youngsuccess

I also didn't understand what John_in_NC meant. That hairline looks about as natural as possible to me, even under that magnified inspection that the average person could not see. I think maybe what he meant was that there is some natural peach fuzz near your temples which is not there in the hairline, and occasionally very soft baby hairs gradually build into a thick hairline in women and adolescent boys, but not in grown men. I had peach fuzz like hairs around the hairline and temples when I was like 9, but by the time I started high school, I had my normal hairline which was dark, thick, and pretty low. If you looked closely at it, you would not see soft hairs gradually building the hairline- they were dark and thick. I remember this vividly because I can recall bleaching my hair and occasionally missing the very roots of the hairline, which produced a strong contrast, as the roots down to the very bottom were dark as hell. No disrespect to him, because it's good that we have people hear offering honest impressions; I just think sometimes people over analyze. I think you could probably put up a picture of a thick 15 year old's perfect hairline and claim that it is a picture of a transplanted hairline and someone on here would probably find something that they think is unnatural about it.

Damn man, I still can't believe that you were able to achieve these kinds of results judging by the before pic. People who have never seen this album probably read your posts and assume, "this guy is all about the conservative approach to hts", when in fact after just a little more thickening, it will look like you never even lost hair in the first place! Question: If you wanted to, would you be able to say, style the hairline down as in a caesar syle cut or spike it and push it forward at all? It looks amazing the way you have: pushed up and back would really expose any imperfections, which you clearly do not have, but I was just wondering if the hair will cooperate if you wanted to change it up or even grow it longer and part it to the side or something. Also, I know this doesn't make sense if someone gets hts in the first place, but for the sake of argument if you buzzed it down, do you think it would resemble a natural shaved head (aside from the donor scars of course)? It seems like the really great modern work like yours resembles nature enough to the point that you could buzz it all off and the transplanted stubble would look fine. I'm so tempted to shave my hairline just to see what it looks like underneath, just to see if I had to do this, could I pull it off.

Thanks for the input guys. Hairbank nailed it because I can't go back in time, and since I've had the ht, stopping Propecia is extra risky. I don't mind taking Propecia, so I'm just going to continue to take it, and hopefully this will prevent any serious thinning if in fact I was predestined for loss, at least for the next 10 years into my thirties, which at that point there may possibly be an even more effective drug. I initially saw a derm who prescribed the Propecia after observing the mature hairline and listening to my concerns about potential loss in other areas. My ht surgeon now prescribes the Propecia. I know that the long term effects of taking it are unknown, I think it was FDA approved in like 97, but how long have men been taking to treat the prostrate? Perhaps this may provide some evidence about effects after a longer period of time.

Without flash. The funny thing about this one is that you can notice on the left side (my right) there is a random hair which grows in sideways like temple hair that has been there since I was in highschool. This was not transplanted, as you can see it's way too low. It's just always been there, and I have to pluck it out every once in a while. Can't really see it unless your up close. Funny how the hairline matured a few years ago but this one hair in the middle of the forehead needed to stay. It's not as prominent in the flash pic but you can find it there also.

Here are two shots of my hair slicked back with a little gel in it from 6 months. The first is with the flash; the second pic was taken without flash under my bathroom light. These were taken on different days, but you can see what the flash does. My guess is that in reality the hair appears somewhere in between the two, leaning more towards the without flash pic. In this one, also note the one hair in the widow's peak refusing to cooperate with the orientation of the rest of the hairs and the freshly grown in hair pointing down. I fixed it after looking at the pic and noticing, but this is an example of how hairs pre-maturation process can behave: sometimes a little rugged. If the curly one doesn't fall in line, the sucker's getting plucked out.

Right, right: the work was not restricted to the temple angles, but more spread out across the hairline. As far as the density goes for 600 grafts, the left side (my left side) is now perfect although I admit that since my right had a little more recession to begin with, I think I should have maybe gone for a little more density there. At 6 months, it is impossible for me to make any final judgments, as in the coming months more thickening will occur. Because I had sparse native hair in the hairline and thick native hair directly surrounding the hairline, it is difficult to differentiate between exactly what was done and what was already there. I might put some pics on tonight which will expose the right side more, with the hair pushed back as far as possible. One of the pics in the album now was also taken with the flash on, which I have recently learned can create an illusion of more density. So take pics in good lighting with the flash off. I'll try to get some pics tonight.

I don't want to get in the middle of this, so I'll just finish by saying that again, PerfectFew I definitely see where you are coming from, but I trust Pat entirely when it comes to him looking out for the patients posting here, the "little guys" (as dubbed by Bill) more than the "big guys" (the doctors), which is really what the forum is all about.

Jimmy, Actually, yes I have. This is the link to my 5 month update. I should have posted the 6 month pics by now, but I think I may wait because there isn't much difference between month 5 and 6. http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=144489 I'll again state that this is by many probably considered to be an entirely unnceccasary restoration of my youthful hairline. Many of the posters have had to deal with significant hairloss and have more of an emotional roller coaster ride in dealing with it and finally going through with the ht. I realize this now, so my intention behind posting the pics isn't to say that it was absolutely neccasary for me to do it, recommend doing it, or act like my case was just like the guy who had to be a norwood 5 for years. When I started posting, I was defensive about being labeled vain. But I realize now that maybe I am. At any rate, I am happy with the results so far. My photoalbum probably represents what "can" be done rather than what always "should" be done. Also, keep in mind that lighting plays a role in any of the pics you may encounter, and that fully natural results may take over a year as the hairs need to mature. Some hairs come in coarser and more wiry while some will come in like fine little baby hairs. Pretty good so far for me though. Also, in the 4 months 1 week pic, the widow's peak appears pretty low because I have my eyebrows and brow raised for the pic, but it reality it is not that low. My donor scar is undetectable at 6 months; I even buzzed the back with a #1 and couldn't really see it. "Refinement" of the hairline as you call it is exactly what I had done, and it can definitely blend in with your native hair, provided your native hair doesn't fall out one day. But again, the key word here is "can". I also believe that your case may just involve what is known as "closing off the temple angles", indeed considered to be very minor hairline refinement.

Jimmy, It sounds like your case is very similar to mine, with the major difference being that I had my ht to fill back in a mature hairline at 24 (I'm 25 now) and not 29. At 29, you are better off than if you were 24, but many will still advise you to wait as your future pattern of loss may still be unpredictable. But like you, there isn't significant hairloss in my family. You'll find there are a lot of mixed feelings and a lot of ambiguity concerning this topic. Now, if someone in his mid 20 to even late 20s mentions that there is no loss in the family, people will argue that this means nothing, and is no indicator of what could be to come. However, if a person the same age mentions that his father is a Norwood 6, automatically it means they are headed for this amount of loss. This is pretty much erring on the side of caution, but this is typical of the advice you will receive, mainly because people do not want to see you end up with a thick hairline and a Mr. Clean dome. But technically, yes it can be done and appear natural, but this may only be for the time being, depending on whether or not you begin Propecia and plan for future transplants just in case you start to thin or go bald in other areas (or just hope for advancements in the field). I am currently taking Propecia even though I had no other signs of loss for precaution, and this too may be risky, as the long term effects are unknown. In the end though, I guess I'm just a vain mutha' and went for enjoying my twenties with my natural hairline back! Ten years from now, you may be hearing a very different story from me, but let's hope that doesn't happen... Don't do anything unless you consult a Coalition doctor. They know more than us posters for a reason.

Fight!!!! Ha ha, just kidding. To some degree, I understand why PerfectFew has been suspicious about this community. For example: when I started posting I decided that I wasn't going to name my surgeon; I felt that even though the work was solid, and that I was more comfortable during the procedure and the following few days of recovery than I had been after certain dentist visits, my situation was still somewhat controversial due to my age. I thought at first that a witch hunt might ensue if I mentioned my doctor, so I chose not to volunteer that information. Based on my interaction with everyone here and the type of feedback that I have gotten, I no longer think this is the case, but I can understand why a person might be turned off at first by the cheerleading aspect of the community. Certain highly skilled, ethical doctors out there today may be avoided simply because they are not affiliated with the Coalition; however, think about how many horrific experiences also have been avoided because potential ht patients have come here first. It might not be fair to all of the other good doctors performing hts right now, but this is simply the nature of capitalism. The docs here have made enough money and developed enough of a reputation that they get the extra push. Then again, it is fair game to start another website that extols other doctors in the same way, and it might not always be appropriate to accuse the other community simply for supporting doctors who do not belong to this Coalition. But I think that ultimately 99% of the regular posters here seem like great guys with good intentions, and that the PATIENT will always benefit by sticking with the Coalition, even if certain other doctors miss out a little.

HLBD, Thanks for the advice; I have considered what you have said. The thing is, before I started Propecia, I made sure that the hairloss was not being caused by some kind of illness. My hairline had simply "matured", which is a normal process not related to MPB and happens to most guys between the late teens to late 20s (Your hairline naturally changes over time). The motivation behind my ht is probably seen by some people as simple vanity. DHT however may still cause the mature hairline, and so I went on Propecia to attempt to block more potential DHT from affecting other areas of the hair, so I admit that it is taken soley as a precautionary measure. You just hear more guys say, "I wish I had gotten on it sooner". Waiting until hairloss is significant enough to really notice, then starting finasteride, then giving it 6 months to take effect can lose someone a lot of hair. My goal was to prevent that from happening. Mrjb, Thanks again for the support; I am still encouraged that you continue to have success with Propecia after 7 years.

To preface this question, I'm going to explain my situation really quickly again. At 21, my hairline matured, a little more on my right side, which seems to be a normal pattern for the mature hairline (more on one side). The total recession was maybe a centimeter. I had my ht at 24 to restore my previous hairline; most of the work (of 600 grafts) was focused on my right side. Anyway, I have been on Propecia for almost two years. Now, I haven't had any hairloss since the mature hairline stopped at 21, but I realize there is a good chance that Propecia has had nothing to do with this. There is no significant hairloss in my family, but I'm trying to stay ahead of the game if in fact there is loss in store for me. I have read that Propecia's long term effectiveness is unknown: some say they've been on it for many years; others claim that it's effectiveness lessened after 5-7. Since I went on it mainly as a precautionary measure to prevent loss, I really have no way of knowing if my hair is naturally meant to stay or if finasteride is doing it's job. Let's say hypothetically I'm supposed to start thinning at 31 (I'm 25 now). So that would mean that there wouldn't be much reason for being on Propecia for those 9 years, 22-31, unless I was trying to block it way before it might start (who knows if that could work). My question is this: if in fact Propecia is effective for let's say, 9-10 years only, would being on it now, even if I technically would not responding to the drug because I'm not thinning, use up those years? Or would that timeline begin at 31, when the drug would really have something to "work with" or I guess work against (again hypothetically for this scenario). I am not planning on stopping either way, because it might be doing something, although I have a feeling there is just as good a chance that I wouldn't be losing hair now anyway. I know this is an odd situation because most people begin mpb and then go on finasteride, whereas I just had the mature hairline and possibly started it years before any potential thinning. I know that my native hair which remained in the hairline and directly around it after it had matured was never shocked out after the ht. This is either an indication that Propecia worked in strengthening that hair or that the hair was not predestined to fall out anytime soon. Or maybe both? The hairs were not miniaturized, just normal, thick hairs that are still there. I guess in my case it's all speculation.

To preface this question, I'm going to explain my situation really quickly again. At 21, my hairline matured, a little more on my right side, which seems to be a normal pattern for the mature hairline (more on one side). The total recession was maybe a centimeter. I had my ht at 24 to restore my previous hairline; most of the work (of 600 grafts) was focused on my right side. Anyway, I have been on Propecia for almost two years. Now, I haven't had any hairloss since the mature hairline stopped at 21, but I realize there is a good chance that Propecia has had nothing to do with this. There is no significant hairloss in my family, but I'm trying to stay ahead of the game if in fact there is loss in store for me. I have read that Propecia's long term effectiveness is unknown: some say they've been on it for many years; others claim that it's effectiveness lessened after 5-7. Since I went on it mainly as a precautionary measure to prevent loss, I really have no way of knowing if my hair is naturally meant to stay or if finasteride is doing it's job. Let's say hypothetically I'm supposed to start thinning at 31 (I'm 25 now). So that would mean that there wouldn't be much reason for being on Propecia for those 9 years, 22-31, unless I was trying to block it way before it might start (who knows if that could work). My question is this: if in fact Propecia is effective for let's say, 9-10 years only, would being on it now, even if I technically would not responding to the drug because I'm not thinning, use up those years? Or would that timeline begin at 31, when the drug would really have something to "work with" or I guess work against (again hypothetically for this scenario). I am not planning on stopping either way, because it might be doing something, although I have a feeling there is just as good a chance that I wouldn't be losing hair now anyway. I know this is an odd situation because most people begin mpb and then go on finasteride, whereas I just had the mature hairline and possibly started it years before any potential thinning. I know that my native hair which remained in the hairline and directly around it after it had matured was never shocked out after the ht. This is either an indication that Propecia worked in strengthening that hair or that the hair was not predestined to fall out anytime soon. Or maybe both? The hairs were not miniaturized, just normal, thick hairs that are still there. I guess in my case it's all speculation.

Both Hairbank and Alsocooleyfied have suggested either cutting your hair much shorter or shaving it off for now. This is probably in reality the best advice you can get right now, for a couple of reasons: It is the summer, so you could do it and feasibly grow it back for school next year if you hate it; It allows you to face what your hair and head really look like; It might turn out that you look ok with a buzzed head; Especially if you're concerned about playing sports, nothing is more appropriate for sports than a buzzed head. A better look in my opinion when guys who are receeding buzz their hair off is to grow little sideburns also, which creates a sharp look as the hair sides burns fades out. Once you graduate from college, and you are no longer in an environment in which mostly everyone around you is your age, and you see hundreds of people in in this age group, who are more judgmental about looks, everyday, the preasure will not be as intense to fix your hair immediately. Obviously, if your hair is receeding and you buzz it, people probably can still tell that you were receeding, but are more likely to just think you are comfortable with it and would rather have a cleaner look. I would still say request an online consultation with some doctors in the Coaltion, and provide all of your information and family history along with pictures (most allow pictures to be attached), but staying of finasteride and buzzing your hair if the receeded look is debilitating to you right now IS the safest thing you can do. If you like the way you look with a buzzed head, then you have got it made.

I think this is true also. It's funny because there are actually a ton of pop culture references to bad hair plugs out there. I have seen Halloween "business man wigs" with ungodly looking plugs sticking out of it, commercials on T.V. in which people's hair plugs are pulled out for comedic effect, etc. The only information about modern hair transplantation that I was exposed to before I began learning about it on my own was from Bosley infomercials at 4 in the morning, which most people either don't see or assume is bull (which I guess it kinda' is). I saw this one guy in person once who had ten fat, long plugs of hair slicked back over his head, which was literally a light shade of purple. I thought, "Why on earth would anyone do that?" It was not until I started doing my own research that I realized how the techniques had changed. This is just another reason why modern hair transplants, if done properly, are undetectable: the average person simply does not know what evidence to look for if trying to detect a ht. Hair transplantation still pretty much seems like this esoteric practice. So in a similar ironic fashion to what Younguy said about people not working out and healthy people reaping the benefits, it is a great thing for us that most people are ignorant when it comes to the art of modern hair restoration, and that some balding guys either don't care about their hair or don't bother to look into it, even though more interest in the industry might generate even more research (although I guess science takes time regardless). I agree with this also, and think that even with a cure for baldness, hair transplantation, in whatever form it evolves to, will still be around to some extent, simply because people will want their hair refined. The focus will go from simply wanting more hair or better looking hair to wanting the "perfect" hair. It is seemingly impossible to regrow the hairline with medications currently, so this might suggest that even a drug that could regrow a basic full head of hair probably won't stimulate much in the hairline. About working out: Is there a way to get stronger without getting much bigger? I started a basic weight lifting routine in high school, and basically got to where I wanted to be in terms of mass and definition, but I want to get stronger. To give you an idea, I'm 170 and can bench 200, which shows that I'm not a big gym buff. However, I like my size now, which is skinny with pretty good definition; I just want to get stronger without bulking up. All my friends who lift look way too big, and argue that it is impossible to get stronger without being huge. But I remember there were skinny kids in high school on the wrestling team who could bench like twice their weight. I guess I should have posted this in the non hair loss related threads, but no one looks in those.

This all depends on the doctor's ability and the amount of grafts used, plus the extent of the hair loss. An entirely bald man should never approach the transplant with the expectation that he will be able to style his hair anyway that he likes. However, guys who experience some loss but take other precautions with medications to help prevent further loss will have more options, especially if they have a good doner area. The hair can look natural if the procedure is done properly. Terminal hair is certainly not hairline hair; however, the placement/direction of these hairs plus the right amount of density can recreate a soft, natural hairline. The final appearance rests on the doctor's artistry. This is probably the reason why everyone should only consult coalition doctors. Personally, my results came out great so far even though I did not see a coalition doctor, but my procedure was small. My doc nailed it right on the head and I did feel very confident in his hands based on my consultation and meeting the technicians, but this does not guarantee that he is consistently able to pull off great hts with a variety of patients. Coalition docs have proven to be consistent in doing exactly that, which is the most important thing. I didn't know of the coalition at the time of my ht; good thing I got lucky. You hear horrible things about Bosley, for example (I definitely didn't go there). The truth is that they've probably done some great work, but also some terrible work. There are probably doctors out there right now doing great work who will one day be affiliated with the coalition, but you simply do not want to take the chance of getting screwed by a doctor who is competent enough to pull off the procedure without scarring you but still leaves you with a look that is unnatural. A lot of doctors are good doctors when it comes to the basics like closing the donor wound and whatnot but they simply aren't artists, which is a big part of ht work. Also, the suggestions made by Bill and Hairbank are the best advice you can get, especially about educating yourself before the procedure. Good doctors normally list maturity level and understanding of what to expect as top criteria that the patient must exhibit in during the consultation. The more you know, the more likely it is that the doctor will consider your ideas and there is more chance of a compromise with the plan. Are you saying that you part your hair down the middle and curl it around the eyebrows? Maybe you could post some pics of your hair: the state it is in now plus maybe an older pic. Also, I don't know if people already do this normally but you could probably use a program such as photoshop to edit a pic of your hair now using a clone tool to place hair in the areas that you want. It probably won't look all that perfect, but this might be a good way of expressing your expectations and then getting feedback on if they are reasonable or not. Or this might just encourage people to go crazy with the thing and go from Mr. Clean to Cousin It.

Hmmm... I could be wrong but I don't think this has much relevance. A person who lost his/her hair a few months before the ht will have the same type of hairs coming in that area as the person who has been bald in his/her respective area for ten years: terminal hairs extracted from the donor area. The hair that was originally in the recipient site will not grow back, only the newly transplanted terminals, which will not assume anything about the area for which they are headed (doctor has to do that). These hairs have no former relation to the original hairs that were in the recipient area. Maybe there is some connection with the concentration of DHT in an area, but I don't even know about that (finestaride should help block it anyway). It may appear differently in different areas when it comes in depending on the orientation of the hairs, the numbers of hairs in the grafts, the native hair surrounding the grafts, etc. Most hairs invariably come in thinner and more wispy; some occasionaly come in coarse and darker. I'm 6 months out so the maturation process should be just beginning for me. Here we go!

Ok thanks, I'll take a look.

Ok good to know. There really doesn't seem to be pinkness, but every once in awhile I still detect a little. I guess what I was trying to say about the color maybe altering the appearance is that under weird lighting, there is something, an area of density or darkness, in between the hairs, maybe the pinkness, maybe some kind of shadow from the hairs? It doesn't strike me as something to worry about, as the hairs are all different lengths, some growing more than others, some still fine and white. Maybe that is part of it. I might try to post pics here to illustrate the difference.

I noticed that my hairline appears super sharp and thick under certain lights, but simply not as thick and a little more wispy under others. The same type of difference is noticeable when comparing flash/no flash picture taking. Also, it's weird: most of the time, even upon close inspection, I find no signs of pinkness; however, other times, there still seems to be faint pinkness, I guess depending on the light. Is this additional pinkness in the background distorting the appearance of the actual hairs somewhat, resulting in the different looking pics? Again, I'm almost 6 months out. Are these normal observations?

I noticed that my hairline appears super sharp and thick under certain lights, but simply not as thick and a little more wispy under others. The same type of difference is noticeable when comparing flash/no flash picture taking. Also, it's weird: most of the time, even upon close inspection, I find no signs of pinkness; however, other times, there still seems to be faint pinkness, I guess depending on the light. Is this additional pinkness in the background distorting the appearance of the actual hairs somewhat, resulting in the different looking pics? Again, I'm almost 6 months out. Are these normal observations?

Bleachcola12, Glad to hear that you're taking the right steps. Hairtech, Thanks for the info and support. Everyone else, I don't want anyone to think that I'm challenging them on the advice that most people seeking hts at a young age should probably wait. I just try to offer my opinions and experience from my procedure, and try to present both sides of the argument. It might seem that I am in favor of the young guys jumping in and going for it by basically saying, "Well I did it", but I just want everyone to know that it isn't my intention.

Bleachcola12, I'm not going to argue with any of the guys here because they know what they're talking about and really are just looking out for you. But, I'm 24 (I'll be 25 in a month) and had an ht about 6 months ago to correct my hairline which had matured. I have not experienced loss in any other areas, and had been on Propecia for about a year before I decided to go through with it. A maturing hairline is different from male pattern baldness, and seems to affect most men between the late teens to early thirties or something like that. Basically, the hairline rises a little, maybe an inch or so and about an inch and a half above the temples. Mine wasn't all that drastic, and had thinned off by the time I was like 22, and stopped there. This however doesn't mean that someone also won't experiece MPB. I didn't like my mature hairline, so I did something about it. But restoring a youthful hairline in general is a controversial topic, and one that raises ethical questions regarding hts. The thing that is weird is that you'll hear even coalition doctors say that they make exceptions and do this kind of procedure for men who rely directly on their appearence for income/livelihood, ie, models, actors, etc. So in that case it is "ethical", but for other good looking young men who are just as concerned about their appearence and whose jobs and livelihoods are also negatively affected because of thinning it is "unethical"? All I know is that at 6 months out, I feel great about it, and I am trying to plan for the future by remaining on finasteride for precaution. There are basically two different things that can happen to me: 1. My prediction based on family history (and precautionary measures involving medications and saving up in just in case of future loss) that I do not experience severe thinning/balding in other areas proves correct, and my hair reamins to look good. 2. It turns out that I am predestined to really thin or bald. I have fun for the next 5-10 years, but then Propecia stops working, I begin to thin, there are no advancements in hair restoration medications/procedures, 6000 more grafts taken from my donor area cannot makeup entirely for the loss, and I have to buzz my hair off. The second scenario in my case doesn't seem that bad to me, because I only had 600 grafts, which will not create a super strong shadow effect in the hairline when compared to the rest of a buzzed head that is thinning. HOWEVER, some people will wind up getting a crap load of grafts in the front, then go bald everywhere else, resulting in an unnatural appearence that will bother them 10 times more than thinning hair. This is a huge risk that is up to the individual. Some people will argue that I made a mistake; however, if there was ever a "best" time to make a mistake in getting an early procedure, it is now. A guy who got butchered at 20 in 1987 when they performed barbaric pluggy procedures and wound up balding later is a lot different from a young man taking advantage of medications and seeking a ht in 2007. There was a thread here a couple weeks ago from a 20 year old who had a procedure done by a respectable coalition doc. I'm not telling you to do it, as it is a huge risk. But at least feel encouraged to speak to a coalition doc regarding your situation if it is really bothering you, as it seems like the times are a changin' along with attitudes about young hts. You might gain some some comfort and a little peace of mind even if they reject you right now but discuss a plan that you could possibly pursue in the next few years. I remember I saw my doc at the beginning of the summer. After assessing my situation and confirming that I was mature enough, he scheduled me for the Fall because he was booked until then (but said it was better to not have the summer heat and sun directly after the ht anyway). I wound up going in Nov. 2, 2006, 6 months later. During all that time in between, I was at peace because I knew I had done something about it. I'm not saying that being told to wait a few years is just as easy, but if it comes directly from a doc who you eventually want to work with, it might get you psyched.

I see. I'm just trying to plan ahead here. I've been on finasteride for about 1.5 years and have'nt experienced any problems, but I'm trying to gather some info on alternatives just in case it stops working years down the road. I am totally comfortable on it and don't want to have to switch, but I'm just trying to prepare myself for the worst case scenario. Or maybe by that point something even better than Avodart will be out there! Thanks JOBI.

Thanks for the info Gorpy. It sucks that some people can't take advantage of the hair they've already got when approaching hts.