_lshy

Thanks mate! Sadly I am only staying in Bangkok for a week but on the plus side I get the the weekend before the surgery to myself. Monday is a public holiday so I will try my best not to get COVID before my surgery 😅 I am in BKK for only 4 days post op (surgery on Tuesday, flight back on Sunday 8am). I am a little worried I am staying too short a time, I might need to get stitches removed back in Sydney (I think that's a thing?). Otherwise, I can't believe this is happening. It's very surreal, honestly. I wonder if Nana Plaza is open, I hear a lot of the centers are closed due to COVID restrictions.

I am booked with Dr Pathomvanich and my surgery is in 4 days! Flight is tomorrow! I am also very worried, but also excited. Both doctors are top quality and the thing you should focus on is what you want from your surgery. I got a makeup pencil and drew several hairlines over the course of a week, I wore hair systems and partial hair systems and tried to understand what I wanted to see from a HT. I normally wear a short hairstyle and after a lot of thinking I decided to go with FUT (strip surgery). Broadly, you can get the maximum number of grafts when combining FUT with FUE [1] - where you start off with FUT and once you have maximised the harvest available through scalp flexibility, you move to FUE to grab grafts from areas you otherwise wouldn't be able to access. I chose FUT because it tends to have a better graft survival rate [2] so you can achieve greater densities while minimising graft wastage. I have 7000ish grafts in my donor. With FUT I can successfully transplant maybe 5000 or 6000 with FUE it will be closer to 4000. In general, depending on age and other health factors, at densities of 40cm2, you can expect a graft survival rate of 80% [3]. The scar will be no wider than 2mm/3mm and if it's a problem, it can be almost entirely hidden with SMP or even a makeup pencil. I have thought a lot about if I would regret a linear scar, say in the case I decide to shave my hair entirely, and I would not regret it. As someone with a progressive hair loss condition, I don't have an expectation that I get to resolve it without any marks. Broadly, I don't care if people know I have had a hair transplant - I just want the best cosmetic result I can get. EDIT: I also expect to need another surgery in 1.5 years to touch up the hairline and achieve the final density. I feel it's unreasonable to expect a perfect hairline density from one surgery as you don't know where grafts will grow and how the layering will look. [1] https://fellermedical.com/fut-vs-fue/ [2] https://www.ishrs-htforum.org/content/26/4/160#p-14 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2956960/#sec2-6title

Just paid the deposit, need to take some blood tests for Hep-C and HIV which I have booked for tomorrow. That and so many PCR covid tests. I think by the time I return to Sydney I would have taken 4, maybe 5 PCR tests in the space of 8 days. T minus 9 days until my flight

Feeling nervous, excited and kind of in disbelief. After so many years, I can't believe this is happening. I've seen a few posts where people who have a similar starting point to me aren't too happy with the density of their results at 12 months (with Dr Path) but they have great looking hairline designs and that's nothing a follow up procedure in 18 months won't sort. I really want to be satisfied by the results of the first op as I only want my hairline done - but mentally prepared if it's sub par. Dr Path does not offer a guarantee on the procedure and informed me to expect a graft survival rate of at least 80% - but likely higher, depending on the person and procedure type. I'm thinking about getting the procedure done as FUT. I understand that graft survival can be higher, density can be better and there will be more donor hair for future operations with the strip method. Getting the Thai travel pass was a pretty wild ride. You have to book your flights, your hotel and COVID tests - then apply for the pass using the most janky website on Earth. If they decline the pass they don't say why - thankfully mine was approved. I'll post up a report on what my progress looks like - hopefully helping others on their journey.

I am going to go with Dr Pathomvanich, my flight is on the 4th of December - woo

Hey, how are things coming along?

How easy is it really for grafts to be damaged or to fall out after 3 to 5 days? I'll have my temporal points done as well so I am worried about the rim of a cap putting pressure on the grafts on the side of my head while I'm on the flight back. Can you fly with a head bandage instead?

I am planning on flying to Thailand (from Sydney) to do a surgery in December. I'm in the trip planning phase now. First HT and first time overseas by myself. If I do FUT, how long should I stay in Thailand before I should book my return flight? I was going to stay 7 days, but I feel that might be overkill.

Yeah but getting places is a bit cooked. I'm trying to fly to Thailand to see Dr Path. Lots of hoops to jump through and no direct flights. But I'll do it.

That's awesome. Clever tactic to get a skin fade before hand. Combined with not needing a haircut on top, the surgery would be impossible to detect after a month or two. I am also considering Dr. Laorwong and have been asking him about his practice, technique and what role he/his technicians play in the surgery. He tells me that he's involved in the entire process. He designs the transplant by pre-creating the graft sites. Dr. Laorwong controls the density, direction and angles, then he and his technicians place grafts into the recipient sites. He and his technicians will spec the grafts using a 10x microscope, sorting them into the single, double and multi counts. The technicians use a blunt implanter pen to place the grafts into the pre-created slits. I have asked him if he places the grafts along the hairline himself via tweezers or if both himself and the technicians use the implanter pens - I believe they all use blunt implanter pens. I have asked him about his strategy around hairline design, graft quality priority, and density management. Glad to hear that the grafts along the outermost 2 rows of the hairline are native singles, then a row of doubles and then multis further inland. If he runs out of native singles, he will dissect doubles into singles. He is happy to pack the hairline more densely with singles and doubles as they are slimmer, while further from the hairline he uses multis at a lower density to achieve fullness while simultaneously conserving grafts. I also love that his clinic includes a week of head washing as part of the package. Given how delicate an HT is in the first week, it brings a lot of peace of mind to know someone who does this all the time is looking over the recovery at its most critical phase is making sure it's all going alright. Overall I am very impressed with his skills, hairline design looks fantastic. He has fewer testimonials from people with European hair (at NW3 or less), but the cases I have seen are satisfying in their result and at $3.20 a graft that's incredible. As an Australian looking for my first HT and starting my journey looking at domestic surgeons, this clinic blows my mind

Thanks for adding your report. Dr. Laorwong seems like an excellent surgeon and the overall package is very compelling! How much is accomodation and how did you pick a place to stay? Just an AirBnB?

Aussie here, I can't believe the borders are open. I was losing hope 🤣 I am looking at traveling, preferably not too far, to get my first hair transplant. Looking at Dr Path and Dr Laorwong in Thailand right now (open to considering other places). I have a NW3-ish hairline. Dark hair, medium gauge, curly and high contrast. I have done consultations with both and they both said around 2000 to 2300 for the hairline itself. They both have lots of examples online and plenty of testimonials and I feel like both would do a great job. My question is, who do you think has better hairline artistry in cases like mine?

I'm considering Dr Path or Dr Laorwong in Thailand. Did online consultations with them and both say I need around 2000 grafts, give or take, as I am only doing a hairline restoration on a NW3 (ish). I'll surely post my results here! They both seems to do good work, who do you think does better hairline work (think medium gauge, medium curly, dark, greek hair)? Actually, i'll ask this in it's own thread

I am looking internationally for surgeons that aren't too far from Australia, any suggestions?

Yeah, sadly I am slowly coming to accept that reality. I honestly don't know that Dr Knudsen is explicitly bad and given his credentials it's probably unreasonable to believe that I would have a result I am unhappy with. At the end of the day the risk is high and the liability of a poor aesthetic result is on me. There are no government bodies protecting my hairline and I am not a hair surgeon to know what is or what isn't a good surgeon. The only tool at my disposal is verifying credentials and reading testimony. Short of that, it's all based on faith.

I'm currently on my search for a surgeon and as someone local to Australia, I thought it might be worthwhile looking into the local clinics here. Dr Knudsen receives a lot of criticism on this forum, justified or not I thought it fair to compile a list of his results aggregated from several sources. It might help people make up their minds in future. Please contribute your thoughts, discussion on the results would be appreciated and comparisons drawn with other similarly priced clinics internationally is welcome. In other threads I have noticed Australian clinics get hit with a lot of slander. A HT is spooky, unless you have a source to support it, there's no need for spooky words. He might not be as good as whoever did Machine Gun Kelly's hair, but if we are 90% the way there that's good enough to save the expense of a trip for some people. That might not be the case and that's fine, but at least let's keep things empirical. He charges around $7 USD per graft FUE which is high, but there is an at least 3k USD overhead for any Australian looking international which makes it uncompetitive for procedures under 2000 grafts (like me). https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rGZrelTxuO3Ag4ACRAVOiB6psLt9DAu_XODIJdyBmVw/edit?usp=sharing I may update this document with time which is why it's a google doc (forum posts become uneditable after a while)

I totally acknowledge that and that's why I haven't proceeded with Knudsen yet - but the point I was making is that it's a maybe and I want to make sure. So I am trying to do my due diligence before completely disregarding Knudsen or Vikram. I don't necessarily need Hollywood hair. If I am 80% the way to Machine Gun Kelly's hair, can spend less money and don't need to leave the country I feel like that's a compelling value proposition. And of course if that's a fantasy where the reality is I end up with double grafts in a poorly designed hairline, then yeah I guess it's off to NYC I go. I'm okay with that conclusion.

I'm not disagreeing with you but please understand that I am trying to be sure by understanding why people are advising against Dr Knudsen. I am trying to be rational and empirical with a topic that is highly subjective and invokes a passionate and intense response. I have read posts that have literally called Dr Knudsen a "bad doctor" digging into it further, it appears there is no basis. Reading things like "you will have doubles in your hairline" and "you will need to look at yourself in the mirror every day" might be true, but tell me why you make that accusation. This whole procedure invokes a lot of anxiety and I come to this forum for guidance in a field where the liability is on me. Spooky statements don't help. If I have to go overseas, that's fine but it's not without its own set of cons. I agree, $7.50 USD per graft is not cheap - but for a procedure like mine, where I probably need 1500 grafts, that's $11,250 USD. If I go to Dr Blake Loxham or Hassan and Wong, I am looking at $10 a graft + a flight + accomodation. I would be looking at close to double my initial cost. Erdogan or similar Turkish clinics are around $3USD per graft but for me it would be around the same price. The advantage is maybe they have better results. The disadvantage is I can't just catch the train to get a touch up done in 12 months. If you are truly passionate about protecting people from Australian clinics, please expand on this. Can you reach out to these people and have them engage in these discussions. It would be better than boycotting Australian clinics because you'd be holding them accountable for their poor workmanship. At the moment, the issue I see is that there isn't enough data to know if Australian clinics are good and the safe choice is to go to a clinic with lots of testimony. With your connections you can make a real different by providing some visibility into the Australian market. Rather than people just saying "yeah I heard they were bad" you can point to why they are bad and people like me, looking for a surgeon, can be given more than spooky words. They are far more inexpensive and scar free Knudsen offered both FUT or FUE, saying the results were the same only the price was different. He didn't have a preference either way. Dr Vikram specialises in FUE and was trained under Dr Knudsen. Call with Dr Vikram For what it's worth, I spoke to Dr Vikram on the phone and asked what his thoughts are on the comments on these forums and how I make a decision when faced with the above. Firstly he endorses Dr Knudsen's skills. Secondly he believes that testimony through images is not really the best metric to use when assessing a surgeon - particularly if it's the only metric used. He cites that Dr Knudsen has been operating for 25+ years, taught him over the last 10 years and has given lectures on topics like natural hairline design. He believes the notion that I would end up with doubles in the hairline is simply not true. I'm really not closer to a decision at this point

Sorry for the spam, just digging up cases to assess the results from Dr Knudsen to help with the assessment. I am trying to be fair and balanced because there is a strong pull here to completely discount his clinic and I respect that and might end up going with someone in north america instead but I want to be sure that it's worth the trouble (consider it will be more than double the cost to fly to NA and get work done). 3000 grafts to hairline (video) 600 grafts to hairline (video) Unclear how many grafts were used here and what the procedure was. He mentions the ARTAS robot though 1200 grafts via ARTAS 800 grafts via ARTAS 1547 grafts Larger size of the original image in the OP 651 grafts 1325 Grafts

This really is great, it's not by Dr Knudsen himself but work done by his clinic by Dr V. https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/57907-fut-performed-by-dr-vikram-jayaprakash-at-the-knudsen-clinic-my-hair-loss-journey/page/2/

I'm in the same boat as you were in the beginning. I am considering Dr Knudsen in Sydney, he quoted 1000 grafts and everyone is telling me to go overseas and drop Australia. Their website has almost no good photos so it's so hard to know what to expect. By any chance, do you know how similar the results Dr V produces are to Dr Knudsen?

Yeah this blows my mind. He was the president of the ISHRS for a year, he received awards, is recommended by Dr Rassman and has apparently personally conducted over 5000 surgeries - but the photos on his site are very low quality, there are very few case reports and it's extremely difficult to understand the results they attained due to the angle and resolution of the photos. I asked him about why he had so few images on his website during our consultation and he said that clients had to consent to showing their results online otherwise he couldn't publish the results. He also went on to tell me that the results on his website were not his best results as he preferred to ensure that he maintained realistic expectations in his clients - specifically he said that he liked to under promise and over deliver. Man, it really sucks that this is the case, you're probably right. The sad thing is that Dr Knudsen might be a good surgeon and do great work, but his website and cases are just not numerous or detailed enough to give me confidence in that.

I'm back at it again, had a second consultation with Dr Knudsen. I am once again considering going ahead with it, but again it's hard for me to really commit due to the lack of cases. He has updated his website with new before and after photos. I was quoted the same graft count of ~1000 grafts +-200. I also asked to have my temporal points re-enforced which he thinks would be an additional 100-200 grafts. He offered either FUE or FUT, saying it didn't matter which one I chose. I found this case online which doesn't look bad: https://www.realself.com/review/brisbane-au-36-year-male-hair-transplant Also his page on the ISHRS is here: https://ishrs.org/doctor/36959/ This results in the attached image don't look bad after 1118 grafts - thought it's hard to gauge given the low quality photo. Are there any new reviews from Dr Knudsen?

After speaking directly to Dr Knudsen and expressing that I understood I was in the wrong for not being more vigilant around the terms of the agreement but that at least a partial refund of the deposit would be greatly appreciated. Dr Knudsen decided he would refund my deposit in full. Which, considering the fact that he was under no legal obligation to and the nature of cosmetic clinics in Australia, is amazing. In the interim I am going to try out hair pieces while I wait for the borders to re-open. At the cost of a higher maintenance cost, I feel I couldn't get results like this with a transplant.

I have contacted the clinic asking for a refund, they have told me they will keep my deposit unless someone else fills the booking. The chances someone will want to do the procedure in 2 weeks is low so I don't have high hopes. The clinic has a policy where they will refund a canceled appointment if cancelled more than 3 weeks away from the surgery date. I cancelled at 2 weeks, though they booked me in within the 3 week period without telling me about the notice period. The notice period was stated in the contract, I should have been more careful reading it but had I been told in the clinic of that notice period - I would have booked in later to allow me some cooling off time. Even though the booking was made emotionally and hastily, it is on me for not protecting myself by calming down and reading through the terms before sending through the deposit.