Fox243

2 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

No it isn’t, but if it’s sent out on the YouTube channel my fear is that a troll will try and mess it up. I guess its a risk well have to take 

I only allow others to comment and only I have the ability to actually implement their comments

44 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

@Fox243 is the google doc locked? Let’s share it again so more people can spread the word.

It shouldn’t be locked, is it? 

13 hours ago, Hypogastric said:

What about med chem express - I don’t know if they have been mentioned before but they are very reliable - my university lab has used them for other pharmaceuticals before. They are pretty reliable and their verteporforin has been used in research before and been published in papers(for optical macular degradation  ).

 

also they ship pretty much anywhere.

https://www.medchemexpress.com/Verteporfin.html

Unfortunately, I reached out again and it seems like he is no longer interested because he thinks running a trial in this fashion is too risky. 

18 minutes ago, Hypogastric said:

Ahh that’s a shame. Anyways in which we could help?
is his trial still onboard / being planned or is it scrapped due to verteprofin sourcing problems.

If you could find reliable providers to source to him, that would be the greatest help. 

1 minute ago, Hypogastric said:

@Melvin- Admin @Fox243or anyone else for that matter - do you guys have any idea when pitella is planning a trial - any luck on getting verteporforin sourced to him - he’d be a very good surgeon to get onboard due to his fantastic high Norwood cases and repair surgeries. 
 

It’s quite hard to source Verteporfin in brazil so been having trouble there. 

3 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I got back from Dr. Mohebi’s. It went well, showed him the Google doc made by @Fox243 he’s agreed to do the trial. He’s very scientific, he has a background in scar research from John Hopkins. I’ve agreed to film every update. Very excited boys 🙏 it was worth the holiday traffic.

🐐 

31 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

Definitely interested in seeing if it's possible for the folks at Eugenix to use this if I have my 3rd procedure there in the coming months. Considering that there don't seem to be any negative side effects at all, I would more than willing be happy to sign a formal waiver saying "I fully understand that use of verteporfin after extraction is no guarantee of benefit, and any damage done to the results are the full responsibility and understanding of the patient." Because I fully understand that a lot of clinics and doctors simply aren't going to feel comfortable using something they don't have a lot of tangible experience or trust with; at least not right away.

You should reach out to them. I’m happy to onboard them.

1 hour ago, Jonathan said:

Melvin you say this because you used like 99% of your donor hair lol

Hey, I wouldn't say that. Melvin has been so helpful to our efforts and I'm gracious for all the work he's done so far.

6 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I think that’s extreme at this point. There’s not enough data yet. Hair transplants are tried and tested.

I don’t think it’s extreme personally. We know that Verteporfin isn’t harmful and does something – maybe not full regeneration, but at least less scarring and partial regeneration. 
 

None of the literature demonstrates Verteporfin can heal old scars so imagine you get a HT without Verteporfin. Then it’s possible you ruin your only chance at hair regeneration and are forced to take meds and have a conservative look for the rest of your life when if you wait for Verteporfin, there’s a chance you could be nw1 without any meds

11 minutes ago, sansi said:

Is it 80 mg (200x0.4) ? How to calculate ?

Dr. Bloxham's 15mg vial was enough for 3 patients.

It’s not 80 mg because we don’t take FUE extractions from every cm^2. It’s also a FUE so probably requires more than an FUT. I had based the initial 10 mg figure on Dr. Bloxham’s trial. Probably ordering like 50 mg or something to be safe. It’s not that expensive so better to order more than less. 

3 hours ago, sansi said:

@Fox243 can you explain calculation ?
How is 10mg enough for 200 cm2 ?

Yikes, you're right. I didn't do the math properly.

5 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

How legit is this site? I don’t think we want to do trials on something that could potentially be underdosed or fake. 

So yeah it’s tough – these are all research chemical sites (After doing more research, I’d actually recommend using this one: https://www.targetmol.com/compound/Verteporfin – it was used by someone else in another group I am). Ideally, we’d get either brand name visudyne from Bausch or Verteporfin from a compounding pharmacy. But otherwise, these sites are usually pretty good when their purity is high.

14 minutes ago, general-etwan said:

How much would I need if I wanted to try it myself at home with microneedling? This may be cheap compared to the name brand but this is still very expensive stuff.

I don't think it'd work with microneedling tbh -- it probably needs to be injected after an excision b/c of its molecular weight. There's another GB going on for a new compound (GNE-7883) that could work with microneedling. Either way, if you still wanted to try with verteporfin, I'd actually buy from here: https://www.targetmol.com/compound/Verteporfin (better purity and has been tested by an individual in a group I am in) and 10 mg should be enough if you assume 0.4 mg/cm^2 and a 200 cm^2 wounding area. 

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

BIG UPDATE:

I'm on the phone with Bausch + Lomb, the makers of Visudyne. 

I'm trying to get a bottle sent to Dr. Mohebi; he is interested in doing a trial now. I will also contact AmerisourceBergen to try and get this sourced to Dr. Pittella.

omfg ur the man

5 minutes ago, takuma said:

Okay, that seems like a big difference between the four months post pics that i quoted, maybe it was a shed, or maybe it's the different magnifcation. I'm a little confused now

Honestly, I'm not sure though. I still am optimistic about the future. Of course, I wish I were seeing faster results, but even for HTs, the results only start becoming apparent at 6 months.

26 minutes ago, takuma said:

Wow! guys i went back and looked at the around four months mark in Dr Bargouthi's study and you can clearly see the white blotches, where there is little to no hair in the verteporfin treated regions, but now compare that to the latest photos, those white bloches are gone and their is hair everywhere..i dont see any white blotches in the verteporfin treated 0.4 area at all.. Also, this could indicate that Dr Bloxham's trials is following a similar progression, Dr Bargouthi did not see a ton of new hairs in the extracted areas at the 4 month mark i believe, so Dr Bloxham seeing even a couple hairs growing directly out of the wound is a good indication that it's working and we will see more new growth as time goes further and also the patient where Dr Bloxham said he's not seeing much difference between the control and the test at 3 month mark may have shed some of the new hairs and they may grow back soon.

 

Has anyone else made a similar observation.

 

is it though? i feel like dr barghouthi's 4 month looks pretty decent too?

4 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

In pigs it was higher concentrations that showed bad results if I am not mistaken. Maybe in high concentration it's very dense to be absorbed, but in high dosage (more verteporfin with same concentration) there wouldn't be this issue.

But it seems 0.4 ml dosage and 2 mg/ml concentration are close to sweet spot. Just few trials and errors  and we are there.

Concentration and dosage are basically equivalent. Density shouldn't really matter. All that matters is concentration times dosage which is equal to amount injected.

2 minutes ago, -TheHairUpThere- said:

So this first trial essentially showed that maybe more vert=better results?

Because the 0.26 injection looks like it had zero impact on the healing process. The 0.4 definitely looks better. Although hard to tell just how much regrowth there was. But seems that 0.4 should be treated as the new standard. And maybe they could now start experimenting with doses of .5 and up. If more vert caused better healing then maybe it's possible it will also lead to more regrowth. Think it's just about finding the sweet spot at this point.

Even if this only results in zero scarring that's also a victory in itself. But let's be real. We're all hoping for that unlimited donor😂

 

It's quite strange ngl. We're already above the ideal dosing for pigs and the vert study showed that higher dosages are not as good once ur at the ideal dose. I guess there's some difference in humans and pigs, but I wouldn't expect it to be large.

6 minutes ago, sansi said:

Doctor Barghouthi mentioned once that scars usually get smaller. So if you made 0.9mm wound the scar will be 0.7-0.8mm. Scars also are not as deep as wounds, so maybe not going deep will produce better healing. On the other hand if you don't go deep enough and some scar tissue remains, it may block hair regrowth.

Stanford doctors were confident that if you revise old scars, the mechanism of healing would be the same, so if verteporfin can completely heal skin when being injected on fresh wound, it can heal also previously scarred skin.  But there are variables that need to be tested, that's why we also need FUE scars revision trials.

Can you show me the citation where they were confident of the revision of old scars? I don’t remember reading that tbh. 

7 minutes ago, Hairgain said:

Here's a thought I had related to this and it involves hair parts. To make hair parts less noticeable, it there potential to wound skin in the area, inject verteporfin and have it regrow with more hair to cover these areas which appear thin and scalp is see through? It sounds to me like the possibilities are becoming enormous regarding what this drug can do. The problem is the expense and limited number of medical professionals willing to do experiments with it.  

The skin there didn't initially even have hair though, so I don't think it would reproduce hair. Also, this drug isn't that expensive -- off-label is probably 1k a patient or so.

27 minutes ago, alopeciaphobia said:

For all we know, maybe you can use an FUE punch to excise existing scars, inject them with verteporfin, and get the donor back?

Maybe but there’s definitely a lower probability of that working, so why take the risk rather than ask for Verteporfin and pay an extra $1k.

Honestly, I do feel quite bad for people who are still getting transplants after seeing vert's results. Imagine possibly ruining your chances for unlimited donor hair. I would instantly cancel or at the very least tell my doctor I'm not getting a transplant without vert. But everyone has their own choice.

1 hour ago, SouthernYankee said:

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/profile/32181-drtbarghouthi/ I am incredibly grateful and fortunate to have selected him as my surgeon, as he has exceeded my expectations. The inclusion of verteporfin in the procedure is simply an added bonus. Throughout my personal experience with him, we have had two comprehensive meetings over Zoom, as well as countless informative email exchanges with him and his team. He patiently and thoroughly addressed all of my questions, as well as those from my wife, regarding the anticipated outcomes. His honesty and ability to set realistic expectations to achieve a natural appearance were greatly appreciated. Additionally, he demonstrated forward-thinking by considering potential future hair loss and how it would affect the overall result. I am eagerly awaiting the surgery scheduled for December 16th.

He's an amazing, caring doctor. I'm glad to have met him.

1 hour ago, SouthernYankee said:

Yes I believe so but will confirm and let you know

Oh dang that's huge. You can just ask Dr. Barghouthi if you want to use verteporfin and I'm sure he'd say yes. Honestly, i don't think anyone should be getting a HT without vert at this point -- we at least are confident that it won't hurt and most likely helps a lot.

3 minutes ago, bigmistake said:

https://www.apollopharmacy.in/salt/VERTEPORFIN

These guys are a multi billion dollar hospital and pharmacy chain in India.

Unfortunately, they only seem to service in India.