Gorpy

Good luck Jagdish, I'm sure this one will turn out great! Gorp

It is much less money. Isn't that interesting? Someone who feels so strongly about something that it takes precedence over money. What's this country coming to? Dr. Keene has many trained staff. She had 6 or 7 there during my first. They could be used to place the grafts. So instead of doing 3000 in a day, she could be doing some 5000 sessions in a day. Dr. Limmer, on the other hand, allows the techs to both make the incisions and place the grafts. So I think the ultra-small session size is for a completely different reason.

Interesting Folica, You are right, doctors have different ways of producing excellent results. I think that "in general" the strip is taken out is smaller sections. So it is very common to take out say a 10cm strip, close it up, then come back and take out another, directly next to it, creating what appears to be one long strip scar.

Good question, but is there really more trauma than taking out the strip in a one day session? After all, the strip is taken out in sections, is it not? When you traumatize the area by taking out one section, do you not go in next to it to cut out the next section? Same thing, just different day. I think what you are getting at is that somehow there would be more shockloss or healing would be somehow impaired. I suppose Dr. Keene would know more about that from looking at her own results.

That actually does not make sense. Doctors take out small strips at a time and the grafts can be implanted shortly after they are carefully trimmed. Doctors (at least the good ones) do not take out one large strip and then let the grafts sit around for over 8 hours.

Interesting points Bill, but let's face it, this is not your average office job. It's artistic, creative work. I understand how you feel, just as others understand how the good doctor feels. Let's just say, it's nice to have choices when choosing a doctor. They are not all clones of each other. They each offer something special and unique. And besides, how would you ever prove something so subjective? Let's just take it for what it is - another option, another approach. Gorp Thanks Folica.

Bill, I thought I just gave a pretty good explanation above. It allows Dr. Keene to continue her hands on approach. She feels strongly about it and so do many of her patients. That's the benefit. I know we have had discussions of the techs doing much of the work, but that's it in a nutshell. We could debate all day on whether her hands on approach is worth it, but I don't think it would lead to anything useful. Read all about it at her website here.

Joe, let's clarify something - Dr. Keene does this. In her case it has nothing to do with lack of man power. It has to do with her high standard of demanding that she do most of the work including placing the grafts. I know that the general consensus is that techs place the grafts, but we have already had discussions on this. Having said that, she can easily do 3000 grafts in one day. So it is a bit puzzling why Dr. Limmer's clinic breaks this doable amount of grafts up into two sessions - especially considering Pat's recent visit where it was revealed that the techs both make incisions and place grafts. Are the techs a bit slow at making the incisions? BTW - this post was edited in an effort to become the "kinder gentler" Gorpy

I understand NN. Forgive me if I was rambling a bit. I think, as you say, if you go slightly in front of your existing hairline it will work out great.

Hi Scooping, That looks good. Very clean work. Looks like all the scabs in the recipient area are gone. Expect those grafts to jump ship shortly. There must be a lot of grafts back mixed in with the hair also. It's hard to see because of your existing hair. Uh Oh! You look like a high contrast kind of guy. Just kidding with you scooping. I don't know if you've been following our Soft vs. Hard hairline debate. It'll be interesting to see how yours turns out.

Oh, are you talking about surgery on consecutive days with Dr. Keene?

Hey, I think for the most part we are in agreement there Joe. At the same time, I think there are successful approaches that don't exactly fall in line with the H&W way (there's more than one way to do it). If Dr. Rose says he can find fine hairs and excel at using them in the hairline, I believe him. I have heard this off and on from other doctors. It seems valid. I have some very fine hairs in my hairline that are much finer than hairs in other parts. I don't really know if they were placed there on purpose. Maybe they were. I do know that the hair on the side of my head tends to be finer. That doesn't mean it's miniturizing, it just means it's finer by nature. Wouldn't it stand to reason that it could be used in the hairline more than hair from the back of my head? Couldn't this phenomenon also occur with someone with courser hair?

I said the following earlier and I am confident that my position is valid: "The bottom line and point of this thread is that there is a difference between a soft feathered hairline and a hard hairline. I think that even with courser hair, a hairline can be made do look softer with the proper artistry. Maybe not as soft as mine, but nevertheless, softer." My point being "softer" - not as soft as mine. You stated that desire has nothing to do with it (making a soft hairline). I still disagree with that statement. I see many clinics doing excessively hard hairlines. Why? Because they want to. They like them that way. That's fine. That's their style. I personally don't like them. I'm sure many people do. Your clinic was never mentioned in this thread. It wasn't meant to be directed towards you. It was a general statement. Somehow I knew I would be seeing some H&W photos when I started the thread

Joe, so what if my specific placement would not look as good on a high contrast course haired person? What's your point? Do you think Dr. Keene does cookie cutter hairlines. That's the real implication here. Surgery and building of a natural hairline is unique to each individual. Certain doctors have certain styles. It does not mean that they don't vary their approach on a case by case basis. As I stated before, a high contrast hairline can still be made softer (but not as soft as mine), than some doctor are currently doing it.

Like I said, we all have our opinions. I don't see the plugginess that you do. Aqu - sorry, I don't have access to a vast resource of pictures. I just try to quickly search for something.

That's true Joe, hard might carry a negative connotation. It was not meant to. Here's another example of a soft hairline with significant transition by Dr. Robert True. Some people would not like the see through look at the front. Others would.

Here is an example of a patient that appears to have high contrast hair/scalp and relatively course hair, from Dr. Robert True. Notice he has a soft transition zone. It does not look "embarrassing" as you state. You might prefer one over the other. We all have opinions, but it is definitely not embarrassing. I got this from here. You can see his before pics there. He is on the first page. Where's the salt?

It makes perfect sense NN. It all depends on your available donar and your future needs. If your hair loss pattern is stabilized with fin, then you can go for a little more hairline. Your crown loss looks fairly small. Is it stabilized at this point? I remember struggling to decide about my hairline. I was going to go very conservative. I think it's a natural tendency for us to be conservative. I got to a point where I realized I was just wasting my time trying to figure out where to put it. I made a decision about a week prior to my surgery to trust my doctor's recommendation. That's why I think you really won't know until you hear what Dr. Shapiro has to say. Keep in mind that you don't have to lower it 1cm. Even .5dm makes a difference. And maybe that means placing a .5cm soft transition zone like mine in front of your current hairline. I certainly don't want to encourage you to do something you're not comfortable with. It's not worth fretting over. I'm sure Dr. Shapiro can make it look very natural where ever you place it. Here's what will most likely happen on your surgery day. You will sit down and the doctor will look at your situation after which he'll draw out a hairline that he thinks would be appropriate. At that point you will have a chance to discuss it with him. You'll voice your concerns. He'll adjust it if necessary. In the end you'll decide on the perfect hairline for you the individual. It'll be great.

I second that. Thanks rp1979. I look forward to seeing your progress.

Sorry Scooping A, I didn't see your previous question. I see you got your sutures removed. That's great.

That's a good point Joe, but I think it might be a little hard to describe. It's one of those things, where you know it when you see it. Maybe someone else can try to put it in words.

That is an excellent question NN. What it comes down to is a balance between future needs and available donar. Obviously we would all like to have a lower hairline that better frames our face. It just looks better. If we didn't have that dang donar limitation wouldn't we all be choosing a slightly lower hairline? Having said that, you could probably afford to lower yours slightly and close out your temples a little. Dr. Shapiro will no doubt examine you and tell you what your options are.

No problem NN. I understand now.

Hmmm... interesting point, BUT just because you're a NW-6 doesn't mean that you can't get a natural looking feathered hairline. In fact, a NW-6 needs it more than me. Putting a hard line of hair on a highly placed hairline is mistake in my opinion.