Mycroft

16 hours ago, Drugs110 said:

Yes but sadly I believe the reason they're doing this to us is because of online dating apps. I'll simplify what I mean: Tinder is the major app here. Tinder uses an ELO system. The only guys they see on Tinder are male model-tier with perfect square NW0-NW1 hairlines because they have the highest ELO score, while the average and below average looking aren't actually shown. So say the first 100 guys a girl's profile sees on Tinder is all male model-tier guys with perfect intact hairlines. This is what she sees, so this is what she thinks your average guy looks like. When she goes out in the real world, all she sees is actually average looking guys with some form of recession going on (research says 2 out of 3 men will start balding starting at age 18). So of course she's gonna be disappointed... LOL

 

This is indeed very sad but idk, if you read this, maybe now you'll understand why they're so shocked by actually average male looks hahahaha

I was intentionally not responding to this particular bit because it didn't seem as relevant, but since desirability in the eyes of women became more of a theme in this thread I feel like I should comment on this.

Tinder's algorithm hasn't used ELO in over a year. If you're still not having success with women on the app it has nothing to do with ELO. Beyond that, I have a good ten years on you and a mature hairline myself, and I can still attract the attention of women in the age group you're looking at. What you said about how you "shouldn't" have a mature hairline at 23 is incorrect. Mature hairlines start to kick in around 17-30 on average and you are right there in that age group. As I said, only major anomalies like Bill Clinton or George Lucas keep their juvenile hairline, and most of THOSE men wouldn't have been considered 10/10 in the looks department even in their prime.

I am going to second the recommendation to start hitting the gym if you're looking to improve your appearance. Getting in shape will not only give you some muscle, but can also improve a number of other things you were talking about like facial aesthetics etc. Learning to actually style your hair solo would probably help you too.

Again, you're going to do what you want regardless, but if you think the marginal aesthetic difference in moving your hairline back to where it was in those older photos is going to majorly increase your attractiveness in the eyes of women you're barking up the wrong tree. There are other things you can do that would have a much more significant impact. Not trying to be a jackass here, but that's the truth.

1 hour ago, Drugs110 said:

Yeah it's very sad. Nowadays women judge men based on factors they can barely control, such as hairline/hair, jawline, chin, cheekbones, height, eyes, genitalia size

 

It is what it is. Why do hair transplant clinics not operate on anyone under the age of 25 btw?

For starters they're probably trying to avoid patients who are confusing a mature hairline with MPB and pulling the trigger on a major surgery without actually knowing what they are getting into. Again, NW2 is not male pattern baldness. There's no NW0. NW1 is a juvenile hairline. NW2 is an adult hairline that 99% of adult men have before they start balding. Actual baldness doesn't start until NW2A at absolute earliest, or NW3 if you'd rather keep it simple. But more importantly, did you ask these doctors why they turned you down due to age when you had your consultations? Did any of them discuss the risks with you?

If you're dead set on this surgery I can't stop you, but I do want you to know what you're getting into because even the best surgeon in the world cannot guarantee you a good result. Do you have a plan for what you'll do if yours isn't good?

15 minutes ago, Drugs110 said:

Women always say my hairline is disgusting, or that I need to fix my receeding hairline. I do agree with them. I don't only want to restore my temple peaks for women - I myself would love to see this new hairline as well! But obviously as a straight man, the opinion of the women I'm attracted to (18-25 yo) matters quite a lot. To me and to them my hairline and temple points are disgusting. Also styling is definitely quite difficult with this hairline, trust me I've tried! And I can't go to the barber every day (for financial and time schedule-related reasons)

There is absolutely no way women are saying this to you all the time unless they're trying to be catty towards you for some reason and are too dim to come up with anything clever.

You've gone from talking about medication to maintain your hair to surgically constructing a hairline radically different than your natural non-balding hairline. No surgeon with any shred of ethics going to do that work for you, especially at your age. What are you going to do if you ACTUALLY start balding? If you think you're getting roasted now you don't want to know what will happen if you get stuck with a ridiculous hairline that's too low and lose the hair behind it.

Your temporal pullback in the second photo looks even LESS noticeable than the first photo.

This is a totally normal looking adult hairline. Unless you have thinning in other places not shown in this photo this doesn't even qualify as male pattern baldness.

Stay on Finasteride. Do minoxidil if you want, but this is nothing to stress over. Almost every man will have the corners of their hairline pull back a little bit as they reach adulthood. If you're consistent with your medication and you manage to stay about where you're at for your entire life you've won the game.

Your hairline is fine and most men would kill to have it. You seem like you have a touch of dysmorphia so I encourage you to take a step back from this and stop freaking out. If you have other spots where you think you're thinning you're welcome to share, but once again this is a totally normal adult hairline and nothing to worry about right now. Get a free consult from some of the doctors on the site it you want a professional opinion.

23 hours ago, moreBeardThanHair said:

@Steeeve I spent some time looking through your story and now I'm pretty stoked. Calmed some of my nerves.

I'll be doing about 2500 in October, I hope I have an experience as good as yours.

Would you also recommend the PRP? Anyone else opinions on PRP?

I have had two PRP treatments with Dr. Arocha with very positive results. I haven't actually had any surgery done because even though I initially went to him for a surgical consult the PRP worked well enough on my native hair that I've put surgery on the back burner for the foreseeable future. I'd definitely recommend giving it a shot.

Also worth noting that the doctor and his staff definitely care about their patients and have gone out of their way to follow up with me to see how I'm doing and Dr. Arocha has personally returned my calls a couple of times when I called his office with questions just because he wanted to make sure I felt at ease. It's really hard to find doctors in hair restoration or otherwise who will give that kind of care and attention to patients, so that made a big impression on me.

Note: Haven't updated my thread for a while and what you see there is still within the timeframe of my first treatment just so you know what you're looking at.

The fact that this patient can wear his hair this short after having so many grafts extracted is pretty damn impressive.

If you're actually a Norwood 2 that's completely normal. Maturation of the hairline is something almost every man goes through. Those that keep their juvenile hairline are a rare anomaly.

If you're going further than a 2, that's where these other treatments may start to help.

1. If you've been on Finasteride for 5 months that's still early. Wait at least 12 months before changing anything.

2. Oral minoxidil can be tolerated on small doses but talk to your doctor because potential side effects need to be monitored closely. Why jump straight to oral? Have you given topical a shot?

Do you have any photos from before and after you started Finasteride? Are you doing anything to track your progress other than looking in the mirror daily and stressing?

4 hours ago, Shifty said:

I should put an ** here. I haven't found anything directly relating minox to hairline regrowth. I was using it on the front tbh just because, but I have switched spectral dnc.

 

also an ** i have previously used minoxidil years ago by itself with zero results, I continue to use it now because I see what I am doing as a whole not as a bunch of separate things, if that makes sense. 

I see people say this quite a bit but the rationale for it is flawed. The Minoxidil trials that got the drug FDA approved were only testing on the vertex which is why the box explicitly talks about vertex only. The drug is a vasodilator and the front or the back of your head should have very little impact on this.

Less impact of Minoxidil in the frontal area for some people likely comes down to a few possible things.

1. The front is more sensitive to androgens on average and thus miniaturization is more aggressive there.

2. People often only start thinking about losing hair when they notice the front going, by which point the viability of many of those follicles is long since compromised. On a similar note, you also have a far better view of your hairline than your vertex and can more accurately assess gains or loss.

3. Minoxidil relies on a particular enzyme being present in the scalp to convert into minoxidil sulfate which is the thing that's actually helpful. Non responders are people with low amounts of this enzyme in the scalp. It's possible that those enzymes tend to be less present towards the front...but I'm not sure that tracks given the proximity to the back. Seems like it would be all or nothing. When oral minoxidil is metabolized in the liver that critical enzyme is created, which is part of why some people see better results with oral vs. topical. It's also the reason that some people start to see hair growth across their bodies. If minoxidil can promote hair growth on your face, back, chest, etc there's no reason it wouldn't also do so on the front of the scalp. Again, the question is largely how miniaturized those follicles are or how long they have been dormant.

Having said all this, I'm curious to see whether Spectral has any additional benefits for you. An informative thread as always.

On 8/10/2020 at 11:59 AM, NAVI said:

In the other forum , you told hair transplants can look normal without harsh lights and if I am not wrong euginix has been providing good coverage and density even for norwood 6. At least in normal sunlight, it should not look very thin because we will be in sunlight for a good amount of time.may be his hair is very thin and short hair is the culprit.

And I also remember asking you, in another thread,about how good 40 percent density is and you showed me pic of gordon Ramsay and that looked great to be honest, nothing like it would be see through in sunlight. I am thinking 40 percent density should be good enough to give an illusion of full hair even in sunlight and that's what zoomster might have been planted with.

On 8/10/2020 at 8:26 AM, NAVI said:

Why it thinning is visible in sunlight?I dont want to sound negative but I was thinking hair transplant can provide coverage at least if not volume.

He has pretty full coverage here. It's not super sense coverage, but complete. He is also wearing a very short cut rather than growing his hair longer and sweeping it back or to the side to take advantage of the layering effect of longer hair. To me this looks very similar to other Eugenix results for this pattern of loss.

I think it probably is an issue of length. Longer hair tends to emphasize any demarcation you might have in density and if I compare your pre-op photos to the spots you've highlighted these areas do seem  to represent the areas where the native hair was all but gone. 

Just a couple of things based on photos:

1. The recent photos vs. the older "good" photos are comparing your hair in less favorable conditions vs. your hair in more of a "best case" kind of scenario.

2. For anybody with spots that are thinner there's a length sweet spot (transplant or no).

3. You do actually have maturation of the hair that is still pending. The individual hairs are still settling into normal texture, and that does impact the way they "fall" as well as their diameter and so on. Eugenix itself will tell you that true results when all is said and done are probably at 18 months, so you are still going to see more subtle changes between now and then whether good or bad in your eyes.

I know that probably seems like a ways out but as you said your donor is great and if you want a pinch more density later that's probably no issue. In the meantime I don't think you have to worry about anybody but yourself noticing this stuff. Even in your least appealing photos the hair is looking pretty good.

On 8/5/2020 at 10:01 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Wow that looks amazing, that’s interesting you noticed further thickening after 12 months, it’s great for some to see.

I've seen a few doctors mention that their estimate for full maturation is more like 18 months. I've also seen a few talk about the fact that as individual hair cycles normalize your result might look a little less dense around the 18 month mark because the transplanted hair has now settled into natural and irregular cycles. All this to say at 18 months you're probably seeing your "true" final result when considering these factors.

Edit: thanks to the OP for sharing the guard his hair was cut at. That's a great scar to be able to wear it at a 3. Depending on goals and available grafts you might be able to do some FUE into the scar to conceal it further if you were so inclined.

That donor looks spectacular at two weeks. This is what people dream of when they're considering FUE procedures.

As someone who is also messing around with non-surgical treatment (with decent success) my biggest piece of advice would be to add one thing in at a time and wait 6 months to see if you're seeing any additional benefit. Rinse and repeat. This way you will know what is working and what is not because most of these treatments work gangbusters for some people and do nothing for others.

Have you tried Minoxidil at all?I Idon't see it mentioned in the original post but that would be a fairly simple thing to add in and experiment with. If you're a responder you could see a decent amount of additional growth. Might not hurt to add in Ketoconazale shampoo as well in case Minoxidil irritates your scalp (it's also a mild anti androgen). Past that you are getting into more experimental territory and if I were you I would want to have investigated those two options before looking at anything else.

On 6/8/2020 at 1:33 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

NW1 forget about that, with no fin, you’ll end up chasing hair loss and run out of donor supply quickly. You need to keep a mature hairline, to ensure you have enough grafts for the midscalp and crown which WILL go in time. 

Cost depends whether you want to stay close to home. I would say anywhere from 14-20k depending on whether you choose FUE. 

Now, can you restore your hair to a NW1? Yes, but should you? No, especially without fin. Plan long term, it’s a marathon not a race. You want to look good and natural for as long as you live. 

If price is a concern I'd definitely look outside of California. Everything is more expensive there and cosmetic surgery in particular will be at a premium. I'd seriously consider flexing on your willingness to travel if your on a tighter budget.

As Melvin said, you're also going to be looking at a cheaper price by opting for FUT over FUE, so that's worth considering as well. This choice might even impact which clinics you look at. Some surgeons do nice FUE and FUT, some seem to do better work with one or the other, and some clinics exclusively offer FUE.

Damn. I hope my hair looks half that good at your age.

To be honest your donor is looking fine right now. I think there is still room for it to improve within the next four months or so. In the meantime it doesn't look overly patchy or thin so I think you're in a good spot. Just try to chill for now. How is the recipient?

I do think the marketing of it all is probably a key point. There is a lot of it out there and I think it would be easy for an uninformed patient to fall prey to these promises.

How many people do you see these days saying they've "done their research" when what they really mean is they've done a few Google searches for "best hair transplant clinics" and clicked on the first few results.

15 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

That’s a excellent result for a such a moderate amount of grafts! You guys are doing a great job. 

I'll second this. That's quite a bit of ground to cover with 2,000 grafts but the first pass looks great.

Glad to see the clinic sharing a few more FUE results as well. I look forward to seeing the results of the patient's second procedure down the road.

Definitely some potential here if the treatment is effective for you. Good photos too. I'm looking forward to seeing how you respond.

5 hours ago, wtrailer said:

Question for everyone. How many grafts would be needed for more density? I'm not much concerned about the crown at this time. Moreso the front and mid scalp. Would 1000 be reasonable?

Your best bet would be to explain your goal to Dr. Panine and have him tell you how many he would recommend based on remaining donor, prediction of future loss, and your hair characteristics.

Great result for this patient. Everything blends so well that it just looks like his hair thickened up one day. Even the donor looks solid at such a short length. I'm honestly jealous.

Great result and the donor still looks good. Any post op pictures for this one?

I think U.S. residents in particular have come to expect price gouging in the medical sector. Hopping the plane to Turkey is, in their mind, the equivalent of going to Canada to get their prescription drugs. Beyond that, a number of these poor guys may be in a situation where cost is a hard limiting factor, and they have to either find a budget-friendly clinic or accept baldness.

The median income where I live is 40k with a reasonable cost of living, but even in that moderate scenario a 20k+ procedure that will likely require future procedures is a pretty daunting financial investment. Many guys probably have cost as a hard limit and it's either find someone to do it on a budget or not do it at all. 

Those sound like good graft counts for the respective regions. For scar concealment you'd probably only need a few hundred FUE grafts assuming any future scarring looks as good as the current one.

Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

I want to speak with Dr. Arocha on hid thoughts, he has ear to the ground in regards to potential treatments. I regularly read his blogs. I’d like to set up a Q&A with him like I did with H&W.

I'd love to see this as I had been wanting to talk to him about exosomes as well. I had called his office and spoken with him just before the pandemic and he did mention exosomes offhandedly, but we didn't have a chance to discuss them.

Looking forward to watching the H&W video later today when I have a block of time.