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This topic, I think is worthy of discussion and little is posted regarding some alternative approaches. I hope Joe and Gorp will weigh in as I think it's an extension of their hard or soft hairline debate. Before there were perfectionists like Hasson, Wong, Shapiro etc., back in the late eighties and nineties, some of the better transplant surgeons never liked to tackle the hairline. Instead they started with the crown and subsequently worked forward in what I call the balding transplant. We often look face to face with ourselves in the mirror and dread the fact that our hairline is fading. For most of us advanced or potentially advanced Norwood 4's and up, we shed from the crown as well, and probably as rapidly or faster than the front. I know Hasson is on this with his sessions sometimes sweeping the full spectrum,, as well as anyone I've ever seen. Not always possible though due to donor problems like elasticity. Years back, I think Pat made a statement about someone like Travolta or the like, in this day and age not having to look like they have a "monkey's ass" on the back of their head. That struck a chord to my soul and my mirror shots starting flinching at the massive loss at the crown. To me, a guy looks worse with full frontal coverage and the monkey's ass on the back, than a full crown and bald/balding in the front. With the skill of many surgeons and the patterns they're called on to remedy, I think many newbies would be best served to go "back to front" in their approach. It just looks better. Our view is frontal. The world is 360. And while we may want that frontal badly, fashion-wise, it'll look better as we gradually work toward a hairline. Of course proper planning in regards to donor volume is necessary but that's easy. You still need to be in the hands of the best surgeon. And of course the surgeons have all but forgotten to suggest such an approach because 99 out of 100, it's not what we want. I was shocked when some guys at work were busting each other's balls about hair and included me in the "bald" and "comb over" and "landing pad" jokes. After all, I had this new found beautiful hairline and from the front it looked bushy. How could it be? From a stylistic vantage point, at 360, it didn't really look good. Great transplant though. Undetectable. But classic "monkey's ass." I picked up the phone to expedite my crown work. You see, do you paint your car first or make the engine run? I think Gorp's HT looks awesome. He looks natural. I think my front (same doc) blows him away. Not by look but by volume. But his hair looked better as a whole (mine is filled in now and is great). I think a guy with "monkey's ass syndrome" looks worse by far than full back and balding/bald front. Please everyone. Weigh in on this. I think it's a major point of consideration. I have a friend in Beverly Hills that went back to front and after his first crown session he looked good. Then better and better. Me on the other hand looked "good....from the front." But kind of funny from the back. This transplant thing is about the end result but I think with proper planning and some testing you can look good from the outset.

This topic, I think is worthy of discussion and little is posted regarding some alternative approaches. I hope Joe and Gorp will weigh in as I think it's an extension of their hard or soft hairline debate. Before there were perfectionists like Hasson, Wong, Shapiro etc., back in the late eighties and nineties, some of the better transplant surgeons never liked to tackle the hairline. Instead they started with the crown and subsequently worked forward in what I call the balding transplant. We often look face to face with ourselves in the mirror and dread the fact that our hairline is fading. For most of us advanced or potentially advanced Norwood 4's and up, we shed from the crown as well, and probably as rapidly or faster than the front. I know Hasson is on this with his sessions sometimes sweeping the full spectrum,, as well as anyone I've ever seen. Not always possible though due to donor problems like elasticity. Years back, I think Pat made a statement about someone like Travolta or the like, in this day and age not having to look like they have a "monkey's ass" on the back of their head. That struck a chord to my soul and my mirror shots starting flinching at the massive loss at the crown. To me, a guy looks worse with full frontal coverage and the monkey's ass on the back, than a full crown and bald/balding in the front. With the skill of many surgeons and the patterns they're called on to remedy, I think many newbies would be best served to go "back to front" in their approach. It just looks better. Our view is frontal. The world is 360. And while we may want that frontal badly, fashion-wise, it'll look better as we gradually work toward a hairline. Of course proper planning in regards to donor volume is necessary but that's easy. You still need to be in the hands of the best surgeon. And of course the surgeons have all but forgotten to suggest such an approach because 99 out of 100, it's not what we want. I was shocked when some guys at work were busting each other's balls about hair and included me in the "bald" and "comb over" and "landing pad" jokes. After all, I had this new found beautiful hairline and from the front it looked bushy. How could it be? From a stylistic vantage point, at 360, it didn't really look good. Great transplant though. Undetectable. But classic "monkey's ass." I picked up the phone to expedite my crown work. You see, do you paint your car first or make the engine run? I think Gorp's HT looks awesome. He looks natural. I think my front (same doc) blows him away. Not by look but by volume. But his hair looked better as a whole (mine is filled in now and is great). I think a guy with "monkey's ass syndrome" looks worse by far than full back and balding/bald front. Please everyone. Weigh in on this. I think it's a major point of consideration. I have a friend in Beverly Hills that went back to front and after his first crown session he looked good. Then better and better. Me on the other hand looked "good....from the front." But kind of funny from the back. This transplant thing is about the end result but I think with proper planning and some testing you can look good from the outset.

Look. I understand. But my point was you have to start with some point of reference. You've been fiddling away while your hair went down the sink, for what, five years. Go to a dermatologist in your area that specializes in diseases or hair loss trauma to the scalp. The best kind is the kind that helps you. But if you call they will tell you yes or no. No, I do feet and turkey necks. No scalps. Or, Yes, I do scalps. I do dandruff. I do baldness. Whatever. If you decide to get a transplant then fly somewhere. No shortage of opinions there. I'm not being rude but every once in awhile someone comes on here with a medical reason for hair loss. All the rest of us lost it the old fashion way, by going bald. You need to find out which one is you. Traction alopecia, which your first post alludes to. I'm sure Long Island with all the hair chicks dyeing and frosting around Rockville Center, it's stirred up the need for a dermo that does Traction Alopecia. Also consider anything extreme five years ago like a severe flu, mono etc. That could very well set off a cycle of alopecia areata. But also remember whether it be any of these, when did you stop using the creams, lotions and all that? What happened. Still losing? Is the damage done? No help? It will either be very very easy or very hard to determine what's going on. You can spend thousands. But remember in your area, Dr. True doesn't need your business and won't try to sell you anything. But a couple of hundred bucks for his consultation would be well worthwhile. If it is one of the few bio/chemical-modified induced baldness cases I'm sure he'll hook you up with a local dermo.

Is that guy for real? Just fell off the hair transplant turnip truck. Something weird about that one. "Gee Willickers!!!! Why can't there just be a hair trans plant shop here in Mayberry. That way Aunt Bee could give me a lift on down."

All in all guys. Soft verse hard hairlines. Points well made. If HTs always looked like the one in Gorp's photo there wouldn't be forums like this. Excellent work. And if the only ones that could spot that in the world, are like one or two freakish savants that work for great surgeons, then, let's hope we never run into them at a party. Like be serious here. A great surgeon should be able to customize based on the patient. No question. A better point to be made, and most likely the bigger point Gorp was making, is client expectation. Give the doctor a break. There are no "miracles" unless a surgeon makes one. A great looking healthy head of "receding" hair beats the hell out of planting a severe line of hair across your brow and filling it in. And the point with the diagrams and photos and the question of "native hair" or "no native hair." I'm voting for "native hair." It sounds better and I'm sure if you keep looking there's some still sprouting there, for sure.

I tried James' regimen. It did nothing. I did grow hair on my palms though. And now, Dr. Keene said she can use it as additional donor hair. So all in all, I'm very pleased with James' routine.

Don't really know what kind of help you're asking for. While every case is different, there are many similarities. Have you ever just considered that regardless of creams and lotions you may be going bald? Baldness is a very funny condition. Over 90% of all sufferers are in denial until it is noticeable to others as well. I used to blame nutrition, lack of sleep, too much exercise, not enough exercise, type of shampoo, pulling my own hair out by grooming too much, my mother, my father, my maternal grandfather.....you get the point. Go to a dermatologist. Then get a second opinion. When you call one up say..."Hello, do you treat conditions of hair loss and evaluate causes of hair loss." It is all very simple. It is our emotional state that makes baffled. Denial. If you looked in the mirror and noticed a front tooth got knocked out, I doubt you'd be trolling forums for mysterious causes. HAIR LOSS SUCKS.

Gorp!!!!! Great great stuff. Another classic Dr. Keene undetectable hairline. She is awesome. I will have to post mine to try to one up you. Will be hard though. I was in Tucson again in May. No more front work for me. She hit it out of the park. And as far as Dr. Keene's stock going up. Can't see it going any higher. She's already booked, revered, and simply one of the best by everyone's account. She's a bit shy though and chooses to stay quiet rather butt heads with other doctors. I think she may still be the only one that places every single last hair herself. Without exception.

Bill.....I always take time to read your well thought out posts. It was very complimentary, however you simply are more polite about shouting down hucksters and opportunists than I am. Often times, when someone is deemed a poor candidate for HT, they are panicked into the arms of creams, pills, and funny lights, because of desperation. That bothers me. I tend to appreciate a more hotile environment Bill. Where we call out the hucksters and threaten them. It seems far less excessive than the tactic they use in stretching miniscule evidence to ram a crappy product down our throats.

Hi Angel.....Glad to see you're happy about your decision, but I'll respectfully disagree with it. Like anything in life that needs serious contemplation before action, a HT needs to be done to the fullest and complete ability of both the patient and doctor. Not meaning that you have to aspire to the very thickest and very complete looking hair. Just that the approach, when done correctly, will leave you with feelings that don't have to be updated. Getting on with your life is grand. I said I'd do that too. But days lead to months to years and to more than a decade of shying away from social situations. If you have ever been upset enough to go for a HT than you'll never be able to get it out of your mind. That's what this forum is about in my opinion. A place that has made the decision that enough is enough. Solve the problem. With either abandoning the notion of a HT because your situation would yield bad results, even in the hands of the best surgeon, or getting in the hands of the very best to see your problem through to a satisfiable ending. I think anyone that leaves a HT with more questions has made a mistake. It needs to be an A to Z plan. So while I'm happy for you, you are a rare case. I tried everything. Even telling myself everyone was going bald. But I use to sit in a room an be preoccupied with everyone's head. Knowing that the full head of hair count was high and us balding ones were low. My imagination may run wild, but it was MY REALITY. And I know that I'm not alone. Only when you do all you can do with professional results can you relax a bit and turn the page. At least for me. Contrary to common belief.....I believe ALL ASPIRIN IS ALIKE. All surgeons are not.

Bill has proven once again that he is the nicest man on the forum. He is polite in telling you that you're nuts if you spend a nickel for this nonsense. Me, well, I'd like to see the clinic you went to go bankrupt today. They are slime. They sell water, a drop at a time, to thirsty, dehydrated men. Consult with Dr. Keene. While being a woman doesn't give her any guaranteed insight into your dilemma, I think you may feel more at ease with her. She is beautiful with beautiful hair, talented and quite sensitive to the emotional side of all this.

Oh boy. Here we go. Just when I thought I was out......they pull me back in. This post is not directed at Dr. Bauman. My patience are all but obliterated by his posts. This is simply to shed what I think is important points regarding this last post and to further encourage to boycott and slam those doctors that don't get it. It's not like recommending a car. This crap hurts people emotionally and physically. THE LASER THING IS WHACK!!!!! Period. Thge guy posts an abstract. WHat a joke. An abstract is to inform other medical professionals about research. This abstract shows that Laser Therapy should stay in the research area and leave us consumers the hell alone. No one in the world can post photos of significant results using only lasers. And if the point is just to throw everything at it like creams, lotions and drugs, then just admit money falling out of pockets like the hair off a bald man is what these shysters are after. I really think the kind tone of some of our more educated posters allows for this to masquerade as a "possibility." Yet not one guy on here with a nice HT would do this therapy themselves. If a doctor wants to devote himself to cures then do it. When they find that cure let us know and charge us. But don't make false promises of hair when this thing might on a good day produce some angel hair fuzz. Like I said. The pool of qualified surgeons will shrink. Hard work. Not so great cash. But if the Laser comb or Laser treatments can throw another 150K into the practice....why not? A sucker is born every minute.

To the doctors and board members that try to post with a polite and even tone I do commend you for your tolerance. But I also don't have the patience for hucksters. Bald is bald. You either cure it or you don't. I advocate for people to either get a top shelf transplant from one of the masters or deal with your baldness with dignity. No checking the mirror to see if a single hair sprouted from some wacky tonic. I wish the board were more about crucifying those that prey on the desperate. Whether intentional or not. Lasers have not done anything for hair transplantation or regrowth. Even the cutting by laser method was silly.

Case closed.

Be fair to Dr. Unger. He unequivocally states on his website that he is in no way affiliated with laser comb. And that has been on his site well before FDA approval. And has told me personally many times that it was something he considers to be unproven and lacked any significant results. They tried to use a small portion of his review in an out of context manner as though he said it worked. Very unethical.

WOW! This will be an unpopular post. This thread reads like a junkie's paradise. First I hate to be economical but how much does all this stuff cost? Secondly I'm just wondering what the stress factor is. I understand no one wants to lose their hair, but is it all just prolonging the inevitable? And how many are still in the "cover up" mode. That is so crazy to me. Every mirror is like some secret nightmare. Maybe there's a few wonderful success stories that you hear with full heads of hair. And maybe some hold on. I find that a planned regimen of transplant can blend and cover and eventually be done with. Often the drugs just are wait and see products. While it's great that a bald guy goes t5o Hasson and can virtually turn back the clock in 1 or 2 sessions and that being a year and a half. I think many guys around 30 know where it's going. Consult with the best doctors. They see the pattern and can plan a transplant regimen that will help you never have to look really bald. And after 3 or 4 over 5 years you're probably close to being finished. The drug thing to me is so unproven as to long term affects, results etc. Plus the cost on some of these shampoos and creams is just plain nuts. It is very smart for a very young guy with nice hair to educate himself on proper nutrition. Some people think I lost the bushy bushy hair I had due to my not eating red meat. Could be. Point is....take care of what you got, but don't use something that the results still give you the "cover up" blues.

Be best to hang out and recover locally for a week and let the doc pull out their own staples/stitches. A luxury yes but a great way to relax and recover. If you're not going to work anyway and the price of a week's stay planned in advance can be economical and figured in to your planned cost. Tucson security never checked under the hood. And day after swelling is not usually noticeable. I'm sure International stuff is more of a pain in the ass. Great surgeons will inflict little trauma. The worst in in the donor, especially for a mega session. Many surgeons want to shave you so there's no hiding. When asked just tell them that the reason you're flying is because Hasson or Shapiro or Keene or whatever is the best surgeon in the world. Then they all act differently like you are royalty. My cab driver in Tucson starting asking me tons of questions because he says he picks up people there from all over the world and she must be amazing and he tells everyone. So it's up to you to approach it in a way that takes the stigma out of it. The only reason why there's an embarrassment factor is because for years a transplant was a stupid idea due to jamming penny size plugs in your head for everyone to laugh at. Someone said asked me if I was worried about losing my hair because it looked like I had slight receding at the temple (very slight). I told them that I was completely bald already and every hair on my head was transplanted. They laughed. I'm always such a kidder. Go for it. Who the fuck cares. Get rid of your stress. Life's too too short. Good luck.

Hey B Spot.....I too like the post. It prompts me though to be more cynical. Not about the website. Pat saved my life. I had 1992 corn rows done by nuhart. When that happens you consider suicide more than a lawsuit so for those of you that were never exposed to such butchery.....I'm not exaggerating. I'm cynical because the industry is getting bigger and the quality is getting smaller. And Pat can dig up another dozen clinics today and it won't make a dent and the new ones need to be watched and updated if they hire new surgeons as part of their expansion. It won't be carved in stone. I heard one of those TV transplant docs actually does great work himself but has now hundreds of surgeons scalping people all over the country and could care less how precise they are. This is a new skill each day. A doctor's past work is a great indication of what to expect, but if they aren't up to the task on YOUR day....forget it. This business, to be good at it, well, is not a good business. It is hard. There's little money in it for a doctor. A plastic surgeon or any doctor has so many other better money making choices. You can have quadruple bypass surgery quicker than a 2500 graft session. That graft session costs somewhere between 8-10K. A REAL surgeon can only do a few a week. And they need a lot of help. So do the math. Point is that if a doctor goes to a clinic to observe a Dr. Keene or Shapiro, it's daunting to think of emulating the procedure. Such tedium. And a patient's expectations are usually way out of whack. Personally, on average, I think we're all Norwood 5's eventually or worse. So we all basically end up needing a lot of work. So extrapolate that over time. A patient has to be.....patient!!!! Girl gets a boob job and within a month she's......va va va voom!!!!! A radical face lift? 6 weeks and you're ten years younger. Stent or bypass and your heart is ticking better immediately. It's this hair game that is thankless for a year, until when, you then want more!!!! Point is guys, don't expect this industry to get better clearing the minefields. The minefields are getting more dense as we grow balder. This is hard work. Dr. Keene is a beautiful woman. i sleep through her surgeries and wake up fresh as a daisy. She painstakingly does every graft placement herself. Every single one without exception. She is drained when she leaves and can even look haggard. The fact that she even smiles at me before I jump in the cab is amazing. THIS IS VERY HARD WORK. The money, when the work is done right, ends up to be so so. You can't can't say that about many industries. On the other hand the rich in this industry are well known for their poor results. Go figure. So don't count on a doc springing up in your neighborhood anytime soon. At least not an artist. And that in turns makes this community, this board, Pat in particular, much more valuable than ever. Here's to hoping the website makes him rich.

This is kind of a USA board. We all know some surgeons here and a few abroad. But the consensus is going to be to come to the states.

Hey Boris....while it may seem as easy as putting a number of hairs to a problem to come up with a solution is the way to go.....it's probably not. Vety hard to break it down that way. It certainly sounds good. But it comes down to who is going to jam a scalpel into the back of your head, rip a huge patch of hair and take it apart, then punch holes into the top of your head and insert the hairs. I know it sounds crazy. But think about what you're doing. It ain't a deal like all aspirin are alike. I would Hasson or Keene or Shapiro do it to me blindfolded befor I would let most doctors do it with all their skills. So my point is that you;re doing a HT. Great. A session for you of about 2500 varied 1-2-3 grafts sounds great. Some docs can almost make that a full head of hair. Others can cover a 20 cm square. And still others can't even make the shit grow. My thoughts are Hasson will want to do more. Keene maybe about 2500. And it's all good in the right hands. So that's where your thinking should be and in a year you'll be happy as hell and probably planning another session. Choose your hairline wisely. It will be permanent.

My doc's advice......twice a day scalp massage for ten minutes each massage for at least 45 days prior to surgery. I ignored her. She was unable to get as much as she planned. The back of my head is so freaken tight it's ridiculous. Good thing she is first rate and I healed very well and finally started getting back to normal. She was not happy. Oddly enough, very few docs even prescribe this. Makes you wonder how few are up to the task. I remember awhile back Jotronic was accused of being a "salesman." Great comeback he had. Wish I could find it. Wish I had a "salesman" like him approach way back when when I went through all this with bad results. Well, all worked out in the end.

This is the most important topic I've read on this forum. And also, the reason we're all here. Simply stated, baldness is devastating. It can melt years away from one's life, be it socially, professionally or just personally. I for one consider myself dynamic. I also can contribute many shortfalls in my history to not necessarily confidence due to baldness but humility. Insensitivity to physical appearances has consistently grown decade over decade. The vanity factor is staggering. It causes many to seek refuge in, over-eating for example, and just give up on being with "the in crowd." Society has gone beyond rational logic to trip over itself and be 'PC" to avoid racism, sexism and bigotry toward one's sexual orientation. However, to slam someone's appearance, in this case baldness, or even ugliness is beyond my comprehension. The biggest culprit in my opinion is "AGEISM." It has crept into everything with zero emphasis on it's meaning. Every news report, starts with "John Doe, 45, was fired from the Town Council." It is absurd that this information be highlighted in everyday life especially when there is such abias toward aging. Whatever can't be helped is slammed by our ignorance. The buck stops with me. Never ask anyone's age. Never make commentary on weight. Never make a point to of someone's appearance. Even a compliment to one in the presence of others can be insulting to the discluded. All that said, think of it this way Middle.....BALDNESS HAS MADE ME A BETTER MAN. It has. It made me more sensitive to others. A quality that regardless of what I achieve or acquire could never be matched as to importance. So many people successful in the world's eyes are insensitive. Make a mental list of those insensitive idiots that blurt out bald and fat jokes as though they're the life of the party. They are losers. The best rack of tits in the world won't excuse away insensitivity. Fuck them. If a gentleman means making everyone around you comfortable then it surely doesn't include comments like the ones mentioned here. And to be a lady? Well they should know better. With the mean spirited scrutiny they have been judged by through the decades, shame on them. Some of you summed it up well with the no need for tit for tat. Real class guys. Really.

Just for the record, I am a auto mechanic's assistant, so I'm currently fielding questions about buying new automobiles. I feel being in the trenches makes me qualified to tell you what you should buy. I can;t tell you what models I work on but, I would like everyone here to treat me as an expert in order to help with my self esteem. Buy a Nissan. They are are pretty neat. I was called in to advise a mechanic on a muffler problem. They flew me in from Vegas to San Antonio. My services are in demand obviously. 1. I have a question for hairtech guy or whatever he calls himself. Besides being able to quote some technical jargon to prove that you've worked in a hair clinic, what do you think is the single most important thing for a potential client to ask when considering a HT? 2. And a second question because with me always looking for a new career, what kind of dough do they pay you? By the hour or salary? 3. As a consultant, who do you consult, doctors or patients? 4. At a recent conference, the point was made by several prominent HT surgeons, that while there are always new and innovative techniques being discovered and shared in the HT industry, why is the industry in danger of shrinking in terms of quality surgeons? 5. Do you find it difficult to actually learn and make assessments of so many doctors and clinics in such a short time? 5 years? Just curious as to your answers. No malice intended.

Hey Bill....yeah....very reasonable. All your points valid and valuable. Just don't want anyone to think that the LASER COMB is a new product that is waiting on results. For most of us it is old news, nothing good in the way of results and some shady past practices to get in the public eye. My final point on the matter is on to bigger and better things, alternatives and maybe just good old fashioned skilled labor.

Hey Bill.....only directed the point to you because you wee engaged in the dialogue and are prominent here. To be honest, if Dr. Bauman is esteemed then he should stick to transplants and not advocate a PROVEN SHAM. I for one don't need to see some new rebuffed tests or results. The laser comb has been around for a long time and awhile back even attached itself to doctors without their blessing. That is public record. Doctors as far back as Unger had to cease and desist them. So when I see it pop up again, I feel it is my moral obligation to shoot it down with all my might. Because to the vulnerable demographic that wastes time waiting for growth, they can get busy with the real deal. The techniques used by our favorites here are virtually undetectable. I was in Keene's chair the other day for a slight touch up and the shampoo girl had only been there six months and asked me why I was starting so early when you can hardly notice any baldness. I had to clue her that all my hair was transplanted. So there's hope. But not in the Laser Comb. I'm just miffed that this board has enough clout to make new readers believe whatever is posted on it. And Laser Comb being touted by a doctor here with links and a somewhat aggressive stance makes me think that the bait will be snatched. I care more if some kid gets hustled than some doctor gets his feelings hurt. About a year ago I slammed Dr. Williams from Las Vegas on this forum for pushing the corny laser helmet. And let me tell you, I like Dr. Williams but nailing some guy an extra 350 or so for follow up laser helmet treatments was plain silly. The advancement in transplant techniques, limited sessions and styling is so far beyond many expectations, why not just go with it. I understand not enough doctors are doing and the reason is that it is very hard and tedious work. An army of microscopes, and a surgeon like Keene placing every single graft herself is mind boggling. And for what? $500 bucks an hour or so? The future is grim if techniques and practitioners don't continue to grow and advance. That or the price will just go higher. And it probably should. But given the astounding amount of detail and precision one of these surgeons has to deal with to be the best, I understand that some might see $$$$$ in alternatives. Make sure you check it out guys. Don't put more time into understanding what flat screen TV is best than what surgeon will do a HT right. The list is short I'd say, but they are out there for the taking. And if you are ever out in the desert off the old route 66, I think near the Arizona/New Mexico Border, there's a museum dedicated to The Devil's Rope (barbed wire). Just up the road about 100 yards there's an old Indian Chief that has a roadside stand. His associate is one of the last practicing witch doctors known in those parts. He offers sessions for $25 where he bops you on the head with a rattlesnake tail and then sprays the venom of a scorpion on your bald spot. Heard it works as well as the LASER COMB .......for a fraction of the price.