lost my swagger

im not sure if i missed something or not but i dont think the hostility is needed.. all that matters is the guy got warned and apparently will not go thru with the MHR procedure... this is the most important thing as its prob the very best thing for him...

also they could have kept the 750 but if hes gonna get a perscription at least its something. even though it is still a rip off.... consider yourself lucky mpkoons.

cant we all just get along?

Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

If M.H.R. doctors are "pocket-lining salesman," there's no reason a coalition-physician is not one.

CuriousJungle,

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Can you explain this statement please?

Or perhaps Swagger can since he seems to be enthusastically agreeing with it.

Bill

Bill allow me to answer for curious and then address my post...

curious was disagreeing with my statment about MHR being in this for the money and not the 'well being' of the patient.. i believe his argument was that just because MHR, as a whole, is not great at what they do it does not mean they are 'money hungry a** holes'.....

I, however, thru the use of my amazing intellect was able to artistically subtract the one statment he made, and use it to get my own opinion across. in the process it might appear that curious is comparing MHR with coalition doc, with regards to their true intentions.... he is NOT. this is evident if you read curious's entire post....

i can assure you that I am the bad guy here

it is my opinion that many docs preforming this procedure today are in this for the money first.. no matter their skill level... does that mean all are?? absolutely not..

also, not sure why you say im "enthusastically" in agreement... i didnt even use CAPS or a !!!

Shadow of the EMpire State---- absolutely GREAT post....... all young guys should hear your words

imissthebarber-- waiting is also just tuff to do PERIOD... young guys prob care about keeping their HT a secret a little more than older more advanced NW.. often i think they are just THRILLED to death to actually have some hair up top again.. i think thats the case with this guy.. i get what you are sayin, for sure..

Cant decide-- ill start bu saying that i think this guy has exaused ATLEAST half his donor although we are both just seculating im prob right...ive seen results like this from ALL 3 of the drs you have named. often there is just only so much that can be done.... feller typically does not post that many high NW patients when he posts his own results. native hair is paramount in most of them.. when that is the case your right he can 'dense up' the patients front third to a greater degree but here it the kicker! he uses more grafts to get there typically.. almost ALL these guys would be left with thin or bald crowns should the meds lose effectivness(which they have been shown to do) and the native hair be lost

i think your comment about these few being about to do more with the same amount is only HALF correct.... your last statment.--- "While we all know that you cannot expect incredibly thick density, the guy you posted came out with very thin density in my opinion and I think one can expect far better in one pass."---- i do not believe this statment to be very accurate... in ONE pass from any of those docs this guys results would be VERY close to what they are... the super duper amazing results you will see posted all the time either A. include LOTS of native hair(that without would make the 'stand alone' transplant not near as impressive) or B. they have had MULTIPLE HTs and ABOVE average donor... ill say it again.. above A.V.E.R.A.G.E donor...

in fact, feel free to post a NW 5 or 6 from any or all of the names docs where they were able to do a significant amount more in ONE pass... and the 2 to 3 that you MIGHT find will likely be H&W patients and its because MORE GRAFTS WERE USED...

here is one final key-- whether the doc uses 2500 grafts in the first procedure or 6000. that patient will STILL only have the same amount of avaliable donor NO MATTER WHAT... he wont just be able to go back for another 5000 grafts in pass # 2..... for the record i believe H&W has the right idea on high NWs pull as much as you can in HT #1. then go from there...

All right, that's a little lop-sided. If M.H.R. doctors are "pocket-lining salesman," there's no reason a coalition-physician is not one.

i think you may be onto something my friend

Originally posted by crow1:

LMS,

Do you think this is typical of a mega-session the patient would have received from one of the so called "top 5 docs"? I guess we need to find out how many grafts this patient received?

crow1--- i think its more than fair to say that this result could be done in one session by a select few docs/clinics... however its also fair to say that alot of docs on the 'list' do not typically do sessions like this in one pass... there is really no question that the MAJORITY of patients out there are getting results like these after multiple HTs.. one might even say its 'TYPICAL'.

cant decide-- what do you mean by donor issues?? do you mean he does not have freak donor like nic nitro?...... not everyone can pull 9 thousand plus grafts, in fact i would bet the MAJORITY cannot.... this guy can go in for 2 more sessions(maybe), or ONE large session like you suggest and STILL not achieve full coverage unless he elects to remain thin throughout.. his hair will STILL be thin enough on top that styling is limited. i think his one overhead shot is proof of that. but you are right improvements would be made with another procedure..

i do consider this a typical result on a man with his level of hairloss.... he likely has 2 to 3 thousand grafts left, tops(guessing)... that is unless he wants to start splitting grafts...

cant decide-- how many grafts do you think that patient has had thus far?

http://hair-restoration-info.c...66060861/m/809106822

the above link is a good idea of what i mean.... here is a higher NW who after 2HTs has a bald/thin crown with a new hairline and created illusion of desity in his front half.... this patient is happy because considering where he WAS his appearance has been improved quite a bit and his face framed..he also should not have to worry much about his hair up top as it is mainly transplant. basically his hairloss situation is only going UP... baldboy123's situation will likely be filled with ups AND downs and all arounds

this is a SUCCESSFUL HT. guys in his shoes expecting much more than this ought to re think. this is a patient posted result on the TYPICAL bald man. its not a WOW result we all hope we can achieve.

Originally posted by Can't decide:

I know what you are all saying and agree to a large extent. But, I have to tell you. After reading this thread, the idea of a HT seems allot less appealing. If the "scenarios" that some of you pointed out as having to be met to be a good candidate were completely accurate, I think one or two docs could meet the entire U.S. HT demand

its just a different procedure all together between a young guy with plenty native hair left to lose and someone who has allowed their hairloss to progress a little more.... the thing about the OPs case is that it appears very very likely he is headed for high NW status... his hairloss IMO will be extremely difficult to stabalize. that takes out one scenario.. now the fact he will likely continue to lose the remanider of his native hair 20s, 30s, ect. means that surgery at this point is playing the game of catch up.. he will get improvments but loss will also continue, then it will become how long should he wait before HT #2 and where to address it. its a much more diffcult game plan then that of an established NW5

an already high NW going in is NOT expecting miracles and a good translpant will more drastically change his appearance and since his loss has progresses his future loss if any will be much less noticable to the look of his gained transplant... thats the 2nd scenario..this if course is my opinion on hair transplantation...but i feel it can be supported heavily by by the many many examples ive seen through my personal research...

that said baldboy123, i wish you the best. be SURE with your choice of Dr. and please dont let travel play a role. there is no need to rush this and to do so is prob not in your best interest. its just to important a decision. good luck with everything and keep us posted.

Originally posted by mpkoons:

Nobody can tell me where they are hearing these horror stories about MHR?? I went to Bosley, hairclub, and neither of them could come close as to the professionalism that MHR gave me!! What are your sources of this information about MHR????

dont do it man.. your likely not ready for this yet.....MHR=bosley..... i dont care that they were nice with you and made you feel warm and fuzzy...they are salesmen trying to line their pockets. they do not give a shit about you. you will find that to be that case with MANY in this very dangerous indusrty. are you even sure surgery is right for you?? is it in your best interest to do this?? what exactly do you think can be achieved by hair transplants?? have you taken into account the scarring that never goes away and limits your ability to buzz your head?? have you taken into account future hairloss and how your transplant will look?? how about the fact that if you are, or go bald you will NOT be able to achieve true density througout your entire balding area. but rather the illusion of desity AT THE VERY BEST and ONLY after multiple HTs???

this is a procedure that has both helped and hurt many lives.. chosing a chain like MHR inproves your chances of being HURT by this decision.. the proof you want can be found through research.

just spit ballin here.

since you chose MHR you probably dont have the knowledge required to have this procedure... MHR likley made it sound easy. it is not.. this is a VERY difficult prucedure to do correctly and a very easy procedure to mess up.. you choosing a big CHAIN is not your best bet... its just not. as a matter of fact you should probably post pics and ask a TON of questions before you even take this step..... it may save your life in ways you cant even understand right now..... your talking to people who have been there man.......

here is your info..... MHR is a GAMBLE. you dont know what you will get and this is NOT something you want to mess up.... go cancel. whatever it costs pay it. its not worth the ris..... after that thank GOD or whoever you pray to that you found this place.... once your done start researching this forum ask questions post pics... you will get great feedback from many posters.... after a while you will be much more ready to make a decision be it surgery or no surgery.

i went to the other large chain 'bosley' i regret it..

You've pointed out the worst case scenerio and I've pointed out the best and it's up to the individual now to make an educated decision on which route will make them happier."

---------------------------------------------------

there are flaws to this statement IMO, i sent you a PM so as to not hijack this thread by going off its original topic.

space, i completly understand what your saying as well...trust me... i wish you the very best with your decision. your very lucky to have found this place. wish i was that lucky...id have put myself in a MUCH better postion long term.. all the best man, for real. you seem to have a good understanding that this is not a 'walk in the park' process. here is to you hopefully 'getting over this' someday soon. i hope your HT will get you there

lovestospoon-- there is really only one thing to say about your post.... the cure for baldness has been "right around the corner" for the last 30 years.. many a suffer has felt the way you feel only to watch decades roll by with NOTHING. does that mean the world is not closer?? no. and i PRAY i see it in my lifetime. but you would be making a HUGE mistake IMO, if you factor the 'cure' into ANY surgical decision you might make... that is unless you know something your not telling me

BTW space.. had i gone to a "top doc" id HOPE to be another "thanatopsis awry"(maybe the best HT ive seen on a young guy) who looks fantastic...

but lets look a little deeper.....

does thana take meds and likely will for the LARGE majority of his life???? CHECK.

does thana have limited styling options?? CHECK.

will thana have to consider and likely undergo more HTs for the crown work if the meds effectiveness begins to fade?? CHECK

will he likly still be thin back there still?? CHECK.

is thana care free and does he not think about his hair any more?? i would bet his hair is still a concern for him and at time still consumes a large part of his time....

ALL THIS AFTER A SUCCESSFUL HT(which BTW is not a guarantee.

THE MOST UNDERSTATED WORDS YOU WILL EVER HEAR IN THIS BUSINESS ARE..."results MAY vary".....

that said for thana it was the right decision, for thana the risks were fewer then the rewards as he saw them. thana is, IMO the very best case scenario for a young guy who elects a HT. and his decision DID pay off. but lets keep in mind his frontal loss(where all graftsd were placed) was pretty severe, and lets keep in mind that his journy is likly not over... thana is smart enough to know this. its important that you all are too.... i was not, at the time of my decision

space. i did not go to a "top doc" but i form my opinion based on MANY things outside my own experience. i can understand why you would not like what i have to say man..

i am NOT against HTs if the situation fits.. in my above post i metioned 2 senarios in which HTs can be most successful.... the OPs situation as well as MANY young guys like us, dont fall into either catagory and as a result, TOP DOCTOR OR NOT TOP DOCTOR they are in a loooooong fight..

you see spaceBetween, this is NOT about a quality surgens, this is about the limitations that exist NO MATTER WHO YOU CHOOSE, such as limited donor... jesus himself could do the procedure and when its all said and done 99% will NOT achieve full coverage at a decent density throughout, we will be thin or bald somewhere if he loses his top, which seems likely.... he should be aware of this.. maybe you should be too... space, ive not seen your current hair situation(sorry if you have pics posted and i missed them) so i cannot comment really on what i think. but i get the feeling even if i did you might not be opened to what i had to say anyway. no matter if it were true or not...

im not against HTs, but im very aware that they are NOT for every situation... and some patients who choose to go through with it lend themselves to more risks down the road.... it IS a very dangerous mentality to have when you ONLY care about your 20s because they are the "most important"... i thought that also. and honestly sometimes i still do.. but just because hairloss is harder to deal with for us young guys then it is for guys in their forties that does not automatically justify making a decision that WILL commit you for much of your "30s and 40s aswell"

spaceBetween, so you dont look good with the shaved look either, huh?? well then you too are likely about to be in a loooong fight with many ups and many downs... you too will prob find your self spending 20 to 40 thousand or more throughout the course of your life on your hair.. you too will likely be going in for HT #4 someday, just like our moderator who looks great BTW but will STILL have thinning in his crown EVEN AFTER nearly 10,000 grafts... a number NOT EVERYONE CAN EVEN REACH...

to me, "beating hairloss" is about living like you did prior to all this... a HT by a good doc can brobably improve your look and thats a great thing for a guy who is dying inside like you probably are, but dont think for a second that your HT will alow you to beat this and have hairloss leave your life.. if you have MPB then you have it, and nothing today will do anything but mask this fact, for how long varies from person to person.

Originally posted by baldboy123:

what is your opinion if I plan for the worst...meaning I get a very conservative ht (for my hairline) now planning that I will be completely bald in the future such as my father (which I can clearly see with my current state). Sure, I probably will be chasing the receding hairline behind my new hairline but I really can't wait 5-10 years for a ht. I am 20 and i look like I am 35. Extremely difficult to bear right now. And even by some chance, in 10-20 years if i dont become as bald as my father, then I could always go back thicken up the transplanted areas if i wanted to. Sure I will have many scars in the back of my head from multiple ht but I will always want hair so the scars will always be concealed. And also if i were to wait 5-10 years to get a ht, I would probably be needing mega ht that would probably leave me with multiple scars on the back of my head anyway. Any thoughts on this? I greatly appreciate it.

 

Thanks

first off, the "WORST" would be permanent shock loss, or a LOW yield HT.. these are not common among the better surgens in the field but it does still happen from time to time, even to them... as i told you earlier HTS ARE NOT PERFECT. they cannot deliver your hair back EXACTLY how it was prior to your hairloss. you very likely will have to"work with" you HT hair to make it look the best(for instance i CANNOT style my hair foward, the ONLY way it looks half decent is spiked up)

i get that this is difficult ESPECIALLY at your age.. many of us get exactly what your going through and most are STILL telling you that you had really think long and hard if you decide to go through with this.... THAT SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING MAN... your talking to people who were in your shoes and who made the decision your considering.. they either--A. had NO clue what they were TRULY in fore in terms of commitment, upkeep, and what TRULY can and more importantly CANNOT be achieved by HTS--or B. knew all of the risks, knew it would be a life long journey and went through with it anyway..... either way you need to understand what your commiting yourself to......

look, judging by your last couple sentences it seems to me that as of now you know very little about this procedure and how it works.. should you choose strip you will NOT recieve multiple scars after each procedure.. the doc removes the old scar along with the surrounding grafts, closes it up(just as he did with the original HT)resulting in ONE scar again... that said the more HTs you have the hardr it becomes to close off. as a result scar stretching is more likely. this means your scar will be more visible...........

please hear me when i say that should you end up like your father you WILL reguire a ATLEAST 9 thousand grafts, ESPECIALLY if you address the crown and the hairline... what happens when you loose the rest on top?? your DONOR area is NOT a resource you can just keep tapping into until you have moved enough to cover your entire balding area.. IT JUST DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY FOR 99% of us..... you have ONLY SO MANY grafts you can be able to pull and NO MATTER WHAT YOUR PLAN OF ATTACK IS (be it hairline only, or hairline+crown work in HT #1) you will ALWAYS posess a thin/balding area SOMEWHERE on your head with future loss looming and and donor hair thats harder and harder to get....

HTs are MOST successful MOST of the time on guys that..

A. are very bald(but NOT NW7) and UNDERSTAND they will NEVER have their hair back but with a few well planned HTs can frame their face improve their overall look. they WILL have thinning or bald crowns even after their hts.. PERIOD! and it is also in their best interest to stay on meds TOO, if for nothing else then to prolong their potential NW7 status..

B. guys with proven stabalized hairloss who take MEDS and have a family history that DOES NOT include anyone with the SEVERE BALDING YOUR FATHER HAS... even in these cases HTs are more risky simply because hairloss is so very unpredicable.....

YOU CURRENTLY FALL INTO NEITHER CATAGORY

this is a life changing decision man and guys your age are why i post.... not to tell you you should not get a HT but to tell you that a guy in your shoes has to be MORE careful then you even realize right now....

this whole post covers about 2% f the information needed before making this decision I PROMISE...

for this reason its my opinon that you atleast TRY the shaved look(pull out the clippers and go on a zero guard #1 guard at most)

and while you may hate it PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT NOT ONLY WILL YOU, AND OTHERS BECOME USED TO IT BUT MORE IMPOTANTLY WHILE YOU ARE "HATING" YOUR SHAVED LOOK KNOW THAT YOUR ONLY OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS A HAIRLOSS BATTLE THAT WILL LAST FOR YEARS AND YEARS.. A BATTLE THAT WILL AT TIMES BREAK YOU DOWN. A BATTLE THAT IN THE END YOUR NEVER REALLY WINNING FOR MORE THAT A COUPLE YEARS AT MOST.

hairloss is not easy for any of us.. but guys like myself not only have NOT beaten their hairloss but now have to worry what the future holds knowing we have scarred ourselves.. every day i think about my hair. i have not beaten shit. the only way i could is to say f**k it! and shave it all off.

BTW-- my first HT was at age 21. second was at age 22. im 25 now.... i know how YOU feel, i know how "SpaceBetween" feels too... your life is longer then just the "NOW" if its AT ALL POSSIBLE to make it through your youth WITHOUT a HT its your best option. I PROMISE... if your to young to see that, just as i was, and you "MUST" do this. then welcome aboard my friend and all the very best in this fight that is unique to most of us and ungodly difficult to ALL OF US YOUNG GUYS.... even after our HTs.

save yourself years and years of chasing this.. i know you dont want to hear it but shaving is by far and away your best bet... at your age, with your loss it would be a mistake to get a HT... if you were to fill in the crown and rebuild a hairline(even a conservative one) you will very likely lose the rest of your hair around it..

im going to be blunt... you want to beat your hairloss but you cant.. it will take MANY HT procedures and atleast 8 to 10 THOUSAND grafts(a number you likely cant reach anyway) just to give you the illusion of full coverage.. your losing your hair man and its a terrible thing ESPECIALLY at your age , i know... but i truly believe you will be saving yourself decades of chasing your loss, not to mention the FACT that HTs are far from perfect and come with many unanticipated risks. you will be saving yourself from scars that will be IMPOSSIBLE to hide should your results not satisfy you and you want to shave down...

buzz it down man... or this battle wil likely consume you for decades, just as its done to many of us..... im the mean time PRAY for better treatments... nothing offered today will give you what you truly want, which is non-balding head of hair...... im sorry but atleast you have the option still of shaving it off.. thats an option i would love.. but at 21 i got a HT.. i was desperate too

BTW-- if you choose FUE-- not only will you STILL have visible scarring should you ever shave but FUEs yield is not as consistant and you will likely lose all hair around the transplant in the comming years.. but it could possibly improve your appearance for a few years... and if the now is more important then long term planning then i wish you luck, just know that you will be commitingyourself for the long haul should you chosse ANY surgical route.... all the best

thanks for sharing, can i ask how many total grafts were used? and was the total split between your two HTs??

do you plan on future work or are you satisfied at this point...

congrats on your good experience

very good question crow1 and prob not talked about near enough.. i think you will find just about EVERY HT patient will note that overhead sunlight is his enemy.. i know thats the case for me personally.......

like Bill noted placement of the sun, is key.. ive also noticed when it sits lower in the sky and is infront of me, it can indeed have the "FLASH" effect and give the appearance of false density..... i can look decent in most conditions but ANY overhead sunlight, or ANY direct overhead lighting that shines downward like you might find in a evening out to dinner, or in some bathrooms, cuts my transplanted area TO PIECES. it becomes very thin, it looks terrible, unnatural and is pretty depressing..... i avoid overheadlighting at all costs for this reason.. my self image can only take so much before my day is shot and i dont want to leave the house

What's the "worst case scenario" when you are already there? Continue to wear a baseball cap?

 

That's what I do everyday of my life now!

 

I am a successful business owner, but still have no confidence, and I am miserable being bald.

 

I HATE being bald and I am mentally prepared for this journey.

 

 

I believe Dr Wong is my best chance of achieving the largest amount of grafts in my first session.

well you say it all here drew.... this is what you must do.. you picked a fine dr. please do keep us updated on your results as they come in....

understand that the guys asking questions really do care. they are making sure you have a better idea what your about to go through with... it is not an easy process and its filled with variables

also biscuit IS right.. you should not set your goals at full coverage(unless your content with an overall thin result) its just not very likely, even after 3 procedures...

i wish you the best man. here is to you getting out from under the hat, here is to you feeling confident in the way you look again. you hate being bald, you will not be bald after mulptiple HTs be happy with that even if your still thin in the crown.. good luck

hahahahaha.

centurian-- how is your head hair donor??

BHT has a less then stellar reputation... i without a doubt think that the risks are far greater when somone starts throwing chest, leg or arm hair on top of their head... some in the past say that the hair changes characteristics.. i say bull sh*t.. the BHT results ive seen, the ones decent enough to share and usually in severe repair cases ALL look unnatural and like the guy has leg and chest hair growing out of his head.... BECAUSE HE DOES!... overall yeild is something in question as well. someone explain to me how a leg or chest har can change its program and grow in thicker and longer simply because its been moved to the head... better yet id just lke to see ONE natural looking BHT result

BHT is a scary road to take IMO and many feel it should ONLY be considered as a last last resort in a desprate case.

i will say this, my dad (55) has lost almost all of his leg hair.. loss started around 48 for him. he went from APE to smooth as a babies bottom... and hes a very hairy dude.. sadly he passed that gene to me too.

Now i just want to say because i geard about PGP that once i had a big fight with him and he honestly started creeping me out but i am smart enough to understand when someone offers a lot to this community. Even then... i wouldnt change PGP for 100 smooth talking posters. But thats just me and this place needs everyone to respect everybody and talk an a civil manner.

bingo!!... i wouldnt trade you either hopefull

wantego--- i misunderstood. my bad

Lost,

I do not see the forum rules listed. If Bill can show us where to find the forum rules that might help clear up the situation at hand.

wantego-- there is no situation here, as ive said. we both agree.. personal attacks and insults should not be allowed.. and they are not apparently.. i dont think Bill needs to post anything.. there should be one set of rules we follow....

Exactly! If a friend of mine said he did his research and scheduled a surgery with one of the top-5 doctors in the industry, I would not post pictures of NW-7 and try to scare him with "what if" questions. I would not question the integrity of the doctor he chose.

i could not disagree with you more.........

there are people like myself who feel that ASKING QUESTIONS are the only way to get true answers... hopeful did not post this to scare drew he posted it because he felt its something drew REALLY needs to consider... and drew is better for it if you ask me...

with all due respect, i feel as though you see things backwards man...

hopeful wishes the best for drew i TRULY believe this and he said so himself.. infact he cares so much about a total stranger he takes time to inform him of risks that you dont seem to believe exist as long as he chooses a "top 5er"......

i know you may not want to hear this but patients have been BOTH hurt and helped by their decision to have a HT, EVEN THOSE CHOOSING THE BEST THE BUSINESS HAS TO OFFER.. their stories can be found on here aswell.. it may be a scary thing for some to accept but that does not change the FACT that it is real, and should be considered... with a decision such as this that is so very LIFE CHANGING one does not need encouragment my friend... they need ANSWERS.. REAL ANSWERS.... the encouragment comes after they have taken the leap

some people buy into the cherrypicked results

some have seen enough to know that they are exactly that.

some people help by trying to inform

some people help by saying 'good luck slugger'

personally if i came here to ACTUALLY LEARN i dont need ecouragement NEAR as much as i need facts...... even if those facts are scary.... im a big boy so i could handle it..infact, id be thankful