Hair4Days

This is the problem with this industry. Nobody really agrees with anyone else's philosophies. Information is all over the place with nothing set in stone. You have Guy73 saying hes gotten 8300 grafts via FUE, but then half of the industry doctors out there claim thats impossible. Ive heard were all maxed out at 6000-8000 grafts (Shapiro, bloxham, etc) depending on the texture of your donor. Ive heard Fue is only good for like 6000 grafts max if your lucky, and that includes harvesting outside the "safe zone" ... ive heard Fut grafts grow better, but then you see amazing FUE results? basically, ive "heard" it all. What are we supposed to believe?

5 minutes ago, Guy73 said:

For me that density is weak for 3k grafts in that section especially he had existing hair in the region. I guess I am comparing my results and knowing I was almost bare in my entire front starting out. I guess I should stop comparing but man every time I see them post a video down playing what fue can do , I can’t help and look at what doctor Nader does and 😊 smile. 

How did you get 8300 grafts via fue bro? I’ve never seen or heard of any doctor getting that many with fue alone 

4 minutes ago, Guy73 said:

thats 3k grafts? Just another example. 

He didn’t create a new hairline here, he blasted through that entire front half that was diffused. With it grown out it like that it looks full , you can deff tell it was a big case in my opinion. 

7 minutes ago, Guy73 said:

I would agree it looks like 35-40 per sq cm. 
the hair wet is a better indication of the lack of density. I guess my biggest thing is them always promoting fut as the gold standard. Just looking at my own results and others having done fue, I just don’t see the results being better fut with similar grafts. 

Here’s the thing with dr bloxham. I’ve consulted with him In person and over email. Theyre game plan is always to plan for the future. They feel you yield more lifetime grafts when you start with fut, and then move into fue when you can no longer take any more strips. This is how you maximize and utilize every single possible graft. With FUE, you can’t get harvest as many grafts. This is an actual fact tho, even fue clinics say Fut is for more advanced hair loss. As far as the quality of the result fut vs fue, i agree with you. I’ve seen stellar results on both ends. Dr diep for an example, or even your photos that i just looked at (although it looks like you took those pics from a Nokia) lol .. but i think it really comes down to how advanced your pattern may become in the future. I personally am a nw 3 now but fear i could become a nw 6/7, so I’m not sure fue is for me, or To be frank I’m not even sure a hair transplant in general may be for me considering i could have too much “demand” vs supply 

30 minutes ago, Guy73 said:

I don’t know guys, I have been looking at a few videos on their channel. He never explains how many grafts they do per sq cm? Also on this particular video after 5k grafts for A “gold standard” fut procedure I am not impressed with that hairline. 

 

What aren’t you impressed by? I think this is a pretty dense result. Maybe i would of broken up the hairline and zig zagged some singles around to make it appear more natural. It looks like the result of a perfect edge up from the barber. Lol. but it looks thick to me.

As for grafts per square cm, dr bloxham answers emails no problem. He explains everything clearly. I’m guessing around 40? Then decreasing as it goes further back 

On 4/9/2020 at 10:03 PM, Tbcruz said:

theirs a lot of people happy with their scars given if it’s not crazy stretched. Here’s one ⬇️. I think it’s about even people not happy with their scars and people with over harvested donors. Over harvested donors is taking over tho in my opinion. 
 

I agree man, theres so many over harvested FUE cases. Heres an example of why im 100% going with FUT.. as of two weeks ago, you would think i only needed my frontal hairline and slightly thicken the mid scalp, mayne 2000 grafts. I just recently cut my hair down to a  #4 up top and a 2 on the sides (way shorter then i usually do) And now that its shorter ive noticed my entire top appears to be thinning now and even my crown seems like it could "dip" in the future. It looks lighter at the bottom part of the crown. mind you, im sure cutting it that low exaggerates the thinning a little..but i think This is an indicator of an advanced pattern. Imagine i didnt cut my hair short and went with FUE?? They would of harvested all in the area that looks like it could eventually fall out in the future. My advice to everyone is to cut your hair and really see whats going on underneath all that length. lol

H&W put out good results. Consult with Feller and Bloxham in NY as well. They have probably one of the best results ive seen. check out their youtube channel. As far as FUE or FUT, ive heard FUT yeilds more lifetime amount of grafts. FUE is supposedly only good for moderate hairloss, but if your on track to be a nw 6 i would start with fut, get as much as you can that way and then move onto fue, maximizing your donor

I legit just did this myself too. I shaved my hair down to a number 4 and now i notice my entire head looks like a diffused nw 6. With it grown out you’d think i just need hairline work. It’s like an optical illusion and makes no sense. One thing i can say is that Our donor hair and sides are  naturally thicker so they could be contributing to an exaggerated thinner appearance. But i relate to your pain. Do we even begin surgery if were destined to be a nw6/7. Some doctors say you can achieve full coverage front to back with 2 large FUT procedures then some FUE after to fill in any gaps... but then i read out there that there’s too much demand and limited supply meaning not enough grafts to treat advanced hair loss patterns. It’s confusing 

@Melvin-Moderator any thoughts ?

7 hours ago, Tbcruz said:

Hey man. I don’t think your crown looking thinner has anything to do with shock loss because dr bloxham only worked in the front third. I’m pretty sure shock loss only Happens in areas where hairs are transplanted too close to native hairs which creates a blood supply issue. The crown seems to be completely separate in your case just my opinion. 
Did dr bloxham mention anything about the shockloss around the scar ? 

9 hours ago, BeHappy said:

Unfortunately I have to see it every day   😕

 

But I wasn't a NW 7 when I started and that's the point.

 

So I'm guessing you are a NW 5. If so, you weren't always a NW 5. At one time you had a full head of hair NW 0. Then you progressed through NW 2, 3, 4, and now at 5. Don't assume it will suddenly stop if you have a hair transplant. If I were able to go back and do it again with the technology and techniques available today I would mix several thousand beard grafts in the mid scalp and crown. This way you have something like a frontal third of around 3000 scalp grafts and midscalp and crown with a mix of maybe 2000 beard grafts and 1000 scalp grafts. That's 6000 grafts while only using 4000 from your head donor. I currently have over 4600 beard and chest grafts and wish I could have done those way back in the beginning.

 

 

 

So how many total grafts did you have done? How is your coverage / density considering you’re nw 7? 
 

im not a nw 5 yet but I’ll get there because i refuse to take anything that will negatively affect my performance in the sack. What’s the point of having hair if you can’t deliver. However, i do feel optimistic about surgery alone once i reach that point. I’ve spoke to many clinics that say it’s possible to have  dense frontal third coverage with reasonable coverage in the crown which I’m fine with. And I’ve seen photos of this being done With around 6000 grafts in a nw 5

30 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

This is not true, although the risk is less with FUT than with FUE because FUT generally concentrates the donor from the safest areas.

 

But it's nearly impossible to know what pattern a 22 year old will have.

 

1. It doesn't usually happen that way. Many people get the hairline dense packed because they don't yet have much thinning anywhere else. Then they start getting mid scalp and crown loss, but they already covered the frontal hairline band with 65 grafts per sq cm. If this person progresses to a NW 5 or worse they will run out of grafts well before covering it all.

2, 40 grafts per sq cm is usually  not enough to get decent coverage and if you average only 30 overall as you wrote then it's not going to look very good. A lot of guys would rather shave then have extremely thin hair.

3. A quick estimate of my bald area is 460 sq cm. That's more than double what you wrote. 460 sq cm at a 40 graft per sq cm average density would be 18,400 grafts.

 

I  have never seen anyone in my life permanently lose the hair in the center of their donor zone where an fut strip is taken. 
 

it seems like your an advanced nw 7 and expectations should be a little different. So in your opinion what’s the best result a nw 5 can achieve (grafts, coverage, density)

3 hours ago, gillenator said:

From my own observation, hair loss meds, especially low dose finasteride works efficiently for a larger percentage of the men who take them.

Still, it's always a good idea to plan your restoration from a more conservative approach because you never know what can occur in the future...the meds begin to lose their efficiency or the individual cannot tolerate taking them any more, etc. 

This is what i was telling @LaserCap 

you shouldn’t rely so heavily on taking meds for the rest of your life. The main focus should be keeping the donor in best shape possible so you could  utilize every graft to obtain maximum coverage if need be. 

3 hours ago, Tbcruz said:

Wow 11699 total donor is crazy and saying fue sounds crazier lol. 

This is the complete opposite of Dr Bloxham’s philosophy lol.

7 minutes ago, LaserCap said:

Plenty of people out there with global thinning.  

No one has donor to allow for a full set of hair, particularly in an advanced pattern.  Depending on the goals of the patient, it is always recommended they try to keep as much of the native hair as possible to allow for the best outcome.

Meds will not strengthen donor.  It can help retain and enhance native hair elsewhere.

Not sure what you mean by tolerate meds.  If you are going to have a side effect you'll know immediately.  Side effects to not surface years after taking/using meds. And, if they work, they'll continue working for as long as you do them.  Rogaine does lose some of its effectiveness at about 7 years - but the patient should continue using it otherwise they'll see more fall-out.

When you say, "stop working" are you referring to the visual change? So, when you see hair fall out, in the shower, sink, pillow...do you think this is hair loss? So, no fall-out - the meds are working?

 

I do not take propecia for personal reasons, however based on my research the drug simply slows down the process of hair loss and could eventually not work as well (Continued miniaturization after a while, not pillow shedding.) The debate on weather or not this drug is useful long term could go on and on. 
 

As for achieving full coverage via surgery alone. Let’s do the math. Let’s take a Nw 5 with limited native hairs left. If he has 6000 total grafts to harvest (most do) and a 200 sq cm surface zone of loss (which is front to back on a nw5). You can either  1. cover 30 grafts per sq cm throughout the whole head. 2. Distribute them where it’s denser in the front, 40 grafts per cm in the hairline zone, 30 mid scalp, 25 in the crown. If you’re referring to people not having the donor for a full set of dense hair like when we were 20, then of course we can all agree. But do you agree that you can Atleast get full coverage with very acceptable density in the front half while compromising density in the crown? 

6 minutes ago, LaserCap said:

Agree, in most cases and when done properly.  "We all?" Disagree.  Most? ok.

"would have enough to do whatever in future" Disagree as well.  This will depend on many factors including what hair loss he has, if he does meds or not, elasticity etc.

I’ve never heard any professional in the industry claim anyone has less then 5,000 available grafts for harvesting. What does taking meds have to do with if he can extract grafts in the future to address thinning? Are you referring to taking propecia to strengthen donor hair? What happens when someone decides they can no longer tolerate meds, or they stop working. It’s best to design a plan to obtain maximum  coverage through surgery alone, without depending on meds.

12 hours ago, LaserCap said:

But, what if?

I think a lot of this depends on the age.  If you're on your 50's, 60's perhaps as the pattern has declared itself.  But in your 20's? No way.  Think of a 22 year old with a full set of hair who is just starting to mature his hairline.  Eventually he has a procedure.  No meds.  in his early 30's he starts thinning the crown.  Eventually he is going to be a class 6 and will dip in the donor.  He starts losing the grafts that were transplanted in the temporal areas.  Why? Because the grafts were taken from the area where he was destined to lose the hair.  So, thinking of transplants too early is not a good thing.  This is one of the reasons why many doctors want to wait and avoid having issues with the patient down the road.  In the eyes of the patient - it is then the doctor's fault.

If we had a hair crystal ball.........

 

You run no risk of Losing transplanted hairs if they were taken from the center of the donor via FUT strip. A 22 year old can do a procedure if his pattern calls for it. We all have anywhere between 5-8000 grafts available so this particular person would have enough to address his hairline and then whatever thins in the future 

On 2/14/2020 at 9:42 AM, LaserCap said:

If you're a candidate for transplants it means a number of things.  You have hair loss somewhere, front, top back. Please post photos of your entire head to answer properly.

If you've lost the front, there would be no native hair to shed.  If the loss is elsewhere, how much native hair is left?

If you've shown the propensity to lose, you will continue losing.  Forget shedding for a minute.  Say for example you want to add grafts to the crown.  You fill in the circle.  Looks great.  A few months later you lose all the hair around the circle.  Now you're left with an island worth of hair and nothing around it.  We call this chasing the pattern.  Eventually you lose all you donor and then lose the hair in the front.  Now you have nothing to work with.

It is important to understand the donor area is finite.  If we had a wheel-barrel full of hair, great.  But we don't.  It is imperative you keep as much of the native hair as you can so you can get close to achieve a "fuller" looking set of hair.  

If you choose not to use Finasteride or Minoxidil, perhaps a laser is in order.  There is also PRP which, by the way, can help reverse miniaturization and can bring the grafts in sooner.  

Now let's answer your question.  Yes, a procedure can cause shock loss of the existing hair.  So what? That hair typically returns along with the transplants.  And it's not so much shock.  Typically, when the doctor is making recipient sites, he is using a very sharp instrument.  Inadvertently he can cut the native hair.  Just gave you a hair cut.  That hair will continue growing - as it always did.

Lastly, this all refers to shedding.  That's normal.  Hair loss is different.  Hair loss refers to the miniaturization of the strand.  Eventually the hair dissipates until you can no longer see it.  Once gone it never returns.

If you are not going to do meds, and I do respect you for it, DO NOT move forward with transplants.  

Why wouldnt you move foward with a procedure if you chose not to take medication? Clinics like Feller and Bloxhams objective is to design and transplant without depending on medicine, because genetics always win in the end, and you have enough donor to achieve full coverage front to back.

Hey guys,

I was wondering if there were any opinions out there on the topic of transplanting through native hairs that are currently miniaturizing/thinning. I understand they are "on their way out" like most clinics say, but how deep into thinning zones is it wise to transplant? Could you do more harm then good (shock loss)?

23 minutes ago, Tbcruz said:

I did get this Red dot on my head after a shower  don’t think I lost a graft but kinda scared me I wonder what it is ??

Any ideas ??

It looks like an ingrown hair.

1 hour ago, Edward926 said:

James, typically that is how it works in two procedures, but it also depends on hair loss pattern. We were aiming at 2500K grafts to cover the front part, but Dr. Bloxham told me that the yield was 3106K grafts, so we decided to put those grafts in the crown. So a total of 606 grafts were placed in the crown area surrounding the small patch of native hair. I will know the specifics once I go in for a follow up visit in 3-4 months and I will post that as well. Dr. Bloxham is a great and his staff is as well. 

Thanks for the clarification Ed!

from your before photos, it looks like you had a decent amount of existing hair in the front half. We’re you given the option of working around it?and Are you experiencing any  “shock loss” ? 

3 hours ago, karatekid said:

You said you had several frontal/phone consultation, did you ask them that? they should assess your donor and have some estimation. There is no general answer for that. Anyway, yes, I have seen several cases of patients who were nw6-7 and got full coverage, with good density.

@karatekid

Yea I’ve asked them that,  and got different answers every time. Some say you can harvest up to 6-7k grafts and get full coverage (lighter in the crown) for a nw 5/6. I have above average donor quality 

and others say you absolutely must be on preventative medications to hold onto  existing hair because you only have a limited donor supply.. I’m not a interested in medications and would just like to know if it’s possible to avoid 1 of 2 things : 1. Having hair in the front with a bald crown, and 2. Having my native hairs fall out and left with spaced apart transplants. 

@Melvin-Moderator 

I get you can maximize your donor by doing FUT first then polish off with fue. But have you seen a Nw 5/6 have success getting full coverage front to back? I’m cut hair for a living  myself and every time i get a customer in my hair that has had a transplant, it’s always nothing in the back and spaced out hairs in the frontal zone. Never seen a good one in person to be honest. This type of stuff makes me second guess starting.

Hey everyone,

I, like many others are on here to educate myself & also see results on Hair transplants. Ive had a handful of consultations, in person and via phone. I do know who id be using if and when i decide to get a procedure done however, there are still a few areas that confuse me.

My biggest concern is future loss. Alot of clinics like to do the frontal zone first. I fear having the front done and being left with a wide open crown. Essentially having half a head of hair. I have heard clinics say you can obtain "full coverage" in a worst scenario (like a NW 5-6) but how likely is that considering graft availability. Basically, what is the best outcome for someone who is experiencing NW 5 or 6 loss? Is it even worth starting a procedure?

Another concern is obviously scarring and chosing FUE or FUT. I have heard opposite opinions from clinics in favor of their respective harvesting stratergy. Fue doctors bash FUT, FUT doctors bash FUE. Some say they do both, but lean towards one or the other. Some say you get more lifelong grafts via FUT, some say you get the same amount regardless of the strategy. Which strategy do you think gets more grafts? Does FUE deplete the donor as much as clinics say? Should i do Fut first then fue?

Thanks!

J

Hey Edward,

Looking forward to seeing your results. Dr Bloxham is awesome. How many grafts were placed into your crown? I was under the impression that Dr.Bloxham typically addresses the front in one session, and the back half of the scalp in a second procedure. Was this explained to you as well?

whats up bro, i have a similar hair type as you. I have a few questions. Im planning on seeing Dr. Bloxham because im also from NY, and his work looks great. Since youve gotten the surgery, would you say the transplanted hairs are completely undetectable and look natural? Also, You dont see the scar at all with a low fade? What guard does your barber use for the hair ontop of the scar? Do you plan on getting a second surgery in the future?