NARMAK

1 hour ago, UAE2India said:

Hi everybody, Long time lurker, first time poster etc etc.

I'm booked in to Eugenix in 2 weeks time for circa 2000 grafts on my norwood 2 and I am going down the partial shave route for (client facing) work purposes. I can only find one example of a partial shave Eugenix HT on the forum and so was wondering if anybody can share  their experiences, any images of their progress, tips on remaining subtle.

Much obliged!

I asked the doctor if they could do it like a partial shave and was told the result would be better if it was shaved. So i understand you're client facing, but this is something you seriously should have thought about prior to booking and something you need to ask Eugenix directly because they would be the only people to tell you if you can have it done that way. 

Personally i think a person should always take some time off work to heal after the operation and then after that 10 day post-op period up to maybe 14 days, things might begin to look more normal and like a buzzed hair cut. 

I always think this topic exhibits a very specific response when you say "Juvenile" and mention your hairline as a kid. 

If however as an adult, you have stabilised hair loss and aim for a more "mature" hairline, which respects the proportion of "thirds" to keep harmony, and your hair loss isn't excessive, NW3 or earlier, i think you could risk it providing you are supremely confident you won't be losing more hair behind and chasing the loss. 

19 hours ago, MazAB said:

Month 3 

Happy New Year guys!

Growth is starting to kick in. Numbness, itchiness, and redness are nearly gone at this stage. The 1st time around it was right at the 3.5 month mark that growth really started to kick in and it feels like I'm on the same schedule for this one as I'm now seeing small hairs sprouting out daily. Temporal regions are visually more dense already which I'm very happy about. Although it's hard to see the growth behind the new hairine, the recipient area from the 1st transplant is definitely starting to look and feel a tad bit fuller.😁

Looking awesome at 3.5 months Armen. I think the fact the foundation was set quite well for you first go means the added density is blending in really well with the previous hairline. Obviously the newer point is lower down and that will take time to fill in, and i know more than well enough our brains will hyper focus on just that part that's not there yet, but i have strong faith and hope you're going to get a smashing result. 

17 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Glad to see you posting here, I've been binge reading your thread lately. Amazing journey.

Francisco Lachowski's hairline is amazing, that man won the lottery face and hair wise. 

Regarding bone structure and head shape influencing hairline aesthetics, that's quite true. I've investigated that a lot and concluded it's mostly because of facial proportions and forehead slope:

 

As a rule of thumb, bitemporal width should be 85-90% of the bizygomatic width (the width of the cheekbones) for the best aesthetics. However, what if someone's cheekbones are too wide? Then he could would benefit from higher bitemporal width because it merges well with the bigonial width (the jaw width), which is not the outlier in this fictional scenario. 

Also noticed that people with straighter foreheads usually have more prominent temporal peaks on average. This morph changes lots of things, but ignore them and just look at the temporal peaks, which are unchanged. They "look" more prominent due to the straight forehead, but they aren't:

Francisco Lachowski has average width cheekbones and not a very sloped forehead, so the prominent temples naturally look great on him.

Someone with ie very wide cheekbones and a very sloped forehead could get his cheekbones reduced and his forehead augmented before having the hair transplant to accomodate the new desired hairline with temples more prominent than ever. You know what they say, if there's a will, there's a way...(not saying it should be done in all cases, but it could be done, it's a real possibility).

Food for thought tbh, sorry for the long rambling.

 

 

No rambling at all, loved how you infused a more scientific and maths based approach to the design discussion just there and thanks for reading my journey. 

In the first picture of David Gandy, you have his original face and aesthetically the hairline fits that face really well, but the 2nd photo morphs his facial features significantly so its not a completely 1:1 comparison which is why it looks almost like a completely different person. The forehead, nose and chin all change making it seem like a different person that's dressed in the same clothes trying to do the same pose.

That's why you have to be careful when using photoshop morphs imo. 

Temple point design wise, talking from personal experience when choosing it, i didn't want it completely vertical which i didn't think would aesthetically fit but i also didn't want to have them as acute as Eugenix usually tended to design them so i tried to do a LOT of research on the aesthetic choice but i always would take my pictures i used to get my consultation and edit the temple point designs in an almost MS paint fashion on my phone to try determine what was best for me. I used Francisco Lachowski and Sean O'Pry as reference points as well as Jake Gylenhaal to tweak to myself. 

I think i'm very happy with the aesthetic design i chose but i would have in hindsight tweaked the right temple point to match the left and as things stand, i definitely feel like i would need a 2nd HT to get to the level of density and aesthetic refinement i would want. I'd like to dense pack the temple points more as well as the frontal hairline and tweak the design ever so slightly to match the left as mentioned and just create a slightly more feathered look a mm or so below where the hair HT was done with higher density. 

I think ultimately what a lot of individuals want to do is try to keep their damn hair in the first place. The saying "Prevention is better than the cure" is particularly poignant when it comes to hair loss. I'm probably sounding greedy with things, but i genuinely wish i started Finasteride around 18-21 and preserved my hair even more at the front and the 1st HT probably could have been a one and done. 

On 1/7/2023 at 8:43 PM, Mountinvan said:

Hi all---just saw that Brett posted his 6-month results on YouTube. No question about it--2400 grafts into an NW2 (is that correct?) hairline and it shows lots of hair. My question is the refinement of it when you see the curly implanted hairs when he pulls back his hair. It just looks odd up close or is that my imagination? Anyway, I can see definite improvement. Do you agree?

No question about it

Just had a chance to watch the video and tbh, it's funny that he touched on Finasteride and how he hasn't started because there's loads of friends he knows that got "PFS" etc. which maybe somehow in his circle, there's a disproportionately affected amount of people, but i think it goes to show that sometimes people trust the word of those they know more and so on.

The hairline is interesting because i think what the clinic tried and failed to achieve was the "feathered" look and that's why he has picked up on that disconnect between the two areas and the lack in appropriate density to give that feathered gradation in the transition period. 

That said, i almost feel like his donor area being shown off isn't going to be the best because of the fact the hairs long enough to hide any issues better than if it was much shorter but i think he's been pretty fortunate that most of the grafts appear to have survived that give him the denser look. 

That said, this won't help with young guys being influenced to end up in a hair mill unfortunately. 

On 1/9/2023 at 4:16 PM, Fue3361 said:

Consider a small drop of minoxidil on your eyebrows every day.  Within 6 months they can double+ in density.  It’s insanely easy and effective.

Believe me when i say, the biggest worry i would have with that is accidentally getting hair on the outer part of the brows almost like hyper trichosis. That said, properly applied and carefully, i was considering using it myself on the very outer parts of my own eyebrows. Although blessed generally with thickness in shape and density on the inner to middle parts, towards the outer it begins to lose a bit of density. I don't want to grow the size of the brows but increasing the density of that area would be amazing. 

I think what's really funny is that OP used Francisco Lachowski as one og the examples in the OP and when i went for my HT, that's actually one of the hairline designs i also used for reference with Dr Das. However, and i cannot stress this enough to people. Your head shape and bone structures what determines sometimes how your hairline ends up looking sometimes a lot more than the design would have you realise and why some people can actually get away with having a better look visually for less grafts. 

That said, temple points ALWAYS need two things. One is sufficient density but with a properly natural and feathered appearance using the right calibre of hair at the closest angles near to the skin. Second is the aesthetic choice of design. 

12 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Dude, common. The light is behind you 🤣Imagine that in the movies actors were lited from behind, we wouldn't see sh*t. 

The thing is that you had mature hairline (norwood2) with pretty high density, i think it was at least 60-70 grafts/cm2. And now you lowered your hairline to Norwood 1, but with lower density around 40 grafts/cm2. So obviously you see that density is worse then previously and you are little dissapointed. 

Based on this pictures i think that procedure was successful and this 1300 grafts on the hairline are growing good. And yes, you will need at least another 650 grafts to achieve density that you had on norwood 2 hairline.

 

About the left temple - this picture that you comb left temple and it reveals blank space, it's really weird. You had full coverage of this area, so something is wrong. Were you trimming down the temples or you let it grow for 8 months? 

I had my barber accidentally trim the temple point i think once with a guard 2 or something months and months ago, but it's basically not had a single hair cut since my operation. 

The original spacing of the temple points had more gaps imo than they should have. I think they should have been about as dense packed as the hairline. 

Regarding the pictures, i completely understand what you mean. The lighting isn't in a perfect spot. From behind and people think it's too dim. In front and it's exposed unrealistically too.

I will try get some outdoor pictures guys, but let me hit the Month 8 mark and i'll do it more properly. 

I think the foundations there, but the temple points being so thin and light is a little disconcerting for me tbh and density not quite how it looks even for other people but maybe that's because they had actual hair there. 

7.5ish Month Update

Okay, this update is very long overdue and i apologise but life unfortunately has been getting in the way. Hopefully you all are having a great start to the new year. 

I'm actually going to start off with posting pictures i took a little earlier towards the end of December which were wet hair slicked back. The dry hair pictures are from today after drying them. No styling products. 

I still don't really think i'm at a stage where i will be making a final judgement on everything just yet as that would be unfair, but per my previous observation. The frontal hairline matured much quicker and i think the majority of the growth that i would get has probably happened by now. However, the temple points aren't maturing at a similar rate either. The right side for example still seems lighter to me both in terms of how it looks and i guess the density although i do need to also post a small reminder the right temple point was 330 grafts and the left was 400 grafts. Not sure if that's factoring in or perhaps something else. 

Also depending on the lighting, things can look a little better or worse visually. As a bonus, to highlight the rough density of the temple points, i've tried to comb it forwards and expose the way that the density appears. When it is combed normally backwards in that direction, the hair can "layer" a bit and appear better but you still get the idea. 

I think at a stage coming up to 8 months, with perhaps 4+ months of the typical 12 month timescale people cite, i want to be honest too with my gut feeling. It doesn’t feel like this first pass may give me the blended density to a high enough level for one reason or another. I don't think it is just down to unrealistic expectations for example. 

I thought when originally i went, 2200 grafts was the ballpark with 1500 for the frontal hairline and the temple points with roughly 350 grafts each. Obviously the doctors got a better grasp on things and in the end it was circa 2010 grafts. 

I think i need maybe another few hundred grafts for each temple point to get much closer to the desired density i think would completely finish the temple points off. For the frontal hairline, i think maybe another 1k to 1200 grafts to refine it and basically max the density out would make it look much closer to a complete result. I think as far as a first pass goes, i'm waiting with optimism to see the final result around 12-18 months time frame. 

On 1/4/2023 at 11:29 AM, Bandit90 said:

Month 10 Update 

Happy new year all! Thought I would change things up for the month 10 update and share photos in harsher outdoor lighting. I’m pleased with the overall density of the results so far and even under the toughest lighting conditions i.e. outdoors, it still gives the appearance of a relatively fullish-looking head of hair for the front and mid-scalp which I am delighted with. Crown-wise I am now at month 3, and still not a huge amount to report, I can certainly tell this is going to be a lot slower growing than the front, but that’s common knowledge I suppose. The implanted hairs into the side corridors on the second sitting are also starting to come through.  All in all very happy to date and sometimes have to remind me of my starting position. Very much a working project, however I am hoping to be one of the lucky higher norwoods who are done in two sitting.  

That frontal hairlines looking immaculate bud. The crown is also starting to form very slowly but with what appears to look like plenty of potential and cannot wait to see the final results! 

46 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Perfect symmetry being the most attractive is a fallacy. The nuances in a person’s features is what makes people attractive in my opinion. Even when they do perfect symmetry on attractive people their normal facial balance, which is asymmetrical looks the most attractive. That’s why facial plastic surgery that tries to look perfect always looks odd and artificial. Definitely not attractive in my book. 
 

A perfect example is Madonna, she was very attractive, she had some asymmetry, not a lot but some. Now she’s perfectly symmetrical, but she looks like a doll. That’s not an attractive look, and I think most would agree. This is why you never chase perfection with surgery. Surgery should enhance your features, not perfect.

 

Hairlines were never meant to look like someone drew it with a ruler. It’s natural to have asymmetry, and what is found in nature is always best. Hair is unlike anything else, the teeth analogy doesn’t make sense. Teeth are straightforward, even if you can tell they’re veneer’s it’s not as taboo as hair.

Social stigma is nowhere near as bad with teeth as it is with hair. Insurance companies PAY for braces and even invisalign, when will you ever see an insurance company pay for hair transplants? The answer is never. Unless it’s for gender reassignment.

Here’s an example of a symmetrical hairline that looks artificial. Definitely not natural. Because it’s too straight and symmetrical the eyes will always perceive it as artificial. 


 

Hairlines need to have some asymmetry to look natural. It’s pure nonsense to suggest otherwise. Here’s an example of what I consider to be a perfect transplanted hairline. The subtle asymmetry, the shape, everything about this hairline looks natural. This is as good as it gets with surgery. When you compare the two, the difference is astounding.

I don't think you can take a regular person with asymmetry and mirror the left and right sided of their faces and basically call that a "Perfect" version of symmetry. 

What a lot of good looking people usually have in common as i said is facial features that are proportional and work in harmony. That's why when you take that person like in your example and simply mirror the two sides, it doesn't give sometimes a natural looking result and the "regular" version appears better. 

That's why usually Photoshop is used for retouching because it aims to balance out the persons symmetry and keep things proportional. 

Regarding the hairline, i would argue that the one you say is too symmetrical, that it's bigger issues are that the temple points are significantly weaker and that's why it makes the frontal hairline stand out even more and a bit artificial looking. 

That said, these things are all on a spectrum and imo it's also about what you sometimes prefer. 

5 minutes ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

So years after fut it can still stretch the scar to take up a bigger space? Wow. Respect to people who undergo that procedure knowing the risk. Mine would definitely scar bad due to poor healing

Best thing to do is not hyper focus on one thing but get a proper professional consultation with a top clinic whose work you like and trust the consistency of. 

For me personally, i do not think we have a "Perfect" option right now for hair loss whether that is medication or hair transplants. We have an option though that can help and improve the well being i would say of those people that usually undergo it. 

My personal opinion on this is that the closer you can get to symmetry, the better. Almost all top models and beautiful people are more symmetrical. That's not even up for debate. 

Now, there are some minor nuances in us as humans but personally i would say reaching to a more symmetrical hairline doesn't mean if its sprinkled in with the right micro and macro irregularities to look natural that it won't look good. I personally wish i had addressed my temple point design to be more symmetrical for example. If i go for a second procedure, i will get that addressed 100%.

Facial harmony is the most important thing when it comes to the way a person looks and we are formed by the sum of all our parts to determine that. That's why even the best looking people that lag behind in one or a couple of areas still can excel. 

6 hours ago, JoDimaggio22 said:

When we refer to skin laxity are we referring to the tightness of your skin to head? My skin has like zero fat or zero ability to pinch anything so I’d say it is as tight against my skull as possible. That is probably a bad thing for fut because it can stretch it?

That is a form of skin laxity in that specific area. So usually if you firmly press your hand/fingers against the back of your head, if it moves enough or more, that indicates it has more elasticity. However, the thing that kind of puts me off FUT is the fact that the scar has got the possibility to stretch too over time. 

I just wish we frigging get unlimited clone grafts sooner rather than later. I would much prefer a top notch clinic use those for the obvious reasons that you don't exhaust a finite donor supply and can actually get massive amount of potential to even address a desire to increase density from what you may natively have that you don't like. 

8 hours ago, mister_25 said:

What would you say is the ideal candidate for a FUT/FUE mix? I would probably say a high Norwood (5/6/7) with limited donor (poor density w/ retrograde)

I would actually argue that it all comes down to the skill of the surgeons and clinics. FUT becoming less common has led to quite a fall in the people with the skill required for the smallest looking pencil line scar which you could deal with more easily imo. 

Imho, imagine anybody, that has an average laxity etc. gets FUT and then a pencil line scar. You can then more easily SMP and FUE in even beard hairs to there and make it much more easily invisible. 

FUE covers a much larger area, whereas with FUT you can recut into the same line and only marginally increase it. 

Dr Mwamba states FUT after FUE is a better way to go about things, as you cherry pick FUE for the frontal hairline and then FUT to max out the donor for the crown etc. but personally i think FUE is so good that it's almost not necessary for FUT at all. 

On 12/29/2022 at 4:01 PM, Madhur Vansil said:

Hi Guys,

       I had my Hair transplant from Eugenix Gurgaon in September 2022 and I am currently at 103 days post op .You can look at my journey as I will post my journey link at last . After my HT I started taking Finasteride 10 days post HT and recently I have noticed more shedding of non-HT hairs too around 20-25 .Is this some sign of concern or does it happens to everyone ?

Although I have researched on google and they say shedding is normal and it’s a good sign but clearly wants to know your experiences of shedding with Finasteride .

 

For more details -

 

Finasteride can help shed weak hair quicker and force them to regrow. It's nothing to be worried about but it can make you see more hair falling and worry you. I think this "shedding" when people use Finasteride and even Minoxodil is what causes them to freak out and actually stop not realising this is a normal part of the process for the hair to regrow stronger. 

For anybody just starting medication and seeing more hairfall. Keep pushing through and take monthly progress pictures. By the 12+ months mark, you should see noticeable improvement if the medication is working for you. 

The actual hair follicle is buried below the skins dermis, and so you should be safe but it is very possible to damage hair with excessive heat etc. and that's why the hair may need to be cut down eventually to allow it to refresh as it grows out and gets longer again but there's usually no permanent damage imo. 

OP, unless you have a serious side affect occurring, if your DHT is that low and you're functioning properly, then there's no real reason imo at least to be massively worried and trying to raise DHT levels. 

Right now, if you are losing hair, then Finasteride, Dutasteride and the Oral Minoxodil are the strongest things you could be on to counter DHT even when on TRT whilst trying to keep your hair. 

I have made reference to in the past trying to wish i started my medication regimen even earlier and i wouldn't have thought twice about that DHT level tbh unless it affected me with a load of sides. 

39 minutes ago, Madhur Vansil said:

Hey Kamran , How’s the progress ? 
 

Waiting for your 7th Month update 🙂

Hey bud, thanks for the post. I am definitely late on these things. I will be updating as soon as i have had a chance to take pictures. Just been a bit busy with personal life. 

I'll post pictures and give a detailed reply of how i feel about things at 7 months.

I had 330 on one temple point and then 400 on another according yo the graft breakdown but what i can say is that i don't think that figure may have yielded the right look visually for me, so it's not always about the number of grafts too either imo. 

OP, you're literally nearing the end of the Ugly Duckling phase and things should start improving from here but it will take some time. 6 months is a better indicator of how things are progressing but still not perfect as some people could grow later too. 

I personally had more gaps in my hairline that concerned me around months 4, 5 and even up to 6 but i feel like there's less gaps but density is what concerns me still. 

Also my temple points aren't as matured as i would have liked at this point and density doesn't seem to match up with the frontal hairline. I'm just going to say, as a general rule of thumb, 3 months is way too early to be worrying. 

9 hours ago, Gabbck said:

I had two surgeries, first one with a crappy Dr and the second one with a prominent and considered one of the best  Dr's

On the first they had a big tv and told me I could watch any movies I wanted, I didn't do it as I though it would be a distraction, the techs were overall quiet if I remember correctly

With the top Dr the techs were both women, kind of friends I guess and talked between them a bit, not to the point of pissing me off but enough that I remember

My take is that it should be a very quiet environment, the work is all that matters, chit chat should be minimum and the techs talking between themselves could be saved for their lunch break or whenever the hell they are not working on someone's head

Obviously is a sensitive matter as antagonizing the people doing the HT could not be the best idea, and by brining it up beforehand with them or the Dr they can easily see it as you telling them how to do their jobs and people are easily offended nowadays

What are your experiences and what do you consider behavior that can end up affecting results?

 

I think expecting complete silence by individuals over 7-8hrs is a ridiculous demand and whilst i respect that you value having that, you should buy some ear buds to block noise or put some earphones in and listen to music. 

You should also choose a hair transplant clinic that has well trained clinics. 

I would rather a tech team be able to feel like they are letting things be done efficiently and use music/chat not as a distraction per se but way to keep their brains engaged. Just as something becomes monotonous, this can cause an issue for people's concentration too and they could make mistakes in that silence too. It's a double edged sword i guess but whatever the case, a team should be highly trained and capable imo. I understand certain conversations may not be to the liking of everyone, but again, you have the responsibility for yourself. 

I agree the consequences for bad techs can mean repair and a longer journey, but this again goes back to your choice generally because good hair transplant clinics pay techs usually in Western countries well enough to be with them for decades. 

I do think however i completely appreciate the argument fr other side of the coin though. 

42 minutes ago, drawdownfx said:

Oh c'mon Melvin he's still using LG Chocolate to upload his updates. @NARMAK update your damn phone bro  

P.S. could you update the title to 3027 grafts @Melvin- Moderator

P.P.S Forgot to mention roughly 200 grafts were used for each temples.

You take that back! Everybody loves chocolate!

Great write up and really chuffed for you that everything has gone well so far. Lots of rest, patience and small touch of luck now should see you get a solid result. 

I'm looking forwards to seeing the temple point results as i definitely think they help to cement a solid hairline too. 

13 minutes ago, AB0274 said:

When it comes to Finasteride, what should I expect from shedding? (Again, I take it it varies person to person). 
 

but I often hear of the "shedding cycle" when you start Finasteride. Is this shedding at the same rate you would untreated, or does it accelerate and then subside? All going well 

Finasteride can cause weaker hairs to accelerate into the shedding phase and the loss of density from this makes people feel like it didn't work etc. not knowing it takes 3 months or so for a hair cycle. 

I strongly suggest people stay on the medication for a minimum of 12 months and evaluate with monthly progress pictures to compare with their base line. 

If you respond positively to Finasteride, you can see improvements even up to 10+ years. Google the Finasteride  10 year Japanese study to see picture comparisons. 

I personally am heading into my 2nd year on medication and hoping it has continued to improve things but i also think i have to address other things with my diet, vitamin levels etc. 

I think he's got a solid YouTube channel that hits the entertainment/info balance, but for the price he would probably charge, i'd reckon you may wish to go with more trusted hair transplant doctors/clinics. 

I think he's probably still getting embedded and building his reputation but he probably won't be on the recommended list here because he's probably getting enough business off his YouTube stuff.