Melvin- Admin

Thanks for all the congrats on the baby. He is awesome. A handful for sure but worth it. Yeah he refused to refund me. I asked 100 percent. I'd say he was there for less then 1/4 of the procedure. The incisions were really the only part of the procedure I had face to face contact with the doc other then my consult and the injections and as I aid earlier he placed the last few grafts. In alll honestly I wouldratherr have the money back. I am super nervous to have another procedure done by him. I'd love a

Great result. Who wouldn't. But at this point it's just hard to trust and if the result turn out poor again I'd have nobody else to blame but me for going back. Again the doc has been solid in regards to getting back to me after the failed procedure but I've had limited time to make a final decision. What did paleo do? I'm not familiar with the case or what ever you are referring to??

Look up his thread "warning read this if you're considering Dr.doganay" he's not even at 6 months yet, and he's basically brought the doctors clinic in to question of even being recommended here, to be honest your experience sounds a lot like his, Doctor popping in and out of the procedure, the difference though is that Dr. Doganay gives refunds, at the very least that helps. But Dr. Feriduni not standing by his work and not offering your money back is terrible. Not only did you pay for hotel+food+airfare ticket and time off work, how can he expect you to do that all over again on your own dime? Did he give an explanation as to why the procedure failed? It seems to me that it was negligence on his part. Either way I'm sure this thread has helped a lot of guys out there who were considering this doctor, no way 100% technician extractions and only 25% actual surgeon participation the true nature of a clinic shows when a procedure fails, really there is little consolation even with your money back, because what we really want is hair and those wasted grafts can never be replaced.

HTsoon- I asked for a refund and was denied. He told me he would do my second surgery for free. But you are right in the sense it's really hard for me to pony up and travel from the states back to Belgium and go under the knife per say again. He has assured me this time around he will do the entire procedure himself. What I really don't get in this forum is why more people don't mandate that the procedure should be done entirely by the doc. ive used the example before. As i stated in a dentist. If you came to me for a root canal how would you feel if I told you my assistant will be doing the procedure today. I'm just here to get you numb. I assure you my assistant is highly qualified she has gone to lots of continuing education. My guess is you would leave my office. Legally I would lose my license. If you are a doctor you go to years and years of school. I went to 4 years of college. 4 years of dental school and a 1 year residency after that. I don't care how many hours your Tecs have trained or how many surgeries they have done. In the end it should be the doctor and the doctor alone that operates or what ever we want to call it that lays his or her hands on you for the procedure.

I did feel I did the research. But truthfully the thought of someone else working on me during the procedure never occurred to me. I really didn't know that Tecs could ext grafts. I contacted spex pretty recently after the procedure with my worry about this part and he assured me it was normal and how things were done in Europe and that his Tecs were highly trained.

He refused to refund you?? What that's insane, you need to do what paleo did that's unacceptable, why on earth would you want a free procedure from a surgeon who wasted your grafts that you'll never get back, I considered feriduni but now no way. At the very least refund the patient, offering free procedures at the expense of possibly losing more grafts is ludicrous, how much of the surgery did he actually do?

Sean-

I'm 100 percent not being hard on myself. I am disappointed but honestly I can't say I was depressed in the least bit. I told my wife after the procedure that obviously I want the best result but that it was literally like having a weight lifted off my shoulder just doing the procedure. So much back and forth with the decision to do the procedure.

Tecs did all the extractions with a small manual punch. Doc had another procedure going on. He came in and numbed me. Drew the outline and made incisions for graft placement and in the very end probably put in the last few grafts. He has been good about the whole failed procedure. Offered a free procedure. For me I'm on the fence as life has gotten very busy with a new born and the ability to just take it easy for a few weeks after isn't really a possibility right now. I wanted to see more examples of failed procedures by him and how the second procedure turned out but he was only able to give one example and honestly it was one of those cases where i honestly couldn't even really think the guy needed the procedure in the first place. He had frontal thinning but legit not that bad. Often when u see those cases I feel the results look better then they are bc the person didn't have that severe of hair loss to start with. One thing I question in the thread. How is one rep able to represent all these docs? From where this thread has gone it seems like they agree on so little. I would think docs that are represented by the same person would have similar ideals and practices but maybe I'm wrong. I myself am a dentist and work with multiple other docs in a practice and we all think and practice very similarly.

Man what you described is exactly the mold that hair restoration is moving towards, multiple surgeries at the same time, techs doing the whole surgery, Dr. Doganay has gotten a lot of bad rep, but even Dr. Feriduni does this, that's not acceptable, if I were you, I wouldn't risk precious grafts on a surgeon that already failed, ask for a refund and go elsewhere, and make sure you ask the doctor valid questions like how much of the procedure are you actually involved in, hoe long have your techs been working with you, and are these the same techs that do surgeries with you or are they different techs every surgery? Remember paid representatives have vested interest in the clinic, do your own research speak to real patients with no monetary incentives good luck man I hope this gets resolved.

Every clinic in that region follows the same procedure. The doctors are not hands on the whole procedure. I also had consultations with two other clinics prior to my surgery and both clinics told me that the doctor will supervised the extraction and will implant the front line himself. There is no way that one person can do all the extractions and implantation's himself. It's just impossible. I believe Paleo here is determined in his vendetta against the doctor and doing his best burying him but believe me, the state of mind this guy is in, It would have been any other doctor he would have gone to. Sadly Dr Hakan was the one to take the case and now pay the price. This has turned into a shit show and the whole thread has turned into Paleo's " detective work " in attacking the doctor, which has nothing to do with his medical personal case. By the way Paleo, what happened to your redness that you have 15 pages complaining about ?? Is it gone now just like everyone else told you to ??

Nobody expects a doctor to do the implantation themselves, however it should be expected that the doctor for perform at least 50% of the extraction and 100% of the recipient sites, the implantation of the grafts at that point could be done by the technicians, also and most importantly these technicians should be technicians that are always performing the surgeries with the Doctor, it shouldn't be different technicians working on different patients doing basically the whole surgery, that may be popular in turkey and India but by no means should it be considered the gold standard in running a hair restoration clinic, as a matter of fact that's considered a hair mill where sales is the objective instead of quality and patient care.

Sadly, this is becoming the norm with a lot of clinics, as patients and consumers we should not except this at all, there is no consistency no quality control in technician based clinics, personally, I would rather Dr. Doganay raise the price per graft and maintain consistency and quality rather than shift to a technician based practice where sales is more important than quality and consistency.

" I feel like this clinic literally messed with the wrong patient, but I think we need to raise questions as patients and consumers, this industry..."

 

A clinic should not mess with ANY client. Period. They had it coming. Paleo's case still might turn out well but the COUNTLESS poor reviews from other AHD patients that came before him warrant the scrutiny the clinic is under now.

 

I have not seem any other clinic on this forum with so many poor growth cases - particular on one side only. It's clearly a transection issue done by techs.

 

When this clinic first got recommended the mods were misled and under the impression that the the doc did all the work himself.

 

If you're going with this clinic you're taking a gamble, depending on who your tech de jour is. Luck should have nothing to do with your surgery. This clinic being recommended would undermine the credibility of this site.

 

Based on other good results I think doganay is talented but there is a weakest link in their process chain that's causing the problems

I agree, I'm not saying a clinic should get away with poor results or treating patients that way, my point was that this clinic is being singled out, but so many other clinics engage in this behavior and get away with it, that's why we shouldn't focus as consumers on just this one clinic, this change should be demanded from the industry as a whole.

I can't help but feel kinda bad for this clinic, just because I don't think they're doing anything different from a lot of clinics, there's a famous FUE practitioner that can't be mentioned on this site, that got in to law suits got busted for staff promoting his clinic pretending to be patients, and nothing's happened to his practice, I feel like this clinic literally messed with the wrong patient, but I think we need to raise questions as patients and consumers, this industry has always had problems with ethics and code of conduct from snake oil sales man, onion juice pushers, it's an industry built on predatory sales pitches preying on the insecurity of mostly young men, let this be a cautionary tale to potential patients and clinics alike, questions must be asked and answers must be provided,starting with honest review of hairloss and donor capacity with a discussion regarding preventive measures. Second how much of the surgery is being performed by the surgeon? and what type of training do the techs have? Are they fly by night techs for hire? These things must be discussed prior o agreeing to have surgery or prior to agreeing to operate on a patient, this what is best for the patient and practice in my opinion.

Sam everything you've described is normal, donor shock loss may have occurred and can take up to six months to grow back, donor area discomfort is also normal as the nerves are healing, it should be getting better each month, the transplanted hair will first begin to show as a thin vellus hair and will continually thicken as the months progress, it will fully mature between 12-18 months, you're only 3 months so patience is key.

This is the way I look at it, the money you'll lose from a flight you'll make back, but the grafts that could be lost you'll never get back.

I am on lipogaine and regenepure. The reason why I am not willing to risk propecia is becuase I was on saw palmetto and I got ED and there is nothing more depressing than having a flaccid snake in your hand trying to make it come alive when there is a beautiful girl under you. Was it psychological or physiological? Who knows but it did take some time to be able to get rid off the sides and I figured propecia would be the same or even worse and I am not willing to take the risk again and maybe stay that way for good. And I clearly articulated this to Dr Doganay.

 

I was thinking about trying topical fin, but then I read that it goes systemic and works basically the same way as the oral version..

 

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more. With both statements. And longer hair can indeed conceal your true hairloss situation. I believe that is why it is essential to check for miniaturization and donor capacity before any procedure. It is not that hard you just take a look at the patient's scalp with a special magnification tool. I think recommending HT and placing a hairline without this information is pure negligence.

Topical fin I'm not sure its efficacy but it will give you systematic effects just like RU58841, but less likely and you can tweak the ml and how often you take it, unfortunately what's done has been done, best thing for you to do is map out a long term plan, speak to a good reputable physician and figure out something long term, given your limited donor and high Norwood, they may need to remove some grafts in your current hairline (if they grow) and rebuild a more mature hairline, are you willing to try SMP and body hair for the crown? These might be viable options, I was pretty much in your shoes, but even worse cause most of minituarized hair had fallen out prior to surgery, and I have a limited donor, you can still make it work you just have to be resourceful and make no more mistakes, I was lucky that my first surgeon was ethical and placed 1,800 grafts an inch behind the hairline I had so my midscalp was addressed, now I went ahead and filled in my existing hairline knowing the risks, now for my lateral humps I will attempt another 800 grafts risking slight donor depletion to make sure I don't get an island of hair, and the crown will be SMP and body hair just for coverage. I'll probably do smp to the donor area as well so I could keep my sides shaved at a zero without the depletion being too obvious.

I have taken propecia orally and topically. the topical version I took in my early 30's and I had no sexual side effects. but the oral version gave me sexual dysfunction. I am on neither right now and am following a very strict anti inflammatory diet and am not experiencing any hair loss and my hair is looking a lot thicker that last few months. even my donor area has gotten thicker.

 

I have been there- being with a beautiful girl for the first time and not being able to get an erection. its a dreaded feeling. I don't wish that on anyone. its a very tough decision cause I love love love having hair. but at the end of the day, my penis wins. it usually wins. lol

 

not to derail the thread but I take 3,000 mgs fish oil a day. 2000 mg of vitamin C a day split into equal doses taken 12 hours apart and 600 mgs of NAC. I really feel the the vitamin c and NAC have helped a lot in my case

I experienced ED with finasteride when I was 21 didn't even know it was the meds I just took it without looking up the sides, typical 21 year old move, I visited the dr and told him I was on fin he told me the list of sides I was freaked out lucky it wasn't permanent, then in my mid 20's I took dutasteride cause I was desperate, I didn't experience ED but I had retrograde ejaculation, it was the weirdest thing ever, I love hair but I pick my penis every time over hair, do you mind PM'ng me your diet?

But on a side note, paleo why don't you at least try the meds at a very low dose every other day? I started off on proscar cut in to 1.25mg if you buy propecia you can cut them in half and take 0.5mg it might not give you sides, if you get them stop taking it simple as that. I don't take it because I personally get sides, but you may not get sides, at the very least you should be on lipogaine and regenpure shampoo.. The before picture you posted is the biggest reason why in encourage every guy to shave their head before deciding to have surgery, one to see if they could accept looking bald, and two shaving your head really shows your hairloss especially once it's growing back, there's no layering effect anymore and it will reveal your true hairloss.

I reckon once you start growing the top out its going to look pretty dense, for 1 month, already looks good, lucky you didn't have to deal with the whole looking worse before better thing happy growing:D

wow home run results, generally those of south Asian descent have fantastic hair characteristics, for less than 4K grafts that's quite the result, are you taking finasteride or minoxidil?

Hey Stinger, any updates?

Looking good for 6 months why not toppik instead of dermmatch?

I do agree some clinics in some countries where there are lack of regulations may be risky. However, this is two fold. There are docs that are marketed where they may leave the room to work on another patient for another procedure when a tech takes over the scalp and extracts due donor. Some even do this in North America and charge an inflated premium. Then there are also docs in some of these unregulated countries who do the entire procedure themselves at a very low rate (including recipient zones and donor extractions). Those docs are challenging the practices at clinics charging premium rates who pass it off to techs to do extractions etc. in North America or other western nations.

 

Most patients are now asking important questions when picking a doc, who is doing my procedure? What is the clinic's surgical protocol? Does technician work constitute paying higher prices? Doctors are marketed across forums, not techs so when you go to a clinic are you going for the doc expecting the marketed name working on you or some tech doing surgical work? Hairloss is a serious issue, it is time docs have careful surgical protocols for their patients and understand that risks to patient safety should be completely avoided.

 

You dont want to end up with low yields, permanent shockloss, damaged donors, uneven work and etc. you don't want to be that person.

 

I just hope doctors really do their job to help a person and not try to speed up, work wreckless, in exchange for higher profits. Patient safety and concerns should be number one priority. Break a procedure up if you have to, in irder to be mindful of prolonged exposure/graft death.

 

Again, wrecklessness exists in some that are marketed and those that are not. This goes for both countries with high regulation and thise that lack it.

I agree 100% this doesn't just occur in foreign countries, it occurs in North America however at twice the price.

Stig

 

I disagree with you that Dr. should do all procedures but I am willing that Dr. should carry out implantation by himself. We are strongly discussing amongst ourselves. beside our report to the Bill We will also inform this issue with forum's administration

 

I would like to draw your attantion that most of the Doctor's has their own technicians that they do both extraction and placing grafts. And they are recommended This is a team work also we can see that there are new extraction tools discovered from some clinics but still those tools should use with experience Technician or Doctor.

 

We should more consider about how much experience that technician has. Can you please go and check paloe's donor again

 

This thread has been created to not get help this thread has been created for attacking because our patient wanted to kick out doctor from this forum I am strongly believe If he went to with another clinic He wouldn't get fully satisfy As example he is still on early stage to discuss about his result but he is trying to find out a gabs to damage Doctor's reputation with giving false information even I proved that he had been informed about his future hair loss in the patient form. I wasn't acting as seller representative I spent my 2 hours with him to informed him his hair loss cycle Doctor also corrected me during consultation.

 

I agree with you that we should prepare one more form about medication issue.

 

 

In the end we admitted some our bad result had been appeared from 2013-2014 undisputed We did refund for all of them at least make them a little happy.

Technicians doing 100% of the extractions is not good, especially when there are different technicians doing extractions, swooping said he had two males do his extractions, paleo had two females, and although paleos results are premature at 5 months there should be clear growth which there's not, this inconsistency is large in part due to the fact that different technicians are performing extractions and implanting the hair, in Dr. Doganays YouTube video he clearly states that he does 100% of the implantation with the choi implanter now it turns out he's only doing some of it, due to this fact I feel that the clinic should no longer be recommended, when operating a clinic that is mainly technician based results will vary greatly and consistent results are not expected, because of the fact that different technicians are doing procedures much like commercial chain clinics.

Although, you say the technicians have been professionally trained, skill set will vary from technician to technician, that's why I feel it is imperative that the surgeon play a large role in the procedure, i don't see a problem with a senior tech assisting in the extraction process and separation of the grafts, but creation of the recipient sites must be 100% done by the physician, if the clinic goes back to performing surgeries that got them the awesome results that made them famous, then after a few years of consistency it would be okay to review for recommendation, but at this point the clinic should not be recommended. I think I speak for everyone when I say money is not the issue, finite grafts are priceless and once they've been wasted there's no getting them back unlike money.

In my opinion, incorrect donor assessment and future hairloss assessment is minor to the real issues, which are that he does not do any extractions, and he utilizes different technicians which will yield inconsistent results and most of all, he only implants a little over half of the grafts, so essentially his practice is 75% technician ran, this absolutely unacceptable, one could argue that paleo should've researched his own hairloss and had a better plan for himself, and that's partially true, but what can not be excused in anyway shape or form, is that the surgery itself is being carried out almost entirely by technicians and different ones at that, which means even the most knowledgable patient who has a plan mapped out will not receive consistent results. The creation of the recipient sites requires anatomical knowledge of the follicles to ensure the follicles are placed at the right angle that mimics the patients natural hair, artistry is required in the creation of recipient sites, that's why the best physicians don't simply dump grafts on the head, how on earth could this be left to a technician to do?? My vote is that the clinic not be recommended anymore, which is sad cause I though this clinic were at the very top of FUE but in light of the recent discoveries my mind has completely changed.

the first one 100% techs extraction,50%techs planting the grafts.The second 50%techs extraction,and 50% tech implanting.

Did Dr. Doganay create the recipient sites first? that's the most important aesthetic portion of the surgery that's what will give you the angle and direction of the follicle to make it look natural, I can't see tech's being allowed to do this, if so thats terrible.

2,500 may be to little for you I don't know, have you been examined by a hair restoration physician, hair characteristics skin to hair color contrast, and head size all play a role in how many grafts you'll need, just because 2,500 grafts may be to small for someone doesn't necessarily mean its not enough for everyone.

Generally though 2,500 grafts should be enough to cover the hairline to midscalp, Dr. Konoir's result was legit because he did not use favorable lighting and he also did a topview shot which really shows you what the results are and his patient was almost completely bald.

Here's Dr. Rahal's 2,500 grafts to the front to midscalp again this patient is even balder than Dr. Dieps patient was, so I don't see how you think Dr. Dieps results are unbelievable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXnYXMBYtVk

Why did nurses perform the extractions? And why did differrent technicians perform swooping's as opposed to paleo? Also, did the technicians implant the hair with the choi implanter? Overall these are the most concerning things as potential patients the community needs consistency, and from what's been presented by paleo and swooping it does not seem consistent.

I think you're hung up on something petty, he probably meant to say midscalp I don't know what doctors results you've been seeing but 2,500 grafts to the front third and midscalp with good yield should give good density, remember the graft count doesn't matter, what matters is the yield i.e growth of the grafts, nothing out of the ordinary at all, is there any agenda against Dr. Diep?

Here's Dr. Konoir result 2,500 grafts to the front and midscalp, notice this guy was almost completely bald, now look at the density and coverage he got. Again I don't know who's before and after a you've been looking at but nothing screamed too good to be true about Dr. Dieps results.

2500 Grafts by Dr. Konior - Hair Loss Surgery - Before and After Gallery

I'm gutted for you bro, this is absolutely unacceptable, 6,500 grafts should've given you good density in the front and some coverage in the back, I will say though that it's an improvement to how you were before, but this doctor wasted about 5,000 grafts which is unacceptable. Who performed the surgery techs or the doctor? Were they different techs each day?

What a load of bull, if the doctor didn't think your hairloss was stable why would he operate? I've been on minoxidil has two transplants and so far so good, sure finasteride may work better, but minoxidil is a proven treatment that's why it's FDA approved.

What seems suspicious is that all of the sudden these accounts are created and literally the first post are on this thread in defense of a doctor or to highlight the doctors results, doesn't that seem strange? Swooping who is a legit patient already created a thread highlighting his results, he's been inquisitive but not defensive, he also has his own thread he didn't create an account to post his results on someone else's thread, in light of the recent discoveries this is odd to say the least.

It's disheartening I had actually considered this clinic at the top of my list in FUE, what's more sad is that I still believe the doctor is good, but something along the way completely fell off, the exchange for quantity over quality seems apparent. Unfortunately, in this business quality is everything, when you're dealing with finite grafts it's imperative you get it right the first time. Keeping a skilled team is also important, but if different technicians are being used every surgery where is the consistency? These are things that should be demanded of a hair restoration clinic that is recommended on this site.

The dude07 for someone who went to college in the U.S your writing in English is poor, "but I want him to be my doctor" if you're speaking past tense it should be *wanted, all in all this post smells like 3 day old fish left in the sun it continues to look worse for the clinic.