Swimmy
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Posts posted by Swimmy
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6 weeks ? You've got to be kidding, right ?
6 weeks is not even enough time for your body to adjust to the drug. Most likely what you were feeling was exactly that, your body adjusting to the new experience of the lower DHT levels.
Depression ? Maybe I'm from the old school (41 years), but when I used to tell my parents I was depressed and didn't feel like getting up out of bed to go to school my father would whip out his belt and smack me a good one on the ass. It's truly amazing what a sharp pain sensation like that can do to get rid of depression.
I take 1.25 mg of finasteride daily. Brain fog ? I can still remember phone #s from ex-girlfriends in the early 1990s. I can also play Beethoven's most complicated piano compositions from memory without missing a single note! Lethargy ? I'm 41 years old and I'm in the best shape of my life; I ride 20 miles every day on a bicycle and leave guys in their mid 20s panting and gasping for air trying to keep up with me. I think they watch too much TV which is another MAJOR cause of depression!
Are there days when I wake up and it's hard to even get out of bed ? You bet! But do you know what I do to GET MYSELF OUT OF BED ? I smack myself on the ass and FORCE myself to get up !! Try it -- it works !
My motto: no pain, no gain. You either REALLY WANT to keep your hair and look your best, or you're mamby pamby about it. Also, the MIND is a much more powerful tool than 99.9% of people realize. You can overcome anything IF you have the WILL POWER to do it.
Spending too much time hanging out on hairloss forums can also be an EXTREME source of depression !!!
Yikes, 20 miles a day? That's really not good for you. A lot of oxidative stress. Are you taking anything after your work out?
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thank you very much for your help Swimmy , but i have few doubts please clarify my doubts dude ,
1 . i am in india , where can i get this resveratrol and curcumin ?
2. resveratrol and curcumin = is it a tablet or it is cream that has to apply on the scalp ?
3. I saw some few medication for scalp inflammation in some site , they are
a.T-gel
d. Dermovate
c. Lobate cream (temovate(dermovate) generic chobetasol propionate) - it is available in india
will the above medicine a,b,c really helps in curing scalp inflammation completely ?
4. I am using Nizoral shampoo . so do i have to use "Natural HERBAL SLS " Alone or i can use this shampoo along with Nizoral ? ....thank you . waiting for your reply
1.Curcumin is of course Turmeric. Isn't india where that stuff comes from? You can buy the stuff online at multiple places. Like Iherb
2. Its internal so its in pill form
3- I don't know much about those other things. They may help but probably won't cure it.
You can use both. Use Nizoral once or twice a week and then your choice of shampoo the rest of the days Preferably SLS free.
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Hope you feel better...I think a lot of people will go throught depression on or off Fin or any other drugs. When someone starts a drug, and have a medical change, they automatically assume it is the med, but it is not always.
Especailly with a drug like Fin....becasue I think most men losing hair go through heavy emotions about it (the loss of the hair).
Um no. I don't if you are trying to defend fin or not...It seems when someone on this forum posts their feedback that they are getting bad symptoms from fin, everyone goes into 'say ain't so" mode. An act all surprised, when sides from fin are very common. More common than the supposed only 3%.
You can automatically assume if you suddenly feel really depressed while in Fin..Well then its more than likely its the fin.
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You are suffering from Scalp inflammation....Or its possible you have demodex. DHT shouldn't be a issue if you're taken niz and fin. It could be a variety of things.
From first hand experience resveratrol + Curcumin synergistically is good for inflammatory responses and should help your scalp. It neutralizes neurogenic inflammation
This is a good shampoo for fungal, inflammation, and dandruff. So it should help
Natural HERBAL SLS FREE SHAMPOO with Organic Aloe Vera & Jojoba - Normal/Oily Hair - HAIR CARE
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here's a question related to supplements.
does the timing of when to take certain supplements matter?
i usually try to take them in the morning rather than later part of the day
Yes. Some supplements are better in the morning or at night. Some are better on a empty stomach and some should be taken with food.
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thanks Swimmy, i appreciate your lightning quick responses! it is really nice to have someone to talk about particularly around this topic haha...#2. i think i did see a shed but i don't know if it was a different hair style or stress (currently under lots of stress). what are known saw palmetto sides? i heard rumors of it was sex related but i don't know if it has been confirmed.
I think the sides are similar Fin but to a lesser extent.
i never really paid attention to brands, i focused mostly on the dosage and volume. but i think i will try different things because i think it does make a difference whether your body can absorb or not. can you point me to where the supplement link is? i cant find it in the forum. thanks!Brand is very important. No brand is the same. Some use crappy ingredients.ETC. Now Foods Brand seems to be the best overall brand for supplements and price.
Here's the link
http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/157775-what-top-hair-supplements-swimmy.html
i actually never heard of magnesium oil + Potassium, is this something that you need to mix on your own or there are solutions out there ? i'll do a bit reading on those because the dizziness hits me like crazy.
Not sure if you mix it. I think you apply one that day and then the other the next.
i hope you are doing well yourself. i also tried lots of different things before until i just settled for the approved and proven approaches. the problem i see was the evaluation period is too long, it often takes 6 month+ to see if it works or not and it's quite a bit of investment with your time and money.
Too early to tell. Started a month ago. But it seems like my front hairs are getting a darker pigment
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i guess it would be kinda hard to find natural ingredients for these products. I just figured I would ask.
Thanks!
They might be natural. But I'm not sure
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Just curious how many doctors are doing it in the coalition? How effective is it? It seems a lot of balding men suffer from excessive body hair. Ironic. At least save on that valuable donor area
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#1 i don't think it was stress related, i think it had to do more with a crazy life that i had during that 1 month. lots of all nighters, too much intimacy ....lol ( i know how some people say they can be unrelated but that's really all it was)
now i look back, i believe my MPB was very gradual just that 1 month it spiked significantly where density in my hair changed quite a bit.
healthier eating was really just including more supplements that targets at preventing hair loss such as the ones i've mentioned.
#2 i will definitely check it out, would you recommend to start saw palmetto again? i dropped it because i just dont really feel like it was of any help and i dont know if it's mental but it seems to have some sexual side effects on me such as low sex drive and i don't get my morning wood as i would before. i've taken saw palmetto for almost 5 years before the recent drop.
#3 i've used minox for about 1 year and half. i think my hair is a little bit thicker than before but i got mix feedback from people. never touched fina because im afraid of the potential side effects.
minox makes my hair really dried out and it leaves residue on my hair which makes it look like i have gray hair, any recommendations on that? (after i wash it out, my hair is very shiny and healthy without it on). im also suffering dizziness and a little bit of black eye from it.
i also agree with you that just letting it sit and do nothing about it is probably a bad idea unless you dont care much at all about at least maintaining what's left.
i guess my real question is do people's hair grow back from a thinning state to near where it once was because it doesn't seem to be the case unless for those adverstisements and scams.
1- Staying up late and a lack of sleep can result in hair loss.. I actually think this in itself raises stress levels in your body. Too much intimacy shouldn't be a problem. . Studies show that only masturbation rasie DHT levels. Not sex itself.
2. Its possible it was helping you. If you ever got a shed after dropping it then its most likely it was helping. If you don't think the side effects are worth the risk of taking it then don't. If you take fish oil. Take Neptune Krill Oil. Its about as good as you can get and 9 times more absorb-able. Its about 18-20 dollars for 60 gel caps. However, I think the price evens out since you only have to take one a day and still be more effective than the likely 2-4 a day you have to take of generic fish oil. So in actuality the cost difference is very little, but a better product.
3- Have you stopped using minox? Hairs becoming minox dependent so you can get a shed from that. Oh and yes you are experiencing the common side effects of Minox. It can make you look sick.If you want to try something similar without the same side effects .You can try magnesium oil + Potassium chloride alternating topically . Just like minox it opens up the potassium channels in the scalp.
The earlier you catch it the better. But Its possible to turn miniaturized hairs into healthy hairs again. Right now I'm experimenting with different products on my hairline to see if I can get them unminiaturized
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its all about your genetics man. don't think too much about it.
Its all genetics is a lazy answer. "don't think too much about it" is definitely the wrong approach to take. Inherent predispositions are only part of the problem..The point is to work on them so they aren't as susceptible or so as not to trigger them.
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When MPB started for me, my hair was coming out at a faster rate than usual. It usually tapers some as you age. Mine started at 17. It seems like more and more younger people are fighting MPB these days. I've seen 17 year olds who are already NW4!
Why do you think that is? Maybe something to do with the ever increasing unhealthy western diet?
Japanese have the lowest rate of MPB..And is the healthiest nation in the world. However, after WW2 when nations like Japan were opened to the western diet MPB actually spiked.
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Hi All,
just a little bit about myself
i've been losing hair since 5 years ago at age 21 (WTF!) which was shocking to me espeically at such a young age. it occurred almost in 1 month duration where i lost an extensive amount of hair to the point where i was able to tell something was wrong. since it happened so fast, i assume it wasn't MPB, and it was going to grow it back so i decided to just let it sit naturally, after 6 months, it did grew back a little bit but it was no where near where it was. Base on the hairloss , i believe i do have MPB
i've been trying several things but mostly on the natural end such as eating healthier, sleeping earlier and took supplements such as fish oil, vitamin B, saw palmetto(recently dropped).
2 years ago, i decided to take things up a notch and started applying generic minoxidil (5%) which i saw very little results.
Current routine minoxdil (5%) twice a day, supplements: fish oil,vitamin b.
Current progress: definitely not more than before, and it feels like the hair loss cycle is going to start again
i am just wondering are there any success stories where people grew back a good amount of their hair from a thinning state?
feels like most proven approaches (minoxdil and propecia) only helps you to maintain, and transplant can't really be done to to thinning patients.
what other alternatives are there for people that are thinning ?
sorry about the vent, appreciate your help in advance
#1 What was the cause for your initial hair loss? Do you believe it was stress related? It can be numerous things outside of MPB..Or just MPB. Its possible that a event in your life triggered the switch to start your hair loss. Also what do you mean by healthier eating? Some things you eat you think may be "healthy" really aren' healthy for hair. Like high Glucoser foods, or those that spike insulin.
#2 I wouldn't just taken random supplements for your hair loss. If you go that route you need to do lots of research. For starters you can visit the thread on top supplementations for hair loss that was made on here. Secondly the type of brand is all the more important.
3# How long did you use minox and fin for? You should use it for about 6 months to see any progress
4# Alternatives- Laser Helmet, experimental treatments. Things like that.
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swimmy likes to confuse and try to baffle every one by overcomplicating matters and posting irrelevant studies that only just touch on the subjects we are discussing, to the extreme!!!
There's a lot of info out there that correlates:cool:
changing ur diet to opose the effects of dht will take alot longer and will never have the same direct effect or be as effective as finest has so it its a no brainer.......
diet is important and should be correct in all people not just balding men but even then the healthiest man in the world could still go bald due naturally high androgen levels no matter how good his diet is!
It will be quicker. But in the long run addressing the underlying causes is a more permanent solution. No offense but you seem to have a more simplistic apporach to MPB. Most people do. But that is the problem. MPB is one of the most complex. Its not just DHT. Anyone who's done deeper research on it can tell you that DHT is only the tip of the iceberg...And yes if you can commit fully to the required diet changes and the appropiate supplementation that your body calls for you can completely halt your hair loss. You you would be addressing the underlying causes. Such as lowering your DHT safely and naturally. Its a lot easier said cause there is trial and error behind it. And it takes a lot of discipline.
swimmy in regards to the nizoral lithium debate yes you are correct it may be 20% more effective than nizoral each to there own,but me personaly i dont wanna waste my time looking silly by hunting down and purchasing LITHIUM then crushing them in to bottles,
when i can just by nizoral of the shelf........
and 20% better than nizoral again is minute an yes these shampoos help oppose dht but in the smallest teeny way its almost irelavent when you look at the big picture. i think the difference isnt worth the hassle of crushing tabs as it wont make any difference, if anything it will only aid the finest! everything else is doing the work in regards to the hair loss.
with the shampoos its this simple why use a normal shampoo when you can use a shampoo that is proven to help hairs..... thats it plain and simple! its not a cure and with out fenist you will still go bald no matter how much nizoral or lithium you have.... its even debatable whether it works on every man?
so its up to the individual user but for me the risk of looking like you have mental issues seeking out lithium as well as the humility of going bald already isnt worth the rediculously small 20% of the tiny 1% good any shampoo will be doing any way in the grand scheme of things?
Well actually you can go online and buy the lithium.
It only takes a few minutes out of your day to put it in a bottle. Only once and it last the whole bottle. About Tbsp of it. So I really don't think its that big of a hassle.
20% is actually a huge difference. Why not take any edge you can get in the fight against hair loss.
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I wouldn't buy this stuff. All the ingredients you can buy separately cheaper and probably better quality.
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Background: Vitamin‐D deficiency and vitamin‐D receptor genotype (VDR) are risk factors for several disorders with inflammatory components, including coronary heart disease (CHD) and diabetes, though the mechanisms involved are unclear.
Aim: To examine the hypothesis that vitamin D status modulates the matrix metalloproteinase (MMP) system in a population with a high prevalence of vitamin D deficiency, a situation affecting susceptibility to CHD and diabetes.
Design: Prospective cross‐sectional, interventional and embedded studies.
Methods: Circulating MMP2,9, the inhibitor TIMP‐1 and C‐reactive protein (CRP) were measured during studies of vitamin‐D deficiency as a risk factor for type 2 diabetes and CHD in 171 healthy British Bangladeshi adults, free of known diabetes or major illness. Vitamin D status, VDR genotype, body‐build, blood pressure, lipid and insulin profiles, glucose tolerance, fibrinogen, PAI‐1, folate and homocysteine were measured. Vitamin‐D‐deficient subjects were re‐assessed after 1 years' supplementation. MMP, TIMP‐1 and CRP levels were measured in 41 subjects halfway through 5‐year follow‐up. Independent determinants of circulating concentrations of MMP9, TIMP‐1 and CRP were assessed by multiple regression analysis.
Results: Vitamin D status was the sole determinant of circulating MMP9 (inversely) and an independent determinant of CRP (inversely). Determinants of TIMP‐1 were MMP9, systolic blood‐pressure (directly) and VDR genotype (TaqI). Significant reductions in MMP9 (−68%), TIMP‐1 (−38%) and CRP (−23%) concentrations followed vitamin‐D supplementation.
Discussion: Vitamin‐D insufficiency is associated with increased circulating MMP2,9 and CRP, correctable by supplementation. This finding provides a possible mechanism for tissue damage in chronic inflammatory conditions, including CHD and diabete
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Oh here's a nice little study
Androgenetic alopecia and microinflammation Yann F. Mah?,PhD, Jean-Fran?ois Michelet,MSc, Nelly Billoni, MSc, Fran?oise Jarrousse, BTS , Bruno Buan, BTS , Stephane Commo, BTS, Didier Saint-L?ger,PhD and Bruno A. Bernard,PhD
International Journal of Dermatology
Volume 39 Issue 8 Page 576 - August 2000
Today, androgenetic alopecia (AGA) is considered to be an alteration of hair growth and/or a premature aging of the pilosebaceous unit with a multifactorial and even polygenic etiology. 1 The fact that the success rate of treatment with either antihypertensive agents, or modulators of androgen metabolism, barely exceeds 30% means that other pathways may be envisioned. The implication of various activators of inflammation in the etiology of AGA has progressively and recently emerged from several independent studies. 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11 A fibroplasia of the dermal sheath, which surrounds the hair follicle, is now suspected to be a common terminal process resulting in the miniaturization and involution of the pilosebaceous unit in AGA. 2 8 We review here several observations underlining the possible implication of a slow, silent, and painless process in AGA. Because we think that it should not be confused with a classical inflammatory process, we have called it microinflammation. An early study referred to an inflammatory infiltrate of mononuclear cells and lymphocytes in about 50% of the scalp samples studied. 2 Another more recent study by Jaworsky et al . 3 confirmed an inflammatory infiltrate of activated T cells and macrophages in the upper third of the hair follicles from transitional regions of alopecia (i.e. which are characterized by actively progressing alopecia). This study also reported the occurrence of a developing fibrosis of the perifollicular sheath, together with the degranulation of follicular adventitial mast cells. The miniaturization of the hair follicles was found to be associated with a deposit of so-called "collagen or connective tissue streamers" beneath the follicle, 2,7 as well as a 2 2.5 times enlargement of the follicular dermal sheath composed of densely packed collagen bundles. 3 This thickening of the dermal sheath in progression zones of AGA has also recently been observed in our laboratory using immunohistochemical staining ( Fig. 1 ).
Horizontal section studies of scalp biopsies indicate that the so-called perifollicular fibrosis is generally mild, consisting of loose, concentric layers of fibrotic collagen that must be distinguished from cicatricial alopecia. 4 It is unclear whether or not the fibrosis seen in follicular streamers (stelae or fibrous tracts) is permanent and/or alters the downgrowth of anagen hair follicles. Only 55% of male pattern AGA patients with microinflammation had hair regrowth in response to minoxidil treatment, which was less than the 77% of patients with no signs of inflammation, 4 suggesting that, to some extent, perifollicular microinflammation may account for some cases of male pattern AGA which do not respond to minoxidil. 4 Another study on 412 patients (193 men and 219 women) confirmed the presence of a significant degree of inflammation and fibrosis in at least 37% of AGA cases. 5 The upper location of the infiltrate near the infrainfundibulum 2 7 clearly distinguishes AGA from alopecia areata (AA), the latter disease being characterized by infiltrates in the bulb and dermal papilla zone. 12
The aim of this review is to determine the location and chronology of the microinflammation process within the complex pathophysiology of the human pilosebaceous unit in order to improve the possible approaches for the reduction or prevention of the development of AGA.
Classically, an inflammatory process is ascribed to a central major mediator or pathway. Such a monofactorial vision has been historically well exemplified by the famous interleukin-1 (IL-1) scheme developed by Oppenheim et al . 13 which is still valid even after 13 years. In fact, many inflammatory agents are at the center of a huge array of effects, involving cells, enzymes, adhesion molecules and other biological mechanisms. The identification of the effects of isolated factors is only part of the problem; it may be more important to determine when and where the individual factors are involved in the complex sequence. This pathway has been clearly identified, and several inhibitory anti-inflammatory drugs acting on this aspect of inflammation have been developed and clinically evaluated. 14,15 , 16,17
The cytokine/chemokine side of microinflammation
Why does microinflammation take place in the pilosebaceous unit and for what benefit and purpose? Fig. 2 and Fig. 3 show, in a simplified sequence, that inflammation is a multistep process which may start from a primary event. Let us look at the clues at the "crime scene" of AGA: we observe a perifollicular infiltrate in the upper follicle near the infundibulum. 2 7 This suggests that the primary causal event for the triggering of inflammation might occur near the infundibulum. 3,7 Supporting this point of view, improvement of the inflammatory aspect of AGA has been reported in a pilot study with an antimicrobial lotion. 7 One could speculate that several inhabitants of the scalp, such as the "triad" ( Propionibacterium sp.; Staphylococcus sp.; Malassezia ovalis ) or other members of the transient flora, could be involved in this complex inflammatory process. 7 The presence of porphyrins (produced by Propionibacterium sp.) in the pilosebaceous duct of 58% of AGA patients (compared with 12% of control subjects), which are able to induce the production of complement (C5) chemotactic factor, is considered to be a possible cofactor of this initial pro-inflammatory stress. 6,7 Keratinocytes are also known to respond within minutes to chemical stress, pollutants, UV irradiation or even mechanical stress. 37 Not only are radical oxygen species, 38 NO, 39 PGs, and histamine 40 produced, but also intracellularly stored IL-1 is released 37,41 (see Fig. 2 and step 1 of Fig. 3 ). By itself, this pro-inflammatory cytokine (as well as IL-1 which binds to the same receptor) is able to inhibit the growth of isolated hair follicles in culture in vitro. 9 11 This concentration-dependent inhibition of human hair elongation and survival indicates a high sensitivity to IL-1 of the isolated organ in culture in vitro (IC 50 = 10 pg/mL 11 ). In vivo , transgenic mice which overexpress IL-1 in the basal epidermis and in the outer root sheath of their pelage hair follicles exhibit a spontaneous cutaneous phenotype characterized by a sparseness of hair. 42 As a response to an IL-1 signal, adjacent keratinocytes which express receptors for IL-1 start to engage the transcription of IL-1 responsive genes 41 ( Fig. 3 , step 2). In vitro , following IL-1 stimulation, this transcriptional activation cascade is induced within 6 h in plucked human hair follicles. 11
Alternatively, skin keratinocytes, which may also have antigen presenting capabilities, could theoretically induce T-cell proliferation in response to bacterial antigens. 51 These antigens, once they have been "tagged," are then selectively destroyed by infiltrating macrophages, Langerhans cells, or natural killer cells. 50,52 On many occasions, however, the causal agent persists, resulting in sustained inflammation ( Fig. 3, step 4). This corresponds partly to the situation which has been pictured in the progression zone of roughly one-third of alopecia cases: infiltrating T lymphocytes, together with mastocytes and macrophages, located in the upper perifollicular adventitial dermal sheath perpetuate a local inflammatory stage. 27 This phase of inflammation often results in tissue remodeling, where collagenases, such as matrix metalloproteinase (MMP)-9 (transcriptionally activated by pro-inflammatory cytokines) or MMP-8 (directly produced by infiltrating cells), may play an active role. 5355 Thus, collagenases are suspected to contribute to the tissue changes and the so-called "perifollicular fibrosis" by "preparing" tissue matrix and basal membranes for macrophages and T-cell adhesion. Accordingly, this scenario facilitates the secretion of membrane-anchored cytokines, such as TNF-. 55 Other factors, such as MCP-1, have been directly suspected to contribute to organ fibrosis in an experimental model of renal inflammation. 56 As MCP-1, together with other chemokines, was found to be expressed in human hair follicles in vitro, 11 as well as in the eccrine ducts of sebaceous glands in vivo, 57 it might also be actively involved in the progression of perifollicular fibrosis detected in AGA. 26 The development of perifollicular fibrosis might thus appear as the signature of a disequilibrium between pro-and anti-inflammatory pathways.
Relations between inflammation and steroidogenesis: the missing link
There is no question that androgens are major modulators of hair loss. Recently, it was shown that testosterone inhibited the growth of outer root sheath keratinocytes only when they were cocultured with dermal papilla cells derived from the bald scalp of an adult macaque, 58 reinforcing the hypothesis of an androgen influence on hair growth via the dermal papilla. 59 The potent metabolite of testosterone (i.e. 5-dihydrotestosterone, 5-DHT) is considered as a "culprit". 60 5-DHT is generated from testosterone through the activity of 5-reductase (5-R). Two active isoforms of 5-R, which differ both in tissue site distribution as well as in optimal pH for enzymatic activity, have been identified and cloned. 61,62, 63 While the type II isoform is considered to be the major isozyme in genital tissues, 61 the type I isoform is considered to be the major isoform expressed in skin and in the pilosebaceous unit. 64,65 Isoform II, however, has recently been detected in the inner root sheath of the pilosebaceous unit by immunohistochemistry, 66,67 Northern blotting, 67 and the pH dependence of optimal enzymatic activity. 67 Thus, the contribution of both isoforms in the regression of the pilosebaceous unit is still a matter of debate. Recently, a clinical study using finasteride, a strong inhibitor of 5-RII (and weak inhibitor of 5-RI), showed that intervention in androgen metabolism could, to some extent, modulate the progression of AGA, when the drug was given by the oral route, 68 but not topically. 69 After oral ingestion, an improvement of hair growth was observed, which was associated with a drastic reduction of serum levels of 5-DHT, corresponding to those observed in castrates. 68 Despite such a reduction of circulating 5-DHT levels, however, a number of individuals (60-70%) still remained unresponsive to this treatment, indicating again that simple dysregulation of 5-DHT synthesis levels or a genetic polymorphism of 5-R genes cannot account for all cases of AGA, and a polygenic etiology should be considered. 1
Thus, to date, the only evident link that can be established between androgen metabolism and the complex inflammatory process is sebum production which is controlled by androgens. 70 As sebum harbors a large amount of microorganisms which use lipids as nutrients, 8 it cannot be excluded that, at least for some individuals, androgen metabolism might facilitate the colonization of the sebaceous infundibulum and sebaceous ducts by such microorganisms which may be involved in the first steps of pilosebaceous unit inflammation.
We propose here working hypotheses which do not invalidate the contribution of a hereditary genetic androgen imbalance in AGA, 60 but rather attempt to integrate the neglected microinflammatory aspects of alopecia into the complex etiology of AGA. On the one hand, excessive local and/or endocrine, genetically exacerbated 5-DHT synthesis results in sebaceous gland enlargement; 2,60 as a consequence, some scalps might offer more comfortable niches to harbor the previously mentioned pro-inflammatory microorganisms. 6,7 On the other hand, androgen imbalance and metabolism may be locally exacerbated by pro-inflammatory cytokines. For example, gingival fibroblasts have been reported to modify their androgen metabolism through the action of several growth factors, such as epidermal growth factor (EGF), transforming growth factor beta (TGF-), and the pro-inflammatory cytokines IL-1 and TNF-. 71 Therefore, one could speculate that, once the inflammatory process has been triggered, the androgenetic mechanism of alopecia could subsequently be locally amplified. This upregulation of androgen metabolism by pro-inflammatory cytokines remains, however, to be established at the pilosebaceous unit level.
Our visit to the "crime scene" of AGA yielded many clues ( Fig. 4 ). We know now that, at least in about one-third of cases, the tool which causes the lethal damage is a microinflammatory process. Several factors are present, however, which are suspected to have handled the tool: androgens, microbial flora, endogenous or exogenous stress, genetic imbalance, and possibly others. Although other suspects or tools are likely to be discovered in the future, it cannot be excluded that, for each individual, the causal agent, as well as the sequence of events or combined factors, may be different. The large number of molecules claimed to be active and patented in this field, 89 and their limited efficacy in offering a definite and extensive cure of AGA, confirm that the mechanism of AGA is highly complex. Accordingly, it appears that, due to the complexity and multiple interactivities and cooperations involved throughout the distinct inflammatory pathways (partly described in Fig. 2 ), an anti-inflammatory strategy should be targeted to the appropriate effector(s) at the right moment. For this purpose, we have developed a simple assay to evaluate individuals with potentially affected hair follicles. 11 We observed that plucked hair specimens of 33% of the 116 volunteers evaluated could be classified as highly inflammatory in terms of spontaneous IL-1 production. 11 Consequently, the identification of the "inflammatory alopecic individuals" may help to adapt the right answer to the right cause. Such a selective approach might be valuable for other parameters, such as an imbalance in 11 HSD activity, 5-DHT synthesis, or microorganism colonization. Encompassing individual diversity is thus a prerequisite for appropriately addressing the biological conditions contributing to AGA. Our findings and a review of the literature suggest that inflammation in its diversity is a potentially active player to consider in this approach.
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scalp inflamation results in itching which results in damaged hair being lost most often in irregular patterns or patches,how ever the author reports of hair not being the same quality in the MPB pattern ie on top in the high risk areas or area more sensitive to DHT,this eqyuates to minaturisation to me and if a dht blocker is not used now when the hairs can still be saved or some quality improved they will shed and most likely continue to decrease in quality untill they are gone for good as the dht cuts off blood flow and attacks the follicles........ that is the nature of it!!!!!!! eating diff food wont prevent this if he is predisposed!!!!
Really? How about you go ask this question over to the link I gave you? There's hundreds of people there who have stopped or slowed their hair loss by simply changing their diet. DIET plays a huge factor in HAIRLOSS! It plays every part in how much DHT your body is regulating!
Don't be ridiculous, Its for people who are predisposed MPB. Again, this is what the problem aims at. All of the mention below are the cause of MPB
Reducing insulin producing foods or the impact of such foods on glucose and insulin.
Controlling over expressed DHT
Removing heavy metals
Correcting metabolic conundrums
Reducing oxidative stress
Improving glucose metabolism
Optimizing thyroid function
Normalizing estrogen metabolism
Balancing prostaglandins
Curtailing inflammation
Balancing intestinal microflora.
Now there's nothing wrong with what you're taking. Fine by me me
If we made a check list I wonder what areas on here your route is covering.
!its not an assumption dietry changes are so slight that by the time nay signifcant chnage in the diet has been esyablished the effects of MPB onset are so fast and sometimes harsh the difference will be irrelivent!!!
Yes that is a assumption. Diet plays a part in every aspect of our life. From how we feel, mentallly, and physically. To how long we live. So I would like to see research that dietary changes are a slight.
Nizoral 1% can be used up to every other day and why would you want to wash your hair more than that? with out the need to buy lithium?? and the benefits from both shampoos or potion is again minute hardly nothing at all so why bother crushing pills etc just by off the shelf and use in combo with more effective proven treatments ie minox and finest? just seems like overcomplicating matters keep it simple........ as the benefits are both small it aint going to stop hair loss at all far from it if anything.... it just backs up the finest!
Oh really? Lithium has shown be 22% more effective than ketoconazole .
dietry and supplemtaion being correct is called healthy living and should be normal practice for both hairloss suferrers and non balding men alike not marathon cure for androgenic alopecia as im affraid you will just go bald!!!
Oh geez there you go. Do some research. I'll get you started off with a few.
Human Scalp Dermal Papilla and Fibrous Sheath Cells have a different expression profile of Matrix Metalloproteinases in vitro when compared to Scalp Dermal Fibroblasts.
Arch Dermatol Res. 2005 Sep;297(3):121-126.
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Its silly cause we don't know. He said he experienced scalp itch and was suddenly losing hair.. This doesn't automatically means he has MPB or whatever and should take a bunch of stuff. He could simply be losing hair soley on scalp inflammation and not DHT. Scalp inflammation does not need DHT and most times than not can occur without it.swimmy you always seem to come out with some far out left field answerr for everything instead of the obviouse!!!!!DHT in the scalp causes inflamation and itching and sensitivity i had it myself, its a fact!!!!!!!
also in regards to diet, dietry requirments or lack of can act as a precurser for dht spikes which would also explain why he gets the symptoms on and off as i did also when i first notice the onset of my MPB,
regardless of his dietry shortfalls the author of the post is complaining a disatsisfaction for HAIRLOSS...... which we all know is caused by DHT!!!!
so your statement "I don't know why people are telling you to take hair loss treatment for this. None mentioned will help you with this problem" is silly..
There's plenty of first hand experience that ..Foods high in gluten cause scalp inflammation/ itch. Hell, I notice it to. Gluten is intolerable. I had some fastfood today and my scalp is going crazy..It never does that.
These are also strongly correlated with scalp inflammation/itch
1. peroxynitrite,
2. malassezia yeast, bacteria, etc.
you can change and alter his diet all you like and give him advice on all the homeopathic remedies you liike also but the facts are is minturisation will continue.....as he is more than likely predisposed to dht sensitivity!!!]
That's a assumption. Resvertral and Curcumin have plenty of studies that show it stops sinflammation and has high anti oxidant activity. I ran out a few days ago and have to order more. That's probably why my scalp is going crazy right now.
It takes like 3 minutes to crunch the lithium and put it in a bottle.Huge hassle Secondly, studies have already shown that Lithium/DMSO is more effective than Nizoral. Guess what? It can be used everyday without the damaging effects. So is it equivalent? No not really. Lithium combo is more effective.i know wot i would do any way?? why mess around cruching lithium and buying potions when you can get the equivilant effect from ready to use nizoral with out half the hassel, and why concentrate soley on dietry requirements when in the mean time you continue to go balled and miniturise due to male androgenic patern alopecia?????
Why concentrate soley on dietary matters? Cause thats the only way to get to the underlying cause. .So you can assume I'm "balding" Or maybe I have stopped my hair loss? What it all boils down to, you are putting a band aid on your head and will inevitably lose and problem remains with DHT blockers I'll keep taking my "magical potions' back by research to address the real cause of hair loss.
For the sprint- DHT blocker, minox, etc
For the marathon- Dietary, proper supplementation
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thanks very much
, how long i use this treatment ?i didt understand u right , my top scalp get little sensitve like " twice or more" a week , it goes and comes time from time is this the problem ?
It gets sensitive due to inflammation. Something in your diet is causing this . This is where most scalp inflammation comes Are you consuming any common allergenic foods like eggs or peanuts? Find a pattern. Other everyday foods like bread may cause this to.
Curcumin+ Resevratral is good at counteracting inflammation .
Or adding Lithium orotate/DMSO liquid to a shampoo.
Haha, I don't know why people are telling you to take hair loss treatment for this. None mentioned will help you with this problem.
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Hi Swimmy
Did you mean to say that you were only able to use it for one month and then discontinued!! if so, what was the reason to discontinue..
Just ran into a money problem. I actually have a lot left. If you use it properly it should last longer. I just figured there's no point in making a commitment if I couldn't buy it when it empties at the time
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are any of these products organic (or close to it)?
natural ingredients?
are any of these products organic (or close to it)?natural ingredients?
Dermaheal ingredients
Full Ingredients
• Rh-Oligopeptide-2 (IGF-1), Rh-Polypeptide-1 (bFGF), Rh-Polypeptide-9 (VEGF), Rh-Polypeptide-11 (aFGF), Copper Tripeptide-1, Octapeptide-2 (Prohairin ?4), Hyaluronic Acid, Biotin, Arginine, 2-O-Ethyl Ascorbic Acid, Polygala Tenuifolia Root Extract, Portulaca Oleracea Extract, Pleurotus Multiflorus Root Extract, Thuja Orientalis Extract, Ginkgo Biloba Leaf Extract, Multi-vitamins and Amino Acids
As for the Stem C'rum I don't know the ingredients list. Its not listed but its from Dermaheal. This is all I found. So some of its listed
Dermaheal Stem C’rum HL(Anti-hair Loss)
Lyophilized Powder 5vials + Stem C’rum HL Solution 5ml, 5vials / set
Length and thickness of hair have been increased in the hair root organ, when applied with Stem C’rum HL.
Direction for Use: Use general mesotherapy and mesoroller (microneedle) method.
Step 1. Remove both caps from the vials
Step 2. Inject (or pour) the solution to powder vial
Step 3. Gently mix well
Main Ingredients: Insulin like Growth Factor-1 (IGF-1), basic Fibroblast Growth
Factor (bFGF), Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF)
(10 ppm each / vial), Copper Tripeptide-1, Biotin,
Human Adipocyte Conditioned Media Extract,
Amino Acids, Minerals and Vitamins
As for the Dermo
DERMATOPOIETINTM is a 159 amino acid long
polypeptide. It is constantly produced by skin almost
exclusively onto the stratum corneum (upper skin layer)
of the human epidermis. DERMATOPOIETINTM serves as
an autocrine factor that initiates a cascade of events
directed to deeper layers of skin.
Activation of cell growth signaling cascade
DERMATOPOIETINTM activates genes encoding growth
factors such as keratinocyte growth factor (KGF)1-3,
hepatocytes growth factor (HGF)1, granulocytemacrophage
growth factor (GM-CSF)4, and transforming
growth factor-alpha (TGF-alpha)5. These growth factors,
in turn, initiate a cascade of events leading to fibroblast
and keratinocyte proliferation, keratinocyte migration6,7,
and entire skin renewal.
DERMATOPOIETINTM suppress expression of
connective tissue growth factor (CTGF), a major
fibrogenic factor responsible for excessive scarring or
keloid formation through promoting proliferation and
collagen synthesis of mesenchymal cells12
I'm not sure if these should be considered "natural". But I don't see any actual chemicals. They would be pretty gentle on your scalp and are absorbed quickly
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However, Dandruff is one sign of pending hairloss
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Lithium orotate/ DMSO liquid added to a nice SLS free shampoo will eliminate dandruff and has the same benefits of Nizoral. Only better.
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here's my story , about 3 to 4 years ago i started to grow my hair to be long and " i have very-good hair density " as time passes the first year and da second and the tird every thing is good i luv it:) and my hair is in very good density and natrual and from time to time i cut my hair to bottom of the nick to keep my hair in good strength..... to the forth year " 8 month ago " i start to lose hair in the Top scalp ! ! :eek: and i started to see difference in hair density , , the top scalp is less density from other sides :confused:
so i decided to cut all of my hair
to keep it all in the same range , and the hair stoped from fallin 
..... but when i take look deep in my hair i see diffrence in density , the top scalp is less density and time from time i have little itching in the top scalp .
so i need help to get my hair to its natural density ? any advice .....
sorry for the long story :rolleyes: , yea luv for all
If your scalp is itchy and you are losing hair its probably Scalp Inflammation. If you fix that it should help.
, how long i use this treatment ?
to keep it all in the same range , and the hair stoped from fallin 
..... but when i take look deep in my hair i see diffrence in density , the top scalp is less density 
help me friends , i am suffering a lot from itching itching
in Hair Loss Drugs
Posted
Where the itch is, is where hair loss occurs. On the top. Usually never on the sides or back. So that's why you aren't getting a itch in those places. Curcumin+resveratrol together have a anti inflammatory properties. This includes every part of your body not just your scalp. It will selectively block the CB1 receptor. Curcumin by itself (downregulates androgen receptor, TGF-Beta), inhibits PLA-2, MMP-9, COX-2, TNF-a. But with Res protects against neurogenic inflammation.
Not sure if its a full solution! It could be a full solution to your inflammation and itching..However, by itself it won't stop MPB. Make sure you order from a good source! Jarrows Curcumin 95 is recommended. Country life or Now foods resvertral are preferred. I ran out of supply on mine two weeks ago and was waiting to reorder. Without it my scalp went inflamed so I know it works for me.
"2. my point on this itching in my head may be due to DHT ,because i am using finasteride and nizorol only for one and a half months , so i think this period of usage is not enough to stop the DHT effect in itching , may be it will take some time to cure the DHT infection . This is the thought running in my mind but i don't know its true or not , please tell me whether my guess is correct or not ?
:("
No, that would be plenty of time to see some kind of improved result on your inflammation.
IMO, I wouldn't take any of those things. First cause I don't have a problem with scalp itch or inflammation with what I'm taking. All those things you mention are harsh on your scalp and can dry out your hair. Another thing you might want to try is get a sls free shampoo like i mentioned. Order some DMSO liquid and lithium orotate and add some to your shampoo. Its scientifically shown to be more effective than nizoral and can be used everyday. That will help with the scalp itch and inflammation.
Give it some time. About a month.If none of it works you might want to see a doctor. It could also be possible that you have demodex or some kind of scalp fungus.