Proscar vs. Propecia

[dakota3]

What are the differances? Is one more effective than the other, and is it detrimental to switch from one to the other?

[dakota3]

What are the differances? Is one more effective than the other, and is it detrimental to switch from one to the other?

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Both are the exact same. The doses will be different but not the drug.

[dakota3]

Why is propecia so much more expensive? Is proscar the generic to propecia?

[dakota3]

Is proscar an over the counter drug or do you still need a RX?

[Eman]

Proscar is a prescription drug and you will need to ask your doctor (primary care or dermatologist) specifically to prescribe it over Propecia.

 

Many doctors will not give you a prescription as prescribing proscar (prostate drug) for hair loss is considered "off label". Proscar is exactly the same as Propecia, but a higher dose that you will need to cut. And proscar is a LOT cheaper than Propecia. Merck, the manufacturer of Propecia, knows that men want this drug so literally are trying to make as much money as they can on it until the patent expires.

 

So, try your best to get Proscar as it will save you $$$$'s.

 

Eman

[dakota3]

Thanks! But doesnt Merck also make Proscar? So it's kind of a win/win situation for them anyways. It seems doctors dont care to much these days anyway. They are going to prescribe RX's that will give them the biggest kickback. I dont know about other peoples docs, but for the most part all i have to do is show interest in a RX and my doc is all over it.

[Dewayne]

I think the drug Proscar hasn't been proven (or even tested) to grow hair, and Propecia has. Now, granted they are the same thing but since Propecia has the FDA approval for growing hair they can charge more for it.

 

So, while Merck makes both, obviously Propecia has a much higher profit margin because of this FDA approval for this use.

 

And I'm not so sure doctors get kickbacks from pharma companies. I know they get wined and dined a little, but I don't buy the argument they'll get monetary gains for this.

 

Besides, there is more you have to do with the Proscar: break in into parts, take it 3x a week, have your PSA test doubled, etc. so it's not just exactly the same - even though it is the same.

 

Owning some stock in Merck, I can tell you they aren't experts at making money anyway so I wouldn't even bet they're that smart...

[Dewayne]

Also, one might say "why doesn't Merck just split up the Proscar to make it cheaper, ....."

 

Well, it's very expensive to do all the testing required to prove something will work, thus they are allowed a patent on that particular drug for some time to recoup their enormous cost. If this weren't the way it worked, there wouldn't be much in the way of testing imo.

 

I've got a buddy who works for PPD in Wilmington, NC and that's all the company does - testing for large pharma companies. And they employ 1,000 people plus staffs of Ph.D's attorney's, etc. so it's an expensive business.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Dewayne,

 

"Propecia" is just a brand name. Finasteride has been tested and FDA approved therefore "Proscar" (another brand name) containing the same FDA approved drug is FDA approved by default in the right dosage of 1mg.

 

Many hair restoration physicians will prescribe Proscar instead of Propecia because they believe it is just as effective. I switched from Propecia to Proscar almost a year ago now and love being able to save money with it.

 

Bill

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by Bill:

Dewayne,

 

"Propecia" is just a brand name. Finasteride has been tested and FDA approved therefore "Proscar" (another brand name) containing the same FDA approved drug is FDA approved by default in the right dosage of 1mg.

 

Many hair restoration physicians will prescribe Proscar instead of Propecia because they believe it is just as effective. I switched from Propecia to Proscar almost a year ago now and love being able to save money with it.

 

Bill

 

I agree, as Dr. Cooley prescribed Proscar for me as well. But, nowhere will you see Proscar approved for growing hair.

 

It's like using generic bleach in my swimming pool, instead of the chlorine chemicals the pool store sells that has been proven to kill algae.

 

It's all Sodium Hypochlorite, whether it comes from a $2 bottle of bleach or a $20 tablet of "shock" they sell at the pool store. But, Clorox hasn't done the test (if they were even required) to prove their product could kill the algae.

[Dewayne]

I get it now, the finasteride at 1 g was what was tested and approved, not the Propecia. I just figured it was renamed at a lower dose and tested and approved under that name. Even though it was the same.

[Eman]

I use generic proscar, made by Teva.

 

Proscar, Propecia, and generic version of proscar is all finasteride just different strenghts...just as Spex stated. And generic prescription drugs are monitered by the FDA and have the exact same efficacy as the branded drug. You are getting the same drug at a significant discount from the branded.

 

Anyway, get generic Proscar which is finasteride, same efficacy and everything as the name brand Proscar, cut it in fourths and pay ~$60 for four months versus Propecia at ~$75 for one month.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I bought generic proscar at a 3 month supply at Sams club for 158.00. Thats 90 5mg pills .Cut those into 1/5ths Thats 450 doses.

The same dose for propecia for that many doses would be around $700 .

I just cut them into 1/4ths and take it mon wed fri and have found out through two sets of bloodwork it kept my dht levels about the same.

Actually the higher 1.25 mg mon wed fri kept .

the levels a little lower

If you go to Sams buy the 3 mon opposed to one month cause they give you a nice discount

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

I just thought I would set the record straight-

As a practicing hair restoration surgeon, I do not receive, nor have I (or any other of my hair restoration colleagues for that matter) EVER received any "kickbacks" or the like. Also, in general, those days of "wining and dining" by the pharmaceutical companies are long gone- The best we as physicians today see in that regard are pens, keychains, and the like. Truth is, even the best dinner back in the day never affected my choice of prescription medication to use in a given clinical situation; my decisions have always been based on sound clinical-based medical assessments.

Hope this clears the air.

 

Timothy Carman, MD

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by Timothy Carman, MD:

I just thought I would set the record straight-

As a practicing hair restoration surgeon, I do not receive, nor have I (or any other of my hair restoration colleagues for that matter) EVER received any "kickbacks" or the like. Also, in general, those days of "wining and dining" by the pharmaceutical companies are long gone- The best we as physicians today see in that regard are pens, keychains, and the like. Truth is, even the best dinner back in the day never affected my choice of prescription medication to use in a given clinical situation; my decisions have always been based on sound clinical-based medical assessments.

Hope this clears the air.

 

Timothy Carman, MD

 

Dewayne wrote:

 

"I know they get wined and dined a little, but I don't buy the argument they'll get monetary gains for this."

 

 

Thanks Doc, but I'm on your side AND you left off an important word in my quote.... I administer a 401k for a local family practice here and they get sandwiches catered in by reps. I certainly don't think a doc makes recommendations based on a half roast beef sandwich and chips, and can't understand why some (like my own mother) think they would. Human nature I suppose.

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

Dewayne-

Oh I wasn't addressing your quote specifically- I apologize if I came off like I was responding specifically to your point- I could tell from your comment as a whole that you already understood where I was coming from- I was mostly addressing the comment by Dakota3- it sounded like from his experience he had come to a conclusion that, as you know, simply isn't accurate.

Sorry for the confusion.

And yes, they do provide a sandwich or pizza every now and again.....

 

Timothy Carman, MD

[dakota3]

Maybe not all doc's get kickbacks, but i find it hard to beleive that some will push drugs on you before they "acuratlly diagnose your problems" just for pens. Im sure there are some honest and good hearted doc's out there. It just seems that the inurance and drug companies have more of a say on how we get treated these days.

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by dakota3:

Maybe not all doc's get kickbacks, but i find it hard to beleive that some will push drugs on you before they "acuratlly diagnose your problems" just for pens. Im sure there are some honest and good hearted doc's out there. It just seems that the inurance and drug companies have more of a say on how we get treated these days.

 

Seriously, is that you mom?

 

I know my dad's bald, but after 52 years of marriage surely she's not lurking on here to get him a transplant.

 

I think people misjudge the pharmaceutical company's and assume they are all about the profits. True, just like any business they are trying to improve the value for their stakeholders, but without them we'd still be taking an aspirin for every problem and dying off at 58 years old, imo.

 

I'm sure that most people working at the pharma companies are honest, hardworking people who go to work every day with the idea they are helping people control their cholesterol, pain, a couple conceive a child, or a young man grow his hair back. If I worked at one, I'd be proud of it too.

 

To paint them with that brush isn't fair as I think many of these companies have contributed to a far greater standard of life that we now enjoy.

 

The insurance company? I hear you, but it goes both ways. A lot of people abuse the system, and it seems we all end up paying for it. You can't blame an insurance company for trying to give their customers the best care value for the lowest cost. Sometimes it gets off and isn't perfect, but it's still better than anywhere else.

[dakota3]

Is that a "Your Mom joke"

 

Quote

"You can't blame an insurance company for trying to give their customers the best care value for the lowest cost. Sometimes it gets off and isn't perfect, but it's still better than anywhere else."

 

My uncle has 4 kids, and works 2 jobs just to make sure his kids have health insurance. He pays over $180 a week for this insurance. Last year he fell off of a ladder and hurt his shoulder. He went to the hospital and got treated. 1 month later he got a letter in the mail claiming they werent covering his hospital visit. They say his condition was pre-existing because 2 years earlier he hurt that same shoulder in a skiing accident. 2 days later he received a bill in the mail for over $1500 for the hospital visit. Now if someone pays that much money each week and gets turned down because of a pre-existing condition that to me isnt the insurance company trying to give it's CX the best care at the lowest price. I'd hate to see how it works elsewhere. Oh and then there is my grandmothers RX drugs, but i wont get into that.

Could you explain the mom joke?

It seems to me we've gotten off the subject though! Proscar is cheaper but you'll still need a RX right?

[Dewayne]

Dakota,

 

It wasn't a mom joke. I was cutting up because my mom, who is 72 and in perfect health, sounds exactly the same as an earlier post about the docs getting kickbacks. She gets on my dad for taking the cholestrol drugs and says the drs. are in cahoots w/ the drug companies because everytime she goes to him he's wanting to give her a script.

 

It was more of a "my" mom joke, than anyone else's. Unfortunately, at this time she can out cardio me so I shouldn't be making fun at her expense on here. A couple of your post sound like her, though. Trust me, though, I don't mean that as a bad thing because she also happens to be one of the greatest people to ever walk on this earth, so that's more of a compliment than a joke.

 

But yeah, I got me a script for Proscar b/c it's much cheaper. You have to get a pill cutter though and take it M-W-F. I think you have to tell them to double the number on your PSA test as well.

[dakota3]

OH! Thanks for the compliment then. I currently spend $70 a month on propecia and it's a little expensive. Im definatly going to talk to my doc about the proscar now though. Im sure he'll prescribe it for me. You know... considering he's getting something out of it. LOL. Thanks again

[dakota3]

Thank you!!

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by HT55:

Originally posted by Dewayne:

Dakota,

 

It wasn't a mom joke. I was cutting up because my mom, who is 72 and in perfect health, sounds exactly the same as an earlier post about the docs getting kickbacks. She gets on my dad for taking the cholestrol drugs and says the drs. are in cahoots w/ the drug companies because everytime she goes to him he's wanting to give her a script.

 

 

 

 

In a way your mom is right. Dr's are very quick to put you on drugs for the rest of your life when diet and exercise can fix the problem.

 

As far as then not getting kickbacks well do a little research.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/09/business/09anemia.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120114138064112219.html

 

http://www.mcgowanhood.com/CM/HotTopics/Doctors-paid-to...lify-to-children.asp

 

 

http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=880399

 

You know, speaking of just regular family practice docs; some time ago we had a discussion about M.D. vs. D.O. and it seems a D.O. might be a great option for ones family doc as they tend to take a more holistic approach. I agree with you about that, as my doc will give me a prescription for anything if I ask him. I don't think they are all like that though. And I'm sure he doesn't get a kickback for it.

 

I don't have time to read the articles right now, but with the NYT's history I wouldn't believe them if they said Jimmy Hoffa once committed a crime. But, thanks for the link and i'll come back.

[Dr. Timothy Carman]

HT55-

I read your link. And allthough the story states:

"Federal laws bar drug companies from paying doctors to prescribe medicines that are given in pill form and purchased by patients from pharmacies. But companies can rebate part of the price that doctors pay for drugs, like the anemia medicines, which they dispense in their offices as part of treatment. The anemia drugs are injected or given intravenously in physicians' offices or dialysis centers. Doctors receive the rebates after they buy the drugs from the companies. But they also receive reimbursement from Medicare or private insurers for the drugs, often at a markup over the doctors' purchase price.", it's still technically "money given to the doctors".

So, I stand corrected. I guess I'm just outside the loop.

That said, on topic, I don't believe any "kickback" phenomena occurs in the everyday HT surgeons practice prescribing propecia/proscar.

 

Timothy Carman, MD