not in the one to be for the politics becuase I just want my hair to look good. But I must be sometime to say also that I belive that it is good that the doctors can make the advertisement on the other sites too because it is like this site and everyone wants to make the money. I think this is ok, so the charecter of the man to make money is not a bad thing.

 

For the mrjb, can you please make me understand the agenda because I dont know if I am making you angry or if I am maybe not and you are talking to the other people. Thank you.

[the B spot]

There is nothing wrong with the results produced by the Limmer clinic.

 

I disagree with some of their practices and methodology, but the work they do is SOLID.

 

My irritation bubbled to the surface when I and many others here were led to believe the poster "Perfect Few" was employed by this conglomeration of Doctors (including Limmer) and claimed to be posting "inside information" courtesy of these Docs, in an attempt to tarnish this site in any possible fashion.

 

Since we are on the subject here, I will list my issues with the practices of this clinic, but I reiterate, someone looking for honest, solid, good growth transplantation and unwilling to travel, etc.. is certainly ok going to the Limmer clinic.

 

My issues... More than 1 patient a day, technicians creating recipient sites and a reluctance to transplant anything over 35-40 fu's cm/2.

 

However, I found Dr. Limmer to be a very kind and informative person who I will continue to believe is an up-front honest guy who is a solid option for many patients.

 

In addressing this issues about this site, whether a dollar or 1 million dollars, there is still a level of patient care to be expected, EASILY recognizeable by the membership here. While there is no "perfect" scenario, I believe the good this site does far outweighs any negative (real or perceived).

 

There are obviously some conflicting opinions in this thread, but to answer the question directly--- Yes, Dr. Limmer does good work and I believe does 2000-2500 graft sessions. At 3.00 per graft, his work is a very reasonable.

 

As always I encourage potential patients to refrain from limiting themselves geographically when choosing a HT doc.

 

Spoon-- glad to hear from you again... we do not always agree, but good to hear from you again.

 

Bill-- I understand and respect your decision not to endorse this clinic until the details of their involvement with the other docs is revealed. However, their involvement does not change the solid work they do on a daily basis, so in that respect I simply apprised Sanjaya of the work they perform.

 

Take Care,

J

[Bill - Seemiller]

sanjayahair,

 

Sorry for the confusion brother...

 

You are not making anyone angry.

 

You were sort of caught in the crossfire of an argument between spoon and myself.

 

You are asking all the right questions.

 

Regarding the WORK of Dr. Limmer, I recommend doing a "find" on this forum and searching for "Limmer". That way you will find some posts of former patients (hopefully) and be able to make an educated decision on whether or not he is the one to go to.

 

Regarding his support of a malicious website...all I'm saying is I would not choose to go to him until that matter is resolved...whether or not you care about such a thing is your decision .

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

Sanjay.

 

I Bill is right.. My mail was directed towards Spoon and his comments. Of course, I am not mad at anyone as this is never personal but I feel it is important people be careful in what they say..

 

Look, bottom line.. If you are going to have surgery, do you want a doctor who in anyway shape or form who has an association with something in question?I don't .. Your call though, I would visit the doc in question and see for yourself..

[hairbank]

I agree, JOBI -

 

Let's drop the whole "agenda" discussion and move on. The only agenda here, from us or Pat, is to help those suffering with hair loss. Even if sometimes that means a debate about a particular Doctor's character, performance....whatever, it is all with the idea of "what is best for the potential HT candidate". If that's not your prospective, it should be.

 

something and/or spoon: I'm not going to get into a point by point debate with you. As was mentioned, yes, we all have our opinion and the right to share it. I will say that I think Bill was jumped on unnecessarily. If anyone has a heart for this site and helping others........he does. Take a look at the time he invests here in trying to help. If you disagree with him........that's fine. I guess I was somewhat puzzled by something's post about us all stepping back and that tactics are getting dangerous. I really don't understand but am willing to listen to an explanation.

 

The most recent issue was another hair loss site merely created to bypass patients and have direction controlled by physicians. As I posted before, I liken this to a Car Dealership that writes a review for their own product in Consumer Reports magazine..........would you really believe them if the information was not presented by an unbiased third-party?

 

Pat may run this site........but the results posted here and experiences shared come from the patients........can't everyone see that?? Yes, Pat makes his living from this site.............so what? From what I see, he makes his living creating a site that helps those with hair loss, will not compromise his integrity or that of the site or the Doctors recommended here. I've even thought occasionally he reacted too quickly in removing a physician...........more quickly than I may have if it mean less income for myself.........ponder that for a moment??

 

As for Dr. Limmer, from what I've seen he produces quality work. If he was merely supporting this other site recently for more exposure......Goertz was a friend.........whatever, I don't really care. However, character and ethics are a big pieces of the puzzle for a physician as well. Even if their skills are excellent, if they may make choices which could be considered unethical, we should know. I'm not making any accusations whatsoever but, as Bill, am interested to know Dr. Limmer's stance with respect to the other site which clearly had a hidden agenda that surfaced when put to the fire.

[sanjayahair]

Hello everyone. I really am in not understanding everthing but I am hopeful that the results will make the hair good for me. I also hope that the doctors do not charge too much and the money is still ok with me even when they are to have the advertisng. In my country where I was to come from it is not as easy for the people to get the good transplant and the doctors are good sometimes but dont have the best way to now about them. I am worry a little about the doctor Limmer but I am not sure of the hair results yet. Somtimes it is hard to understand for me. Thank you.

[Anouar]

Sanjay, I had 1000g with Limmer 8 years ago. I live in San Antonio. My results for a 1000g were minimal at best. Although, I didn't get butchered I must tell you that I went through some serious pain during the procedure and afterwards. I vowed never to get a transplant again. I certainly would not go back to the Dr again. He did nothing. All he did was cut out the strip. Everything else was done by the Techs to my amazement. I also have nerve damage in the back of my head to this day.