AA1989

I see too many contradictions in this thread.

On 3/16/2022 at 11:05 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I agree with you, unnecessary negativity for no reason. Was the outcome perfect? No, but the overall procedure was successful. For the value I think 99% of the population would say it’s worth it. Of course, we can nitpick and be unhappy about certain things, but that shouldn’t be the only thing you focus on. 

On 3/16/2022 at 11:12 PM, digi23 said:

 

I would not think that a hair transplant should be done and you need to pay 1000 euros for 10 electrolysis sessions killing some 300-350 multiple grafts completely wrongly placed. It is not optimal, but it is a way to fix it atleast. A overharvested donor would be worse.

Ontop of this I have a bald spot, which we will see if it grows in, you can see it if you look at photos back. The good thing is that I push my hair to this side so it will hide it.

3 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

my main issue with his clinic wasn’t one bad result. 

While I'm sure the OP appreciates that you now consider it a bad result, I respectfully disagree, your main issue must be getting to the bottom of this bad result. It isn't just a bad result it's @digi23 a person who was decent enough to document their journey on HRN, to help us. The doctors reply does nothing to explain why errors were made in this case and how they will be corrected to ensure they never happen again. Poor yield may be down to physiological reasons(not applicable in this case) but multi's in the hairline and temples, bunches of singles, misaligned grafts - that's poor protocol standards or human error. What is it?

The inconsistencies continue, look how resolute your response was to @George Clooney when he pointed out his observations of a patients hair transplant at a recommended clinic.

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This forum was created for patients interested in sharing their genuine reviews. Patients who put themselves out there. We exist because of guys like @ADil who share their experience. I will not have anyone posting to try and nitpick them and bring them down, especially someone who doesn’t share themselves, and is anonymous. 

The reason everyone comes here is to see real reviews, the moment people feel uncomfortable posting because they may get nitpicked and brought down, is the moment this forum dies, and that I will not allow. Sharing real reviews and experiences isn’t advertising. That’s the reason why we hold these reviews so highly. No one is being paid to post, they post because they’re paying it forward to help others out there see what a genuine candid result looks like.

 

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/59596-ht-at-eugenix-nw3-2612-grafts-on-24-march-2021-by-dr-priyadarshini-das-mumbai-branch/page/6/

When @digi23 felt attacked. He needed to defend his position. I don't feel someone who has the courage to present their case on a public forum should feel attacked. I think we should applaud the patients that come on here and give their honest opinion. Terms like 'unnecessary negativity' and 'nitpick' share similarities with clinics who try to change a persons perception of reality aka gaslighting. They have no place on a forum here to support patients and prospective patients.

Are we to draw the conclusion the only real consistency here, both were an attacks (directly or indirectly) on a recommended clinic?

I know these exchanges seldom end well no matter how valid or well presented the concerns. So it's been nice knowing you guys🤣

Who moderates the moderator?

31 minutes ago, SadMan2021 said:

there's a sucker born every minute. as long as hair mills are significantly cheaper than quality clinics, there will always be people willing to risk a botched HT if the price is much cheaper. 

Also, it's really hard for people to relate to the misery and stress of a botched HT until they've experienced it themselves. So you will always have plenty (especially young) dudes who really don't understand the risks and other long-term ramifications of having a botched HT. 

That's a real shame. They are already vulnerable by virtue of their hair loss. It's sad that there are people (hair mills) willing to disfigure someone for a quick buck.

Perhaps @Dr Resul Yaman can give us some insight into the position of the Turkish authorities to these hair mills?

6 hours ago, AndrwE said:

Who would be your choice between either Rahal or Bisanga for the job?

Get both doc's to do a side, document your progress and we'll have a result 12 months later🙃

Judging by the popularity of this thread and the number of followers ( plus all the silent followers). There is a substantial commercial opportunity to provide a personalised, high-quality service from Turkey at a realistic price. The 'race to bottom' hair mills may cash in, in the short term, but medical tourists are becoming more informed day by day.

It sounds like you are making positive changes with the support of HRN. Just like a soccer manager is only as good as their last game, the same can be said of an HT clinic. Reputations can take a long time to build yet are destroyed much quicker. The scrutiny of results has never been higher. I look forward to seeing the progress.

21 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

Doing this obviously takes up more manpower and time and is less efficient from a purely time or revenue based standpoint; it's much quicker to quickly check them with the naked eye as they're extracted and just roughly guess what each graft is what in terms of FU groupings etc and roll with that.

11 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

This number to sort out into singles and doubles and triples etc takes few hours of a dedicated technician doing it. If they need to trim singles to make more of them in cases where more singles are needed than extracted, then this takes even more time. 

I believe both these post speak of the need for highly trained staff given the time to do a quality job.

Lets remember the status of recommended surgeon shouldn't just rely on payment of subs (important as this is to keep the lights on) but also upholding the values that got them the 'recommended' status in the first place.

When you click on the link we are told:-

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Have they made the investment in time and resources to do large sessions of micro follicular unit hair transplantation? Doing outstanding work requires a staff dedicated and trained to use high-powered magnification with the capability of producing more than 2,000 carefully trimmed grafts per surgical session.

https://hairtransplantnetwork.com/Consult-a-Physician/tips-on-hair-restoration-physicians

Normally the grafts are sorted under magnification, so the person implanting knows which ones are the singles and implants accordingly.

3 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

Are you sure they don't use magnification? Just seems essential for something like this. Maybe he provides it but the staff said screw it on your surgery day? It's just too cheap not to provide. And I'm sure even at his rate he makes enough money for this. 

I'd hate to have everyone saying this and it not be true but I do believe they didn't on your day. 

Thats why suggested Melvin should clarify with the clinic. It would be unfair to the clinic if this was an isolated case.

It's good to have price options - we just need to know where the corners are cut.

The problem is ... If the budget clinics were upfront and said 'We don't use magnification so you might get multi's in your hairline and/or thin patches where we bunched singles but hey what do you expect for the price!'

Instead the website states "He (Dr Yaman) is committed to staying active in this field through ongoing education and incorporating the latest advances into his practice."

Loupes were first used is 1876🙃

I believe they are a recommend clinic on here?

I think @Melvin- Moderator should clarify if and how magnification is used?

5 hours ago, JoeMan said:

Maybe look at Dr. Bisanga instead. Seems like he'd be less risky to me. I don't doubt that Dr. Arshad figured out a problem and corrected it but do you want to be the test subject? All Dr's can have a bad case from time to time but to have a rash of them is more concerning. 

I'm with Joe on this one. 

Your donor looks great and the recipient is progress nicely.

Cheers for the update.

On 3/6/2022 at 8:11 PM, AJ_HT said:

I definitely don't want to go back for another free/complimentary touch-up.

I don't know. Do clinics offer a refund in such cases?

The OP has put his cards on the table - he wants his money back

4 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I remain concerned that he's being censored here and I don't want to give further reason to censor him further by having his post closed. 

Good call - It's a poignant time for all us with what is going on in the world.

"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - Voltaire

37 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design. We don't really know why they drew it this way. Maybe they didn't have to go so low. Maybe the OP asked for it. Who knows?

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U mean to tell me dis guy is a mute? He can’t speak up and say ‘yo don’t lower my hairline’ dis is straight up dumb

Come on @JoeMan you don't really think a patient sits there like a lemon and has no input in the hair line. Much less someone who has already had the experience of a failed transplant and done extensive research. Remember your design consultation?

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..... then we discussed the hairline. The Dr suggested that I don't get exactly symmetrical HL due to the fact that my head is slightly off. He advised me to keep it this way. I still wanted symmetry and we both agreed to meet in the middle. Slightly off symmetry but not as far off as his original line.

6 minutes ago, Captain Haddock said:

Also, that messaging censorship was shady AF

Agreed!

10 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I know it's a repair job but what I'm saying is you're assuming that this is the reason for the HL design.

This...

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Now what's the chance of a poor transplant from a shady clinic but they aced the hairline😊

Hairlines are the trickiest element of a HT. To think that you walk out of a shady clinic with a poor HT but somehow have a winning hairline is fanciful.

8 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

Saying its a repair case is just your assumption on HL design. We don't know what the reason for going lower was.

The OP told us 

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My first transplant was from a shady clinic in 2017 which I had got without doing much research, and obviously, the results were poor.

Now what's the chance of a poor transplant from a shady clinic but they aced the hairline😊

5 minutes ago, JoeMan said:

I fail to see how any of this adds to anything other than trying to badger the op. People complain about this being 6 pages long but continue to pile on in my opinion. This of course triggers a reply by the OP. 

It's important because it is what he told us in his own word We only have the information provided as we weren't present during the consultation/pre-procedure.

I believe in his own words it debunks the idea that there was some miscalculation. The clinic were working within the constraints of the donor. No doubt this was a factor in the other doctors all estimating a similar number of grafts.

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Maybe the other clinics wouldn't have gone so far down.

Lets remember this is a repair. I previously detailed (see below), during a repair a clinic may/will need to reconstruct a new hairline. If we are to be balanced it would be disrespectful to accuse an experience doctor/clinic of just wasting grafts lowering a hairline for no reason.  They were the one looking at the hairline, in person and making their judgement based on difficult case.

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I'm prepared to give the clinic the benefit of the doubt on re-establishing a new hairline, given it was a repair job. The repair is not to lower the hairline. Rather it is by-product of creating a new natural hairline. A poor hairline from a previous procedure often has multiples, mis-angled grafts, incorrect design.

You contend that Eugenix miscalculated the number of grafts.

But you told us....

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To get a correction, I did extensive research and went to Eugenix after meeting at least 8-9 different doctors in India in 2020.

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because all the doctors I had met, told me that extracting 2500-3000 grafts was not a problem

So after your extensive research all the doctors were quoting you a similar number of grafts to the number you received at Eugenix.

Did they all miscalculate? all 8-9 different doctors?

What concerns me about your presentation is the inconsistencies.

You told the forum at the start(1st post)

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because all the doctors I had met, told me that extracting 2500-3000 grafts was not a problem, considering I have dense, thick hair at the back of my head.

Then find out...

Then you tell us....

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The donor would not support more than 2500 grafts - which is true.

You have done a complete 180. Any donor that will not support any more than 2500 has been significantly depleted and is far from 'dense and thick'. 

Another vote for once in the morning. If you use it at night the solution will get transferred to your pillow and then to your face. You might grow 5 more hairs but look 5 years older 😊

I just checked the one I use. Ketoconazole is the active ingredient. Mine is 20mg, which is where the 2% comes from.

I've noticed a big difference is price for the Nizoral product, so worth shopping around and buying multiple units at discount.

A hair transplant can be a life changing event, many times for the good but sometimes the bad. Verify all the information you are given. We have never been better equipped to check clinics and their results. Forums such HRN are a great resource. Caveat emptor - 'let the buyer beware'

Take a look at my recent post regard checking the documents you may be asked to sign.

3 hours ago, ANDYMAL said:

and whether there are obligations to sign specific documents, and if there is some detriment to you if you don't sign. 

Very sensible. You may not have followed all of this thread but @Melvin- Moderator discovered the OP declined to sign one of the documents. It transpires it may have been a Non Disclosure Agreement (NDA).

We await Melvin reporting back to the community and to see a copy of the said document.

General advice to anyone, you should always be provided in advance, documents you are required to sign. 
With all the stress and strain of a long haul flight the sights and sounds of a foreign country, you don't want to try to navigate the legalise of documents you have never seen before. In many cases, people travel from around the world, and the document may not be written in your mother tongue.

In summary, if a clinic doesn't automatically send you the documents, request them, check them and make sure you understand what you are signing.

2 minutes ago, AJ_HT said:

Yes there's a difference. The beard hair is more coarse than scalp hair. But I had seen a video of Dr Arika herself, where she said that when beard hair is used, it is generally done in the mid-scalp and mixed with scalp hair.

I also understand that doing it in the hairline doesn't show very well. But the point is, my midscalp has a mix of beard and scalp hair. If donor density was a problem, the scalp hair could all be used in the hairline rather than mid-scalp. I also think that Melvin and Gatsby have had their transplants done recently using majorly beard hair, if I'm not wrong.

So for Eugenix, using beard hair should not have been a problem, had they needed to.

I'm no authority on the use of beard hair, so I defer to those with more experience. Beard hair, like any other donor area, is a limited resource. How much supply of beard hair is available after removing 300 grafts? 

Even if you have an additional supply of beard hair it doesn't follow that you can free up scalp hair to go in the front while using beard in the mid-scalp. The integration of scalp hair and beard hair allows the illusion to work. Use less scalp hair in the midscalp and things turn odd very quickly.

Not only is beard hair a problem for the reasons above, but it is also has poor coverage. Unlike scalp hair, you don't get 3 and 4 hair grafts.

Maybe I know more about beard hair than I thought😊