johnnie69

wishful would be the word.....any growth from minox is dose dependant and when treatment is discontinued, all the hair recovered as a result of the minox will be again shed... Lifetime comittment....although, after 1-3 yrs, many find that a once daily application can be used for maintenance, but the results will decline gradually over time....

Well, made it through the funeral without getting caught....for the viewing last night, wore all black with a formal hat from burlington coat factory.....Took alot of shit for it to...because, I didnt take it off, even inside...my family thought I was bieng disrespectful, and my daughter said I looked like a dork, lol. So I had to hide out, spent alot of time in the kitchen and playing with all the kids...the viewing was for 6 hrs, so, let me tell you, it was uncomfortable.... Showed up for the funeral-10 am- and am just getting home....5 pm.....I even left my hat on in the church.....wrong on lots of levels...and was takin a ton of shit, especially from my mom...finally I called her aside and told her I got a bad haircut and the hat was stayin on, and if everyone doesnt quit giving me shit about it, Ill leave.... DAMN DID THAT JUST SUCK!!! Nothing like givin false impressions.... This waiting part sucks...and I just started....cant wait to at least get the staples out of my head...and see if I can get some kind of haircut to blend..... Like I said, im gonna journal here...both for me and to let others see what it is like to go thru the "process".... My numbness is starting to subside...slightly, but the donor is still really tender...I am using Mederma 4 x daily on the donor now, and emu oil on the receiptent and donor before bed....starting using minox tonight also...actuallt I am gonna give the Spectral DNC a try, so Ill let you know how that goes....read the book on Test....lets just say it didnt increase my chances of taking finasteride...Ill post more about that later.... Happy Easter.

thankx man...good luck with whatever u decide to do.....

Tryin to put a face with the posts huh laughter?..... yeah, it was me...

thanks hairbank....still got the staples...so its a hat...some kind of hat....

http://www.auravita.com/products/AURA/WELA11085.asp 14255 $15.00/11.25 1 Blood of the Dragon Styling Gel - 6 oz http://www.morroccomethod.com/

Im probobly the wrong one to answer this cause I wont, at this point, take propecia....Its been recommended to me for yrs...im 36 now...and reconsidering... From the recent rersearch ive done, results are inconsistent as far as to;erance....a possible way to avoid and/or avoid tolerance is to start propecia in a smaller dosage....an example of which would be quarting it....I read some studies on it and the effects of the drug at that dose arent signifigantly lessened...approx+-10%. Some of the problems ive found in the research is the fact that some people, when their bodies are dht alpha deprived, starrt to systematically produce extra alpha.....thus increasing estrogen levels... I read about DIM as a count and flax seed.... just throwing thios out there for you....do your own research...as the coin is two sided....and im not an expert...still trying to figure out for myself if I am gonna try it.... As for the dry scalp, what kind of shampoo do u use.... The emu oil works wonders....

I forgot about the journaling....so here goes... Today is day 8.....my scabs are all gone...have been for two days... I actually just got up and looked in the mirror to see if there was any redness...before I looked I was gonna report a slight redness, but after I checked, I really dont notice much, if any at all....keep in mind my hair is alburn...closer to brown, but definatly with some red in it..... What I am doing currently: I shower in the morning....I use the Grafcyte shampoo/conditioner that I got in a kit from the clinic....I apply it and let it stand for five minutes...both shampoo and conditioner.....In the recepient, I am careful still to rub in a light circular motion, and in the donor, right to left and avoid up/down.....my donor is still very tender..the staples are still there...hurts more in the occipital area....could it be cause thats where my hat rests and how I sleep...probably...maybe...I dont know. For the first five days, I gently patted on the shampoo and avoided the showerhead..and used cold water...whick really sucks but gotta do it....during this period, I constantly applied grafcyte concentrated spray....and I do mean constantly....until I used up the entire bottle... When the grafcyte was gone, went to the pharmacy and got saline...1000ml bottle 0.9% sodium chloride irrigation,usp, wrapped black tape around my grafcyte sparay baootle to conceal it, and put the saline in that bottle....In the evenings, while im at my computer, I spray constantly...It was gettin in my eyes, so I wrapped a bandana around my head,on my forehead and below the donor to catch the overflow.... After day 5, I started adding fruit of the earth pure all natural aloe....addin it real heavy also....In the evenings before bed, I switched to emu oil now, and put it on rather generously Heads is still numb from donor to almost vertex...and as I mentioned, donor is real sore... Last night I finished my last dose of 2x daily antibiotics....I also use gnc's mega man multi 2xdaily, msm 1500mg capsules 2x daily and for now, biotin tabs 2x daily.....I also have l-arg, but im unclear on its effectiveness and use presently, so im not taking it.... Im a minox user, the post op says to wait two weeks....Im a fast healer and I think I could get away with starting now, especially since all the scabs are gone and im not really red anymore, but Im gonna wait till day 10. Staples to be removed at day 14. Then some kind of haircut....My girl that cut it and kept a file msteriously quit her job and left no contact info, so im bummed about that.... Noticing slight shed during the shower....not heavy but hadnt noticed much before...quit minox 1 wk prior to surgery...so perhaps a combo of that and some shockloss.....although from what I have noticed, most of the hair seems to be coming from around the donor area......top seems to be doing real well in that regard.....Ill pay more attention to where it is coming from if it continues... Doing alot of research on finasteride...at first I was nevere gonna take it, now Im back researching it again....Lookin for a way to take it without/or limiting the sides.....read some interesting stuff about quartering propecia, DIM and flax seed as counters and others, Ill post what I find after I understand it all....currently reading "testosterone syndrome" by eugene shippman.... I think thats about everything for now.....I am photographically documenting the journey, maybe someday ill post the pics.... Im gonna try and keep this up throughout for both my reference and everyone elses....

thanx mud

Pat...thanks man.... T The dermatch and toppik arent gonna work cause my hair is too short in the reciepient and then longer/thicker on the sides and back... My only chance is a hat......Gonna try mens wearhouse....

Thanx B....Ill do a google on that....

Thanx man....As for her passing, its kinda for the best, she had been ill and had no life for a long time....

Ha fukin ha. It is kinda funny though (not the death part) isnt it....WTF am I gonna do?

guys, my aunt died and I got the call to be a pall bearer..anyone got any ideas about how to pull this off....a ahircut at this point is out the window, so a formal hat is the only thing I can think of.... Any ideas....I got till Saturday!!!!!

guys, my aunt died and I got the call to be a pall bearer..anyone got any ideas about how to pull this off....a ahircut at this point is out the window, so a formal hat is the only thing I can think of.... Any ideas....I got till Saturday!!!!!

Thanks mud....maybe I will post some in the future, not now... My aunt died today...So I got the call to be a pall bearer this Saturday....WTF..... I got f%$kin staples and a fuked haircut.... Somehow I gotta find a way to wear a hat...with fromal attire....I more of the jeans/tshirt/ballcap or bandana kinda guy, but.... Anybody got any ideas or pull something like this off before...remember...Im only a 1 week post op...

dandare...like i told mud, im not callin you or anyone out...dont know either of you and I cant speak for your experience....and where did you read in my post that I didnt believe you....If youre referring to the end, it was a generalized statement..... My post was to detail my confusion....and then the facts as I know them about transplantation, how it works...and actually what separates a doctor from another..... Im not affiliated with Shapiro, or for that matter, anyone else....Dr Hasson, from what I have read, and also what I believe myself, is one of the best in the world....in fact, if we are talking only strip here, the only two I personally would use are Shapiro or Hasson..... But thats MY OPINION...im not trying to jam anything down anyones throat....or badmouthing any other docs.... Listen, everyone got an opinion...I been coming on these and many other boards for almost 3 years...I read constantly....I dont post much, but when I do I feel realtively safe that its factual due to the research I put in.... and dont ever accuse me of bieng dishonest man....I spoke my story from the heart......

After surgery, I asked Dr Shapiro if he would compile my surgery info and summary.....Ill paste it below.....As far as pics, I dont know if Ill be addin them.....like I said, the I never told anyone I have had this done, and I dont want anyone finding out..... I got tons of pics from the first one and I have taken pics and will continue during this ...maybe at the end Ill change my mind and post em, but for now, no pics..... I was considering journaling here throughtout the course of my regrowth to illustrate the process.... Anyway, here is the summary......and thankx for the well wishes.. INITIAL EVALUATIN DETAILS Age-35 RECIPIENT AREA "?? Head Size- Large "?? Hairline -Very thin "?? Frontal Core- Very thin "?? Mid Third(Bridge)- Thin "?? Crown ??“Thin DONOR AREA "?? Donor Density- Average (80-90) "?? Donor Laxity ??“ Above Average "?? Donor Area Size- Above Average HAIR CHARACTERISTICS "?? Color- Brown "?? Caliber- Coarse "?? Curl- Moderate Curl MEDICATIONS- "?? NOT taking Propecia PROCEDURE ONE DATA "?? Procedure 1 Date- 1/12/05 "?? Donor Details o Length- 22 cm o Width-1.5 cm o Donor Area- = 33 Cm2 "?? Recipient Area Transplanted ??“Front 1/3 to. 1/2 ~ 80 CM2 "?? Recipient Area Number of Grafts and Hair Details o 1 Hair Fu's - 394 Fu's = 394 Hairs o 2 Hair Fu's -1231 Fu's = 2262 Hairs o 3 Hair Fu's - 801 Fu's = 2403 Hairs o 4 Hair Fu's- 252 Fu's = 1008 Hairs o TOTAL FU's---2678 o TOTAL HAIRS ---6267 PROCEDURE TWO DATA "?? Procedure 1 Date- 4/5/06 "?? Donor Details o Length- 27 cm o Actual Width~1.3 (with ~ 1 to 2 mm of scar resected from about ??) o Functional Width ??“ 1.1 cm o Donor Area- =29.7 cm2 "?? Recipient Area Transplanted ??“Lateral Alleys and Mid Third ~ 80-100 CM2 "?? Grafts/Hairs o 1 Hair Fu's - 423 Fu's = 423 Hairs o 2 Hair Fu's -1046 Fu's = 2092 Hairs o 3 Hair Fu's - 588 Fu's = 1764 Hairs o 4 Hair Fu's- 159 Fu's = 636 Hairs o TOTAL FU's---2216 o TOTAL HAIRS ---4915 COMBINED PROCEDURE DATA GRAFT AND HAIR TOTAL o COMBINED TOTAL FU'S ---4894 FU'S o COMBINED TOTAL HAIRS---11182 HAIRS

reread it mud...im not callin you out...or pointing any fingers...just stating what happened inside my mind...and then whats real... Im a week post op, and this isnt my first dance and right now it sucks...gotta wear a hat again for months...got staples in my head....sprayin saline all day...so as far as euphoria...id say thats out the window.....summer is comin and I got two kids who like to swim...Im busy tryin to figure out a way to hide that I had the work done..,..and get back to work..... The post wasnt meant to put you or anyone on the defense....just stating the facts from my perspective.... I stand behind everything I said.

Well, here goes guys...got a lot to say here...hopefully it will all come out right...Take a few minutes and read it to the end.... You guys might remember my posts and my apprehension regarding my second procedure, and my questioning my results of my first procedure. To start, let's focus on the first procedure....I had in done in Jan of '05... At the time of the initial surgery, I had researched what I felt was a reasonable amount and narrowed my choices to H&W and Dr Ron Shapiro. Quite honestly, I don't remember what the tipping point was for me, both are top notch, but I eventually choose Doc. My hair is course, heavy, wiry and thick in diameter, excellent in regards to density and the appearance of fullness after surgery, yet hard to predict from a surgeons standpoint....i.e....in some cases, although a graph incision is angled perfectly, when the hair grows, the initial angle is correct as to symmetry to adjacent hairs, only to wave and change directions....making predicting the characteristics increasingly difficult...I was a NW 5v, yet my thinning was diffuse....had never used Propecia, but was using Minox 2x daily and irregularly the Hairmax laser comb. Basically, I had no hairline, and my frontal third was almost all gone minus a tuft in the frontal forelock. We decided to concentrate on creating a hairline and working back within the frontal third, ignoring the crown at this time.... The surgery went well and I was excited about the prospects....in my mind, I though that with this procedure and the minox and the other products that I was dabbling with at the time, and maybe some dermatch, I would be good to go.....I remember asking Doc after the procedure how happy he thought I would be, and he told me about an 8 out of ten, since I already have some hair. The initial downside of the procedure was the haircut.....I was basically shaved up front, and since I never told anyone I had the work done, I was stuck in a hat for 5 months....just part of the process....My donor density is slightly above average as well as my laxity, kinda tight but not bad. I didn't have the trico closure and the suture method was staples....I photographically documented daily at first, then weekly, then month by month. My staples were painful, had a lot of crust on them and always seemed inflamed. I couldn't sleep much at all for the first week or two. I actually called Doc for a refill on the vicodens, which he agreed to, apprehensively. I remember him saying that it's not common that he sees the need for this, but, during the procedure, it also required an abnormal amount of anesthetic to numb the area, and had to be reapplied frequently, so he correlated the need to hypersensitivity in the area. I found a girl to cut my hair that lives a good distance from my hometown...I remember asking her to take me in the back of the salon before I'd take off my hat...she even went as far as to make a file to document my growth....At about 7 months, I was finally able to get a haircut where all the areas could be blended....the donor had covered, and the front had grown in sufficiently....The transplanted area was thick and dense, but had some areas that concerned me....an area on one side of my hairline (approx 10-20 hairs) seemed to grow downward, and the transplanted hairs in the frontal forelock, although growing, weren't growing at the same rate of my preexisting hair. My scar was red and I got pimples on it a lot and was uncomfortable...where it commenced above my right ear it was a bit wider than in the occipital area. The thing that bothered me most is that it didn't blend at the lateral humps, therefore limiting my styling options. I was getting paranoid....Started thinking I had a yield problem, started thinking that everything had went wrong....As an aside here, no one had ever noticed that I had a transplant...I'd get comments like ."Hey, your hair looks good"' or "are you using Just for Men" and stuff like that.....but to me, it wasn't just right.... So I'm back to the forums....reading nonstop...for hours each day...Dr Shapiro is regarded as one of the best in the industry, but I was full of doubt....why wasn't my hair "perfect"? I talked with Matt on a number of occasions and he assured me that everything was fine and I just needed some fine tuning with a second procedure....but, what if that wasn't the case? I started seeing some things posted here about Dr. Shapiro that I though were questionable, only to find them deleted.....and all the buzz was H&W, on all the boards...the big sessions, the amazing one pass results. So I start thinking, hey, maybe Dr. Shapiro isn't the best one to go to anymore...maybe its H&W, maybe Shapiro's time has come and gone.....maybe he hasn't evolved and others have passed him up and he's living off reputation....a rep so strong that people don't say anything negative in a public forum in relation to him.... By now I'm doubting whether or not I should go back....I called H&W and talked with Ferkie on a number of occasions....sent him all my photos and considered booking with him....had a lot of long conversations...I even had him show the pics to Dr. Hasson...Ferkies reaction...."just as I suspected...awesome results"....Dr Hasson said the same thing....and even questioned what I expected, and if it was realistic......But I'm so paranoid now, I'm thinking its out of professional courtesy......Then, the subject of other docs come up and the tune changes.....not very much praise..... By now I'm at the juncture where I'm seriously confused...it seems the more that I learn, the less that I know for sure, I mean, how do you really know? Obviously Matt is gonna be for Dr Shapiro and Ferkie is gonna be for Dr Hasson. ************************************************************************************************* I gave all the above details and scenario to paint a picture of what I was feeling and, more importantly, how I was made to fell that way...As the industry evolves, we as patients seem to expect everything to be perfect...with the new procedures and technology, everything should always be just right ....perfect in fact....a vision in ones mind.... I chose Dr Shapiro for my second surgery. Am I glad that I did....ABSOLUTLY!!!! And here is why....Hair transplantation made simple....Harvest the donor without damage to surrounding tissue and without follicle transsection....Closure....Dr Shapiro recently posted about his views on this....Instrumentation....Shapiro uses custom cut blades.....trimming the surrounding tissue from the donor harvest as much as possible to avoid follicle damage....magnification.....10x for Shapiro,....now through this, he has created an incision that is customized to the finely trimmed graph...the 10x sorts rules out transsection....where else is there to go....incision angle, artistry, skill, experience, approach, placement ....Doc has all of them... In reference to my above concerns about my first procedure, first let me address the issue of the scar.....I told you that I had redness and discomfort....Dr Shapiro and I were talking about the suture method, staples or stitches, during my second procedure. Also, we talked about the possible reasons that could have caused my scar to be larger that anticipated. He ran through a long checklist of which I cannot remember all, but one of the factors was infection....I told him that when my staples were removed they were crusty and bled, and that it was very painful.....the pain continued after the removal along with swelling....I didn't know any better, I thought it was normal...I also used products on my donor area other than were recommended. And, on top of that, I was back at the gym lifting way too soon after surgery.......forget about not tuckin my chin; I was bustin out squats.... We had a long consult the day before my surgery and the day of the surgery....I ended up getting the trico closure and having a small section of the scar excised at the expense of a few less graphs.....Not only do I have staples, but Dr Shapiro put internal stitches to help ensure that I did not have issue again, along with the preventative measure of prescribing an antibiotic to prevent infection this time. The lateral humps just needed a slight blend and the vertex and crown were also addressed. .I spoke above about magnification....Doc uses a 10x magnification....I was even privileged to see it in action as he linked it to a screen and let me view some incisions....With the recipient area being shaved, coupled with this magnification, the incidence of transsection of native hairs is virtually eliminated....also, imo, the added magnification will help to prevent shockloss. For those of you in the know, the standard in the industry is 6x.... I sit red faced as I reflect on my doubts...The lengths that Dr Shapiro went to ensure that I get the best possible result go far and beyond what one could expect....His attention to detail, his artistry, his compassion and empathy cannot be understated....I mean, I had a great result with awesome one pass density and I'm still questioning....He is also one of the most humble and gracious men I have ever met....This may sound over the top to some, but I actually feel honored to have been afforded the privilege to have him perform my surgery......A lot of it stems from my guilt of having apprehension.... Lots of things can get twisted in an internet forum, and the slightest hint of a bad result can lead to an avalanche of criticism and doubt....I feel that I owe this to Dr. Shapiro....I owe it to him because if I can doubt him even after an excellent result considering , just due to hearsay and innuendo, what about the people who have never been affiliated with him....or had the pleasure of meeting him...or viewing his work....I know both Matt and Dr Shapiro are aware that I had my doubts and could easily have brushed me aside......instead, they went the extra mile to make sure that everything went right, that we were all on the same page this time, and that plans for the future were mapped out. I was treated with complete respect and received a world class procedure....I could include so much more, but this post is ridiculously long already..... Shapiro can and will do the big sessions, if you are a candidate.....for me, I'm glad I did mine in two.....we learned how I react to surgery, my yield, my hair characteristics, and were able to establish a base to build from......Would I like to have done the whole thing in one shot, had it come off without a hitch, no need for any fine tuning and a perfect result....yeah man.......I also wish I never lost my hair...and a 12 in. dick would be cool too.... Now, before everyone starts bustin on me saying that I'm doubting the mega session that Hasson is doing, or trying to discredit them or their clinic, I want to say that that is not the intent of this post. Nor is it what I am saying....Although I have never had work done by Dr Hasson, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to sit in his chair....In fact, the post really doesn't pertain to H&W at all...I think it's a matter of approach....We live in a fast paced world dominated by instant gratification, and the thought of one pass procedure is very appealing.....If you are a candidate for it, I say, by all means, go for it....But weigh all the options....meds, laxity, donor, future recession, hair characteristics, realistic expectations, age, ethnicity...the list goes on..... What is my intention?...Clarification....These forums are a powerful venue. I don't want to see a man of integrity, who operates at the highest level of professionalism and is at the cutting edge of his field, get an undeserved blemish on his reputation......especially if I helped to create it...or to see people doubt his skills, approach or capability. The man CARES about his patients, his reputation and his work....Its not all about the $$$...its about empathy and humility....making his patients happy and getting them back to a normal life...It hard to grasp how he relates to the pain and fear related to hair loss, because he does not suffer from it....but he does... Don't believe everything you read guys......don't believe this if ya don't wanna.....but I can promise you this, if you have surgery with Dr. Ron Shapiro, you are with one of the best, if not THE BEST, hair transplant surgeons in the world. Educate yourself fully on what to expect, and know that this is a bumpy road to say the least.... In an industry filled with scams and deception, it's refreshing to know that someone comes from the heart... To Dr Shapiro...all my respect to you...as both a physician and as a man....I'm humbled as a result of our association.

Well, here goes guys...got a lot to say here...hopefully it will all come out right...Take a few minutes and read it to the end.... You guys might remember my posts and my apprehension regarding my second procedure, and my questioning my results of my first procedure. To start, let's focus on the first procedure....I had in done in Jan of '05... At the time of the initial surgery, I had researched what I felt was a reasonable amount and narrowed my choices to H&W and Dr Ron Shapiro. Quite honestly, I don't remember what the tipping point was for me, both are top notch, but I eventually choose Doc. My hair is course, heavy, wiry and thick in diameter, excellent in regards to density and the appearance of fullness after surgery, yet hard to predict from a surgeons standpoint....i.e....in some cases, although a graph incision is angled perfectly, when the hair grows, the initial angle is correct as to symmetry to adjacent hairs, only to wave and change directions....making predicting the characteristics increasingly difficult...I was a NW 5v, yet my thinning was diffuse....had never used Propecia, but was using Minox 2x daily and irregularly the Hairmax laser comb. Basically, I had no hairline, and my frontal third was almost all gone minus a tuft in the frontal forelock. We decided to concentrate on creating a hairline and working back within the frontal third, ignoring the crown at this time.... The surgery went well and I was excited about the prospects....in my mind, I though that with this procedure and the minox and the other products that I was dabbling with at the time, and maybe some dermatch, I would be good to go.....I remember asking Doc after the procedure how happy he thought I would be, and he told me about an 8 out of ten, since I already have some hair. The initial downside of the procedure was the haircut.....I was basically shaved up front, and since I never told anyone I had the work done, I was stuck in a hat for 5 months....just part of the process....My donor density is slightly above average as well as my laxity, kinda tight but not bad. I didn't have the trico closure and the suture method was staples....I photographically documented daily at first, then weekly, then month by month. My staples were painful, had a lot of crust on them and always seemed inflamed. I couldn't sleep much at all for the first week or two. I actually called Doc for a refill on the vicodens, which he agreed to, apprehensively. I remember him saying that it's not common that he sees the need for this, but, during the procedure, it also required an abnormal amount of anesthetic to numb the area, and had to be reapplied frequently, so he correlated the need to hypersensitivity in the area. I found a girl to cut my hair that lives a good distance from my hometown...I remember asking her to take me in the back of the salon before I'd take off my hat...she even went as far as to make a file to document my growth....At about 7 months, I was finally able to get a haircut where all the areas could be blended....the donor had covered, and the front had grown in sufficiently....The transplanted area was thick and dense, but had some areas that concerned me....an area on one side of my hairline (approx 10-20 hairs) seemed to grow downward, and the transplanted hairs in the frontal forelock, although growing, weren't growing at the same rate of my preexisting hair. My scar was red and I got pimples on it a lot and was uncomfortable...where it commenced above my right ear it was a bit wider than in the occipital area. The thing that bothered me most is that it didn't blend at the lateral humps, therefore limiting my styling options. I was getting paranoid....Started thinking I had a yield problem, started thinking that everything had went wrong....As an aside here, no one had ever noticed that I had a transplant...I'd get comments like ."Hey, your hair looks good"' or "are you using Just for Men" and stuff like that.....but to me, it wasn't just right.... So I'm back to the forums....reading nonstop...for hours each day...Dr Shapiro is regarded as one of the best in the industry, but I was full of doubt....why wasn't my hair "perfect"? I talked with Matt on a number of occasions and he assured me that everything was fine and I just needed some fine tuning with a second procedure....but, what if that wasn't the case? I started seeing some things posted here about Dr. Shapiro that I though were questionable, only to find them deleted.....and all the buzz was H&W, on all the boards...the big sessions, the amazing one pass results. So I start thinking, hey, maybe Dr. Shapiro isn't the best one to go to anymore...maybe its H&W, maybe Shapiro's time has come and gone.....maybe he hasn't evolved and others have passed him up and he's living off reputation....a rep so strong that people don't say anything negative in a public forum in relation to him.... By now I'm doubting whether or not I should go back....I called H&W and talked with Ferkie on a number of occasions....sent him all my photos and considered booking with him....had a lot of long conversations...I even had him show the pics to Dr. Hasson...Ferkies reaction...."just as I suspected...awesome results"....Dr Hasson said the same thing....and even questioned what I expected, and if it was realistic......But I'm so paranoid now, I'm thinking its out of professional courtesy......Then, the subject of other docs come up and the tune changes.....not very much praise..... By now I'm at the juncture where I'm seriously confused...it seems the more that I learn, the less that I know for sure, I mean, how do you really know? Obviously Matt is gonna be for Dr Shapiro and Ferkie is gonna be for Dr Hasson. ************************************************************************************************* I gave all the above details and scenario to paint a picture of what I was feeling and, more importantly, how I was made to fell that way...As the industry evolves, we as patients seem to expect everything to be perfect...with the new procedures and technology, everything should always be just right ....perfect in fact....a vision in ones mind.... I chose Dr Shapiro for my second surgery. Am I glad that I did....ABSOLUTLY!!!! And here is why....Hair transplantation made simple....Harvest the donor without damage to surrounding tissue and without follicle transsection....Closure....Dr Shapiro recently posted about his views on this....Instrumentation....Shapiro uses custom cut blades.....trimming the surrounding tissue from the donor harvest as much as possible to avoid follicle damage....magnification.....10x for Shapiro,....now through this, he has created an incision that is customized to the finely trimmed graph...the 10x sorts rules out transsection....where else is there to go....incision angle, artistry, skill, experience, approach, placement ....Doc has all of them... In reference to my above concerns about my first procedure, first let me address the issue of the scar.....I told you that I had redness and discomfort....Dr Shapiro and I were talking about the suture method, staples or stitches, during my second procedure. Also, we talked about the possible reasons that could have caused my scar to be larger that anticipated. He ran through a long checklist of which I cannot remember all, but one of the factors was infection....I told him that when my staples were removed they were crusty and bled, and that it was very painful.....the pain continued after the removal along with swelling....I didn't know any better, I thought it was normal...I also used products on my donor area other than were recommended. And, on top of that, I was back at the gym lifting way too soon after surgery.......forget about not tuckin my chin; I was bustin out squats.... We had a long consult the day before my surgery and the day of the surgery....I ended up getting the trico closure and having a small section of the scar excised at the expense of a few less graphs.....Not only do I have staples, but Dr Shapiro put internal stitches to help ensure that I did not have issue again, along with the preventative measure of prescribing an antibiotic to prevent infection this time. The lateral humps just needed a slight blend and the vertex and crown were also addressed. .I spoke above about magnification....Doc uses a 10x magnification....I was even privileged to see it in action as he linked it to a screen and let me view some incisions....With the recipient area being shaved, coupled with this magnification, the incidence of transsection of native hairs is virtually eliminated....also, imo, the added magnification will help to prevent shockloss. For those of you in the know, the standard in the industry is 6x.... I sit red faced as I reflect on my doubts...The lengths that Dr Shapiro went to ensure that I get the best possible result go far and beyond what one could expect....His attention to detail, his artistry, his compassion and empathy cannot be understated....I mean, I had a great result with awesome one pass density and I'm still questioning....He is also one of the most humble and gracious men I have ever met....This may sound over the top to some, but I actually feel honored to have been afforded the privilege to have him perform my surgery......A lot of it stems from my guilt of having apprehension.... Lots of things can get twisted in an internet forum, and the slightest hint of a bad result can lead to an avalanche of criticism and doubt....I feel that I owe this to Dr. Shapiro....I owe it to him because if I can doubt him even after an excellent result considering , just due to hearsay and innuendo, what about the people who have never been affiliated with him....or had the pleasure of meeting him...or viewing his work....I know both Matt and Dr Shapiro are aware that I had my doubts and could easily have brushed me aside......instead, they went the extra mile to make sure that everything went right, that we were all on the same page this time, and that plans for the future were mapped out. I was treated with complete respect and received a world class procedure....I could include so much more, but this post is ridiculously long already..... Shapiro can and will do the big sessions, if you are a candidate.....for me, I'm glad I did mine in two.....we learned how I react to surgery, my yield, my hair characteristics, and were able to establish a base to build from......Would I like to have done the whole thing in one shot, had it come off without a hitch, no need for any fine tuning and a perfect result....yeah man.......I also wish I never lost my hair...and a 12 in. dick would be cool too.... Now, before everyone starts bustin on me saying that I'm doubting the mega session that Hasson is doing, or trying to discredit them or their clinic, I want to say that that is not the intent of this post. Nor is it what I am saying....Although I have never had work done by Dr Hasson, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to sit in his chair....In fact, the post really doesn't pertain to H&W at all...I think it's a matter of approach....We live in a fast paced world dominated by instant gratification, and the thought of one pass procedure is very appealing.....If you are a candidate for it, I say, by all means, go for it....But weigh all the options....meds, laxity, donor, future recession, hair characteristics, realistic expectations, age, ethnicity...the list goes on..... What is my intention?...Clarification....These forums are a powerful venue. I don't want to see a man of integrity, who operates at the highest level of professionalism and is at the cutting edge of his field, get an undeserved blemish on his reputation......especially if I helped to create it...or to see people doubt his skills, approach or capability. The man CARES about his patients, his reputation and his work....Its not all about the $$$...its about empathy and humility....making his patients happy and getting them back to a normal life...It hard to grasp how he relates to the pain and fear related to hair loss, because he does not suffer from it....but he does... Don't believe everything you read guys......don't believe this if ya don't wanna.....but I can promise you this, if you have surgery with Dr. Ron Shapiro, you are with one of the best, if not THE BEST, hair transplant surgeons in the world. Educate yourself fully on what to expect, and know that this is a bumpy road to say the least.... In an industry filled with scams and deception, it's refreshing to know that someone comes from the heart... To Dr Shapiro...all my respect to you...as both a physician and as a man....I'm humbled as a result of our association.

So, scalp laxity and skin collagen dont play any role in the determination? I agree that hair thru a scar is better, but are there no other determining factors?

Robert, Gotta disagree with you there....yeah, the placebo effect is very real and I agree with you there, but as far as the 2%, I think that is drastically lower than the actual amounts, and many users have permanent irreversible side effects..... Mercks study state that the sexual sides reduced in the 5 yr vs. the two year....wonder why? My deduction is that, in the one yr study, the guys that had the sex sides quit, so they are out of the study, and the ones that tolerated continued, thus the lower # of reported sexual sides.... I would love to have the effects to reverse and stop further loss, but the fact is that when dealing with hormones, its not universal across the board....to me its a roll of the dice that im not willing to take...I keep trying top talk myself into it, but doing reasearch always throws up more red flags for me...... check out this site.... http://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=20788&name=PROPECIA I could paste lots more...and the fact is that noone knows what the long term effects of the drug will be....thereotically, one could realistically take Propecia/proscar for 50+ years...thats a long time to be fu#$in with your hormones.... And another, it doesnt work for everyone.... Just my opinion.....I have been almost universally advised by everyone to take finasteride, but to me, its too much of a risk...

I use am Crew shampoo and conditioner....I like em, but was recently asking for basically the same...anything better.....Hear alot about Nioxin, which I tried for a long time without result....

Thats what I am askin you Joe....