Caffeine

[Michaellovesnyc]

Interesting article

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/h...0669&in_page_id=1774

[Gorpy]

Yes, interesting, but even with free coffee at work, I don't think I could down 60 cups a day

[nobuzz4me]

If topical, maybe it could have some affect, maybe similar to minox but who knows

[Gorpy]

Actually they did:

 

"Scientists estimate up to 60 cups a day would be needed for significant amounts to reach follicles in the scalp."

 

But I was just joking about it. I know the topical solution is the one they are thinking about.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Just my thoughts...

 

I think it's fair to give the article some credit, however, like anything new, one must proceed with caution. The article states that there may be promise here, but nothing has been proven. There is a difference between effecting growth rates (which obviously was somewhat proven by testing) and regrowing dying hair. Let's give it some time...nobody do anything silly by trying to drink 60 cups of coffee or trying to rub caffeine pills on your head

 

Bill

[Gorpy]

Oops! I was already on cup 7 this morning

[MrJobi]

Let''s see

 

Hanging upsode down, caffine, Laser comb, tea Tree oil..

 

My god, who needs a HT when we have such a variety of legit treatments

 

NOOOT!

 

Stick to what works

 

JB

[Bill - Seemiller]

LOL Mrjb,

 

Are you mocking my regime? I do all this 4 times a day and 10 times on weekends =P

 

Bill

[studentjay]

I doubt this stuff has much of an effect on hair loss, too bad though its cheap and plentiful.

[MrJobi]

Yeah Student

 

So is Sugar but I am not dipping my head in it

 

haha... People will try anything during desperation

 

Cheers mate

[NervousNelly]

Mrjb,

 

Since in the previous post you took a slight jab at my protocol , just slight so I'm comfortable with it, I just want to reiterate what has been said several times.

 

This forum is ofcourse here to help educate individuals on not only HT but also hair care and growth considerations. Definitely a part of that is to help people save money on useless products.

 

I watch you go from thread to thread shooting down every possible alternative to the "big 2" for hair regrowth or healthy regimine. You have your opinion and I respect that-- in fact you might be right--the other shit might be just that, worthless shit.

 

But, just because you have had no results with other products doesn't mean that others haven't. Yes there are very few indivuduals that post results directly due to: laser combs, hanging upside down, hyperbaric chambers, MSM, tea tree oil, shen min, or whatever, but that doesn't mean that they don't have the slightest bit of efficacy. Maybe they are afraid to post for fear of ridicule by others--no offense. Ask yourself the question--How many people have posted here with great results from just minoxidol? propecia? Are they legit?

 

My wife and I have worked for some of the largest marketing firms in the world and I can tell you this--anything, and I will bold that--ANYTHING with the right marketing and hype will sell and people will swear by it. Trust me. What is my point? My point of that statement is that minoxidol and propecia are way over hyped and not nearly as effective as we all would like to believe. Probably the best stuff out there right now but way way way over hyped. Advertising budgets on both when introduced was over $350 million. Oh and what marketing genious--You must continue to take it or any gains will be lost. Damn beautiful.

 

Do you know the value of placebo's? Why does the sugar pill "cure" so many ailments. We put our faith into something and guess what? 50% of the time it helps. Aren't you a bit curious about that? They don't make billions of dollars so therefore will never be marketed and preached about being the end all of cures!!!

 

So I advocate anything a person wants to try that won't harm them, keep them from paying the rent, or whatever. Most are probably snake oils but statistically there is very little difference in a lab between snake oils and the big 2. Oh by the way, statistically we could scew the numbers to demonstrate anything we wanted. Doesn't that piss you off? Hey but I bought into the hype also and still take propecia and min.

 

I look forward to your one liner to call me a fool, idiot, or sarcastic whatever, but until I see your before and afters of what miraculous transitions have taken place with propecia and minoxidol while you head to your 3rd HT, I'll be hangin upside down. Let's all face it, at this point in time if we want more hair seek out a qualified HT physician. The other crap might keep hair healthy and make companies very rich.

 

Where is Cousin It??

[MrJobi]

Hi NN

 

Ironically enough. We are are the same page. I would expect a bit more of a objective approach from a person with such a marketing background( and a PHD). You know how much money and targeting strategy that goes into these product campaigns out there. The supplement companies have been doing it for decades. My opinions ( or I like to call it objective advice) is to provide honest feedback to those people who have been in my shoes.

 

I remember when I was 23 & started losing my hair. It was the worst time of my life and my desperation only exceeded my false hope in products that made claims to re-grow hair or stop fall out.. I tried MANY of them wasting thousands of dollars. They just don't work & the FDA ( who is no hero) cannot monitor them.. Now with that being said, I do agree that sometimes the big 2 are BLOWN out of proportion & you won't see me saying they will give you a thick mane BUT Propecia has worked great for me for 7 years or so and did everything it has claimed. As far as Minix, I don't use it ... Too messy and not worth my time for my situtation but many including my brother like it. They point is they actually work and CAN regrow hair..The others don't .. Period.

 

So that's it.. The bottom line is we are in agreement on many items.. REMEMBER though, people on here are desperate and looking for hope.. I only try to give them the answers which will help them, rather than false hope and an empty pocket.

 

When people post claims on here.. Newbies will try it.. They don't know better ( like me 10 years ago) I will not let them go through what I did ..

 

My friend, my statements are based on scientific evidence, my personal experience, and from the select few on here who are legitimate.. that means they want to help people..

 

If that is wrong in your opinion or anyone else on here... I really could careless because I know I am being just in my cause.. I sleep extremely well at night..

 

P.S. I think you are Waayy of base comparing propecia and minoxidil to the other snake oils out there... Have you ever talked to a hairloss surgeon?? The bests of the best will say the same thing I do... Yes, I am familiar with double blind studies,sugar pill, etc. etc..

 

Remember correlation does not equal causation!

 

I also know those snake oil companies conduct their own studies and manipulate the results.. Have you ever seen some of these infommercials for hairloss i.e. Miss Sherida Devine...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Interesting discussion gentlemen.

 

I don't intend to make it sound like I'm shooting down trying all other products other than finasteride and minoxodil, however, I stand in a similar place with Mrjb, having had experience trying all sorts of wonder formulas and various "worthless" things that I thought could regrow my hair. I stood on the ground for a long time thinking that these commercials I would hear wouldn't lie...boy was I wrong.

 

However, despite my PERSONAL experience, I won't deny the possible scientific evidence that might reveal some potential for various products helping with hairloss. I realize that everyone's chemical makeup is different and could respond differently to certain things than I did. I only wish, however, personally, that I had found a forum like this when I was younger and someone could advised me to stop trying miracle cures and get on the only two products that have been proven to do something. Now, admittedly, there is some over-hype about finasteride and minoxodil, so I hope one doesn't come out thinking that these are wonder drugs, because they aren't...but many more people have had success with these drugs than anything else that I've seen. So...until something is more proven, I won't recommend any of these other products to people. HOWEVER, I desire to remain objective...so typically, when I make a recommendation (seriously that is) to someone, I'll recommend the big 2 and then tell them to go ahead and feel free to try anything else in addition that they would like to see what works for them.

 

So...that being said, I think this is an interesting discussion, and I encourage anyone who want to consider other products in addition to finasteride and minoxodil to see if it will do them some good, to do it...and then I encourage even more for you to report your progress back here, so we can see if it works. Believe me...I'd love for someone to find a REAL miracle cure...and perhaps Caffeine (as mentioned in the article) will eventually be it...who knows.

 

Bill

[NervousNelly]

Sorry to be double posting this in 2 seperate threads.

 

Mrjb,

 

Well I knew I would get a reply.

 

Could your results with propecia be placebo? Possibly the halting of hairloss was going to happen?

 

If you look at my posts I never make claim that anything will grow, stop, or produce healthy hair, but give arguements as to why they might.

 

I also do tell people to try propecia and minoxidol. But I know that millions of dollars have made it "appear" to be more successful than they truly are. Yes scientific studies have demonstrated that they can produce results, but it is slightly greater than placebo in blind studies. That is a fact. Your statement that they are the ONLY things proven to grow hair is NOT fact. We have discussed before that the hair follicle still has to be active and therefore they facilitate further growth and healthier growth. Other products have also done this in studies--but millions of dollars have not been spent to market this.

 

What I don't do is post one-liners shooting down the efficacy of everything out there without providing any evidence other than I tried it and it doesn't work. This is the problem I have with your posts.

 

What about the thousands of individuals that have spent their hard earned money on propecia and minoxidol with zero results? They are out there too.

 

Please understand my point. I do not advocate that all the bullshit out there works, but that does not mean that it might not have a slight bit of efficacy. Possibly it may work for someone and if it is cheap and harmless what the hell. Yes every HT doc will give praise to propecia and minoxidol but some discuss merit in other treatments also.

 

You question my subjective opinion (however it is also objective by the way) because I have an open mind, but I haven't spent thousands on useless products? But ofcourse I don't see the harm if one could afford--obviously you couldn't and now are frustrated about it. I'm sorry they didn't work for you.

[MrJobi]

Nelly

 

Thanks for the feedback.. We do agree on some points but I base my answers on percentages of successes. Successes of mine, other vets on here, and leading docs who are experts. Not the probabilty of some outlandish idea working as you are basing yours on. Your argument basically says " If there's a possibility it's could be valid" I agree to disagree.

 

Trust me , the Propecia stopped my hair loss and regrew some.. How do I know this..Simple, my hair stopped falling in the sink like crazy..AND I started to regrow some new little hair which got better.. Just like many others on here

 

So please tell me what other products regrow hair besides minoxidil and Propecia??? Please let us know so we can try them ??? But when people suggest something like caffine & 60 cups a coffee a day.

 

Dude, i'm sorry but that's not good enough..( funny but not worthy)

 

Nelly, trust me, I could afford to buy these products just as I do Propecia every month but the only differences is the others don't work?? Little to do with the money and more to do with helping others avoid false hope.

 

Search some threads on here buddy!! It is others too commenting about the garbage that's out there..Take a look around at this stuff..

 

I want to help others with proven items.. Look at the most recent post where Bill say

 

"

In all honesty, I wouldn't consider a transplant at this point being that you are most likely just starting to lose your hair and you don't know how much more you will lose. If you aren't already, I recommend getting on finasteride ASAP. You will need a prescription for it and it can be prescribed by any medical doctor, however, I recommend getting a prescription for Proscar if you can and take 1/4 tablet daily as opposed to Propecia simply to save money. You WILL have to cut the Proscar pill, however, since a Proscar pill has 5 mg of finasteride and Propecia only has 1 mg.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Bill

 

 

 

This is a guy who is objective and has had over 7000 HT's .. A veteren who knows what works and what doesn't

 

I would love others to chime in on either side

[nobuzz4me]

Nervous,

 

You bring up some good points, placebo effect, marketing techniques etc. It is good to hear both sides of this. I do think Mrjb is well within reason to make his opinion known on these types of products. To say that he no longer uses a product because he cannot afford it is over the top. Maybe he just doesn't like to throw money away, who does?

 

I also do not think we should shoot down any possible cure unless it is obvious there is no scientific evidence backing these "cures" and they are pure marketing schemes. I would pay extra attention to companies who are doing the R&D and not the ones who just try and capitalize on the trend.

 

I will also add IMO, Finasteride and minoxidil are very overrated. Of the two, I think finasteride is the better of the two, I have stopped minoxidil recently since I could not see much difference. I do believe finasteride has helped stop my hairloss and if that is all it does for me it has been successful, any regrowth later will be a bonus.

 

I think those of us who have been around the block a few times are obligated to inform the younger members on the limited success of these products and what are the real solutions. A HT is the very best way to restore your hair, period. When the miracle cure comes along it will be front page headlines not found on ebay!

 

Good discussion guys!

[NervousNelly]

Hey guys,

 

Yes this is a good discussion but at the same time I don't want it to get at all personal. We are all entitled to our opinions and I respect all peoples opinions whether I agree or disagree as long as there is some provided arguement to qualify.

 

Mrjb- I think that in many ways were are in agreement but ofcourse there are the obvious differences. I personally believe that a HT is the only way to grow hair. Some other products might help facilitate growth whether due to the merit of the product or the placebo affect. Ofcourse the placebo affect is greater with products that have been hyped in the media because the individual has more confidence in it.

 

If I told you that using an inversion table 5 times per week for 10 minutes has drastically limited hairloss for me in approx 2 months would you believe me? Do I think it will grow hair--No. Do I think it will help facilitate healthy hair and aid in healing of future HT--Yes. Humour me--do a handstand for approx 5 min. You'll feel something happening at the scalp (and its not your pride leaving you.) It won't cost a dime.

 

Yes Bill is a well respected individual on this forum but because he tells someone to take Proscar doesn't mean that my arguement for other potential products is void. Have you seen posts from some of the Coalition physicians touting laser combs and hyperbaric chambers? No offense to Bill but they might have stronger credentials.

 

NoBuzz-I wasn't saying that Mrjb stopped taking the bullshit products because he couldn't afford it. What I meant is that by his statements it seems like he might have regrets that he spent the money on what turned out to be useless products for him. I would never and never do advocate that a person spend a dime if it is money that he might feel upset about spending if the product doesn't work.

 

 

Again, I don't want to be considered the snake oil rep but I am willing to try some natural products that show scientific evidence that either they work or could possibly help to aid in healthy management of my hairloss problem.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Hey...I've been quoted...I feel so special .

 

I think this is a great discussion. I have shared my points of view above. I see no harm in trying additional products that might help "promote a healthy scalp" or other things, etc. I just won't put my hope in them. BUT, I do agree that it's important that we keep in reality mode...that finasteride and minoxodil are far from miracle cures...but they are the only things proven to do SOMETHING to combat hairloss! Notice my emphasis on the word "something". No other product has really been proven to do anything regarding hairloss...only speculated that it might. Sure some products say it's proven (like Revivogen...and yep, I tried that too ), but from everything I've looked up, I haven't seen any evidence that anyone's had success in regrowing hair (or even reviving dying hair) with any other product. Finasteride and minoxodil are far from miracle cures...but until something better comes out and is proven, these are what I'll suggest to people.

 

That all being said...I think Nervous Nelly does justice by bringing up these topics, not for the sake of shooting them down, but for the sake of research...hey, he keeps us in the loop about what others are saying...he brings the research to us. So even though none of these things are proven, reading and learning more about them is interesting, and perhaps one of these products discussed will one day become a cure. Here's to wishful thinking right?

 

Bill

 

Bill

[nobuzz4me]

Nervous,

 

Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions, I know you better than that. Keep up the good work, by the way, are you filling in for Cousin as well?

[MrJobi]

Hi Nelly & all

 

It is never personal Nelly.. This is always a forum where we can express our opinions.. Even if I don't agree with someone, they are always entitled to their opinion.. We all want the same thing and that is good!!

 

We all just want to provide valid feedback for the new persons on here ..As far as many are concerned, these are Minox and Propecia which are far from miracle cures but they do have the most validity thus far bases on facts..

 

Hey,if someone wants to hang upsidedown and drink 60 cups of coffee a day to help their hairloss.. Be my guest!

 

However, this hairloss sufferer will not endorse those, or other so called treatments which just don't provide tangible results.

 

Thanks all for the mental jousting

[NervousNelly]

Yes, mental jousting is always good. It allows others to see both sides to the issue and make their own determination from there.

 

I do want to state that most of the regimine that I do follow I would do whether I had a hairloss problem or not. Inversion table is for healthy spine, MSM is for healthy joints, Tea tree oil is a natural cleanse for the scalp Vitamin A & E for skin and hair. I'm not some wigged out nut trying all sorts of BS that promises the world. Pretty sure I'll avoid the 60 cups of coffee daily.

[Bill - Seemiller]

I'm glad to see my friends keeping the peace in the midst of different opinions

 

Bill