digi23

3 hours ago, NARMAK said:

Dr Das did check for me and said 1 was lost and the others were dislodged and i think placed back where they should be. 

So, i do not have the official pictures pre-op and post-op from Eugenix just yet but they have been requested and hopefully i will get them soon. I'm also going to put a mote through write up of Day 2 as we did end up splitting the procedure up. 

For now though, here's a few pictures of the temple points, the frontal hairline and also the board with the final graft count. It was 400 for the left temple, 330 for the Right Temple. The total graft count ended up being 2010 including the lost graft i believe. So the frontal hairline was restored with nearly 1280ish.

This is under the 2200 originally we thought it could be but i think Dr Das was probably impeccable in drawing it out and packing it densely enough just below where my current hairline used to be to frame the temples and hairline will. 

I kept it more shallow and flat than a deeper M shape and i kind of prefer it that way.

I also got my wish on having the temple points extend out a bit further to help narrow the forehead but not to the point it looks way too boxed. 

Well, hopefully these tide you guys over for now. 

This will be fun to follow, thats alot of temple work, will be a very good look since your temples was so receded.

Hope the flight goes well! 😊

I have now removed about 500 grafts from the temples. Posting photos in a bit.

5 hours ago, CJH said:

12 months (also comparison before treatment)

That hairline is good even in sunlight. 

Really nice result, Dr Munib is a real pro.

Enjoy your new hair!

20 hours ago, general-etwan said:

I don’t agree. In my interpretation, overharvesting is the removal of too many follicular units from the overall donor area. Choosing an arbitrary confined area on which to evaluate isn’t helpful; as an industry we evaluate the entire donor area. 

250 would not be an overharvesting. Poor pattern of removal is more so poor harvesting. But it’s not a big deal as long as you can describe the situation accurately. 
 

https://www.chicagohairinstitute.com/blog/2020/02/18/hair-loss-retreatment-for-overharvesting-204005

Removal of too many follicular units from the overall donor area is called donor depletion. Donor overharvesting can as I said be done with 10 grafts extracted if youd like to, just remove 10 grafts that sit beside eachother and you have a small round gap.

1 hour ago, general-etwan said:

This is an odd mishandled case for sure...your donor area doesn't look overharvested to me, though; it looks to me that too much was taken from specific areas and not enough from others. The grafts should have been taken more uniformly across the entire back of your head. How they could have been taken in isolated patches like that...hard to understand.

You are saying it is not overharvesting then you are describing that he is overharvested, you can overharvest on a case with only 250 grafts extracted if you want to. The extraction in all cases need to be extracted homogenously, to remove too many grafts in a certain area makes that area overharvested even if you just remove a couple of hundred grafts.

Wow looks dense

Good

On 5/3/2022 at 12:30 AM, Melvin- Moderator said:

4 Month Update

 

Looks great! Homerun result

15 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

Wish you the best of results. You are in absolutely brilliant hands.

Interesting comment. 

Could you elaborate?

You guys also like to sort grafts by eye without loupes or microscopes?

To the TS: I wish you best of luck!

10 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are truly sorry to hear that you have had to go through this experience. We value you and it pains us to know that you have the issues as mentioned.

There are certain points we would like to keep:

1. The direction of the transplanted hair on the temples are purposely kept down and back so that the area behind the temple points do not look bald.

2. The transplanted temple hair are thicker than the natural temple hair.

3. The natural temple hair have more vellus/ baby hair whereas the transplanted temples do not.

4. The transplanted temples are 70% to 80% close to natural hair and not 100%.

5. There has been a loss of pre existing hair in your temples due to baldness that has also contributed to the look that has now dissatisfied you so.

6. The donor area will exhibit the absence of the extracted hair if you keep your hair very short.

However, we would request you to get in touch with us and tell us what you would want further. We would be very grateful and more than happy to comply. We wish you the best!

Well, this is only multis in the temple, with awful angulation

51 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

I kinda get what you're saying and by no means will you see me defending the temple point that went wrong but one is pretty much perfect looking even at a low fade. Thin hairs that actually match what a temple point should contain. I think the slight problem with the directions you drew is that they're already difficult enough to get right and as flat as possible to the angle needed against the skin. I don't know how much more "right" it would be trying to mimic that natural hair. After all, hair transplants are not a natural recreation to 100% of what was there but a close approximation to mimic by and large the same result within the limitations of what we have in todays technology. 

I sure as heck think like i said, they botched one temple with hairs that are much thicker rather than perhaps the angulation aspect being the more glaring issue. The donors just unacceptable by their own standards too. 

I do not also say any of this lightly or to hurt the OP, in fact, i'm extremely grateful to @Captain Haddockfor sharing this all for us to pick through to properly evaluate the clinic and hopefully ensure they do not ever repeat this again. Also, i do think it would only be fair for Eugenix to fix this for OP free of charge considering the lead surgeon was the founder themselves.

I once asked what happens if something goes wrong and a rep replied that its the responsibility of Eugenic Hair Sciences. Let's see what that means in practical terms now there's an actual example of something that requires genuine remedy. 

Yes the side I did looks much better than the other side according to his photos, but the photos is of very low quality. The side you mention is totally off yes.

This is the side I did, it did grow out pretty alright if you look at this pic, but its very pixelated, cant see any details.

Temple work needs insane skills. But what you see at Day 10 angulation wise is 99.9% of the time what you see when it later grow out after ugly duckling phase.

On 3/9/2022 at 9:35 PM, Captain Haddock said:

Well if I have to be completely honest I can't do these styles anymore because 1. The punch holes from the donor would be visible (I have a bit of a pattern at the back) and 2. My left temple looks horrendous. I've tried it and here are some pictures.

The right temple looks amazing but the left won't co-operate. 

In your case if your donor extraction is spaced apart well and the angulations match I don't see why you won't be able to rock it.

 

It was pretty easy to spot at Day 10 that the temples would not look good, I had the same problem with mine. Transplanted hair is supposed to follow the directions of the native hair, the directions can vary but the Dr need to follow it for it to look natural. Ontop of that, they used wrong hair, they used to thick grafts.

Black = Transplanted hair

White = Native

On 4/26/2022 at 5:40 PM, mafpe said:

several clinic does, the timing vary, but usually they only tap very lightly on the next day, without any real pressure or nudge on the grafts

Yes, I had the day after surgery. 

7 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Curious, 

You have been active a while, never once posted a picture of yourself or your results, if you’ve even had surgery. I’m sure you have reasons. So is it inconceivable that perhaps people don’t approve their pictures used for purposes other than the reason they posted them? I find it odd those who are so vociferously asking for this, are individuals who won’t share any pictures themselves. 

You seem to put weight on the active members to participate with their own story.

For example @J.A.C have been here since 2013, 10 000 posts, not a single photo of himself or his hairloss journey.

Claiming 5 hair transplants, 2 at Ziering in UK, 1 at Longevita, 1 at Dr Maral and 1 at unknown in Turkey according to his posts. 

27 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

God damn less then a dollar a graft! 

You are not doing a good job at hiding your identity.

No photos and no threads about your hair loss but 500+ posts. Lol.

I think the pricing is not of the greatest importance when you see guys like Dr Diep doing corn fields on the daily for some 8+ dollars per graft?

1 hour ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Bro how much did u pay in total? 

He is advertised before and what I thought was 1 euro per graft. They had a discounted price they said, so instead I had to pay about 0.9 euro per graft, 2350 euros for 2500 grafts initially. 

I also contacted Dr Demirsoy who said something like 3250 euros. 

I contacted FueCapilar which is a very popular clinic later with great results, they said about the same price as Yaman.

I choose Dr Yaman as he was forum recommended, member of the IAHRS and also because some people on the forum which is considered knowledgeable said he was a good Dr, if you want the background to my choice.

It might sound like a low price, but if you take into account a Dr charging 1 euro per graft in Turkey would be approx the equivelant of a Dr charging 3-4 euro per graft in Spain if you compare their economies. The ones who charge that in Spain is some of the best Drs in Europe.

If we apply your logic, the Drs charging 3-4 euros per graft in Europe should be terrible, because great Drs in US is charging 10-14 euros per graft.

28 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Based on the updated photos, I wouldn’t say the hairline is good, but it’s acceptable. It’s definitely not a botch-job. I looked back at the first page, and it’s an improvement from before without a doubt. It would be better for us to examine if you could post some before photos. So the rest of the community can judge themselves. 

I agree that the hairline is acceptable, the temples botched. In total you can decide.

The hairline is easy fixable with some singles infront. 

I have removed a couple of the thickest ones in the hairline corners aswell already with electrolysis.

Here you can see the details of each row. 

Also a photo on how soft my temples looked before and my front. My hair is thin as I said and very soft looking which can make thicker hairs stand out alot.

13 minutes ago, RandoBrando517 said:

Doesn’t look bad how much did u pay again?

It is a fair point. It might look good for the price. 

If it was not for the temples I would have not cared about the many doubles in the hairline, because I dont really look for perfect. 

40 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I appreciate criticism, I’m not perfect, but when you say “I can’t speak to you, you’re too biased towards the clinic.” That’s not a critique, that’s an accusation.
Can you post before pictures too? 

I apologize, I should have wrote an option where we just have a different look at what good work is. 

My main concern is just if we take magnification into account. 

If you have blurry vision, you have on your license that you can only drive with glasses or contact lenses. You forget your glasses at home, you drive anyways and hit a tree because of it on your way.

Is it then a mistake or is there a deeper problem?

I think this is a good description on how difficult a hair transplant without magnification is.

58 minutes ago, SGT said:

The OP opted for the cheaper package offered when he had his HT.  The more expensive option was offered which I believe insured single grafts were used on the hairline. That is how it was explained to me at least.  I opted to pay the extra 1k and mine seems to be fine.  I get the thorough review, but it comes to a point where it gets out of control.  The doctor the OP went to was on the cheaper side and he opted for the cheaper of the options and now was expecting every little detail to be perfect.  Sometimes you do "get what you pay for"  

Well you guys seems easily offended. 

The difference between the packages is FUE and the more expensive package is DHI. 

It is a difference in implantation technique, in my case Yaman Implanter was used. 

He is doing pre made slits in both cases of FUE or DHI.

Has nothing to do with what you are saying.

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Digi,

 I have been very tolerant towards you, even though you have thrown digs at me, no pun intended. But it stops now. I have been completely objective from the start. The temple points look bad, I have said that from the start. I can only speak on the pictures you’ve posted. Maybe it looks worse than the pictures. That is why I said “based on the photos presented here.” I have no bias towards this clinic.

I would say the same thing if the clinic wasn’t recommended. Refer to @EvansLawrence thread. HLC has zero affiliation with us, but I have to stay objective. I can’t just say it’s a complete “botch-job” if that’s not what I’m seeing through pictures. So how about you present some better updated photos, to show us the reality. Multiple angles with before and after comparisons. I cannot change my view simply because you’re unhappy. However, I can change my view based on photographic facts. 

I am sorry if you feel hurt if I question things you say, it is a forum in the end and I guess the point is to discuss both bad and amazing work, correct me if I am wrong.

I just think that it is good to evolve and get better at whatever you do and for that you need to be able to take critique, good or bad. 

We have not gotten a statement from the clinic about their use of magnification but we have sort of cleared it up because of your statement that they are investing in microscopes, added to that Dr Barghouti said it takes "hours for grafts to be sorted under microscopes" and my extraction was done by 1 person, the room was only accompanied by more people in the end of the extraction who helped to pull them out, followed by a short 15 min lunch break, which basically makes it impossible that it was used, if we are not seeing the Usain Bolt of sorting grafts under microscopes.

During implantation I did not see any loupes on any technician and on their Instagram no loupes is showing in their photos.

You have said that loupes is not important before in this thread. I hope you mean it is not important if microscopes is used, otherwise I would question if you ever listened and educated yourself what the great Drs you talk to every week told you.

Here you have some photos, I counted the other day, I counted to approx 25 doubles/multis in the front row. The second row I think is also important which should be only singles aswell, there you find multis and many doubles. It is not just multis in the hairline which we see from the terrible clinics but still needs another row of singles in my next transplant to make it look more natural. 

The density is not good enough for me, neither terrible but very see through. I have thin hair, 45 microns which ofcourse plays a role. 

There is a spot as you can see in the upper temple on one side which grew less.

Here you got some photos.

16 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I think some of are you are confusing what I said, let me be clear. Never ever did I say the temple points we’re good. In fact, I said they were bad on multiple occasions. I can only go based off the photos in this thread, but to me, the hairline itself isn’t bad. I believe it’s an acceptable outcome. Again, based off the photos presented here. I’m not referring to the temple points at all. 

From the photo you took out you see 1 multiple and couple doubles in the hairline there. Not sure what you want to have said with that.

Yes the yield is not terrible, but everything except the yield is.

Hair transplants is not about moving hair from one place to another, theres more to it in my opinion.

Its not even worth discussing with you as you have a obvious bias towards the clinic.

9 hours ago, HappyMan2021 said:

Curious why specifically you are going with Dr. Saifi for your repair? The only comprehensive review I've seen of Saifi is from Rossybop. And Rossybop wasn't a repair case. 

I have answered most before, but it is atleast 10 cases here on this forum that have followed through their whole 12 month journey, of 42 threads in total. 

I have seen about the same amount of reviews on other places than this forum aswell.

He is doing 1 patient a day using loupes and microscopes and he have been doing hair transplants exclusively since 1995.

I think his work looks very soft and natural, which I am looking for. 

He is very focused on preservation of the donor area and I really need someone who is taking care of that aspect aswell, I think my previous transplant had a slight overharvesting in certain places. 

I have talked to a few of his patients, specially the ones who done temple work with him, who have only said positive things.

Me and Dr Saifi have had a good talk ourselves, which I also had with Hattingen, Dr Sever Muresanu, but his pricing was 4,5 euro per graft and I think it is abit high and he does not really have much reviews aswell, although the reviews he have is very good cases.

I was also talking to HLC but had not really seen enough temple cases with them, I do think they are the best in Turkey though. I was always talking to a coordinator which talked to the Dr for me and it is always difficult to do this I think. Also I did not really want to go back to Turkey to be honest, the HLC coordinator is a great guy though. 

Thats about it, you can always have your doubts and why I dont want to go to some hype Dr reviewed 10 times a week is mainly due to the lack of contact and you cannot really discuss your thoughts and expectations with them beforehand, I was thinking about Dr Mwamba for some time aswell, but the contact with them is a mess, which many said here before. I think this might not have been a problem if it was my first transplant and very straight forward, but as of now I think I need a more personal touch to it.

11 hours ago, Berba11 said:

You're making good progress certainly and this is a very illuminating and interesting thread! I'm sorry you've had to go through this though.

I'm slightly surprised you've gone down this route rather than have a repair specialist punch the problem grafts out. In the right hands the scarring is usually non-existent and you wouldn't actually have needed many grafts taken out. There's an interesting case that a popular HT YouTube who's name can't be mentioned who has a couple of videos about a D-list UK celebrity, Kyle Kristie, who had 1,500 grafts removed by the Maitland Clinic and it's exceptional work with no visible scarring. And 1,500 is a lot to remove!

I guess if the electrolysis doesn't get you to 100% where you want to be, a small number of FUE removals could be used to finish things off...?

Yes it is looking alot better. 

I had some talks with some great Drs who recommended to not punch out every single graft because of the risk of scarring. Another thing was that to punch out these grafts, because it is so many, you need to punch them out in 1 session and then wait for 12 months, then have your final repair surgery. 

My skin is pretty prone to scarring and this is very individual, I have seen cases with Dr Feriduni punching out 2000 grafts in the front rows from a bad hair transplant with almost no scarring, but I dont think it would be like that in my case which made me opt to remove most with Electrolysis blend method.

It is exactly my thought, to remove most of the bad grafts so my repair will be easier to do, the fine tuning and detail will be done in the surgery itself.

6 hours ago, NARMAK said:

I do think it's always interesting when you do get a professional review and they call it as it is. 

Hopefully you found the right person to set this right and i do think it's ridiculous that even if you use a highly tech driven procedure as most seem to do that they could mess up that poorly under what seemed to be a competently regarded Doctor. 

I think this case is just one of many that underscores why unless we somehow end up with a drastically greater supply of doctors and techs or a much more perfected robotic system, we are going to keep seeing more guys end up in these horrible situations. 

I think prices are for the reliable doctors generally gonna keep increasing too which won't help how many more vulnerable people end up in Hair Mills. 

Thankfully people sharing their story like you shows there's doctors out there who are also at least willing to call the poor work of peers out privately. 

Yes I hope I will be done for some time with my next procedure.

What is even more difficult to understand is that I made this thread a month before I had my surgery, I linked it to the clinic, told them I will do a very detailed review of your clinic.

I guess the coordinator maybe did not care to tell the Dr this maybe as he left the clinic just weeks after my surgery, or they did not think I would follow through with the review, otherwise they should have put extra care to it. If they did a near perfect work on me it would probably got them fully booked for months consider the interest in this thread. 

I agree, the Drs who do consistent work and 1 patient a day will be in high demand. 

As a Dr who is performing 2-3 surgeries per week and 1 patient a day told me, about the tech driven clinics doing multiple patients 5-7 days a week, "they will be the richest in the cemetery". 😁