Paying for your transplant

[Ailene]

Hey guys,

 

I thought since we were briefly mentioned I would explain our practice. I cannot comment on Dr. Keene's but it is probably similar. I cannot account for the way she handles her policies.

 

Originally we did not charge a deposit. It was only after we got burned twice in one week a few years ago that we had to reevaluate and cme up with a policy. We do not often get cancelations but if there is not a penalty how serious would everyone take it? We only do one surgery a day and this can be a problem. The cancellations generally want to do the surgery so if they give me a couple of weeks notice or if something happens that is unforseeable they are allowed to reschedule without penalty.

 

One guy did not want anyone to know and his girlfried had booked a cruise...... No, I did not think this was a good enough excuse so he did lose the deposit. He did understand and actually has had his surgery.

 

As for payment in advance, call any plastic surgery clinic, they all require payment in full in advance. But if you have to cancell you do not lose this entire amount, only the $500 deposit. The reason for the advance payment is because we generally get started around 7am. Credit cards notoriously decline large amounts if the bank is not open. They are protecting their clients. If you wait until your procedure day and for what ever reason cannot make payment,(and this happened so often we know it is probably a bank issue), we have to delay starting surgery. That can be several hours but it is not ethical to sedate you and then have you sign a financial document like a charge slip.......

 

Now checks, even if you verify funds that does not mean the funds will be there on the day the check gets to the bank. It means it is there when you call. We have also had this happen and it took 4 years for the guy to finish paying us...... We can take a personal check but it must be inadvance so it has time to clear before your surgery. If you are paying by a certified bank check I am not strict about the advance payment.

 

I hope this helps. The policies are not to be mean. They are to ensure things run smoothly the morning of your procedure. The last thing a surgeon wants is an anxious patient!

 

Remember I am not defending.... just trying to give you a different perspective.

 

Ailene

[finnari]

Originally posted by folica:

Sorry to bring this thread back but I guess I have something to say.

 

Although my Doctors payment policy was very lax.

 

Being a business owner & having been burned before, I can understand the doctor wanting to be paid or the appointment would be cancelled.

 

Finnari, According to you, you were advised of her payment policy. No AmX, no personal checks,

Thats no big deal.

 

It sounds like you might have gotten the check in to her a little late.

How many times has a patient made an appointment only to chicken out & cancel?

She don't know if she has a patient until she gets the $$$!

 

The doctor cannot afford to bring in her surgical staff, open the office & not have a patient.

 

I see no problem with the voice message because she hadn't recieved your payment yet.

The call to the wife was probably the only real foul on the doctors part.

 

Finnari, don't take it personal, thats just her policy.

Go to her & get what you are paying for...a great HT!

 

Good luck to you...

Actually her office staff told me it was okay to send the check when my debit card was rejected by the bank (I had a 3000 limit on it which I was not aware of).

 

they recieved my check within a day of it being requested. Suddenly the check wasnt good enough which I agree was in their initial policy but I thought they made an exception for me.

 

It was a mix up of commmunication by the office staff not being on the same page.

 

The point was their reaction was off the wall. Calling me with threats and my wife was completly inappropriate.

 

The bottom line is I am going in with expectations this Thursday of getting a great HT. I hope they learn from their dealing of the situation.

[Jrbrass]

Bottom line here is during your consultation I'm sure you were told that the procedure had to be paid up front two weeks prior to surgery. If you didn't like her policies on the advance payment, then you can always go to another doctor. It seems rather odd to go with Dr. Keene and pay in advance and then complain about it. It's pretty simple, if you don't care for the doctor, what the doctor says or any part of their polcies, DON'T HAVE THAT DOCTOR DO THE TRNASPLANT, GO TO SOMEONE ELSE.

[finnari]

Originally posted by Jrbrass:

Bottom line here is during your consultation I'm sure you were told that the procedure had to be paid up front two weeks prior to surgery. If you didn't like her policies on the advance payment, then you can always go to another doctor. It seems rather odd to go with Dr. Keene and pay in advance and then complain about it. It's pretty simple, if you don't care for the doctor, what the doctor says or any part of their polcies, DON'T HAVE THAT DOCTOR DO THE TRNASPLANT, GO TO SOMEONE ELSE.

 

Your a complete idiot who hasnt read the entire thread. I was actually not complaining about paying for the procedure upfront as much as how the mix up in communication resulted in some unprofessional calls from their offcie to me and my wife.

 

Next time get informed before you sound so stupid.

[Jrbrass]

Judging from your reply, it is obvious that no matter what the result was or will be, you'll always be complaining. You did complain about paying up front, that was your heading. Now you say not as much. Somehow, I think no matter what doctor you would have gone to, you would have had problems. And yes believe it or not, not everyone is going to agree with you. It wasn't Dr. Keene's fault you had problems with your payment. You should have made sure the funds were there in the first place. What is she supposed to do, schedule your surgery only to find out you either canceled or didn't have the funds?? Where would Dr. Keene be if you canceled or didn't have the appropiate funds, she does have a waiting list of people who want and need her services. A payment up front confirms your day of surgery. Otherwise you can cancel or not have the funds and she's stuck with her techs, herself with nothing to do for that day. A very expensive day for her and her techs. So, just because people disagree with you doesn't mean you have to post nasty comments. It's obvious to me you just reading my post and being so combative means to me, whatever you do or where ever you would have gone for your transplant, it wouldn't have been good enough for you anyway. That's what's so good about this forum. It's called opiinions, we all have different ones. Some of us will agree and some of us won't. But yet, we still have the freedom to express it. So, just like in life not everyone is going to agree with you. GET OVER IT. Hopefully, in 6 to 12 months you'll be praising her work.

[pushing 40]

Wow, brass, you're one of those people with the skill to precisely diagnose someone's personality and character from a few sentences on a weblog. I've always admired people with your skill. All you had to do was post an abruptly toned, rude sounding, all caps statement, wait for the obvious and normal irritated response, and then make more assumptions in assailing the person again. Good work man. I bet all your friends and co-workers just love you to death. How about neighbors and family?

[Jrbrass]

Just responding to Finnari post towards me for which I thought was out of line.

[Aquarius]

JRbrassballs;

No your not . Like he said you didn't even read the thread before making your own denegrading comments.Followed by your X-spurt opinion.

That might work in the double wide but not here.

Fin has been upfront before and aft.

He also ran the gauntlet and was the bigger man for it by making the finance concern/lack of tact on their part a non- issue.

Nothing you have said makes any sense at all.

Go rant elsewere then come back with something else.

Your insulted . Good because you are an idiot.

Out of line? Who are you the King of Scottsdale?

I better run.

[Guest]

We are all on the same team guys...

 

Leave the name calling out.

 

Finnari was dis pleased with the Doctors tactics & he expressed that.

 

Jrbtas was comung to defend his doctor as a lot of us will do because we are biased, especially if we are happy with the procedure.

 

Same Doctor, same good results, different view.

[finnari]

Originally posted by Aquarius:

JRbrassballs;

No your not . Like he said you didn't even read the thread before making your own denegrading comments.Followed by your X-spurt opinion.

That might work in the double wide but not here.

Fin has been upfront before and aft.

He also ran the gauntlet and was the bigger man for it by making the finance concern/lack of tact on their part a non- issue.

Nothing you have said makes any sense at all.

Go rant elsewere then come back with something else.

Your insulted . Good because you are an idiot.

 

Dude you seriously should be writing for a comedy show or something.

 

"That might work in a double wide but not in here".

 

Cracked me up and mabe even Mr. Scottsdale can lighten up a bit.

[Guest]

I'm telling you aquarius has a team of comedy writers sitting around his computer feeding him lines!

[Aquarius]

Folica -

As far as I can see he is flaming Finnari. Sometimes I just can't resist bro. : )-

[Jrbrass]

I apologize if it sounded like I was flamming him. I was stating my opinion and maybe yes defending my doctor, the same doctor he used. So, once again I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. We all have opinions here and should be free to express them. I hope your transplant turns out great for you.

[Hairtechnician]

Hi,

 

I just wanted to clarify Dr. Keene's payment policies. Although we did take checks in the past, we now apply a "no personal checks" policy to keep prices low and to benefit everyone. We started this policy because we did have some NSF checks, and rather than charging more to cover nonpayment by the few, we followed the policies of plastic surgeons in the area. We don't do credit checks, and don't want to charge patients for the overhead costs associated with credit checks, bill collections, or bank fees for NSF. We know that most people are honest, but legally, policies must be applied the same way to everyone. We are sorry for any misunderstanding or inconvenience but we think this is the best policy for everyone to keep our prices low.

 

Dr. Keene takes a $1000 deposit per surgery session which is due 1 week after the surgery is scheduled to hold the date. The deposit is transferable to another date in case of personal illness or emergency, or with sufficient notice. Full payment for the estimated number of grafts is due 2 weeks prior to surgery. This payment is refundable if surgery is canceled; only the deposit is held for last minute cancellation. This has only occurred once that I am aware of, and it was because the patient did not call us.

 

Prepayment also prevents delays on the surgery date, due to problems like the bank blocking the payment because of daily limits, fraud suspicions, etc, even when the credit or funds are otherwise available. This has delayed surgery on a number of occasions and put more stress on the patient. That inconvenience is now avoided at least on the surgery day.

 

Sorry for any miscommunication, misunderstanding, or inconvenience. But we think a no check policy is best for everyone in order to keep our prices low.

 

Finarri, glad you didn't let a miscommunication snafu stand in the way of your surgery. We know that patient outcomes are the most important thing in hair restoration surgery, and are devoted to a one patient a day policy. That is another reason for our payment policies. Again, we are sorry for the inconvenience we caused. We know you had surgery elsewhere many years ago, and feel certain you will be happy with the results of your surgery this time, despite this payment inconvenience. Thank you finarri for the trust you placed in our clinic.

 

I am a medical assistant and hair transplant surgical assistant to Dr. Keene

[AndrewYoung]

I just have to comment. As a former bank officer and now a business owner, I think this policy would preclude me from even considering going there. Business practices say something about the ethics of a person. Please allow me to address a couple of points made from a professional knowledge viewpoint.

 

#1 How do checks increase the costs? Check Systems, calling the bank to ensure adequate funds are available and clearing the check (with Check 21 procedures dramatically increasing the speed at which checks clear) all make it very easy to accept a check.

 

#2 Credit and debit limits can temporarily be increased by the bank to allow a large item to be approved. I know, my bank has a daily limit set at $3,000. A quick call to the bank, they verified I was the cardholder and seconds later, my daily limit was temporarily increased. The card went thru fine. (I had the money and could have written a check but wanted the card miles!)

 

#3 Just because the plastic surgeon down the street does it, doesn't mean that you should too (and I really have a hard time believing that this is truly a universal plastic surgery industry practice - damn, there goes that tummy tuck idea). Perhaps the next time you go get your car repaired, drop off your drycleaning or get your teeth cleaned you should prepay. When you ask why you should prepay, they can tell you that they require this because the plastic surgeon down the street does it.

 

#4 - Prevents delays on the surgery date? So are you saying that even after I deposit the money, show up the day of surgery, before you cut into my head, you require me to pay? I didn't pay for my surgery until AFTER I came out of my day session. It sounds like regardless of whether you abandoned the practice of two weeks advance notice, you still want payment BEFORE you do anything. This speaks volumes about your business practice.

 

Requiring someone to pay two weeks in advance? Come on. A deposit sure, but if you aren't going to keep it anyway if they cancel, why require it before services are rendered? Would you ever deal with a roofing company or a car dealership that says you have to pay two weeks before we roof your house or before you can pick up your car? Seriously, this policy is simply bad business.

 

Every business has some credit losses. It's part of life. But for most businesses in America, it's normally 2% or less. If you lose more than 2% of the other 98% of honest, paying customers, you are losing business. From the comments made here, I can see more than 2% that wouldn't go for this. That should say volumes about that policy.

[Hairtechnician]

AndrewYoung,

 

Check Systems does cost. It is not true that the banks will guarantee funds. They did used to do so, but no longer do. We have called the bank to ensure adequate funds and then had the check bounce, and the banks have said they won't guarantee them.

 

Yes, indeed the funds can be increased on the limits, but the banks in AZ tend to open later and the surgery was delayed while we waited for that. And it stressed the patient out.

 

Dr. Keene's clinic is very ethical. If you think a no checks policy is unethical, that does not make sense to me. Dr. Keene keeps her overhead low and passes that on to patients. The overall quality, as well as the price, is what is important to most patients. I believe that those are the ethics that matter. Dr. Keene is known for her honesty and integrity, and has even been given recognition for her ethics in hair restoration surgery at the ISHRS conferences.

 

While you are entitled to your opinion, I personally think it crosses the line to say that ethics is involved in not acccepting checks, or in taking the payment 2 weeks in advance. That is my opinion.

 

Dr. Keene has worked with people who are short on funds. We also do offer patient financing which I forgot to mention in my previous post. But the payment policy has been in effect for a while and we have heard few objections. With Finarri it was a miscommunication that resulted in problems, and we are sorry for that.

 

Lisa

 

I am a medical assistant, and a hair transplant surgical assistant for Dr. Keene. The opinions I express in this post are my own.

[its752]

finnari, I couldn't even imagine being in a more akward situation than yours. Dr. Keene obviously knows at this point that she's getting a bad rap justifiably or not. A third party, for instance, could have heard the same conversation and taken it as her concern only for making sure she gets paid in a way that was promised. Maybe there is some friction between you both. But at this point unless you make the effort to correct it--wrong or right its like making a worker work under duress and will inevitably end up making mistakes, and I don't think anyone here wants to hear that of your HT.

[AndrewYoung]

Forgive me if I said unethical. I guess I mean to say I think it is a bad business practice.

 

The bank in AZ opened later? I worked for a not so large bank and we had a 24 hour number anyone could call to get their limit increased. Perhaps he needs to find a new card issuer.

 

Banks will not guarantee funds but they will verify funds. Also, have you heard of remote capture? You can now deposit your checks without going to the bank. With Check 21 in place, it is pretty damn fast in clearing these days.

 

Again, I apologize if I said it was unethical. I believe I said bad business practices are a reflection of the persons ethics. I should have said CAN be a reflection. It's just that, from my experience in the business world and banking, I see flags among business owners. Those that held to outdated policies and tried to justify it by blaming "the system" also TENDED to also be those that had some other problems in their business (or were just flat out fraudulent). I am not saying that about the Doc. I am simply saying that has been my experience. I simply wouldn't do business with someone that required a prepay for services yet to be completed and I think the good Doc could be losing some income as a result. Of course, it's her decision.

[Guest]

What the hell is the difference?

 

Dr. Keene has a policy, either abide by it or find another surgeon!

 

It is her right to make any policy she see's fit

to operate her business.

 

This has become a bigger deal than it really is.

 

Do you think the Doctor is going to rip you off after all her years in business?

 

The opposite is probably true, she has been stood up before with a team of techs ready to go & a no show patient!

 

There are many goods & services that are pre paid, what about hotels? They want a credit card to hold your room, if you don't cancel & don't show they charge your credit card.

Do you pay before you fly? Yep.

 

If you are serious about getting a HT whats the dif if you pay before or after, you still half to pay!