ciaus

Yea finasteride and minoxidil can work on the front part of your head, but most guys don't see much re-growth there because they wait until their hair loss has progressed significantly for a number of years before they try to do anything. By that time the DHT has  often permanently damaged those hair follicles beyond recovery.This is why the pharmaceutical companies developing those drugs targeted the more resilient crown area in the back during their research/FDA trials/marketing. If they did advertise that it helps the front hairline and temples, alot of guys past the point of no return would be complaining, generating bad press/ etc.

Most of what you are seeing their is probably more due to the minoxidil than the finasteride, one if its side effects is more hair on your face and other body parts too.

There was another topic in this section that mentioned minoxidilmax and I checked out their website. Like I said then I would be careful because they seem less than business professional, in terms of what they tell you about their operations/mission/ and contact methods.

Have you considered the "Morr F" formula being sold on ebay that one of the doctor members here recommended on this thread?

On topical finasteride I've seen some say it works as good, others that it doesn't work as well but its better than doing nothing. There hasn't been much widespread study on it yet. I'm no doctor/expert, but I would be surprised if it consistently works as well topically because of the systemic way it works to lower DHT levels in your bloodstream. It all really depends on how DHT sensitive your hair is genetically programmed to be, the topical may be enough for some. Some guys need more protection than others.

There are some here that use a topical formula of minoxidil and finasteride mixed together and report results, but if you start on both at the same time you'll never know if you are responding to one or both before its too late -finasteride is the most important one that you want to work because it protects the hair from DHT. Minoxidil can initially seem to give you the same 'regrowth' by thickening up miniaturized hairs and extending the growth cycles, but under the skin the DHT is still damaging the hair follicles.

Agree your donor looks very good but save it for now. Get with your doc about finasteride and see if you respond to it without side effects. Minoxidil is a good compliment to finasteride, it can thicken up your hairs, main side effect risk with that is pretty much just skin irritation, but alot of guys don't want the hassle of applying it daily.

6 hours ago, Novo said:

the other said I still had too many miniaturise hair all over

Miniaturizing all over - if they actually mean all over your head, that would include your donor area too. You definitely wouldn't want to get a hair transplant if your donor area is thinning as well. Otherwise if your donor is fine maybe they are worried about permanently shock lossing what you do have. Have you considered or tried finasteride previously to try to stabilize your loss?

2 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

I'm not following 

He means hair bangs. I don't know though, if you don't wash your hair much, or sweat alot and your hair is pretty oily anyway. For all we know the boys put on gobs of Clearasil every night...

Bangs (also known as a fringe) are strands or locks of hair that fall over the scalp's front hairline to cover the forehead, usually just above the eyebrows, though can range to various lengths.

2 hours ago, CJL said:

Would you recommend taking Minoxidil at the same time as Finasteride?  The amount of stress and anxiety my hairline has caused me gives me the dedication to stick to it, so I'm willing to try pretty much anything.  

They work well together to maximize how much coverage you get with your current hair situation. Finasteride helps protect your hair from DHT, and minoxidil thickens the hair and extends their growing phases so you have more growing at the same time.

That being said, starting them at the same time does make it difficult to evaluate how much benefit you are getting from each. Maybe you will only respond to one and not the other. Initially minoxidil can give you some 'regrowth' - thickening thinning hairs enough to be visible again, but in the long run it will only work for so long until DHT finishes off the hair follicles.

If you have the dedication for minoxidil, start with just finasteride and somewhere between 6-12 months if you are responding to it -maintaining your current hair/or even getting some regrowth, then add the minoxidil and see if you can further improve.

On 9/21/2020 at 3:51 AM, O Hare 57 said:

Don't F around.  I learned this the hard way.    You may want to wait a few years B4 you do anything and see how you progress.  Here is James Garner in his 40s and then his 80s.  As you can see at 28 you have a long life to deal with your hair ahead.  Plan carefully.  Don't be rash.

 

I agree with you except for using James Garner as an example, I think he was probably wearing a hair piece for years -better than alot of guys from his era to be sure, until he gave up and/or got so old he stopped caring. The recession in the sides, the stronger hairline with fancy combing directions look, its pretty good, but not fool-proof, looks like a piece that covers at least the front and the top of the sides, and you can see the difference in hair color which is too much to just be from hair styling products.

Since you are getting ready to start finasteride you'll want to give that up to a year, assuming you don't get side effects and respond to it, and then go back for re-evaluation, I agree with @1978matt , error on the conservative side. In your first pic looking staight forward that recession on the sides that rounds up along the top looks like it could continue in that direction pretty aggressively, especially given your young age and loss already. And I would consider minoxidil too to help maximize your coverage and help delay future procedures, if you have the commitment and discipline to stick with it -and again assuming you will respond to it.

Yea minoxidil effects hairs all over your head, and potentially other parts of your body too. Since your transplanted hair should have come from your donor area (assuming your HT doc did a good job), that's the most DHT resistant hair, and it will likely stick around for a long time regardless of whether you use minoxidil. But depending on your genetics, DHT levels, and how long you live, down the road even that hair can succumb to loss -but that's what DHT blockers like finasteride are for, they help protect the hairs from DHT, keeping the hair follicles producing visible hair, and the minoxidil just helps to thicken and extend the growth cycles of those hairs.

1.25mg is fine, that's what I started with cutting 2.5mg pills in halves and my doctor said he has patients that get results with that. I think 2.5 is the smallest dosage you can get without using a pill cutter or getting it custom compounded at a compounding pharmacy.

After about a month of 1.25 one of the doctors here posted on a different topic that he usually starts his patients on 2.5, that there's some literature and consensus that he and doctors he knows use. So I went back to my doctor and talked about it, since 2.5 was still a relatively low dose and I didn't want to wait or wonder if I would get more improvement from 2.5, I asked if he thought it would be alright and he approved, so I did.

The only side effect I've gotten from it is a little light headedness for about the first week, which I also got years ago when I tried the topical minoxidil too (I was applying it pretty liberally then to my crown and front/temple areas).

In the other topic on the Dr Bisanga patient thread that I copy/pasted my previous post, his rep says Dr Bisanga usually starts his patients on 5mg, I'm going to try to avoid going up to that dosage -because minoxidil is designed to work on your cardiovascular system I don't want to get greedy or push it. I'm getting good results with 2.5, better then when I was taking the topical, and the probability for side effects do increase with dosage increases. That and I know the main reason I am holding on to my vulnerable hair is the finasteride, the minoxidil while also important, is more like the icing on the cake, making the hairs thicker and keeping them in the growth phase longer.

I would recommend that you go get one of those home blood pressure monitors too and do some regular checks for maybe a week before you start like I did, to know your baseline numbers, and then do the same checks your first weeks while on it. Hair is important, but not nearly as important as your heart/circulatory system.

At least you are being honest about your potential to slack on taking the drugs even if they work, some guys overestimate their ability to commit and after the initial HT and enthusiasm wears off, stop taking the drugs and have to run back for more HTs than would have otherwise been necessary.

Personally, I think if you are going to try to address your hair loss instead of just letting it run its course, you should have a level of commitment that enables you to execute on daily rituals that may involve pills, topical formulations, and even hair concealers.

I do and it works. I have scalp skin conditions that make my skin too sensitive for topical minoxidil. I posted this yesterday on a thread from Dr Bisanga's patients when another member asked the same question:

==

yea I use 2.5mg daily, but you can't buy it over the counter like the topical formula. You'll need a doctor prescription, then any local pharmacy can fill it.

Oral minoxidil was originally developed to treat high blood pressure and they accidentally discovered the hairloss benefits later, similar to finasteride being originally developed for prostate issues. Its generally safe at the lower dosages for hair loss, but it can still potentially have cardiovascular side effects so you want to be mindful of that, especially if you are overweight and /or are already taking blood pressure medicine.

I don't have weight or blood pressure issues, but I still went to walmart and got a little home blood pressure monitor -like they use in the doctors office that wraps around your arm and squeezes, gives readout -, the one i got was about $30, and took some readings the week before I started to get my general bloodpressure baseline in case I started to notice symptoms or weird changes in my blood pressure numbers.

Rogaine has a liquid and foam formula -the foam formula is a bit more expensive, but it also absorbs and dries alot quicker so you can move on and do your toppik fibers and hair styling products. But the more hair you still have the harder the foam is to apply because it does absorb so quickly, potentially into your existing surrounding hairs.

The liquid is easier to apply in between your existing hairs and absorbs better into the scalp, but takes longer to dry - I've seen some guys say 20 mins, others 30 minutes, etc longer. There are factors for each person that will make this unique, like how much hair loss you have, how much you are actually applying (some guys apply too much trying to make sure they are putting on enough, worried that their existing hair is absorbing too much before it actually reaches the scalp etc).

If you don't have much time in the mornings and want to get everything done quicker go with the foam. If you have enough time in your morning ritual to be doing other things while the liquid dries, do the liquid.

But be aware, some guys have reported they go through a temporary hair shedding when they've been using the liquid for a while and then switch to foam. -And if you are just starting Rogaine, there's the possibility of hair shedding initially anyway, regardless of whether you use the foam or liquid, its just how it starts working in some people.

A hair follicle not producing visible hair is ..taking up valuable beachfront real estate, and very dead as far as all hair transplant seekers are concerned.

Technically, unless you burn or cut areas on your scalp, or have something like an auto-immune disease that mistakenly attacks and destroys your hair follicles, they continue to produce hairs throughout your life. Even the ones that are ravaged by DHT produce extremely miniaturized hairs so small you need microscope/camera assistance to see them.

Sometimes if its not too late, finasteride can halt or minimize the dht bombardment enough to maintain current hair production levels, even enable some follicles to start producing visible hair again. Rogaine can give you more visible hair too, but by itself without a DHT blocker will only thicken your hairs for so long until the inevitable.

Regarding the picture, I'm getting a shifty vibe about it. There was a time when I would have said there's no chance saving that head. But I've seen a thread on the forum, about a guy just using some meds, with various herbs and spices from the colonel's secret recipe, and he not only halted his substantial loss, but got alot of re-growth! I'm going go try to find the thread and link it.

In terms of age, the longer you wait the better because your loss pattern emerges more, but the general consensus for the youngest age ethically around here is 25.

Based on your pics I'd try to put it off. Have you tried concealers? Like Dermmatch and/or Toppik hair fibers on your crown especially while you wait for enough loss to justify the risk of a procedure. The forum moderator has alot more loss in his crown area and uses Dermmatch quite well to conceal it, he made a video topic linked below showing how he applies it. You can use that everywhere on your head including the front, but it won't help you bring down your hairline unfortunately, though maybe you can find a hairstyle with the extra thickness it can add to your hairs in the front so that instead of combing your hair straight back, you can comb it to the side so it lays on your forehead a little.

This guy's SMP thread, no scar hiding, but an example of how good smp can look, his before head pic from the top/down looks a bit like yours.

I agree about @Gatsby 's scalp micropigmentation, very impressive. Went looking for a recent topic where he posted a more recent pic, had to go back a bit further to a topic in may for this before/after.

21 hours ago, Maa said:

Can you buy minoxdil oral.?

and does it work? 

yea I use 2.5mg daily, but you can't buy it over the counter like the topical formula. You'll need a doctor prescription, then any local pharmacy can fill it.

Oral minoxidil was originally developed to treat high blood pressure and they accidentally discovered the hairloss benefits later, similar to finasteride being originally developed for prostate issues. Its generally safe at the lower dosages for hair loss, but it can still potentially have cardiovascular side effects so you want to be mindful of that, especially if you are overweight and /or are already taking blood pressure medicine.

I don't have weight or blood pressure issues, but I still went to walmart and got a little home blood pressure monitor -like they use in the doctors office that wraps around your arm and squeezes, gives readout -, the one i got was about $30, and took some readings the week before I started to get my general bloodpressure baseline in case I started to notice symptoms or weird changes in my blood pressure numbers.

Adding to the praise pile-on here, this is some of the best work I've seen framing the face period. Those temple points! Can you put all this into one of those Matrix-style brain downloads for the rest of the doctors out there?

27 minutes ago, Legend007 said:

n a 12 pack of beer for my journey .. 

Really, before/after or both? I was told no booze a week prior since alcohol thins the blood, could effect bleeding. Seen some less restrictive pre-op instructions online for up to a few days.

You definitely want to stabilize things first, or wait until the smoke clears for a while. Don't give up hope on the medical front, the FDA just approved a topical DHT blocker that doesn't mess with your hormones like finasteride -it blocks the DHT up at the scalp hair follicle receptors -the current approved strength is for acne and there is work being doing to get the hair loss formulation called Breezula approved in the US within the next few years.

About your younger years being your best - don't overestimate them, alot of where that comes from is older people wishing they new now what they did when they were younger, as the song goes -which stems from one of the eternal truths of human nature -youth is wasted on the young! Your middle years -30s up into even your 50s are where its at, especially for guys, when you've had enough time to establish yourself in your career/finances, logged some general life experiences, and are still physically young enough to have a good time.

10 days post op is playing it safe, and acceptable in my opinion, to re-start any medicated dandruff shampoos like Nizoral or H&S.  My doc's instructions were after 5 days I could resume my regular shampoo. It only takes days for the little incision and extraction wounds to close up and the scabs to form over and then shed off. We're talking about shampoo, it works on the skin level, not under the skin where the hair follicles are.

No offense @TorontoMan, but I question some of the post op instructions forum members are given. There was one guy on here recently who started a topic posting that his doctor's instructions where to lather his normal daily shampoo up and apply it to his head -and leave it on for like 20 minutes before rinsing it off the first week!

Generally I side with following these instructions exactly, even if they don't make practical or medical sense, so that should you get a sub-par result you can confront your doctor with a clear conscience when discussing what may have gone wrong. And when it comes to what does make medical sense, alot of the differences in my doc says x days and your doctor says y days to do this or that comes down to what the doctors think about how well their patients are going to follow the instructions.

If you have a dandruff/skin irritation issue that is being managed by the medicated shampoo don't put yourself through the pointless suffering of going months without it. I did some searching online and not finding anything about damaging HT results months or even weeks after the procedure. I would need to see some evidence before changing my mind on that.

On 9/16/2020 at 5:22 AM, TommyLucchese said:

All I can tell you is I am fine with Propecia and Proscar but this Aindeem stuff continues to cause problems. 

Weird, wonder if you were using bad/expired batches of Proscar, and it almost sounds like the Aindeem may have more than 1mg finasteride, or some other ingredients they aren't disclosing. Have you researched the pharmaceutical company that makes it at all? like do they make any other off-patent generics, where their actual production facilities are, anything bad in the news about them, etc.

I'd ping Melvin about editing the thread topic title to include the caveat that you get bad sides, or just make it something completely different like a warning about Aindeem in case someone just reads the topic title or the first post and runs off to go buy some.

So how much longer before the Mark Tam team rebuttal?