GeneralNorwood

4 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

The one thing I can guarantee is that they are reading this thread. 

Well, when i told Dr Bisanga that i had HT in Eugenix, he asked surprised "Dr Pradeep Sethi did your HT?". I replied that it was Dr Priyadarshini. Later Dr Bisanga said, that he will bust Dr Sethi's balls about this case 😂

Sethi can try to BS patient like me, but not such experienced doctor like Bisanga

1 minute ago, Rafael Manelli said:

It would be interesting to hear Eugenix chime in here.

No it wouldn't. I never saw that they took resposinibility for their mistakes. But i saw attacking patient for being unhappy of his procedure 

What can they say. That patient agreed to this plan and repeat this weak argument that "there was risk to implant between existing hair". 

39 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

What does it look like brushed back? Maybe you can cover the thin part with the front. Could try toppik as a temporary fix. 

Yeah, that was the plan to grow hair longer and comb it back, using headband like @Rolandas did after 1st HT. I am checking it sometimes if it looks good, but now it's still  little to short to make propper slickback. I can give it few more months to grow and decide if i want to keep hair longer or cut it short. However my situation is different then Rolandas, because my lateral humps area is worse. Dr Bisanga told that my lateral humps are going NW6/NW7.

I am using fibers, but i don't like using this sh*t. You have to use hairlocking spray too and it's not good for hair. It's not solution that you want to use everyday. Personally i don't want to use it at all. 

Fibers blend the color, but do not give density. It repairs color of "white triangle" thing, however front is dense and curly and back is flat and not dense, so it looks weird. 

I was thinking about coloring all the hair, so the miniaturised hair will have same color as the transplanted one... 

2 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I find it strange that Dr Das would say she couldn't implant on a very thin area (the triangle), because it already had too much hair. It was clearly thin to begin with. Adding more hair there would not have taken too many grafts and would be necessary for a natural outcome. And now they claim they can just add grafts to the vertex, where there is a lot of native hair? Strange. In fact she did had a few hundred grafts to the crown. Those grafts could have been put in the triangles in my opinion. 

 

1500 to the Crown and 1000 to midscalp. Funny thing is that during 1st HT she said "if you hadn't so much hair here on the crown, i would implant 1500, but in this circumstances i can do only around 300". 

Now 1500 is fine. Maybe even 3000, why not 😂

The issue here is just not being honest with patient and not presenting solid few steps plan. 

2 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Some men thin on top first and keep their hairlines intact, so a natural look is definitely, for sure achievable.

The question is whether a dense look is achievable, and how best to use the limited grafts that remain. That's the real conundrum.

You may wish to reach out to more doctors for their opinions.

Of course, now i am not in a hurry. I will make professional photo shoot soon then maybe i will buzz cut my hair, because it pisses me off. 

I have to come now with solid plan, not some retarded one like in 1st procedure. 

9 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

This triangle, in my view, is the top priority for naturalness, and will only take a few hundred grafts. It is strange that Dr Das didn't anticipate needing to fill it in, and that she gave you such an aggressive hairline considering what Bisanga has revealed. Perhaps you should ask her about that.

Regardless, what's done is done. You can only move forward. You may have regrets, which are reasonable, but on the plus side you got a natural looking result with high yield, invisible scarring (as far as I can tell) and they have not depleted your donor or harvested in a strange pattern. 

And you're handling the strongest meds available. 

You went to a highly regarded clinic and put your trust in an expert's judgment. You can't beat yourself up about that. 

As for the big red rectangle you just posted, thay could eat up 1000 grafts per side. It would make a big difference though.

And as for FUT, if you're going to do FUT yothe conventional wisdom is to strip out and then do FUE. Starting with FUE and then doing strip is not the best idea because FUE will harvest some hairs from the strip area, thus making any strips you get less profitable. However, those hairs aren't wasted. They've been used for FUE. So it shouldn't be too big a deal. 

Strip candidacy depends on scalp laxity. 

Not many European surgeons are known for FUT these days. Bisanga and Lupanzula do it on occasion. Drs Muresanu do it regularly. Dr Ball in the UK does it.

It's a wise choice if you want to eke out every graft you can. 

I think you should consider it. 

Instead of implanting in this white area, Doctor pushes forward and implant in blue area, because patient said that he wants the temples, because he saw great marketing videos from Eugenix on youtube. The outcome - patient looks like sick person. 

5 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

After reading your thread I do have to agree with Dr Bisanga's assessment. 3200 Grafts isn't enough to get you a full head of hair regarding your midscalp and crown but I still feel like 3200 grafts would make you look somewhat normal with just vertex thinning if executed properly and carefully. I feel like the planning here is most definitely working against you but its not unsalvageable and you can at least get to a point that looks natural and not artificial.

Did Dr Bisanga mention how many grafts you could get outside of the safe zone?

 

We didn't talk about getting grafts outside of the safezone, but i will ask about this. 

6 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

 

Approx 6000 grafts, with your hair type, was never going to be enough to cover the whole nw7 area with good density and that aggressive hairline. So you were always reliant on the meds and it was always a risk. I'm surprised Dr Das was so rushed, by the sound of it.

I don't consider it anywhere near the worst result I've seen. If it helps, I've seen far, far worse. Miles worse. I don't say this to deny your perspective but to give you a new one and for reassurance. It's not that bad. Just reckless and rushed by the sound of it in the planning phase. 

 

Imagine that i was graded Norwood 3V by Eugenix, that was so wrong assesment. 

I meant - one of the worst results from Eugenix, not from whole world of HT  

5 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I went back and noticed you said this. That you didn't foresee the possibility that you'd need grafts on that triangle on the side, especially the left. 

But really, whether you noticed it or not, Dr Das should have noticed it.

I asked her about it why she didn't implant hair there. She said that "couldn't have implanted hair there, at least not until there is enough space between hair". Same speech was about implanting hair ot the top, that it can be harmful to the native hair. But recently when i send here photos she said that we can implant 2500 on the crown and miscalp, just like that. Now everything is possible, because "will do closer implantation in this area". That's some high level of BSing

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

 

My concern with transplanting the midscalp and crown would actually be the possibility of killing off some of the miniaturised natives. They appear dense and shrunken, which can make them vulnerable to shockloss.

 

 

That was concern of Dr Das before 1st HT, but now this concern dissapeared and she can do 2500 grafts on top. Magic 😂

3 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Well, different doctors have different philosophies, I have nothing but the utmost respect for Dr. Bisanga. That said, I think you still have plenty of donor left. I was in a similar situation before my last HT.

Can your situation be improved with another surgery? In my opinion, absolutely. Now, will you ever have a full head of hair with no weak spots? Probably not. That’s being realistic.

Yeah, that is positive thinking, but imagine that i had more focus at my weak spots like midscalp and lateral humps, like you mentioned earlier in this topic. For my level of hairloss, treating vulnurable areas instead of agressive lowering would be correct choice by professional doctor with plan. And i could have full head of hair, just with higher hairline and without temples. 

2 hours ago, Zoomster said:

Please take some hope from this @GeneralNorwood..there’s 5,400 beard grafts in there some where within my midscalp / crown…..if Eugenix deem your beard suitable then as was mentioned earlier a 3k scalp 2 K beard procedure should put an end to your concerns …most of my last crown procedure hasn’t fully borne fruit yet either ..i understand your frustration though ..I’d be feeling the same way .

Ive a feeling you’re going to be ok at the end of all this so hang in there .

 

 

I don't know if i can put trust in Eugenix team anymore. I am not so stupid anymore like 1 year ago. Vague plan to implant 2500 on the midscalp and crown is not enough for me. 

21 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

This triangle, in my view, is the top priority for naturalness, and will only take a few hundred grafts. It is strange that Dr Das didn't anticipate needing to fill it in, and that she gave you such an aggressive hairline considering what Bisanga has revealed. Perhaps you should ask her about that.

 

It was all there, just look at the picture. She didn't take time to think about the plan and for me everything was happening fast and i didn't think it through too. They are doing multiple surgeries, consultations etc during the day and this is the final outcome of this approach. 

22 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

 

You went to a highly regarded clinic and put your trust in an expert's judgment. You can't beat yourself up about that. 

As for the big red rectangle you just posted, thay could eat up 1000 grafts per side. It would make a big difference though.

And as for FUT, if you're going to do FUT yothe conventional wisdom is to strip out and then do FUE. Starting with FUE and then doing strip is not the best idea because FUE will harvest some hairs from the strip area, thus making any strips you get less profitable. However, those hairs aren't wasted. They've been used for FUE. So it shouldn't be too big a deal. 

Strip candidacy depends on scalp laxity. 

Not many European surgeons are known for FUT these days. Bisanga and Lupanzula do it on occasion. Drs Muresanu do it regularly. Dr Ball in the UK does it.

It's a wise choice if you want to eke out every graft you can. 

I think you should consider it. 

 

Yes, i went to highly regarded clinic and unfortunetly received one of the worst results in the hairrestorationnetwork. 

I will definetly consider FUT, because what can i do... Area to cover is huge. Dr Bisanga said that miniaturised hair doesn't matter, they are thin, light colored, so we need good density anyway. 

1 hour ago, Rafael Manelli said:

If you manage to hold on to natives with dutasteride that might be enough 

I think that this areas that i marked in red rectangle are looking the most ugly and it should be number 1 priority for HT. 

I don't know if i want you use all ~3000 grafts in next procedure. Maybe better idea is to use 2000 and leave some in the bank. Another think is considering FUT technique, but is it profitable when i already had FUE and now there is only 65 grafts/cm2 in donor? 

49 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

If you manage to hold on to natives with dutasteride that might be enough 

I think that this pictures better show that Bisanga is right. The more I think about it, the more convinced I become that this HT plan was dumb.

1 hour ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Does Eugenix agree with Bisanga's estimate of how many grafts you have left in the bank? 

Dr Das said that i have between 2800-3000 left in donor

5 minutes ago, Rawkerboi said:

Hi, 

What Eugenix has to say? 

Did you share your concerns with them? 

Dr Das proposed 1000 grafts for midscalp and 1500 for the crown. 

5 hours ago, Judelaw said:

I’m sorry to hear the bad news but you have to respect Bisanga for giving it to you straight with a plan of action. What led your surgeon to place so many grafts in the temple points?

I asked for temple restoration. That was the project that we made together. 

5 hours ago, ZeeMan said:

Ultimately, it all depends on how you feel about your hair? Are you satisfied/happy etc? People will always talk, but you are wise enough to ignore the nay-sayers!!

I am not satisfied. The worst thing is lateral humps, because it looks very unnatural from the side that i have dense front and then it's bald spot on the side. 

5 hours ago, Z-- said:

Honestly, I thought your hair looked fantastic, until I saw the Bisanga photos, which makes the situation a bit more nuanced. Think Eugenix got you great growth, but if it's true that you only have 3,200 hairs remaining and that large of an area to cover, there are going to have to be some sacrifices (e.g. a bald spot left in the crown or weaker coverage on the lateral humps). Was this made clear to you before the surgery? Did you insist on the aggressive hairline?

That said, if you're happy with a strong hairline and weaker midscalp/crown, then the surgery was a success. I'd seriously consider going to a more conservative doctor to maximize your yield and one who plans for future loss. Bisanga is, of course, a great option. Others to reach out include Dr. Munib Ahmad and Konior. I've seen great repair cases from all of them.

How are you feeling about the result?

The aggresive hairline was first draft of dr Das and i agreed to this. I asked for some grafts on the crown, but what i got was only 350. Lateral humps was neglected, we didn't talk about it, i didn't see at the moment that this requires a lot of grafts to look good with HT on the front. 

I am not happy with strong hairline and weaker midscalp/lateral humps. The final result is not good. 

3 hours ago, hairman22 said:

 

I think Bisanga was a bit harsh. Although i think the front is too dense,

Actually a less dense hairline & frontal third would save more grafts & you could have equal density through the top of the scalp.

It is probably too low as well considering you are a NW7 in the future,

@GeneralNorwood I would not rush the next surgery.

I think Zarev or Pitella are your best shot & receiving a great result,

They will be able to get more from your scalp donor than 3000

Bisanga told me that safe zone is 4 cm. You multiply it by 26 cm and you have 104cm2 donor area. The donor area is 65 grafts/cm2. So if you take 31 grafts from each cm2, you take 3200 grafts total. Donor area will be then 65-31 grafts = 34 grafts/cm2. Anyway, what can do dr Zarev and Pitella? Take more grafts from safezone and donor will look sparse or avoid the safe zone. 

42 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Has he seen Brad Pitt? It looks natural to me.

If you’re worried about running out of grafts, you could go with the option of doubling down on the frontal third with the second transplant for higher density, and use non surgical solutions for the mid scalp and crown (concealers, smp or prosthesis, all three of which work best on the mid scalp and crown.)

Concealer doesnt work for midscalp and lateral humps, because there is huge difference in density and everything behind frontal third loos flat. Furthermore, frontal hair are curly and miniaturised hair in the midscalp aren't. 

What is prosthesis? Fake hair? 

@BHRClinic

Dr Bisanga came to Warsaw, Poland 2 days ago. I had consultation with him, which was for free. 

He was heavely critisising this hair transplant. 

His main points : 

- My hair transplant was made without a plan. It was like building a house without foundation. 

- Donor managment was bad and it didn't take into account future progression of baldness. 

- Hairline was made too low and it was a waste of precious grafts. In his opinion Caucasians have higher foreheads and my hairline shouldn't be lowered but made on the level of native hair. 

- HT on temples was mistake too. In his opinion  it was a waste of grafts and caucasians don't have such prominent hair on the temples. He said that maybe it can look great on instagram, but it's not natural. 

- He used some special device and calculated that i have 60+ grafts per cm/2 in donor area. He estimated that i have 3200 grafts in safe zone for future HT. 

-He said that i have retrograde alopecia starting from the nape of the neck. 

- I have a lot of miniaturised, vellus hair on the midscalp and crown. 

- There is visible border between transplanted hair and nontransplanted, it looks very unnatural. 

- Next steps should be made carefully. He estimated that for 2HT i need 2500 grafts for midscalp and lateral humps. I asked him what about the crown. He said that if we had unlimited donor, crown work would require 3000 grafts. 

- He was talking about some differences between my beard hair and scalp hair. The pojnt was that my beard is not so good for HT.

- He recommended switching from liquid minoxidil to oral minoxidil 5mg. 

- He recorded video to teach "How to not make HT in caucasian male". 

So generally, this information that 2HT for midscalp and lateral humps will pretty much use all of my left donor is worrying for me. What about the crown... 

This is photo that i received today from BHR clinic with message " We saw your topic on forum (hairrastoration). To be honest, we believe that the actual photos you have posted do not show the real picture, which unfortunately looks worse " 

On 3/13/2023 at 2:00 AM, Xanadu said:

you mentioned some drawbacks to that method - what is the advantage?

Well, you just quoted the advantages 😂

 won't color all your hair.The result can be very natural, hair will blend nicely

On 11/17/2022 at 12:15 AM, wrzasowic said:

Five months (not 20 weeks).

I hope the density will improve.
What do you think?

Update?

Side looks a lot better now and not only above the ear, but at the top too 😃

1.Tourist visa, i got it in 2 days. 

2. Paying by wire transfer is cheaper when you use for example revolut. Paying by card requires 3% extra fee to total price. 

3. I had surgery with Dr Priyadarshini Das and i stayed in Double Tree by Hilton at Baani Square, it's near clinic. Two days were included in package. I asked Satyam for 2 extra days and he booked it for me with corporate disscount. I didn't stay for head wash. 

4. There was beakfast every day at the Hotel. For dinner and other meals i used app called Zomato. It's popular in India, locals use it so it has good prices. I ate pizza at pizzeria da susy and i can recommend it. Price is not so cheap like on Zomato, but it's nearby Hilton at baani square. 

On 12/2/2022 at 4:46 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

 

6 months 

 

 

Today i had some sun in my room, so i took some pictures of the top. It's month 9 and there is no big improvement since month 6. Dutasteride is not helping much. 

Identical twins. One took finasteride, the other didn't. Look what happens after 10 years.

But jokes aside. Amazing result. This hairline was best choice for you. Now it's only matter of time for extra density to come. 

@Mo1brag

Can you post pictures in daylight, outdoors? 

Update?

Impressive donor managment

10 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We request that you also understand that your case is not comparable to Mr Adrian Brown, where the procedure involved more of scalp hair compared to your procedure. 

@Xanadu

10 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

 

Nevertheless, we continue to stand by you and Mr Hariom will be available for you alongside our round-the-clock post-operative team to support you through this. Dr. Sethi would love to assess you physically and he might fly to USA in June/July, although there's no confirmation yet, we will keep you posted on this. 
 

It's very good to hear, that Eugenix is not abandoning Tony. I think this result is below level of what we are used to see from Eugenix, so critical posts from many of users in this topic were unevitable. Therefore, Eugenix team should have extra level of understanding and empathy for Tony and i hope that from this moment previous communication problems will fade away. What we all want is Tony happy with the end result. 

4 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Never use beard grafts for the front. Beard hair is better used as filler hair. (...)

One of the issues of using just beard hair is the shorter anagen phase and longer telogen phase

True. Maybe it's possible to find some extra scalp grafts and in case of donor depletion it can be repaired with body grafts. 

and speaking of beard graft phases, Minoxidil prolongs the anagen phase and shortens the telogen phase, so sorry for repeating myself, but topical/oral minoxidil can bring great benefit for you , Tony. It's science. 

6 minutes ago, Bandit90 said:

Dude is welcome here, I’ve done my best to answer all his questions! Hadnt appreciated just how new the account was on HRN, but I have to agree with Melvin 310 posts in 11 days when you havent even posted a result is defo suspect. Can’t prove it, but defo suspicious! Strikes me as trying to quickly build a credible account.  

Ok, but i didn't see him being offensive or smth like this and i didn't notice that he is spamming. He is expressing in civilized manner. Banning him seems overly sensitive for my taste. If he is "suspicious", observe him further, idk guys 😆 Anyway Melvin will do as he wants 😅