GoliGoliGoli

4 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Bad, bad, bad decision. The front is THE most important aspect. Trust me, you will not wanna have a thick crown with receded hairline. 

But look at Bruce Willis in Armageddon! Of course eventually he did go full Norwood 7 though.

But do you really think 1500 graft would be enough coverage for me to be happy with given the pic of the crown above? If I'm capped to 4000 grafts I'd need to do 2500 hairline 1500 crown. I'm not on fin but understand I will likely need a 2nd or 3rd HT. But I'd like to go 4-6 years before needing HT number 2. 

I'm half kidding with the Bruce Willis stuff by the way and appreciate your advice. But I do think some guys look fine with a very receded hairline and no bald spot on crown. Maybe not the majority but some do, and I think I might be one of those....

Edit: I know you can't tell me what will make me happy, so to reword the 2nd line, do you think 1500 grafts is enough for your average person to be content with given the pic above? 

34 minutes ago, Adier said:

Nobody looks at your crown at first glance. It's the front. Moreover crown can take up lot of grafts. 

 

I mean, when you got a big shiny bald spot on the crown they sure do! Some guys have very diffuse crown thinning I got a white out. 

On 7/1/2022 at 9:23 PM, 5BetaReductase said:

@Melvin- Moderatorthis might be a little unrelated but can you ask him why he’s so opposed to topical minoxidil? He even mentioned to me in person that it impacts surgeries. 

I second this request. I've heard the same thing and am very curious to here them go in depth on this. Please ask!

Edit: Actually my question is slightly different than 5Beta's. I am curious if they are opposed to topical minoxodil generally, and for what reasons (I've heard it has to do with collagen breakdown not isolated to the application area). Are they more in favor of oral min? 

11 hours ago, davidn said:

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Statistically, yes it is far more common to be bald in your 40s/50s/60s than early 20s, this is just the reality and implicitly implied each time someone says "hair loss is progressive". I think it is a valid thing to say that many young men feel like being bald is a significant disadvantage for them in the romantic market or even in the job market if you consider things like the halo effect etc. Chances are being bald makes you less attractive. This doesnt mean that every bald man is unattractive obviously. But there are studies in which >20% of men admit feeling depressed by losing their hair. This is in self-reports which are usually skewed as men are embarassed by admitting depression over vanity. I am all for bald positivity and think for many men it is the most sustainable option, but I think we are not entirely honest with ourselves telling people that there is an easy solution which is shaving their head and embracing it, as we wouldn't need coping mechanisms and support communities if it wasn't a big deal for many men. The hair transplant market wouldn't be projected to grow so much in the next years if it was true. However, it is a valid thing to say for people in their 40s/50s/60s as well that they absolutely care how they look and want to look good and feel good about themselves even when older. This is what young men often neglect when they don't do smart planning with hair transplants. Of course you don't wanna look ridiculous at 50 when you have children and a wife and be constantly made fun of by colleagues and such having big ass scars all over your head.

Yep, well said. Maybe this is complete nonsense, but I feel like I would be a lot more open to going bald if I wasn't already a pretty attractive guy. Like I've spent my whole life benefiting from the halo effect as you call it, and the thought of losing it as time goes on is a concern. Hair fibers have allowed me to continue to enjoy the halo effect for now but at a certain point it will be less effective as the balding progresses both on the crown and hairline. (Luckily they do seem to stay in pretty well during sex even when a girl is grabbing your hair pretty aggressively :O) 

Hi all,

As the title suggests, I'm Norwood 3V and am considering doing a transplant only for the crown, not for the hairline. I have a decent bit of M shaped loss on the hairline but frankly I kind of like how it looks and am able to style it well for now. However I have a bald spot that's pretty large on my crown that bothers me a lot more and can only cover it with hair fibers. Many Hollywood stars have significant hairline loss but seemingly no loss on the crown and it looks really great and masculine (Take a look at Bruce Willis in Armageddon). 

I know most people say to focus on the hairline before the crown, but like I said I am much more concerned with the crown just due to my own personal aestehtics. I understand the loss will continue and maybe one day I wont be happy with my hairline but the natural hairs behind the transplanted ones on the hairline will continue to recede anyways. 

So long story short, would this be a major mistake or are there others who have done this? Since I'm limited to 4000 grafts per session I worry if I split between the hairline and crown I would not get the crown coverage I desired. 

On 6/25/2022 at 12:19 AM, NARMAK said:

When you feel you're beginning to lose ground on Finasteride, the next steps either a change if already 1x a day 1mg Finasteride to adding Dutasteride into the mix usually to shore up the amount of DHT inhibited. You might be wanting to switch away from topical Minoxodil but just look into what oral Minoxidil has as side affects too just to be aware. 

Personally i think switching to Dutasteride for yourself might be a good start

Can you elaborate on the oral min side effects? I've heard (Either from Kevin Mann or the More Plates More Dates guy) to avoid oral min but can't remember why 

On 6/25/2022 at 8:00 AM, GHTJourneya said:

If you consume half a pill of any marine collagen supplement, that is more than enough to cover whataever collagen reduction you might experience, if any.
Note that most patients take vitamin supplements alongside with minoxidil, and vitamin-c alone boosts collagen production.

Oral minoxidil will boost your beard, frontal hairline, and potentially your donor area. It is far better than topical minoxidil and far easier to consume/apply.

At a nanoscale, even breathing will deteriorate your skin. If you experience any side-effects, report that to your doctor and you will work it out.

Restoring collagen levels on your skin is easier than resurrecting hair follicles 

You sound very sure of all this mate, but as a biology major I can tell you it's not always as simple as taking a supplement to "cover" collagen reduction. I'm not saying you're wrong either you very well may be right, but relying on supplements to cover or replace any possible damage you're doing is quite a gamble. 

On 6/24/2022 at 4:07 PM, Tiger2050 said:

Dr. Victor Hasson mentioned collagen reduction with minoxidil in his IG live with Melvin. Dr. Hasson said minoxidil users have compromised scalp tissue because of collagen breakdown and it’s very obvious when they dissect strips under microscopes. My skin definitely got worse while I was on topical minoxidil for an year, I stopped after consulting with Dr. Hasson who said he says premature facial aging all the time with minoxidil.

 

Wow thanks, I'm done with minoxidil I guess. Only been on it about a month. 

2 minutes ago, shiba1985 said:

Bad scarring of donor and or recipient area. Larger than necessary  punches used. Poor graft insertion. All can leave scars.

Hm interesting. I feel like the chances of this are pretty minimal though. Maybe the type of thing you notice if you look closely but most people wont see or notice. 

2 hours ago, Gatsby said:

The true answer will never be known due to the explosion of surgery all around the world over the past 20 years, let alone the past two years. There are no guarantees and even the top ten surgeons in the world (which in itself is a rather elusive figure to measure) would (should tell you) that there are no guarantees except that they will do their best. But if you factored in all of the surgery (outside of hair mills) carried out around the world I would hazard a guess to say that more patients are dissatisfied with there results than are. I would be very confident that here in Australia the overwhelming vast majority are dissatisfied with their results. If you were to point out what the flaws are (doubles in the hairline, poor angle placement, poor candidate, etc ) then that figure would rise to 99% at a guess.

Do you think that 99% number is true even for those who accept a 2nd or possibly 3rd HT will be needed? You were gracious enough to respond to my other thread so you have some idea of where my heads at in all of this. 

2 hours ago, shiba1985 said:

Depends on how you look at it. You could be that 1 out of 10 that has a bad result. The thing is, if you go to a reputable surgeon, even the worse possible result wont leave you "scarred." The horror stories usually happen from non reputable clinics where patients get butchered, donor zone gets obliterated, and you are stuck in a limbo where you cant shave your noggin, nor can you grow your unsightly hair out. That outcome is highly unlikely at a reputable clinic. 

 

In what scenario would you not be able to shave your noggin?

You know, I guess if you got a 1st HT and then decided not to want a 2nd but still wanted to grow it out a half inch or so you could always just razor to the skin the transplant areas to keep it from looking funky? Hmm.... Interesting. 

2 minutes ago, GaryStruthers said:

Got ya! Well it sounds like you’d like to go ahead with it, best of luck. Just to be clear, when you say “I can always just go totally clean shaven“, you mean with a razor to the skin, and not a buzz cut right?

Correct, just going razor to the skin. Because I suppose by getting a 1st HT you are losing the option of growing it out a small bit right? 

Also, if it's a chore to look up don't worry, but if you know some top notch SMP places with before and after pics I'd appreciate if you'd share their names or sites. But no biggie if it's a chore to find. 

20 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

Because it was performed on me when I was only 18 and should never have been carried out at all. It was back in the day of 'punch grafts' (Google punch grafts for pics) and I was too young to know any better and the doctor just saw $$$. I took six or seven operations over a six year period with a plastic surgeon to have them removed leaving me with permanent scars. This is still happening today in hair mills only to a different looking disfigurement. I wore a hair piece for 25 years to hide the scars and progressive MPB until six years ago when I had SMP. In January of this year I went to Eugenix and had the whole mess repaired over six days of back to back surgery. End of the day often doing nothing is the wisest decision.

Damn what a bummer. I feel very fortunate to be dealing with this issue in 2022 when I have the internet and great forums like this to do research and talk with you all so I understand what I'm getting in to. 

Also from your profile picture the SMP looks great so glad you've gotten some closure from the sound of it

30 minutes ago, GaryStruthers said:

It’s a great question you’ve asked though. I have - and may still - think along the same lines. Can you picture yourself shaving your head and getting used to it? Wouldn’t that be amazing if you could own that? Your choice of no meds obviously means multiple surgeries so I think you’d be happier not going down this road. Have you studied the top SMP results coming out lately? Phenomenal in my opinion. But as the lads mentioned above - there’s upkeep in every choice other than the clean shave/no meds approach. 

Eh, I'm fairly confident I would be alright with no meds and 2 HT's. My loss has been pretty darn slow so I don't think I would need a 3rd, and at a certain age I feel like I will be happier with going clean bald than I am now. I'll never "love it" obviously and will always prefer hair, but at 40 or 50 it's much more normal to be bald. And because I'm going with Dr Nader in Mexico my cost will be fairly low. And if I don't want a 3rd or even 2nd HT I can always just go totally clean shaven, and it doesn't sound like it would look to funky.

33 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I agree with Gatsby here that if you have any plan at all to "go back" to before you had a HT, you probably shouldn't start by getting anything.

 

Well, I obviously have no plan to "go back to before" a HT, I guess I just want to know if it would look noticeably funky to go clean shaven after and if the hair follicles on hairline would look funky even though shaven down. I don't think it would, but curious because people often ask about electrolysis. I guess maybe they ask because they'd like to grow hair out to an inch and just rock the receded hairline/bald spot look but still have something there? A lot of actors still look fine even with receded hairline and ball spots. 

Or are you just saying not to go with the first one because of the financial commitment? 

TBH, I'm ok with eventually shaving down to completely clean shaven. Would just like another 5-10 years of hair. Right now I'm cool with the idea of a 2nd HT, but I want to know that it wouldn't look too funky if I eventually wanted to shave it completely down to the skin. 

1 hour ago, Gatsby said:

Hey @GoliGoliGoli if you have any reservations at all about not following up surgery with more surgery for MPB then I highly recommend that you don't begin on this path to begin with. So many people have said (including myself) that they wished that they never had a hair transplant. You have to be committed to chasing your hair loss with surgery (or for others using meds) for the rest of your life. The only way I can see around this is to 'wait' until you are a Norwood 6/7 and have someone like Dr Pitella or Dr Zarev do a one and done surgery. But even that can only happen if you have great scalp donor (and beard and chest) hair. You can't predict the future but we can rely on science and MPB is progressive over the lifespan. Other options are to simply forget about MPB, shaving your head, SMP or wearing a hair piece. You could have the frontal hairline band grafted and wear a hair piece to give you a natural looking hairline. But then you are hand cuffed to wearing a hair piece for the rest of your life. Wishing you all the best!

I'm sure you've written about this before so apologies for asking but why did you regret your first HT? Was it just a poorly done job or was it just the fact that you hadn't considered the financial commitment of having to do multiple? I'm pretty sure I've chosen a good surgeon so I'm not too worried about the results. It's also Dr Nader is Mexico so financially it isn't as huge a commitment as some other places. 

3 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I'm going for 4000 grafts on my first HT. Norwood 3a (Mainly crown loss) My question is this: Assuming I will continue losing and don't want to go back for a 2nd (Or possibly 3rd HT) is it a mistake to get the 1st? I see a few people on here talking about electrolysis and methods to reverse a hair transplant and that kind of confuses me. Does it really look noticeably different to have shaved down hair follicles on your hairline and crown but with nothing around it even if you're rocking a completely razor shaved cueball look? Another consideration I'm curious about with a HT is that some guys look better with hair grown out an inch or inch and a half despite having big bald spot and receded hairline. I suppose that option completely goes away once you have your first HT? 

A bit more context for my personal situation: I'm not on finasteride and do not plan on going on it (Please don't discuss in this thread). As mentioned I'm a Norwood 3a and started balding at maybe 26 or 27. Started with a bald spot on the crown, and slowly my hairline has been moving back as well. 33.5 now. Starting to see some initial diffusing in the area between hairline and crown also. No balding history on my moms side, but my grandfather on my dads side went bald early but very slowly over time. Even in his 80's he still had some hair on top left although not much by that point. My dad has full hair along with his younger brother, but their oldest brother had hair loss that mimicked my grandfathers.  (I know family history is only somewhat relevant to what my pattern will be but I do seem to be following my grandfathers pattern). 

Thanks!! For reference I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I'll need a 2nd HT at some point, but I'm just curious what the options and what hairstyle options go away after the 1st HT. 

D

I'm going for 4000 grafts on my first HT. Norwood 3a (Mainly crown loss) My question is this: Assuming I will continue losing and don't want to go back for a 2nd (Or possibly 3rd HT) is it a mistake to get the 1st? I see a few people on here talking about electrolysis and methods to reverse a hair transplant and that kind of confuses me. Does it really look noticeably different to have shaved down hair follicles on your hairline and crown but with nothing around it even if you're rocking a completely razor shaved cueball look? Another consideration I'm curious about with a HT is that some guys look better with hair grown out an inch or inch and a half despite having big bald spot and receded hairline. I suppose that option completely goes away once you have your first HT? 

A bit more context for my personal situation: I'm not on finasteride and do not plan on going on it (Please don't discuss in this thread). As mentioned I'm a Norwood 3a and started balding at maybe 26 or 27. Started with a bald spot on the crown, and slowly my hairline has been moving back as well. 33.5 now. Starting to see some initial diffusing in the area between hairline and crown also. No balding history on my moms side, but my grandfather on my dads side went bald early but very slowly over time. Even in his 80's he still had some hair on top left although not much by that point. My dad has full hair along with his younger brother, but their oldest brother had hair loss that mimicked my grandfathers.  (I know family history is only somewhat relevant to what my pattern will be but I do seem to be following my grandfathers pattern). 

Thanks!! For reference I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that I'll need a 2nd HT at some point, but I'm just curious what the options and what hairstyle options go away after the 1st HT. 

I'm in a similar position to you -  about a Norwood 3 vertex and no interest in going on Fin. I posted some pics on a recent thread if you're curious. Started balding at 25 or so. 

I think if you want to avoid taking Fin a lot comes down to the quality of your donor area and how much you are willing to spend because you will eventually need 2-3 HT's. A lot of people on here say not to consider price when choosing a surgeon and while that advice comes from a good place I think it's crazy to not treat price as a major factor here (Especially for those of us uninterested in getting on Fin). So in short, if you have a good donor area and are ok with spending the money on 2-3 surgeries just find a low cost (But reputable) surgeon in Mexico or Turkey and have at it. 

Right now I am considering whether I want to pay up to go the HT path or just accept balding. I'm looking at about $7300 for HT number 1, and probably at least $6000 for HT number 2 down the line so a minimum total of $13,300 for a decent head of hair. Really going through an internal battle of whether or not it's worth it. I have about $35,000 in the bank so it's a big cut of my net worth. 

TBH I really don't think I need 4000 on the crown for a "Decently" full look. 

17 minutes ago, Jason Blaha said:

Talking realistically your crown needs 4000 grafts to look decently full. The crown is a black hole and it always requires a lot more grafts than you think. But of course you don't want to trynna do 4000 grafts in one go. That would be a huge mistake....

Get on medication first. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Research. 

 

Wow tbh that is a bit discouraging to here 4000 to look "decently" full. Makes me re-consider getting a HT at all. 

I'm on minoxodil for about a month, but no real interest in starting on fin. 

One final question: Where do you guys think I fall on the Norwood scale? 

On 6/23/2022 at 3:20 AM, Gatsby said:

I think you will be fine as long as you stick with the anti biotics. A lot of clinics prescribe anti biotics immediately after surgery regardless to avoid infections. All the best!

This is something I've been wondering about. It sounds like some but not all clinics prescribe antibiotics post HT? I would prefer to avoid having to take antibiotics if not 100% necessary, so I'm hoping it's true that not everyone takes them post HT? 

20 minutes ago, pidds said:

1. I started 1mg of Fin and Minoxidil Foam about two years before my first transplant which stabilized my hair loss.   

2.  I assumed I would need a second transplant to get more density. Additionally, one of temples lost more original hair after the first transplant so I had that restored. I’ve lost more natural hair in the last few years so I’ll have a third transplant in the next two to five years.

3. I haven’t shared any pics.

Final q: Where were you on the Norwood scale prior to the 1st ht?