Secret Weapon?

[NervousNelly]

I have an inversion table that allows an individual to suspend him/herself upside down for a period of time. The primary purpose of this equipment is to aid in spinal problems and to allow for traction of the discal material.

 

Ofcourse when you are upside down it immediately allows for an surge of blood flow to the scalp region. There isn't scientific evidence to prove the theory but I strongly believe that it allows for increased circulation to this region that can only aid in a healthier head of hair. One of the problems with hair loss is a gradual atrophy of capillaries in the scalp and it seems to make sense that the inversion would aid the body in maintaining the integrity of the capillaries and possibly aid in angiogenisis.(new blood vessels).

 

Look closely at Bobmans posts--he uses one. Maybe that was his secret weapon to great new growth. I'm sure the few thousand FU didn't hurt. Just a thought.

[NervousNelly]

I have an inversion table that allows an individual to suspend him/herself upside down for a period of time. The primary purpose of this equipment is to aid in spinal problems and to allow for traction of the discal material.

 

Ofcourse when you are upside down it immediately allows for an surge of blood flow to the scalp region. There isn't scientific evidence to prove the theory but I strongly believe that it allows for increased circulation to this region that can only aid in a healthier head of hair. One of the problems with hair loss is a gradual atrophy of capillaries in the scalp and it seems to make sense that the inversion would aid the body in maintaining the integrity of the capillaries and possibly aid in angiogenisis.(new blood vessels).

 

Look closely at Bobmans posts--he uses one. Maybe that was his secret weapon to great new growth. I'm sure the few thousand FU didn't hurt. Just a thought.

[Guest Cousin_It]

NN...

 

I believe that there is some truth to this. Especially as one grows older. That is the premises a number of these laser haircombs work on, increasing scalp circulation.

 

I too have been contemplating purchasing one of these tables. There seems to be quite a few benefits that one can obtain through their use.

 

Glad you brought up this issue!

[Bill - Seemiller]

Nervous and Cousin_It,

 

I wouldn't count on it for regrowing your hair. Surely there is truth that increased circulation is good for your hair, nails, skin, etc, but regarding regrowth, I haven't seen any evidence in my research that proves this helps regrow hair. Feel free to prove me wrong, however...I'm all for seeing proof of ways to prevent hairloss or regrow hair

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

In my opinion there is really nothing that regrows hair. I guess a few people have some luck with propecia or whatever else provides their placebo but I am talking about slowing down hairloss or keeping hair healthy. Moreover, for those getting HT it might help with shockloss or expedite growth. Probably not but no harm in trying as it feels great to hang upside down.

[Guest Cousin_It]

Guys...

 

Don't get me wrong, nothing regrows hair per se, not even minoxidil or finesteride, they just retard the miniaturization process for a while.

 

There are a lot of other factors involved in hair loss which have not been addressed sufficiently to this date. I believe issues such as the immune system, microinflammation and decreased vasularity, will emerge as possible adjuncts in the fight. In the interim, I plan to utilize whatever protocols have a scientific basis of efficacy.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Don't get me wrong, nothing regrows hair per se, not even minoxidil or finesteride, they just hasten the miniaturization process for a while.

 

This isn't entirely true. Some people, though not many have had successful regrowth with both finasteride and minoxodil, but it is not very common.

 

Bill

[Guest Cousin_It]

Bill...

 

This would be dependent on your definition of "regrowth". I define regrowth as the "continuation of growth following an interruption". I classify the miniaturization process as this "interruption". There must be a viable follicle to build from. The miniaturization cycle must still be active if any agent is to be successful. Once it has died, it is irreversible. No drug presented thus far can work from this level.

 

I myself have always had excellent results with Rogaine, but only if there was something there to work with.

 

Hope this clarifies my take on the issue.

[NervousNelly]

Cousin,

 

Thanks again for your valuable insight. That is precisely what I have read in several journals. There are people that have had great results with certain products but they are still in the miniturization process.

 

So many of us have had false hopes with several products out there but I am a huge believer in what you stated about the immune system and inflammation. This is an interesting topic.

 

I think you should try an inversion table. I am not trying to create false ideas for anyone as that is certainly counterproductive, but it can't hurt. It feels great for the spine and it also does feel good on the scalp. It provides a tingling sensation (scalp only--or I'd never get upright ) and in all the reading that I have done, in theory it makes sense to help nourish the scalp and follicles. This is going to be a part of my regimen with my next HT so we'll see. I think though that it would not be wise to do it immediately post op as it does increase intraarterial pressure.

[JW]

How long after a hair transplant would it be safe to start using an inversion table? Anyone have any thoughts on that? I wouldn't want to do anything to compromise the grafts in the recipient area or to compromise the healing of the donor area.

 

Bobman, if you are out there, when did you start using an inversion table in relation to your hair transplant?

[Bill - Seemiller]

Cousin_It,

 

I agree with you 100%. Based on that definition of "regrowth", I agree with you completely. I'm glad this discussion took place, because now fellow members and readers will be more clear on this topic.

 

Regarding the topic of circulation and hairloss, allow me to post this from www.regrowhair.com

 

"In my opinion brushing your hair, with a special brush or not, does not deter balding or hair loss. In the "Hair Loss Myths" section of the Hair Loss Learning Center it reads - "The idea of brushing the hair 100 times a day to stimulate the scalp circulation is a fantasy. . . This myth stems from the thought that hair loss was due to poor circulation and that brushing or massaging would improve blood flow and nutrition to the follicles. The truth is, bald or not, there's no major difference in scalp circulation.""

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

I did see the link that you sighted and it appears that it might be a quote from Pat?

 

I wonder where he got this info and if it is based from scientific studies or journals. I have personally read some journals where it was sighted the exact opposite unfortunately I don't have the time right now to research those findings and provide the quotes. I'm sure Cousin will come thru.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Yes, there does appear to be some contrasting evidence regarding circulation and hairloss, however, I think we have to differentiate between an actual circulation problem and bald people who have normal circulation. There might be some kind of correlation, but it's evident that even people with normal circulation lose their hair. Now the question is, whether or not people with poor circulation to the scalp can lose their hair as a result of it. What is the exact scientific coorelation? I don't know what it is if there is one at all. But this information does show that even men with normal circulation to their scalp can lose their hair, so it rules out direct positive coorelation.

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

I beg to differ, there does infact appear to be a direct positive correlation to circulation and hairloss. Ofcourse most bald men have normal circulation to the scalp so no one will try to argue that point, but there are several instances that demonstrate that circulation is in fact correlated and possibly a factor in hairloss.

 

Take for example indivuduals that have suffered strokes. Many ofcourse have neurological deficits that manifest into decreased cognitive, motor and sensory abilities. One thing that sometimes also happens is hairloss to certain regions.

 

What happens to many individuals that are undertaking cancer treatment? The chemo ofcourse has adverse affects on cellular activity and because the follicles rapidly divide they are immediately effected. Many of the latest drugs are designed to create vasorestriction that limits bloodflow to the affected cells. One of the side effects is hairloss. Ofcourse that is a rudimentary explanation but for time sake and simplicity you get the jist.

 

With gangrene one of the first symptoms is hairloss.

 

Moreover, Minoxidil was discovered for hairloss as a fluke. It is a vasodilator that was initially used to treat heart conditions. One of the side effects that they noticed was hairgrowth.

 

There is ofcourse several other examples of situations that would directly correlate circulation to hairgrowth, but you can never make the statement that increased circulation will grow hair. As we all know there is no direct validity to make this statement factual.

 

I'm sure that many readers here are aware of these situations in regards to bloodflow and hairloss but just want to reiterate.

[nobuzz4me]

Originally posted by JW:

How long after a hair transplant would it be safe to start using an inversion table? Anyone have any thoughts on that? I wouldn't want to do anything to compromise the grafts in the recipient area or to compromise the healing of the donor area.

 

Bobman, if you are out there, when did you start using an inversion table in relation to your hair transplant?

 

 

 

JW - I think it would not be a good idea to use the inversion table right after a HT during the healing phase. Scar stretching could be a concern I would think. The additional blood pressure to your head is probably not worth any benefit you may receive. My guess is that your doctor would advise against this until you are healed at least a few weeks or so.

 

 

Nervous, Cousin, Bill, I think the concept is interesting and would love to hear from the Doc's on this one.

[Guest Cousin_It]

Looks like you guys are having an interesting discussion on the matter, so I might as well add my 2 cents in too.

 

Bill, I would agree with the statement you quoted about brushing hair and increasing scalp circulation/hair growth, but for one reason only, hair brushing is not a very good stimulant of circulation at the follicular level, only of superficial scalp circulation. The follicular bulb is sufficiently below the surface where it is not influenced much by this type of stimulation. That is why lasers may offer a more suitable method. I know I am opening up a "bag of worms" on making this statement, but there is scientific validilty to this theory.

 

Like NN said, an interruption of normal circulation can cause big problems. Just as DHT is the primary cause of hair loss in younger men and less of a factor in older, I believe conversely circulation is more of a factor in older men than younger.

 

I just think we should fight hair loss from as many angles as possible, DHT, inflammation, circulation, whatever. Leaving one part of the equation unanswered allows hair loss to progress.

 

 

As far as when an inversion table is safe, I would prefer to ask my doctor, but I think after about a month it should be OK.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Very interesting discussion indeed. Thanks for participating. I too would like to hear from the docs on this to see what they think.

 

Nervous,

 

I agree with all of what you are saying, however, using the term positive correlation might not have been the best choice. Trying to retain this from memory, I believe a positive correlation basically means when comparing two things, if one increases, the other increases. Taking away one would automatically take away the other. If my definition is true, then you are incorrect in saying that they are positively correlated. It has already been proven that there are bald men with good circulation in their scalp.

 

Simple conditionals could be looked at like this to help understand this:

 

1. If good circulation and no hairloss then, circulation possibly is a factor

 

2. If poor circulation and hairloss then, circulation possibly a factor

 

3. If good circulation and hairloss then, circulation not a factor

 

4. If poor circulation and no hairloss then, circulation not a factor

 

Now these conditionals aren't taking into consideration ALL the other variables in play like genetics, DHT, etc. So I'm certain it's more complex than I'm making it out to be.

 

So it's possible that there is a correlation between the two (of somekind), but as you said "but you can never make the statement that increased circulation will grow hair" and I would venture to add, nor can you say that increased circulation will reverse the miniaturization process. And if these statements are true, the concept is moot. But I'm willing to see scientific proof of the opposite.

 

 

Cousin_It,

 

I won't pound you too badly on the "bag of worms" you opened up, but allow me to say that lasers have not proven to be effective and is not a viable solution for hairloss to date.

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

"Now these conditionals aren't taking into consideration ALL the other variables in play like genetics, DHT, etc. So I'm certain it's more complex than I'm making it out to be" originally posted By Bill

 

This qoute says it all. The simplistic arguement that I was making was exactly that, very simplistic. I think that we are all aware that there are numerous other factors at play here and this is why the hairloss issue has plagued scientists and many strive to find the solution to make their $$$.

 

When I look at some of the products on the market such as minoxidil, propecia, nioxin, msn, or whatever else has some efficacy, I think "what the hell". As long as the side effects are minimized I figure there is no harm in trying, but don't hold on to any fantasies of grandeur. Even though some of these products do show some promise, there is only a slight edge over the placebo.

 

I like to think that there is some evidence of a correlation of circulation to hairloss. Again I realize there are sooooo many other factors but if there is something simple to try why not. Maybe it is my placebo but you gotta have hope. I am going to make the effort of using the inversion table as another means of creating a better environment for healthy follicles. It also helps with my spinal situation(which is the real reason for the use) so its a win win. Along with another 3000 or so new follicles this year I figure things will be in great shape.

 

This is a good discussion and I enjoy seeing all sides to any arguement. Bill you have a very analytical mind and that helps bring reality and balance to this forum. It helps to keep us grounded. Much appreciated.

[MrJobi]

Hi all

 

As we know DHT is repsonsible for MBP so I would prefer to focus on legitimate treatments rather than reaching for this. If standing on your head increases blood flow and had a positive effect, it would be used for accelerated healing on several ailments.

 

I don't buy it's validity

 

Cheers

[Guest Cousin_It]

Mrjb...Bill...anyone who disagrees

 

DHT is not the whole ball of wax when it comes to hair loss. True it is a key player, effecting hair directly and indirectly, but by no means and end all.

 

I think you should keep your mind open to other factors, circulation being one of them. Contrary to popular belief there are studies that point to the effectiveness of circulatory enhancement, by laser and other means, in improving hair growth.

 

In response to lasers effectiveness in enhancing circulation there are many studies published. When it comes to its effects on hair growth, there is also evidence. I point out this one particular study published in a peer review journal.

 

LLLT and Hair Regrowth

 

 

Laser are currently an approved Medical Device in Canada, meaning they are allowed to make claims of hair growth in relation to its use. So far in the US it is approved as a Cosmetic Laser Product.

[NervousNelly]

This discussion keeps getting more interesting. Thanks for the link Cousin.

 

I don't think that Cousin_It or myself want anyone to start dredging up old snake oil remedies. There is nothing out there that grows hair. However, somethings do show promise and have some scientific backing to increase hair growth during the miniturization process. What might have some positive results with one individual has absolutely no results with others. I think that there is no arguement there.

 

Yes DHT is a factor in hairloss but by no means is it the only one. That is why there are still individuals that are taking Propecia as prescribed with no results. Even though their DHT levels are diminished they show no signs of growth or less hairloss. Therefore by definition--you can't say there is a positive correlation to altering hairloss. What can be stated is that there is a positive correlation to limiting DHT. There is a difference.

 

I refuse to just focus on the pharmaceuticals alone for treatment. The truth of the matter is that although they are successful in many cases, it is slightly greater than that of the placebo group. How do you explain the placebo group having hair growth? That's an interesting topic itself.

 

Mrjb...No they don't use standing on your head for treating several ailments but with regards to several different diagnosis, they will focus on aspects of circulation. For example, with the healing of wounds, they will now use hyperbaric chambers to increase the oxygen and blood flow to the wound site. Remember, as previously pointed out, minoxidil is a vasodilator--increases circulation. There is no disputing that.

 

Achems razor--sometimes the simplest explanation is the best. There is very little that we can do to limit our hairloss and that is a fact. If you are frequenting this site it is probably because you are losing your hair. I have accepted this and am looking for means to limit it and alter it. There is too much evidence to circulation, inflammation, immune system to just ignore and rely only on medications. I hope to slow the process of future loss down, but inevitably I believe that a certain amount is going to leave me irregardless of what I do. That is called aging. Even though I stay in shape and work out my muscle will atrophy as I age. The fountain of youth has not been found to my knowledge. That is why I am seeking out the professional skills of a good surgeon to help restore some youth.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Cousin and Nervous_Nelly,

 

Just so you understand, i am not really disagreeing with what you both are saying regarding circulation being a potential contributor to hairloss. I am just very skeptical of most products, especially when they have not produced any results worth taking note.

 

I think Nervous is hitting the key element here that I think we all agree with:

 

"As long as the side effects are minimized I figure there is no harm in trying, but don't hold on to any fantasies of grandeur. "

 

There is certainly no harm in trying new products to help facilitate a healthy scalp and hair follicles. But I think if anything should be taken from my posts, readers be aware: when dealing with hairloss, use Finasteride and Minoxodil first. Feel free to try anything else you'd like, but let that anything else be gravy, not the main course.

 

Bill

[MrJobi]

hyperbaric chambers to increase the oxygen and blood flow to the wound site. Remember, as previously pointed out, minoxidil is a vasodilator--increases circulation. There is no disputing that.

 

Yes, point taken.. However, we are talking about hanging upside down here. Not hyperbric chambers or drugs.

 

You can make yourself believe anything if you rationalize.. Feel free to hangupside anytime if you would like. i'll stick to the sofa, propecia and minoxidil

 

 

 

C

[Guest Cousin_It]

Bill...

 

My only purpose to make people think. I agree, Propecia and Rogaine is the 1-2 punch, but IMO I would rate a circulatory enhancing product as #3, way ahead of something such as Nizoral or MSM. Just because people do not understand lasers is no reason to dismiss its potential efficacy.

 

 

 

Mrjb...

 

You forgot the beer! BTW...since alcohol thins the blood, couldn't it be considered a way of enhancing circulation, LOL! Maybe this is the real secret. I have a friend that does nothing but drink, his brothers don't and they are balding, he has a perfect head of hair!!!

[NervousNelly]

Mrjb,

 

I get what you are saying and understand fully. We are all able to rationalize whatever it is we want and that is what makes life fun. I guess I have a good imagination.

 

I do put in my time on the couch and also take minoxidil and propecia and will continue to do so. However, I'll also consider other options that multibillion dollar companies haven't mind@*!@!* us into believing work.

 

I like Cousin_its idea of the beer but didn't work well for Homer Simpson, must have been the brand.