Fox243

Just as an update, I lost my job a few days ago so I will not be doing anything Verteporfin related for the next few weeks at least. Just wanted to give the update for transparency.

Agreed, I think he should be on list. Quick question, did he ask to be recommended on the forum?

49 minutes ago, Gatchpt said:

Does Bloxham know that I think about him more than I think about my wife. 

Underrated comment

Have you seen much help with the medications or nothing much?

9 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Thread moved to “hair loss drugs” section. 

My main concern is people may not realize it’s been moved and therefore not be able to find the thread. Perhaps we put out an announcement it’s been moved? 

7 hours ago, sansi said:

@Fox243 thank you for your efforts, you deserve a lot of credit alongside with Dr Bs.

What do you think of this result ?
https://www.realself.com/review/scarless-after-verteporfin-injected-scar-revision

Thanks – anyways, I don’t care about the credit which is why I stay anon. I just hope that more of the community can help take actionable steps so we can get our hair back. People like Melvin and me only have so much time. 

I think the result is interesting, but not something I give much credibility to just because there’s too many uncontrolled variables. 

10 hours ago, Dragonsphere said:

Do you think 0.4 is the optimal dose? Is it possible that higher doses could have an inverse effect similar to LLT? 

I think 0.4 is close to the optimal dose. Yes, as shown in the mice and pig study, higher doses could cause detrimental effects. It's likely not because we are inhibiting YAP too much, rather verteporfin itself has some negative off-target effects that likely outweigh the YAP inhibition at higher doses. Ideally, if we had a purer YAP inhibitor, we'd get better results.

14 minutes ago, Gatchpt said:

There are 2 obstacles for adoption by Drs:

1. High risk - can only be mitigated by solid proof vert work . And The word theorize is the main problem here, none of us are scientists and most of us Cant comprehend a scientific paper. best we can do is read the abstract and the results sections or at least me.

2. Credible and reliable Vert supply - I proposed you and your DAO folks find a way to either produce it , or buy it as powder/compound it , partner with a Chinese supplier and white label it … you disregarded the idea. i dont know what you can do but if you fix the supply issue at least we can tell Dr lsn not only you have my full consent if things goes wrong (removing the risk) but I know how you can source the thing,  All we need from you is your skills to do the FUE/FUT  and follow the documentation/dose

I think "most of us Cant comprehend a scientific paper. best we can do is read the abstract and the results sections or at least me." is an excuse tbh. I'm the one who worked out the doses to try out from extrapolating from mice studies, despite having taken 0 courses in biology. It all depends on one's self drive to learn and solve your own problems, rather than relying on someone else. These doctors are already so busy with their day practice and even coordinating the whole verteporfin trial that they may not be able to become experts in the science, but that's where we can help.

Regarding the credible and reliable vert supply, that is something the community can be doing. I, for example, emailed around 150 pharmacies in the US and am in talks of getting one to be reliable, but it may fail. I don't see why other can't do what I am doing.

44 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

Guess at the coming months we can't expect much from Dr. Barghouthi except from new trial announcement.

Meanwhile Dr. Bloxham will hit 6 months in 10 days, enough to tell if vert worked or not. Hope @Fox243 and other guys who have contact with him will be able to reach out.

I will contact him at the 6 month mark and share what I am able.

1 hour ago, Gatchpt said:

You know that mass emailing Drs at this stage is useless because they will all want to wait until they see tangible results. That’s why everyone is waiting for the 2 Dr.Bs to share results and expedite trials because once at least one of the them (especially FUT trial) show success then most dermatologists and Ht surgeons will jump on board because that’s mean money for them and means we don’t need to beg them to read a 20 page document if they have the time. Oh believe me if they see results they will have the time! So let the man vent and complain ! We at least deserve that after all this wait. 

If you don’t think mass emailing doctors will be useful, at least volunteer to help with coming up with new ideas and such to increase regeneration. Read through papers to help theorize optimal doses, injection techniques, etc. There’s so many variables to tinker with to learn about instead of complaining. 

And there is data – very detailed FUE data in fact with biopsy counts and good quality pictures. 

10 minutes ago, Jonathan said:

If only someone would’ve predicted these trials to constantly be pushed back, and for there to be a difference with Verteporfin on FUE and FUT….. 😂😂

Rather than complain, can you instead do productive things like mass emailing other docs to try out verteporfin? the only person with a right to complain is arcturus who put in 14.5k or the few members of the community who have done dozens of hours of research like melvin or me who wrote the 20 page vert doc. 

1 hour ago, Nikoni said:

@Fox243 btw, have both doctors got their trichoscan devices ?
There's a chance Dr. Bloxham is waiting the device for better assessment.

Yes, both doctors have just received their trichoscan devices, and are waiting till mid Jan before they can talk to the company about how to use it.

10 minutes ago, Fox243 said:

It could also be not promising and prevent people from trying it out.

Personally, after seeing his 3 month results, I was a bit disappointed, especially compared to Dr. Barghouthi's 3 month results, so I'm not expecting much. Not sure what went wrong, be it that it was an FUT or the procedure in some other way, but I'm more excited for Dr. Barghouthi's upcoming trial.

1 minute ago, Nikoni said:

Thank you. Last update by Dr. Barghouthi increased interest and awareness by a lot. A promising update by Dr. Bloxham will be a huge step in that direction and make as much closer to global acceptance of verteporfin.

It could also be not promising and prevent people from trying it out.

1 hour ago, Nikoni said:

hi @Fox243, can you ask from Dr. Bloxham at least when to expect the updates ?
This one is taking  really long.

I’ll ask him at the 6 month mark so in two weeks. 

6 minutes ago, Hair Tomorrow said:

I emailed all the co-authors of this study, finding that IN MICE, after wounding, YAP is activated on Day 2 and Day 7, asking if it is known what days after wounding in humans YAP is activated...

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022202X15366033

One of the study authors, Han Sung, replying, having done no such test on humans, but expecting YAP expression to take place within the first 2-3 days after wounding.

Has anyone heard any discussions about what days after wounding YAP is expressed in humans, and whether keeping Verteporfin around at the cite of the wounds for longer, by for instance, the use of slow release nanoparticles, or a slow release hydrogel dressing, would be beneficial or not for improved regeneration in FUE extraction sites, as has been seen in animal studies?

If you were designing a slow release delivery system for Verteporfin, how many days would you keep it around the wound for?

 

It would be interesting to examine but ultimately, the pig study only uses it once and we first need to prove that verteporfin works well for a one time use before thinking about how to optimize it.

17 hours ago, Nikoni said:

@Fox243 you the only one among us with some contact with Dr. Bloxham.

I know you don't want to bug him, but we are past 5 months now and it should be evident which direction the trial took.

Please ask for some initial assessment and the Doctor's opinion without photos or anything.

Because it’s his trial, I would rather wait till he feels comfortable sharing whatever he wants publicly. 
 

I have been getting lots of DMs about vert and it’s been a bit overwhelming so I am going to be off the site for a few weeks. I will return after the holidays.

4 minutes ago, Hair Tomorrow said:

And here is another 2023 study I just paid $15 to read, for another kind of nanoparticle suspension slowly releasing Verteporfin at the site of the wound for over at least 7 days, improving Verteporfin's effect at regrowing skin and hair (although not by much over Verteporfin alone - the previous different nanoparticle studies I linked earlier in this thread had more impressive results).

I am wondering if research teams focusing on slow release nanoparticles are going to be biassed, insisting Verteporfin alone isn't sufficient, or is more toxic, when it really might be fine as is - perhaps these research teams are globing on to Verteporfin's success, attempting to keep their nanoparticles relevant and part of the mix.  

 

 

 

Bro you don’t need to pay money to read these articles. All students get these articles for free. Better for you to donate this money to trials.

2 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Btw do you have Longakers protocol? Some users are asking for it, to give their surgeons.

 

kinda... I have it for pigs, which may not apply for humans. Here it is:

All animal work was conducted in accordance with APLAC protocol 33742. Full-thickness excisional wounds (2cm x 5cm) were produced on the dorsal skin of 12-week-old red Duroc pigs.

Wounds were excised in an elongated hexagon shape such that tension was comparable across their length. PBS (control; 4-6 wounds/pig) and verteporfin (2-8 mg/mL in PBS; 4-6 wounds/pig) were then injected into wounds. Nine injections (100 μL each) were performed per wound: three into the exposed dermis of the left side of the wound; three into the right side of the wound; and three into the base of the wound. Control and treatment wound sites were randomly assigned along the medial/lateral and cranial/caudal aspects to avoid confounding anatomic factors. Given the observed effect size in our first experimental pig and a power analysis, nine wounds per treatment group was deemed sufficient to adequately assess statistical significance.

Wounds were primarily repaired with 3-0 Vicryl deep dermal sutures, 3-0 Monocryl running subcuticular sutures, and surgical tape (Steri-Strips). Adhesive wound dressings (Primapore) were applied and changed every 2-3 days for two weeks, then weekly until wounds were fully healed. Wounds were photographed weekly for later scoring on scar visual analog scale (VAS). Cutometer measurements were taken to measure stiffness of normal skin and scars at 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16-weeks post-wounding. Animals were euthanized at 16 weeks post-wounding, and wound tissue divided for analyses as described below.

I also have dr. barghouthi's and dr. bloxham's protocols, but I'm not sure if they would like it shared on the web, so if anybody has a surgeon who has actually shown interest, I can DM it to them. Just let me know.

8 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Have any of you guys seen this?

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mabi.202300165

I had but forgot to add it to the literature in the vert doc. Just added now.

2 hours ago, Nikoni said:

Seems new trials are on the way, this is good.

@Fox243 Dr Barghouthi and Dr Mohebi will have new trials. I think that will be enough evidence already for Standard FUE. IMO it's better to direct efforts towards more scenarios that hasn't been tested. Like injuring recipient and injecting verteporfin, Revising old FUE scars.

Also there are big pockets with hair loss or unsuccessful HT, with enough evidence they will back up more trials, worth to contact them.

Yes, I think there will be enough evidence for standard FUE with plain verteporfin, which is why I want to test combining it with other compounds.

10 minutes ago, Gatchpt said:

The fact that no one understands what happened to the initial 15k already raised and how they were broken down to each of the cost elements of the trial makes it hard to raise some more imo.  Also the promised trail hasn’t been done yet and we are not sure vert works 100% let alone adding skin cancer drugs into the mix.

The 15k is being used for the trial. Trials and transplants are expensive. You don’t need a cost breakdown because 15k is so reasonable – at a high level imagine a graft is $5, Verteporfin itself costs $1k, and paying for a patients and doctors time for several follow up visits can easily reach 15k. 
 

The point to fund an additional trial is so we see if Verteporfin works alone in the first one and concurrently test out other safe drugs. Cancer drugs makes it sound worse than it is when these drugs are completely benign if you do research, as I have spending hours studying these. Why stifle the scientific progress being made if now is a time for innovation? 

Just thinking out loud here: I want to fund one more HT trial with dr barghouthi in which we test two extremely promising FDA compounds that should work in conjunction with veteporfin: imiquimod and vemurafenib, both of which have been fda approved for decades as well. I was thinking either we do a normal fundraiser for around $10k, or if 5 people are willing to each donate $2k, I can talk to Dr. Barghouthi and we can guarantee a priority HT with verteporfin whenever you want at the normal HT rate. If you truly believe in verteporfin, I think this could be a good deal as doctors who have practice with verteporfin will have years long wait lists and the price will significantly increase. Thoughts? Would anybody be willing to deposit 2k to Dr. Barghouthi for what I proposed -- if so, comment below.

5 hours ago, Square1 said:

Putting a product through trials costs much more than 3M right?

Anyway, thanks for your work in this regard. Gotta ask, what is the reason to work on another treatment and not go all-in on verteporfin?

 

Couple reasons:

1) hairdao is a business and hairdao unfortunately cannot make much money for Verteporfin. Because I am a core member, I was able to persuade the others it would be good for PR

2) some people don’t want to get a transplant done and hence topical thyroid could be better