GeneralNorwood

46 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

You have 310 posts in a short period of time, you also have posted from a point of knowledge. It’s obvious you’re either a burner account, or someone who was previously banned. Your posts have been reported already. 

A mandatory two week vacation is in order. 

Or he is user from Italian forum hungry for discussion. It's speculation unless you have prove. 

So i don't know why ban him for 2 weeks.If he is not welcome in this thread, just ban him from this thread 🙄

7 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

That’s exactly my point! Even the most bullet proof ships need life boats AKA the Titanic. 

Yeah, but Titanic had only 20 lifeboats that could accomadate only half of the passengers. That's why Leo died and he had Norwood 1... Interpretation is obvious 😄

8 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

 No ship, no matter how sturdy, ever goes to sea without life boats. 

Unfortunate metaphor dude. DId you ever see "Titanic" ? 🤣

11 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Precisely and also you're a fool and an extreme pessimist if you don't think science and technology will improve in the next 20 years.

Well, for the last 20 years i belive there was little improvement. But now this Chinese guys from Kintor are up to something and hopefully things will speed up. 

3 hours ago, Rafael Manelli said:

You might end up nw7 

But it can be after 20 years so i don't care. 

If you are good responder to finasteride/dutasteride, it is scientifically proven that this drugs will stabilize your hairloss for 10+ years. I started finasteride 2 years ago(now i am on dut) and since then i am better off. 

 I will be extremly happy if i finish this journey with 2nd HT and mantain effects for next 10 years, i am dedicated to stay on medicine therapy. 

And on this forum we have @MazABwho is taking finasteride since times that it wasn't even called finasteride, so + 20 years and i think his hair are pretty stabile since he started taking this drug. 

21 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Dont mean to hijack, but what would you reccomend for both hair mask and conditioner? 

i am from Poland, so we have different products here and i use some polish brands  

You have to test different products for yourself. 

I can elaborate that my hair mask has sunflower oil, rycin oil and avocado oil. My conditioner has wheat protein, soy protein and arginine. 

My hairdresser recommended to use this kind of "women products" when she saw that my hair are very dry. Here is the result : 

Well, your hair look a lot better then month ago. Waiting for pictures from photo session before and after procedure  

16 minutes ago, washingtondc said:

Thanks for this unbiased assessment. Unfortunately, I *did* take my time doing research for the clinic, and I *didn't* agree to 400 grafts. I don't remember ever being told the number of grafts (though if I had been I probably would have agreed, as I'm not a surgeon who does this for a living). I was just told that the problem would be addressed, and when I tried to get an idea of where the density would be after the second procedure I was told that grafts would be added where they were needed to make it look good aesthetically and that density would increase "50-70% in areas."

The whole situation is just so disheartening. I guess I'm going to contact the clinic and let them know how things have turned out for the second time (if people think that's worthwhile). I'm not even entirely sure what I might stand to gain from that but I guess it makes sense as a first step.

You need to ask a lot of questions before procedure, they won't do it for you. Number of grafts is basic question. You didn't agree on specific number of grafts, so they did low effort job, harsh truth. Trust, but verify. 

Nah, you won't gain anything by contacting them. Would you go for another touch up? I wouldn't. So contacting this clinic is pointless. 

Can you send some pictures in daylight, when you are outdoors? 

Another thing is that your hair look dry on some pictures. Do you use protein conditioner and hair mask? It should improve condition of your hair. You can use hair mask once weekly and leave ir for 30-40 minutes, then wash it. 

Tony, maybe you can try using 5% minoxidil, because as i remember you only mentioned using topical dutasteride.

Topical minoxidil can do tremendous job for beard grafts. You can use it once per day, before going to sleep.

On 2/7/2023 at 4:01 PM, Rafael Manelli said:

Yours is definitely more aggressive than bandit90's, if by aggression we mean proximity to the ideal. John (bandit90) got Dr Sethi to show him where his ideal hairline would be if grafts were no issue. Its about 10mm further down than his current hairline. The temples are brought in more too.

Yours on the other hand seems just about ideal, and the distance from the glabella is lesser. 

You could also look at aggressiveness in a more relativistic sense. What's aggressive for one man may not be for another, depending on the donor and recipient. Perhaps aggression could be defined by how much risk one takes on of being unable to fill in the area behind the chosen hairline if loss progresses. 

It's all about how you look at it. Anyway in my opinion yours is maximally idealistic, and I hope it proves the right move for you long term. 

Yeah, my is maybe even little more aggressive then this "ideal hairline" project for Bandit90. 

However i am 3 Norwood stages lower, having Norwood 4 with diffuse thining, having good donor too, taking dutasteride and minoxidil, so i hope that i will pull it off. 

1 hour ago, Falconary said:

Regarding minoxidil it became too difficult to apply it morning and night, or perhaps I became too lazy..

You can take it only at night as i do, because of the long half-life

On 2/4/2023 at 6:06 AM, general-etwan said:

 I would have placed more grafts on the top of the head where you've lost hair.

As i wrote in the first post, Dr Priyadarshini didn't want to implant grafts on top of my head to not harm native hair. But after watching photos from session i insisted to implant some hair on the top and she agreed to implant around 300 on the crown, it was finally 351 hair. 

On 2/4/2023 at 6:06 AM, general-etwan said:

 

Bandit90's design is on the aggressive side too, in my opinion. Both of yours are looking good, but there's no doubt they're both on the aggressive side of things towards the front of the head.

Ok, that's fair 😄

10 hours ago, Xanadu said:

However much you pretend to be, or want to be objective, your opinions are just that. Your opinions.

 and here comes "That's just your opinion" eristic argument. 

Remember that people can judge , which opinions and arguments make sense. Thanks for talking. 

24 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I guess to you he still does not match well enough. He is the one I'm thinking of who would come closest.

It's not "to me". I provided objective criteria that proves this cases are not alike.

"a lot of beard grafts" is not good argument to state that 2 cases are similar. 

25 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

 Let's calm down and wait to have Tony and Dr Sethi talk about this. 

Well, i can agree to this conclusion. 

Tony is now rightfully unhappy about the result and he is manifesting this in overdetailed description of his communication troubles with Eugenix.

Well i understand that Tony got angry when he was hearing from long time "wait, wait" and nothing changed. 

But clearly now Tony has Dr Sethi attention and i suggest to descalate situation a little bit and try to resolve it in private.

Tony, based on your first post, The original plan was to implant a lot more grafts in next procedures, but seeing current outcome you have to establish with Dr Sethi if there is sense to continue HT journey. If possible, you could see Dr Sethi in person, so he could examine your scalp in person. Ask him if he is coming to US this year. You can get second opinion from one of forum recommended HT Surgeons too. 

28 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

Of course you will never find anyone who exactly match the situation of anyone else. That is not a reasonable criteria. Gatsby is more similar to Tony in that both had an exhausted donor, and had a lot of beard grafts implanted.

Man, im not asking about exactly same procedure, but similar. Gatsby's first procedure is nothing like Tony's. 

Tony had 2500 beard grafts and 500 scalp grafts- which is propably around 3500-4000* hair implanted on high norwood. Maybe Tony can answer if this number is correct, if he knows amount of singles,doubles etc. 

Gatsby had 3200+ scalp grafts and around 5000 beard grafts- which is propably around 12000* hair implanted on high norwood. So Gatsby had 8000+ more hair implanted in procedure, so there is 0% similarity. 

*The number of hair is my estimation based on that average hair count per graft in scalp is usually around 2 and in beard around 1. 

21 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

You can for example look up the results on here of the user Gatsby.

Well Gatsby had 3000+ scalp grafts in the first procedure, so you can't compare it to Tony's procedure( 500 scalp grafts)

19 hours ago, MazAB said:

I may start coloring my hair again, but still debating. Would love to get opinions on that from all of you. 

 

My hairdresser told me about this new technique called AirTouch. It's more expensive and takes more time, but they won't color all your hair.The result can be very natural, hair will blend nicely, you can look into that. 

23 hours ago, Xanadu said:

I believe that Eugenix has a couple of examples like that which have been quite successful.

Can you show me ? 

Dr Bicer is on of the few recommended in Turkey. It looks like crown started to grow, we will se how it will improve in 2-3 months.

Could you provide some side pictures? 

Happy growing 

The thing is that your procedure is solely based on beard grafts. 2500 beard vs 518 scalp, so more then 80% grafts were from beard. And i guess most of this beard grafts were singles, which means worse coverage. In ideal world your procedure would have opposite ratio of 2500 scalp grafts and 500 beard grafts, which would provide more density and natural look, but of course it was impossible because of your donor supply. 

This is first case that i saw with so high level Norwood level that had so big beard to scalp grafts ratio. 

And now imagine that you have unlimited beard grafts supply and you implant another 7500 beard grafts on the scalp. It will provide you basically new beard, but placed on the scalp. It won't look natural. 

If im mistaken, please somebody provide case that had implanted 8000+ beard grafts on this level of norwood and the final result was looking good. 

49 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I agree. A very low hairline for this level of hairloss. There is a huge risk of running out of grafts trying to keep up with additional hairloss over time. At least you are on dut, so maybe you can avoid the worst of that.

It's interesting because this opinion that i went too aggressive is very common in this topic and nobody says that for example Bandit90 went agressive. And our hairlines are not so different, maybe his is 1cm higher. 

Like guys, i think that i dont need 8000+ grafts to close the deal.

1 minute ago, Phillyman1996 said:

I ment how many inches is your hairline when you measured

You mean how many cm it is from mid frontal point to glabella? It is 6 cm. 

Or do you mean how many square cm i had implanted in frontal region? I dont know that. 

3 hours ago, Phillyman1996 said:

How many cm is your hairline measurment?

Can you elaborate what it means? 

26 minutes ago, MazAB said:

I'm at around 60 grafts per cm2 plus or minus, after it all grows in over the next 5 months.

Yes, but you are definetly around 60 grafts/cm2 in the old hairline, because they added extra grafts to old 40 grafts/cm2. But how about this completely new area, where there was no hair, did they implant there 60 grafts/cm2 or around 40 grafts/cm2? 

29 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I think donor management is the main reason clinics avoid implanting super high density, not inability.

Unless you have very fine, straight hair, and you want the thick look, I reckon most people can get satisfactory density in one pass with a good doctor 

Well, there other factors too, check out this video : 

10 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

I think you make a great point about density. But I think you should be able to get good density in one go. 55/cm² can be done in one go, I believe. 

Some people have done 80 or even 100/cm² in one go. 

From my information, standard density in Eugenix is around 40 grafts/cm2. I don't know the details, if they use this kind density equally or they tend to pack grafts more dense in the front, rather then in the back. This is safe approach, which provides high succes rate, when they are using their HT method. 

Implanting with 80 grafts/cm2 is very risky and can cause necrosis. And it's not definetly for Norwood 3 and above patients, because of donor managment. 

I remember that in one of Eugenix articles i saw that they can maixmally implant 45-65 grafts/cm2. I belive this 65 grafts/cm2 is only for some individual cases.