mustang

3 hours ago, NikosHair said:

It's all business baby!

How many reputable HT clinics offer a course of PRP costing thousands with no proven benefit?

What is interesting when you read the small print with XYON they state:

XYON is not a healthcare providernor does it practice medicine or pharmacy.

Talk about washing your hands of accountability.

So what is XYON?

XYON facilitates telehealth appointments (“Telehealth Services”) between Customers and independent healthcare providers who may be able to provide treatment to Customers (“Telehealth Providers”).

And if there was any doubt in your mind on accountability and quality control, they double down on their legal status:

All Telehealth Providers and Pharmacy Providers are third party service providers. XYON does not control, supervise or interfere with the practices of such third parties.

Pays your money you take your choice ...

 

Actually, PRP does work... if done correctly and to the correct person. Most clinics inject PPP together with the PRP and this is were things go wrong. PRP is extremely expensive, each pipet is like 100-200 dollars and you need at least 3 of them to get pure PRP for a Norwood 4-5. So just in cost of tools it's 600 dollars to 800 dollars. Plus the room, Dr's Fees, it's get quite ridiculous. Now if you have scaring o traction alopecia or are a diffuse thinner with stable hair loss on medication it will definitely have a cosmetic outcome, again, if performed correctly which almost nobody does.

It won't do anything if your are receding on your hairline. That's granted.

7 hours ago, jim1973 said:

If you don't mind, please keep us posted and I'll do the same with my products.  I'm currently on 5mg of oral minoxidil daily and .5mg of oral dutasteride daily and am still losing ground.  I feel that these oral products don't work for me so really considering taking topicals soon.  (I started on lower does of each almost 1 year ago but have been migrating up to these doses since and have been on these doses for 4 months - no results).  

I'm sorry to tell you that if oral dutasteride has not worked for you then topical will not work for you either.

Sometimes Finasteride (orally) works better than Dutasteride as it reduces too much DHT therefor spiking your scalp free testosterone and your follicles are sensitivity to other androgens as well. If you are crushing your DHT and still losing ground. Finasteride spikes it less so hence it works better for some over Dutasteride.

Adding an androgen blocker to your regimen such as Pryilutamide or CB0301 has worked for many, specially on the hairline as Dutasteride, Finasteride and other 5AR's are more effective on the vertex and crown. I wouldn't touch RU58841 if my life depended on it. Flutamide and CB0301 are both FDA approved.

You can also look into dermarolling Dutasteride Mesotherapy once a week. Also very effective but again, not on the hairline.

8 hours ago, FinallyHT said:

Perhaps its because it takes 9 months to work? Thoughts? I can't imagine HW would push a product that doesn't work. 

I'm not promoting the product, as I've dropped over $1K on three bottles of top dut with no results yet.  Today marks exactly full 6 months of use. I will use the product until this last bottle lasts. After that if no results, I will drop it. 

1k??

Who is charging you 175 USD per bottle a month?

Damn, and I thought 70 EUR for a 2 month supply was expensive already 

19 minutes ago, jim1973 said:

@mustang Most of the formulations by the national companies (Hims, Keeps, Happy Head, Strut, etc. all seem to have formulations of .25% or .3% (of both Dut and Fin).  Your suggestion of only wanting to use .05, .02 Dut or .01 of Fin is more in line with some of the studies I've read but if those are the proper doses, any idea why these big companies offer these doses?  To get the doses you suggest, it seems like you'd need to have a formula compounded locally for you (unless you know of a company who already offers these lower doses?)

Any pharmacy will compound it for you to your desired strength with a medical prescription. 

Both Paratti and the Andorran pharmacy make it to your specs but both based in Europe.

To be honest I have no idea on why they go so high on the concentration. Might as well take the pill but I am no expert. This is a good question to email them.

54 minutes ago, Hairlossresearcherexpert said:

Mustang is a shill literally he’s known in the community as a scammer 

Do you have anything positive to say or progress to share with us or did you just create an account to attack me or anyone who has had success with Topical Dutasteride?

16 hours ago, lunch_owl said:

Im interested in looking at patients who intentionally overharvested their donor to the top and replaced it with body hair. Have you seen any cases like this that you can link or show pictures of? It might be a strategy that i would opt for in the future.

Overharvesting and homogenous depletion are entirely different things.

You want to do the second if this is your approach.

Fit Farming is not the same as donor restocking, fit farming is done in one step. They take out a graft from your donor, take a graft from your body, implant the scalp graft on your recipient and implant the body graft where they extracted the scalp graft. It's an expensive and slow procedure but essentially you can replace everything you take out with body grafts.

Donor restocking is adding BHT grafts to your donor after it has healed or been overharvested or depleted from HT

23 hours ago, jim1973 said:

@Melvin- Moderator Here is a link to a  study where it mentions the different delivery vehicles and how long products would need to be left on topically for maximum effect.  The liposomal formulas were ranked 3rd (out of 4) in regards to how long the product would need to be left on the head for maximum efficacy.  https://perfecthairhealth.com/how-to-apply-topical-finasteride-for-maximum-absorption/.  Having said that, I'm not applying any topicals yet and you and others seem to be getting good results so possibly only getting a small % of the product absorption is best for some individuals.  I'm still learning from you and others who contribute to these posts hoping to find something that works for me.  

 

Yes, this study is very interesting and backups many things.

Trichosol absorbs less than Liposomes. This allows you to use a lower concentration with Liposomes.

If I ever hop on Topical Dutasteride again I am staying at 0.05% max, maybe even 0.02%. 2ML

For Topical Fin definitely 0.01% every other day (2ml).

12 hours ago, BurnieBurns said:

I'd heard plenty of success stories with topical dut including my own.  

Many failed attempts I've notice are using formulas they've made themselves and lord knows if what they're using is real Dutasteride let alone a proper carrier system

Very true

Most people who tried Topical Dutasteride either bought Minoxidil Max which is EXTREMELY low quality Dutasteride. I have purchased from the same source and it looks completely different to the pharma grade one or made them themselves from gel capsules with poor vehicles. 

I know that there are hundreds of guys still using Paratti's Dutasteride after 3 years, it obviously works for them. I used to speak with Francesca and she told me she had a lot of orders for it.

20 hours ago, Hairlossresearcherexpert said:

Mustang has literally been known as a sales man for topical dutasteride on every forum he makes money off people who are desperate it’s genuinely sad to see Melvin support him

Yes, I am paid by Topical Dutasteride. Farmactia Paratti, Andorrran Pharmacy, Dr Mwamba, all of them.

That's why I discontinued using it. They stopped paying me. All of them at the same time.

13 hours ago, Hairlossresearcherexpert said:

Topical dut doesn’t work I was in a discord server for 2 years we tried every formulation every single topical dut literally took blood tests and everything. Nobody had results and it failed badly I’m sorry for everyone falling into the xyon topical dut scam they don’t even have proper double blind studies . The best topical dut solution was gonna be from a company called moogene medi or hutera which has a patent https://www.hairlosscure2020.com/category/moogene-medi/

How come it worked for me?

Maybe I am a super responder, I documented my entire journey with it and how my hair went to hell after discontinuing it.

I have also seen quite a few cases with bad side effects and crown recovery with Topical Dutasteride.

It definitely works, it just doesn't work for everyone.

Using it: 

Off it 1 year: 

Different hair lengths but still, you get the picture.

from anagenica.com

Some people do daily Topical Fin and Dutasteride Mesotherapy once a week or Topical Dutasteride once a week

Yes!

25 minutes ago, jim1973 said:

It 100% works when taken orally but because of the molecular weight (Dalton rule, over 500), there is room for questions regarding topical efficacy.  I'm not trying to be skeptical (I actually would like someone to help me find the proof as I'm interested in taking it) but yes, I am slightly skeptical due to the science behind molecular weight regarding what levels allow topical penetration and which do not (Dutasteride falls into the latter).  

That is exactly the reason why you would want to use it topically.

I got stupid at one point and applied way too much and too frequently and had pretty bad side effects.

Small dosages, not frequent, it's a long lasting drug.

1 hour ago, jim1973 said:

I see alot of people who are using topical Dutateride from Xyon stating they have no side effects, which is great.  But I haven't seen any proof that the medication actually lowers scalp DHT and actually works.  Has anyone gotten bloodwork before and after starting topical Dutasteride?  

How would a medication manufactured to lower DHT by up to 90% not lower DHT ?

I am always puzzled by this skepticism 

We will see. I am not expecting miracles to be honest but it feels good to do something about hairloss and hair thickening even if it just helps maintain it.

I will say I have seen 2 VERY good results with Trichoxidil and Saw Palmetto but I don't know if it was either or the other responsible for it.

It's only 5 EUR to add it into the mix so might as well put it in there

On 7/6/2023 at 3:12 PM, Follicle1984 said:

Good to hear mustang.

Keep us posted.

Im considering cosmerna to be honest. Along with an androgen receptor blocker. 

I was reading that even gamma linoleic acid that blocks 5AR does so irreservably at least somewhat, which does make me a little concerned for finasteride-like side effects which may linger on afew weeks after disconinuation if they occur.

Presume you've not noticed any side effects?

Update...

You've inspired me to hop back on topical saw palmetto mustang. I had such bad experiences with fin, that I just couldn't get over the fear and try topical dutasteride. I figure topical saw palmetto and pyrilutmide might work well instead.

I have heard oral saw palmetto only has about 18% of it arrive at the skin and scalp. So maybe it is a whole different beast when used topically, especially with some microneedling once a week. Will keep you posted. 

 

In terms of side effects I have noticed a slight reduction in libido, not gonna lie. Well, my girlfriend has. Last week I was quite uninterested but nothing like Finasteride of course. We still manage but I was less interested.

I also noticed slight dizziness but that could be anything (I tend to have low blood sugar, etc..)

Shedding has stopped which is good.

Saw Palmetto inhibits DHT anywhere from 38% in some studies up to 50% in tissues on others. I never had results with it orally to be honest.

Now putting 600mg in my head after dermarolling and with Trichoxidil is a different strategy for me. So far I have not much to report, no more shedding, slight drop in libido but nothing major and hair is looking pretty much the same although I "feel" it's a little thicker but it's just a perception.

I'll take pictures at 6 weeks and see if there is anything different. 

I will be doing the oil based Saw Palmetto once a week with a dermapen and the topical one daily from September onwards, both with Trichoxidil

I used their Finasteride, worse side effects I've ever had, I would suggest to avoid it.

There are many options out there made with pharma grade stuff.

Quick update: Shedding has gone up a little. I normally lose 5 hairs daily when washing it (on average, sometimes none, sometimes 3, most times 5). I shed very little hair as most is transplanted and those tend to shed even less.

The last 2 weeks it's gone up to 15 per wash and they all come from the area where I am applying the product.

Hopefully that's a good sign.

7 hours ago, jondoeuk said:

Anyone using duderma?

It's Chinese Dutasteride. Watch out, it's of very poor quality and cross contamination is likely.

18 hours ago, jim1973 said:

@mustangDid you have better results with liposomal vs trichosol?  Any differences in scalp irritation between the two?

Liposomal has alcohol and Trichosol doesn't.

Liposomal is greasier oily to apply and Trichosol is watery.

In terms of results I couldn't tell a difference.

In terms of irritation Trichosol is 100% safe while Liposomal might irritate the scalp but didn't in my case.

With Liposomal you can get away with a lower concentration as it's more efficient in delivery.

Trichosol has inherent growth factors in the vehicle itself and smells nicer, it's also cheaper

I would think Liposomal would be my pick if I would go back to a once a week. If I would want to use daily or EOD then Trichosol for sure.

A good combination would be Finasteride 0.01-0.02% daily with Trichosol and Liposomal Dutasteride 0.1% once a week or Dutasteride Mesotherapy once a week 0.01% depending on how many ml you want to apply.

0.01% Fin reduces 10% DHT in my experience. 

0.025% around 25%. If you use 2ml per application you get to the same reduction as oral finasteride or close to it.

The larger area to cover the lower concentration I would use to apply more ml and avoid sides.

3 hours ago, Etownone said:

Wow.. 

And I was thinking of getting smp for density..   Not anymore.   

But your first session looks like a home run so far.   

Do a test, it might work wonders for you

I have friends with SMP for 5 years now with no touch ups and look amazing

1 hour ago, thetdog666 said:

When you say you do it yourself do you mean dermaroll then spray topical dut on your head?

Not spray it but use a droplet  

https://www.fueclinic.com/services/treatments/dutasteride-mesotherapy/

On 6/28/2023 at 11:25 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

It definitely works, but only seems to be available in Europe. Here’s a result from just dutasteride and mesotherapy 

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-26-year-old-man-with-androgenetic-alopecia-at-the-vertex-Improvement-after-treatment_fig1_314191058

My only question is the cost, many people complain about CosmeRNAs $300 price tag, but dutasteride with mesotherapy might be even more expensive and you have to do it every 3 months. 

Cost in Europe is between 300 and 500 EUR every 3 months. (About 1.500 a year)

You can do it yourself at home with the same formula for 20 EUR a month plus a dermaroller.

It's very cheap to be honest considering a bottle is good for 3 months