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Danielkiwi

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Posts posted by Danielkiwi

  1. And you are just PREJUDICED because of your own PERSONAL experiences with finasteride. This is completely obvious.

     

    I've been taking the drug for over 11 years now. I have no brain fog, no depression, and no erection problems. I am in the majority and you are in the minority.

     

    I have a photographic memory and graduated at the top of my class as a philosophy major at a very difficult jesuit university. My IQ has been measured in the 140 range, both before and after finasteride use. NONE of my mental faculties have been hindered in any way from finasteride use; and if this were the case then someone like myself would DEFINITELY be acutely aware of it.

     

    Clueless ? Hardly, my friend. I'm just one of the more fortunate people and you are one of the less fortunate -- it's really that simple!

     

    And concerning depression being a phenomenon related to post-modern industrial culture and the rampant apathy that inevitably accompanies it, if any one of us here were to find ourselves stranded on a deserted island would we really have the time to be depressed ? Or would we be too occupied with the overwhelmingly challenging task of mere survival ?

     

    Think on that one! It's something that I wrote extensively about in college.

     

     

    I think that ES makes some excellent points here and in his previous posts...i am sure living in the primitive society, where people are farming and working hard, there would be no signs of depression! there is just too much pressure and stress these days and we are constantly worrying about pleasing the society etc!!!..i am a lil stressed these days for some personal issues and it might be that propecia just pushed me over the hill or maybe, it is just my mind imagining...there is no definitive answer for this..but i can say one thing for sure...it is a good drug and helped thicken my hair....i gave it a shot and everyone considering a HT should...the problem with me was the sides made me feel like i have never before and it was definitely not worth it for me...i am just concentrating on living healthy at the moment and hoping everything falls in to place..but i atleast tried and will have no regrets!!!

  2. Yeah ES. That would really be awesome..hopefulle, they come up with something in our generation. I think it is pretty ironic that man has reached the moon, can clone arms, legs but cannot do anything for a follicle!!

     

    Having said that, i am getting used to the idea of being bald coz i feel i am not a good HT candidate (I have below average donor density as well) at this time and i feel a lot better pshycologically having accepted that...my girl is fine with that as well..but as your father said, a mans mind changes every 4-5 years, who knows what i will be thinking 4-5 years down the road..hell, i dont know what i will be thinking 4-5 months from now

  3. No problems dude...i share your view points in a lot of ways and i personally think you are the most ideal Ht candidate there could possibly be. You have gone to the best HT surgeon on this planet and seem to have covered all your bases. Fin is working for you with no side effects and trust me, i am happy for you...you have done everything you possibly could and the rest is beyond your hand...

     

    As for me and some other people, Fin has side effects coz every body is different...if fin worked for me, i would get a HT without hesitation...but i dont think i want to do a HT and try to ride out the sides of FIn..coz after 5 years, if the sides become more unbearable, there would be no where to go...to me that is more disastrous than having a buzzed head! Hence, my only request to you is not to try and convince people to continue on meds coz those who get the sides exactly know how it feels and you might never get feeling!!!

     

    As far as the exercise comment is concerned, please ignore...it was in the heat of the moment..i think every kind of exercise is good and no body has the right to judge anyone..

     

    Happy growing

  4. 6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?

     

    6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.

     

    Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.

     

    I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!

     

    Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !

     

    My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.

     

    Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!

     

    I dont think there was a need for this nasty post but since you have bought it up, let me share my thoughts!!!

     

    ES. some of your theories continue to amaze me..First of all, i personally think drugs are for sick people and i think you have become a slave to this drug and will be for life since you have had a mega FUT...hence, you always viciously try to defend this drug at every given opportunity!!!even after that, there is no guarantee that fin will keep all your native hair all your life...and guess what, after that, you will need to go on the chair multiple times and that pencil thin scar you continue to talk about would not be pencil thin any more....IMO, HT's will only buy time and that is it

     

    Secondly, i have always been a fitness freak and positive individual all my life and i have never felt like this before being on propecia....i never needed a belt to wake me up from the bed as i am self motivated to wake up at 6 am and hit the gym like a man and not take the easy way out by biking like a woman!!

     

    And yes will power and mind is a strong thing!!! then why not use these forces to live healthy, exercise and not worry about being a salve to a tablet and hair which everybody is going to loose someday!! To me, everyone including myself who has had a HT or is considering one are weak people in the mind in some way or the other..if you have the b***s, shave your head and live like a man instead of doing all this cosmetic suff...every one knows what the world thinks about old women who get liposuctions, breast implants etc done to look young. To me, we are exactly like these old women and perharps girls think the same about us...if mind needs to be conqured, why not use the will power to remain bald and not take a tablet like a sick man!!!

  5. Hi Garet

     

    I totally understand where you are coming from as i have been through this ordeal myself. i took propecia for about 3 months. Around the 2 week mark, i started experiencing extreme anxiety, brain fog and depression...i had feelings that i have never experienced before and i am 33 and have been through various tough stages in life!!!...I am sure everybody gets depresssed here and there but this looked like extreme depression...there were times that i could not get up from the bed in the morning..i als had some ED issues...i have discontinued prop for a month now and the ED issues have gone completely...there is still some lingering depressive thoughts but not as extreme as when i was on prop...i am trying to stay fit by hitting the gym and eating rite...weight training really makes me fee good...i am also going to see a endocronologist to see if propecia has not messed up my hormones...maybe, you could do the same if the sides persist..Good luck

  6. everybody is groing well while it looks i had to be the biggest sucker in those forums to waist 3800 grafts and 20.000 in order to look worse than before and get a depleted and unnatural donor . at this end this guy will be looking better than me with 5500 and nw6 while i started as a nw3-4 and a total of 8000 g.

     

    I guess i should be happy cause while didnt get any results i still have the nice post op black bandana..

     

    Hi Tsakolos

     

    I have noticed in a bunch of threads about your dissatisfaction with your HT but i havent read anywhere about your experience in detail. Who was your HT surgeon? Also how many surgeries and grafts have you had? Are you on propecia and can you please share some pictures so that people like me on the fence can decide about our own HT's...Also, what do you mean about the depleted donor area..have you shared your concerns with your surgeon at all

  7. Thanks taking the plunge and Daniel Kiwi.

     

    Taking the Plunge, thats a really detailed breakout and many thanks, exactly the kind of info, that makes sense and allows me to understand the pros and cons.

     

    Did you get any hair growth with the Fin?

     

    DanielKiwi,

     

    Hey you are an expat. Cool. Glad to know you understood my concerns. I totally agree with you that the US is awesome for more liberalism when it comes to going "sly" or whatever they call it. Here, no snarkiness intended but even well read, educated people make stupid comments on the most genuine of issues. A few years back, a friend shaved off his head because of alopecia, to be honest, I was in my own stresstrap at the point and didnt understand what he meant when he said alopecia ...now, I have another balding acquaintance a couple of days back, mocking that individual for his choice. I would have said "looked at your self anytime, mister?" but then whats the point, people are so caught up and conditioned by what society and generally peer pressure expects them to be, that they are unable to understand how they behave and why. Sorry, a bit of a rant, but needed to get it off my chest. In the US though, I did see a lot of guys with "buzz cuts" or totally shaved off, which appeared to be pretty common. Over here, till date, I have only seen a handful of folks with close haircuts, and only one who shaved his head.

     

    I exactly get that..i had a similiar experience the last time i was in India..this guy with a complete diffused look was mocking another friend of mine for shaving it off...if i was in my element, i would have given the diffused guy a hard time but i did not want to get the attention on my hair itself...lol...but i think it also depends on what city in india you are from..i am from mumbai and it is a lot better than some of the other cities...what city are you from? Also, i noticed that people are too judgemental in our society and will point out your balding head at every opportunity to mock you!! I am glad i live in the US for this reason...people are not very judgemental here...also, i think if you are married in india, for some reason people are fine with you being bald..wierd..but i am sure you concur with me..just move to the US man..

     

    and as far as sides are concerned, i pretty much think they go away after continued usage...so, give it a shot man...also, i saw somewhere that you were looking into QR678...were you able to get any info on that...i am travelling to India this november and might give it a shot

  8. Tha pain was not severe at all....it was just a discomfort enough to trouble me throughout the day on days i felt it..i did not feel the discomfort on every day..i started finpecia once a day but after maybe 5 or so months reduced the dosage to EOD...i think effect was still pretty good..i think 1mg a day is pretty much overkill!!! As far as minox is concerned, i have been using it for almost 7 years now...and never felt any sides..i guess i was younger and did not fear anything in life..hence, maybe sides did not bother me...i think it comes down a lot to your psycological issues and yes, i really hope they come up with something nice to keep hair..it is funny man has reached the moon , can clone legs and arms but not hair!!!

     

    Honestly, i know it is difficult but i have begun to accept it for now..remember, you are not the first neither the last man to suffer hair loss..there are much more things to worry about in life..just pray to god to keep you healthy and everything else will fall into place!!!you had mentioned earlier that you are from india and it is not accepted with open arms in that country..i too am from india but live in the US these days and i completely understand...but you know what if a girl is superficial enough to not like you for your hair, she is not going to find you any more attractive once she know you had a HT!!!! just my two cents

  9. Hi Akash

     

    First of all, forget about the six month period. You will pretty much need to be on it for the rest of your life..As far as sides are concerned, let me share my side of the story..i first started taking finpecia couple of years back...great for my hair, some ED sides but not that terrified me or something..i was in pretty good shape those days (working out 5 days a week), no mental issues etc....started once a day but reduced to every other day after 6 months to reduce the ED issues...after one year, i started noticing a weird pain in my groin/testicles area..not sure if i want to atttribute that to Finpecia coz i was lifting heavy weights as well...but that pain refused to go away even after i stopped working out for three months..hence, i quit finpecia....the pain lasted for about 9 mos. or something...in the meantime i also started working out again...hence, i am not sure if i attribute this pain to finpecia but it is one of the sides mentioned on the website...the pain went away completely after 9 mos..however, i lost a lot of hair in that period and my mental state was not the most upbeat during that period..i decided to give propecia a shot...tried it for 3 monts nut guess what, i suffered really bad this time with ED, Brain fog, anxiety, depression..so much so that i threw the bottle out of my house...whether it is psychological or not, i leave it up to you to decide..but the point is, if you are not mentally strong, you will start blaming it for everything bad that happens to you..i personally feel that is what happened to me..i was at a very low point in my life when i started propecia for 3 mos..and hence faced depression sides...however, i would still encourage you to try it..start with a low dosage maybe once every three days and then if you dont get sides, bump it up...try to be a little positive in life, work out in he gym and see how it goes..atleast you will have no regrets of not trying..for me personally, at this point in my life, i would rather be bald, the deal with the anxiety of what propecia is doing inside my body..please dont hesitate to ask if you need additional information..best wishes, dan

  10. I usually buy them at Iherb and sometimes swanson. Sometimes swanson has the same brand for slightly cheaper. Its a lot cheaper overall than going to a vitamin store.

     

    You can possibly get sides from Saw. They just wont be as powerful as those you got from fin. So don't expect the same. Fin also effects more than one outlet. It effects the neurosteroids as well. It completely messes with your hormonal conversion. Some theorize that saw doesn't effect serum DHT levels. But the androgen receptors

     

     

    Alternatives to fin? Do you mean solely DHT blockers? Or the new cutting edge stuff being explored like growth factors?

     

    Hi Swimmy

     

    I would be interested in learning about the new growth factors. Have you had experience using any of those? Have you heard about renokin...it seems to have good reviews

  11. Nice post BenUK....what really cracked me up was the Sikh part..I am from that part of the world but not a sikh....as kids we would make fun of my sikh friends coz of the turban and how they did not have much luck in dating with all that head and facial hair..and now, i secretely wish that i was born as a Sikh..hell, i was almost contemplating converting to sikhism as i speak their language as well....and guess what, i have seen some white sikhs here in the US..they look a little odd but who cares, atleast they dont have to worry about concealers, rogaine, propecia etc..i even asked my mom about converting but she just laughed about it and thinks it is no big deal with loosing hair!!!btw, the females in that religion are really gorgeous...and they pretty much mary in the same religion...

  12. Hi BCC13

     

    I took a look at your pictures and noticed that there are small holes all over your scalp...how many grafts did you get. I am not sure if that is normal coz i was told with top quality surgeons there is no scarring in the recipient area...maybe others can chime in as well and share their experiences...i do want to wish you all the best in the coming months...i think the hard part is about to get over and it can only get better from here!!!

  13. Hi Swimmy

     

    Thanks for taking the time to respond to our questions..I asked my homeopathic doctor about the ingredients and she said that there are a number of plants and other herbs that go in the solution..she did not give me the names but i trust her since she has given me effective medicine for some of the other problems i have had..If you want i will probe her in more detail when i go to india next month..

     

    all the supplements that you mentioned, where can one buy them..Do they have any side effects. I wanted to ask you Saw Palmetto in more detail. If SP also inhibits DHT(in fact both kinds of DHT), and Fin reduced only one, then why would i not get sides with SP..

     

    By alternate medicine, i meant what ever except Fin..i have had such a terrible time with Fin that i dont want to go anywhere near it...That would include either topicals or pills..i am using rogaine currently

  14. Yes RCwest. I absolutely agree with you. It would be really helpful if Swimmy can list down some valuable information here.

     

    Question for Swimmy - I have tried propecia off and on...recently, i had major side effects which included brain fog, depression, anxiety (to a point i could not get up in the morning) and ofcourse ED..I could live with the ED part of it but it was the other stuff that got me scared. I have never felt like this before and i am 33..i stopped taking it 3 weeks back and i feel better now...I am taking homeopathic medicine from India currently but live in the US..What do you think about homeopathic medicine...In addition i am taking Zinc 50mg, Biotion 5000 mg, Rogaine 5% liquid...One of the doctors told me to get on MSM..What do you think about MSM? The same doctor also told me to get on Saw palmetto. but i am hesistant..the reason is because it blocks DHT as well, then why would i not get any side effects from SP? I would really appreciate your response to my post and maybe you can list down some alternative medicine as well..Thanks

  15. Garet,

     

    If you ever intend on wanting to shave your head to the skin like in those scar pics you posted, then just forget about ANY type of HT -- period ! I have seen pics of numerous FUE patients shaved like that and there were white dots everywhere and others with a swiss-cheese look. The bottom line is that this is surgery and there WILL be scarring no matter how good the doc is. If you have 2500 FUE grafts extracted and shave down to that level then chances are high you WILL be able to see the dots in the back of your head! Choose your poison -- strip or FUE.

     

    Scar5,

     

    When I said my scar "will only get better from here" I meant that the redness will continue to subside and should be gone completely by 6 months. I am only 3.3 months post-op; so YES, my scar will indeed look better and be less noticable than it is now in the coming months. But even as it is now is a total non-issue to me.

     

    DanielKiwi,

     

    How is it that you can recommend FUE to Garet when you haven't even had any type of procedure yourself yet ? You mention having the option to "throw in the towel" and to me that is basically expecting failure from the start and being OK with that. Why not just throw in the towel now and save ALOT of money and potential heartache by just not getting any type of HT and accepting baldness ? What makes you think you will still have the shaving your head to the skin option after FUE surgeries of thousands of grafts ? Because you've seen a few pictures online where it seemed somebody else (who consults for a clinic) could get away with it ? Body hair, really ? You would consider that a better option than a lush, dense URFUT HT and a thin tricho strip scar ? Have you yet seen FUE patients in person who have buzzed the back of their head to skin and have 0 noticable scarring ? And why would you not choose Dr. Feller for FUE ? Do you think he is not very good at it ? Or is it perhaps because he is honest about how limited the procedure is for somebody expecting a "lush" looking HT result ?

     

     

    Sometimes I feel forums can actually do more harm than good for prospective HT patients. Garet, if you have not met with several patients in person then you have no business scheduling any type of HT. This is an absolutely CRUCIAL part of your research! After meeting some patients in person you might very well feel ALOT more comfortable about going thru with a strip surgery -- I know I sure did!

     

    ES, first of all i dont know what is your definition of a lush looking HT..Everybody who has done a little research knows that HT creates an illusion of hair at best!!!And what i meant with throwing in the towel is to be able to buzz to No.1 or No.2 without a smiley face on the back of your head screaming for attention. I have seen a couple of patients with a no.2 buzz after FUE with no sign of scarring at all...i have not seen anybody shaved to the skin and i think it would be realistic to see some kind of scarring. However, FUE would still give you an option of having a neat hair cut instead of having a mullet and worrying about sides dropping for the rest of your life. You seem to suggest that you have seen FUE results like a swiss cheese. Can you specify what doctor it was? I have also seen buthered up scars from numerous strip surgeries. Lets make sure we are comparing apples to apples (ie top notch doctors). Also, you seem to be lucky in not having sides with finasteride..However, what if a patient starts getting side effects after the HT is done..Sides can come anytime and the meds can also loose effectiveness...in that case, the patient might try to still take finasteride for fear of his HT looking unnatural..not a healthy way to live imho..Also, i firmly beleive in less is more philosophy for a HT and FUE certainly gives you the option of buzzing your hair. Body hair can be used to cover the crown area and when you decide to buzz your hair, who cares about so called "lush URFUT" that will still look thin under certain light conditions..if you ask any chick what looks hot between someone who has a lush looking frontal third and bald crown and someone who has a no.2 buzz allover without the "lush" feel, you will get your answer right there!! To me it is a smart decision to have an option to throw in the towel rather than enter a one way prision with a point of no return and a life time of misery.. Future hair loss is uncertain, meds could start givinig sides anytime, nobody has seen the future...trying to cross a bridge without knowing the no. planks is foolish imo....and yes everybody who is on this forum would love to shave their head and be done with it..but it is not easy at all. We need to see what is available and select the best option...as you say choose your poison..A poison which gives you an outside chance to survive is better i think???

  16. First of all dude, have you met the doctor himself. It would be foolish to commit to the surgery without the doctor using the densometer and estimating how many grafts you have in totality. He also needs to do a miniaturization test and determine the quality of your native hair..Please dont base your decision by meeting with the consultant

  17. Daniel kiwi, i was reading your post and let me get the facts right. You started developing sides and discontinue. However, u din mention how the HT results were. Satisfactory? Unfortunately, for those who have continuing hair loss, multiple surgeries are needed hence it feels like a one way ticket to prison.. it sucks but thats the truth. However, that does not diminish the results of a successful HT, that is if you had one as u din mention.

     

    Density check? U mean the estimated donors the doc can extract from the strip? Or miniaturization test?

     

    I live in Asia ( same as Garet so i m not sure abt FUE docs in US but i gathered there are quite a few... however, i prefer not to comment as i am in no position to do that!

     

    i am sorry wb 280..I forgot to mention. i cancelled the surgery after i developed sides as i thought a partially bald head with a smily scar would be worse than buzzing down and balding naturally..I could have done the surgery if i did not have sides but who knows what sides you are going to get long term by blocking DHT and creating hormonal imbalances...not worth it IMHO but every bodies body responds differently..

     

    With respect to density check, i meant estimated donor i could get by maximising strip surgery...the doctor never did a density check but looked at my donor hair and said that i had great laxity and density.. it turns out that my density is not that great when another doctor used the densometer for me!!! i feel blessed to have cancelled the surgery for now..i think it is extremely important to know how many stones you have before you can begin contructing a bridge..Did Dr. path do this test for you?

     

    As far as FUE doctors in the US, please tell me if you know if your research can help us..I gather Dr. Feller is pretty good but $10 a graft is insane amout of money..Also, he does not seem to recommend FUE..I hear Dr. Shapiro is good too, is reasonable but a lot of his patients have not posted after pictures..i dont know what to make of that...Dr. Umar is good too but secrecy about his tools does not inspire confidence..anybody else you can think of??

  18. Please tell me, who are these FUE surgeons you speak of, and where are they? Please give me a couple of names. I live in Asia now, and the best surgeons here do only FUT. Most of the doctors I spoke with will only do FUE for eyebrow transplants or scar restoration.

     

    I will be in Canada next spring, and could possibly take the trip into the states if that is where the best affordable FUE doctors are.

     

    Garet

     

    I kinda agree with Scar 5 right now. Also, it looks like he has been there and done that. I dont have the experience of HT surgery to claim anything but beleive that i have done enough research for the past 3 years to give my advice to you..I had booked my FUT session with a top 3 doctor on this forum and everything looked rosy. He convinced me to get on propecia for around six months prior to the surgery and so i did..In the beginning everything was fine and i also saw great improvement in my hair..but suddenly, i started developing sides and had to discontinue...That actually opened my eyes and i thought that i would be fighting a life long battle with meds, scar, continious surgery, one way prison etc..The doctor who i had consulted with never did a density check on my donor hair and he told me that they will target 2500+ grafts, start in the beginning and then go to the back depending on how many grafts they can obtain..in hindsight, i feel like a fool to commit to surgery on that response..I actually selected him based on the reputation on this forum and am not sure if this forum has this in their standard of recommending doctors. If a doctor cannot do a density check and tell you how many grafts you can precisely get, i think there is a big red flag right there!!

     

    Anyways, coming back to your point, i think it is very important to have an option to throw in the towel because the future is uncertain..Nobody knows how much hair you are going to loose, if your body is willing to take finasteride all your life...I dont think all this mental suffering is worth it..FUE gives you an option and i totally recommend it!!! now the key question is to choose the correct doctor..Do your research in multiple forums and you will be able to shortlist some doctors who do good quality FUE at an affordable price...

     

    For starters, I would look into Dr. Bisanga, Feriduni in Belgium and Dr. Keser in Turkey..I live in the US and would love to find a good FUE doctor who has confidence in his work, is affordable and knows what he is doing. unfortunately, my research has not yielded any doctor in the US yet but who knows!! Remember, you can also use Body hair to augment the crown area..FUE gives you a ton of options even buzzing to no.1 in the right hands and i totally recommend it!!!

  19. I don't feel that the injury of a recipient incision is worth the tradeoff of putting a follicle/hair in there that is unlikely to end up being a full terminal hair. Mike Beehner, M.D.

     

    Hello Doctor, Can you please elaborate on the injury of recipient area. What are the possible damages that can be caused by these injuries. Does incision in the recipient areas cause any kind of scarring? Does it damage the nearby grafts?

  20. My understanding is that shock loss will eventually come back. But i may be wrong. Did you call Dr. Shapiro to discuss the same? Were your hair transplanted between the native hair and if so, did you have a lot of native hair. I know i was turned down by Dr. Bernstien just because of this reason as i had a significant amount of native hair..But dont panic, please call the doctor. He is top notch and will address your issues

  21. Hi Garet

     

    What website is it? I dont think the moderators on this forum would mind you sharing information about that website since this is a pretty open forum...Having said that, there is a place for FUE in the world for HT depending on your goals...If somebody says you are not a FUE candidate, you need to ask why? Also, this is a cosmetice procedure and you have the right to make a decision..If you want to wear your hair short, that throws FUT out of the window...so, i can say you are not a FUT candidate..people also talk about how scars are getting thinner these days..that is correct but when you end up doing multiple procedures (which every HT patient will end up doing), the scar will no longer be thin....remember FUT is a one way prison from where there is no looking back...however, with FUE, there are a number of options, you could use BHT on the crown, buzz the hair and not look like a mullet!!!It all depends on what you are looking for...I was anti FUE in the beginning but after doing research for a couple of years, i have seen a lot of FUT failures as well even in the best of hands...if you want to do FUE, find an excellent surgeon who is not negative about the procedure in the first place (majority of the doctors i consulted on this network are), get a small procedure of 500 grafts to get a feel and then go for it completely..remember, you will always have an option to throw in the towel which you dont have with strip..lets say 5 years down the road, prop starts giving serious sides..what will you do at that point?

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