Fox243

36 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Weren’t they deleting threads about Verteporfin? Or was it just links to this thread.

I think they don't like threads to external websites. Personally, I think links to other websites that are hair-related and don't scam the consumer are fine, but it's their choice I guess.

This has caught attention on reddit too now haha: 

7 minutes ago, ClarkKent77 said:

Two questions: 

1) Does this have to involve a transplant? Could it be used for a diffuse thinner to "heal" (and thicken) hair that has minaturised? 

2) What is the next step? Usually with treatments that might work, we are waiting on an upcoming trial or test or results or something. What are we waiting on here? 

We are waiting on people to spread verteporfin to their doctors to either contact Melvin or me (gargnim01@gmail.com) to help them onboard. Here is an onboarding doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s3JkF9woMIebkXbpE_UxrjBfNy9i7AuBclDqn9HGrAo/edit

5 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

@Fox243 do you know if there is existing FUE scars revision planned ? And what do you think about such possibility ?

Also wanted to thank you for the efforts.

Not that I know of. Honestly, I'm not sure if a scar revision would work. The literature doesn't share any info about its possibility or lack thereof. For now, we need to at least prove it works on virgin skin before expanding to other things.

29 minutes ago, Square1 said:

Well, if wounding + verteporfin does produce full or even partial regrowth, why not do it once with a $200,- price tag and do it again in 10 years (or whenever the non-DHT resistant hairs start to miniturize again)?

You probably need to produce controlled wounds on the level of an FUE -- so there's a cost to that. We don't know what kind of skin the wounding will produce -- will it produce skin with the follicles already having been damaged by DHT? Probably not, but we just don't know and it's more important to first establish vert works the way it's meant to, and not introduce additional variables that may fail and dampen hopes.

2 minutes ago, takuma said:

No, but that would be a very easy trial to do, you could separate the treatment area into three regions, one where verteporfin is injected directly without any prior wounding, one where the area is lightly wounded first such as thru microneedling and one where there is a deeper fue puncture being made followed by a verteporfin injection, to see if the wound needs to be deep or if it doesn't need to be so for verteporfin to work.. I think that would tick all the boxes for a recipient site trial

the former two shouldn't be wasted with a doctor imho. any individual who cares enough about those can try it themselves. i would try it but i'm not interested in recipient site wounding anyways because those hairs are likely not dht resistant.

25 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Is this a German company? Will they ship to South America?

fwiw, Dr. Pittella said he's fine with using generic verteporfin. I had sent his nurse links to medchemexpress and selleck, which have facilities in Brazil. Unfortunately, he doesn't have an international import license, so I'm not sure if he can ship from Germany to South America.

28 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

Does Dr. Barghouthi use visudyne ? Is it easier to source in Jordan ?

No, he uses verteporfin

Just now, general-etwan said:

I just meant in the case of which most or all of the beard hair would be moved to the scalp donor area. Massacre as in get rid of all your facial hair. I just wouldn't want to ever do that personally. A little stubble and facial hair can make a man look good sometimes.

Ah I guess I'm referring more to under the chin as opposed to on the face. And yeah, wouldn't want all of it to be moved -- but would be fine with a thinner beard look.

On 11/5/2023 at 9:06 PM, general-etwan said:

I understand the math of this, and I don't know for sure about Stewie, but I am not personally a fan of taking beard grafts and putting them in the donor. I think his donor is pretty universally thinned and so it's not a problematic look from a distance at all really. Why massacre the face to put thick grafts on the back and sides of the head? That would just make the back and sides more dense than the top, which is counterproductive to the redistribution goals of a hair transplant.

Why do you think taking out beard graft "massacres" the face? I heard the scarring from removing beard grafts is close to nothing. I, for one, am hoping for my HT clinic to abuse my beard bc all that matter to me is the hair on the top of my head, but I want to understand why my view might be incorrect.

22 minutes ago, TV_on_LazerDisk said:

Yeah getting a bottle lab tested might be a good idea

 

If its indian generic pharma though it should be legit

I just had another doctor in Europe reach out to me about verteporfin. I will keep his name anonymous until he wishes to make it public. However, he also needs help with sourcing. Does anybody else have any ideas about places to source from? ideally we'd source visudyne, but if not, verteporfin from a very trusted place is fine as well.

21 minutes ago, Square1 said:

Good to hear, I too thought that there was one way to get the stuff: for $2000 from just one German manufacturer. Didn't know there were generics.

I am not aware at all in the medical field, but is medchemexpress.com a reliable site? It soundsrather shaky

 

 

 

Selleck and medchemexpress are pretty reputable. 

42 minutes ago, sansi said:

Wow Thank you ! Do you think it is as safe and effective as visidyne ?

Yes, visudyne is just the name brand, just as Propecia is the name brand for finasteride.

30 minutes ago, sansi said:

Thank you. Maybe you should add and emphasize also Maschrak and Talbott papers. They provide very good details about Red Duroc Pig and human Xenograft skin trials.

Also does vert cost $200 ? Isn't it like $1800 ?

Yeah, I added it to the links section but honestly it's going to be hard to have someone read a 300 page doc

28 minutes ago, sansi said:

Thank you. Maybe you should add and emphasize also Maschrak and Talbott papers. They provide very good details about Red Duroc Pig and human Xenograft skin trials.

Also does vert cost $200 ? Isn't it like $1800 ?

It's $1800 for visudyne, but vert itself is quite cheap: https://www.medchemexpress.com/Verteporfin.html

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I shared this with @Dr.Ratchathorn Panchaprate she has a background in clinical research and has several published peer-reviewed articles. 

Amazing, thank you! Will put in the bloxham 3 month update into the doc when he shares it as well.

4 hours ago, Square1 said:

Looks awesome!

Maybe a slight addition could be made with regards to the sourcing and the pricing of verteporfin? Docs could then have an idea how much a trial would cost them and what they would have to do actually get it.

The issue is that the sourcing and pricing really depends on the region, but I gave an estimate on pricing.

It's kinda crazy that this is now the most viewed and most replied on thread on the site. Hopefully the "wisdom of the crowd" will take us somewhere!

16 minutes ago, tatasabaya said:

Nice work, can you protect the document from unwanted edits?

Yes, only I can edit -- others can suggest

3 hours ago, Fox243 said:

I have a verteporfin packet. Let me finish updating it over the next few days and then people can reach out.

The doc is close to ready. I will share it here and people can help make edits: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s3JkF9woMIebkXbpE_UxrjBfNy9i7AuBclDqn9HGrAo/edit?usp=sharing

1 hour ago, Square1 said:

The last thing we want is that docs refuse to do more work, because they felt being bugged the first time. So yeah, I agree. The guy is pretty enthousiastic so he will likely share his findings anyway, sooner or later.

Have been in contact with a Dutch-Turkish clinic that politely turned the offer of participation down. Unfortunately, the claim of regrowing the donor area after a transplant was also made by others including dr. Coen Gho. Many people familiar with the matter know that this is nonsense, so if you make similar claims, you are faced with resistance right off the bat. 

If 1 could get 1 clinic to participate, that would already be great.

 

I have a verteporfin packet. Let me finish updating it over the next few days and then people can reach out.

I think I'll wait another week before asking him b/c I don't want to annoy him, but will provide the update here if I am allowed to.

54 minutes ago, sansi said:

@Fox243 do you have contact with Dr. Bloxham ?
By the end of this week it will be 4 months since the trial, linear scar healing can potentially engage much broader audience of plastic surgeons.
 

I do have some contact with Dr. Bloxham, but I want to give him time to share his updates. Making an hour long video as he did for the last one takes days of effort and he's juggling that with his day practice. But anyways, I have no more information than the public does at this current stage.

1 hour ago, sansi said:

Agree, this shouldn't be burden only on two doctors. But Dr. Barghouthi has two trials planned, and hopefully he will find the best dosage, as he mentioned 0.4 is not too far from it.

Anyone reached out to Gary Linkov ? He is HT and plastic surgeon and has a big audience from both sides. Actually reaching out also plastic surgeons may speed up the things .

One is not a trial fwiw – it’s just a patient who wants to use vert for his normal procedure, as I think all patients should be doing now

30 minutes ago, sansi said:

Wow Sounds Good !  I reached out few doctors in Europe, but they still seem to be hesitant. Hopefully that will change soon. Anyways I will wait until they find the best dosage.

I think Dr. Barghouthi will be also pioneer here offering Verteporfin as part of the surgery. Do you have any information on his plans ?

Also would one vial be enough for a full FUE ?

I mean the issue here is "waiting" until they find the best dosage. Who is "they"? Dr. Barghouthi and Dr. Bloxham? It might take years for them to find the best protocol on their own. Who knows if they will even do trials after this, as they've already paid so much out of pocket that we shouldn't expect them to do anything else?

We need more doctors to try, as part of a global trial. Rather than reaching out to doctors asking them to try verteporfin, I think its more important to emphasize that you will only get a HT with verteporfin. If they see enough patients only willing to get transplants with verteporfin, then they will understand the demand will only be there for doctors who offer verteporfin trials.

54 minutes ago, sansi said:

When do you think guy this can be a part of a surgery ? Is one year from now too optimistic ?
I hope Dr. Barghouthi will try also old FUE scars, Dr. Bloxhams trial seems to work the same way for older scars and fresh wounds.

I mean people can go for surgery whenever they want. I personally think we're very close to the ideal dosage based on the literature (and based on the 0.4 mg/cm^2 results by barghouthi). In terms of when this will be widely accepted and 95% there, it really depends how much people spread the word to their doctors. If someone is able to convince their doctor, I can help their doctor onboard, as melvin and I are currently doing for Dr. Pittella. Honestly though, I wouldn't be getting a HT before we see further testing of verteporfin and the only way to expedite that it is for people to spread the word.