Yaz89

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Triple post deleted! Damn my iphone!

Swoop, I am not talking about the graph posted in the link but the general conception of hair transplants. Not many people will research but are more concerned about the cost. How many people actually come on these forums? Thousand a month maybe more?

Again, last night my friends were talking about hair transplants and the costs popped in again. 'Yaz spend too much'. One friend said 'oh my cousin paid 1800 euros'. And I have seen my friends cousin; nothing special about his result. They do not understand the pro and cons, the various techniques, the different punches for graft removal or the different salines! Like my friends, there are other thousands of people who have the same conception about hair transplants.

I think Dr Feller needs to give them a good lesson and a good hiding for them to realise!

Photo didn't post! But here you go:

Nearly 2 years post of

And that is why FUE marches on.. Both supply & demand are heavily changing in favour for FUE. This will only continue to do so until FUT will go the way of the “dodo”, like Spencer founder of the IAHRS said it in one of his last shows.

FUE is only gaining popularly thanks to the all the hair mills offering FUE especially from novice surgeons, tech run clinics (Dr M anyone!) and inexperienced clinics using micro-motors. FUT will never go away. FUE might surpass on the above points I have stated. How many surgeons are there offering FUE to the highest standard possible? Not many? All the proven FUE surgeons charge a premium which the common working man simply at times cannot afford. The diamonds such as Erdogan, Bhatti, Vories, lorenzo, Keser and the others are simply too expensive to the common man. (Bhatti in Indian standards is quite expensive). Thus the rise of FUE thanks to budget, amatuer run clinics whose patients hardly research and only think about the cost but not the quality!

For example, I paid nearly 7k in British pounds. England is well known for high living costs, low wages. When friends, family and people who I knew found out I paid this amount; they were like "fcuk why did you pay so much when you could have done it for 1200 pounds!". They did not understand I had researched for nearly 3 years (still am) and I chose an reliable surgeon. My result speaks for it self. Meanwhile, 6 of my friends used whatclinic.com and chose the cheapest clinics in Turkey. And guess what! Horrible donor extractions, donor destroyed by micro-motors, I was told all the nurses did the work; the end result? Little growth, lack of yield and density. And permanent shock loss to non-transplanted areas. How do I know this? Thanks to my 5 years of research!

FUE will only increase in popularity thanks to these rogue clinics scattered around the globe. But the diamonds are rare. There are not many Feller's, Lindey's, Bhatti's, Erdogan's, lorenzo's or Vories's out there.

All sounds good except they dont answer emails ive been trying for two weeks and no response.

I emailed too a few last week. Their communication is poor. I send a message from here and he said gave me a email address. I emailed there last week and no reply either. Shame be be losing potential patients

Bill, I believe this doctor should be recommended. He is doing extremely excellent work. His protocol regarding graft survival is outstanding. I vote for him!

HT,

 

First, I'm very pleased you were able to find a procedure that fit your needs.

 

However, you say we need to let patients make up their minds. I ask, how do they do this? They need to be given the facts. Plain and simple. If we don't have these very important conversations -- which you're a part of, patients won't be able to make the right decisions. Like I've said before, telling the truth isn't always popular or sexy. But it needs to be out there.

 

Having said that, let me address your points:

 

1) Your challenge is to find a roughly 1,800 graft strip case on a diffuse NW 4a to 5 patient that rivals your results. I timed myself. I spent 1 minute and 30 seconds reviewing the "results posted by physicians" category of the site and came up with the following:

 

Patient with a similar pattern; 2,000 grafts (very close to yours); done via strip:

 

 

 

 

 

All credit goes to the very talented Dr Scott Alexander for that one.

 

2) Your point about people noticing your friend's scar. Here's the problem with this answer. You say you have 1 friend who had strip and now has an issue with the scar. Your "sample size" is 1. I had a patient in today who had 2 previous strip procedures with a chain clinic, scarred poorly, still cuts his hair the exact same way he always has, and has never had one issue, comment, or problem with the scar. He's not happy with the growth in the front, but has never even thought about the scar. Now my sample size is 1 as well, and our arguments have the same validity. What if I told you that I see that same patient in the OR and consultation room 10 times a week? See why my opinion of the gravity of the scar may be a bit different?

 

3) Your donor. Yes, your scars -- though still visible -- are cosmetically acceptable on the surface. But imagine taking all those little dots you see on the surface, multiplying it by two, and pushing this network of scar under your skin. This is what your scalp is like now post-FUE. What would happen if your results didn't grow as planned? Now we have to go in and try to steal another 1,800. But now the grafts are ripping, transection is increasing because we aren't getting the right tissue feedback, and you're absolutely not going to get another 1,800 growing.

 

4) Which brings me to this point: the "crippled argument." I stand by this. FUE cripples your race horse right out of the gate. No two ways about it. The grafts are twisted, ripped, crushed, skeletonized and grow around 20% less than the same grafts taken out by strip. If you have a horse with 4 legs, and I tie one of them off and make him run on 75% capacity before the gates even open, what do you call this? Crippled before the race even starts. Again, I'm not going to win any friends here. But it's the truth. And I'm okay with that.

 

5) I'd actually have a lot less headaches and more money if my practice was all FUE. But it's not the right way to do things. And you're right, there is a time and a place for strip and FUE. But I don't think FUE's place is ever for sessions this big.

 

Here's my philosophy: If you need some small patchwork, some refinement somewhere (and BTW, I really don't like using FUE for hairline refinement because I don't think the quality of the hair growth is suitable for the most visible region of the scalp), sure, FUE is fine. If you need a lot of grafts that will actually grow and may need procedures down the road. FUT is your man. Spoiler alert: you will have a scar. Unfortunately, I don't have a magic wand. I'd love to give guys Brad Pitt's hair with no signs I ever touched their scalp daily, but my dark arts magic isn't at that level yet ; ).

 

HOWEVER, you bring up a very valid point: some guys just absolutely can't live with the strip scar. And I get it. I'm not here to bully these guys into a procedure that will leave them unhappy. So here's what I tell them: the only reason to do an FUE over a strip is the linear scar. Otherwise, strip pummels FUE without question. Better growth, better quality, and virgin donor left for more procedures. So, this should be your go to. If you cannot deal with the scar, do the procedure as a modified FUE (mFUE). This way, you won't have the scar, BUT we have grafts we can rely on AND the donor is less wrecked. For those who really want to "have their cake and eat it too," this is THE option.

 

6) Those FUE results. Yes, those results look good. And I'd never stand here and say you cannot get a good result with FUE, because that's not true. We've all seen examples of it. However, the problem is that for every 10 ANY doctor -- let me say that again: ANY doctor -- does, you'll get 1-2 that are great, 5-6 that are okay, and 1-2 that just flat out don't work. This is why FUE patients are screened and selected carefully. Now, back to those results: they look good, but they would have looked fuller and thicker as a strip. And I'll go tit-for-tat with you on FUE versus strip home run cases all day long. For every 1 FUE "wow" result you find, I'll show you 5 "wow" strip results.

 

I hope this is taken in the spirit in which I intended. Like I said before, the things I'm saying aren't hip, fun, sexy, or exciting. But neither is science or medicine/surgery. And as a doctor, I feel the need to say these things. Patients need all the facts available to them before making a decision. And I think we can all respect that.

 

Thank you for participating in this discussion. Hopefully you find it as fascinating as I do. And believe it or not, we really are helping some guys make the right decision here. Keep it up!

This is 2000 grafts! Damn. I had 2400 fue and nothing close to this

looks fine. Donor will be back to normal in a few weeks

take it easy. The easy bit is over. Waiting is the long game

JFK had awesome hair, so did his brothers Bobby and Ted. I admire these guys and they my hero's. I literally have read every book about them and have seen old videos. When Ted Kennedy died a few years ago, he still was a NW0! Funny their father was a NW7!

Each one to their own. Make your choice, research and take the plunge! But not many reputable surgeons are out there. Just google in what clinic and 255 hair transplant clinics pop in Turkey. But how many are reputable? Not many

No doubt he is good. But again how many fue surgeons do all the work themselves from extracting to implanting. Plus how many use Dr Lorenzo's tool; the Lion Implanter. I believe his success lies entirely in his tools and doing most of the work himself. I might be wrong as a few have said he uses techs now.

My fue doctor is also well established. I would rate him top 5 in the list of fue surgeons. He has given me an excellent start to my transplant journey, has given me my self confidence back and overall is a kind hearted person. But no surgeon can predict the end result, the scarring or the final outcome. But I do believe fut gives the better grafts

Well where to begin? From my thread, many would know I am looking for a second surgery to gain a great head of hair. But I am concerned about the scarring which results from fue. No matter which surgeon you go for fue, even if they are the best there will always be scarring, donor will look like shreds etc.

I did fue because I always did the 0 grade fade look. Well, I have not done this type of cut for a while because my fue scarring is partially visible. I know it will be much worse if I did another fue. It is true, the more grass you rip, the less will be left. Anyways, I have matured as a man and sporting a more gentleman type of hair style

. Dr Feller mentioned, guys who had FUT hardly cut their hair short. Now I have to keep longer hair just for my previous transplant. Again, Dr Feller stated that totally eliminates the idea of having a transplant.

I say once again both methods have their flaws. Neither is perfect. I believe even fue is more suited to smaller cases such as 2000 grafts. Fue is a scar surgery. The more grafts taken the more scars. It does depend on donor capacity

Thats why I am looking into MFUE. And have an consultation with Dr Lindsey in October at London. See you there Dr Feller if you come along!

That is great news Doc. It should always be surgeons discussing with each other the pro and cons of the science behind hair transplant techniques. It takes years just to practise general medicine as a GP. Even more, to qualify as an excellent hair transplant doctor. Keep it up doc!

Of course these guys won't go public, they will lose patients and a ton of money.

Dr Feller, I have to admit you have converted me favouring FUE to FUT. I always have thought fue is more superior to fut. But from my own research (I have been researching the last 5 years) with fue vs fut, I have came to the conclusion fut IS the gold standard! And I, for one had FUE

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Buzzing your hair preop makes it look thinner. Why is it so hard to grasp? This result is nowhere near as impressive as what Bobman had done. The doctors you mentioned have never posted anything near this, or Hasson and Wong's earlier results. FUE just doesn't give that density or naturalness on men with significantly bald areas (unless the patient has very thick hair, in which case FUT would do well too). People are looking at results from guys with ideal donor hair and saying "Aha, FUE has proved it can do as well as FUT". Not so...

Bobmans donor was beyond average. In fact he had super donor which not every fut patient has! Buzzing makes hair look thinner? Not really. A balding or thinning person would not be able to pull this Beckham look. I leave it for now. We had a good discussion! Good luck if you chose fue. I seen your pics in another thread and feel fue would suit you.

That is an epic result for Bobman.

 

KO, biases aside, based on the pics you have posted before I think FUE would be a good option for you as I recall you liked to keep your hair at the back quite short ?

No doubt it is an excellent result. Like I said both methods fue and fut are just lay-by terms. Its all about the doctors experience and their ability on their chosen methods be it fut or fue

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Here is Bobman's website:

Hair Restoration Websites

 

I asked you to post a result from one of your favorite surgeon that exceeded this, and you did not. The one you posted shows a guy with his head buzzed down preop, which makes hair look thinner than it is, his hair is very visibly coarse, and he obviously has native hair in the thinning pattern. In other words, the patient had good characteristics which is the most important variable in getting a transplant.

What does it matter if he was buzzed pre op. Most people when their baldness becomes apparent they buzz. His post op pics clearly show the difference and my doc managed with less grafts. Keep riding your tail on Bobmans results. Thats just one result only. FUE docs have many times managed to convert cue balls into head balls. Once again you have proved your ignorance correct. Its all about the donor hair; the characteristic, the coarseness and with FUE cherry picking the best grafts which FUT cannot do. I hope Mickey85 sees my posts and will agree with me.

You haven't had a transplant your self and with 3k posts doesn't make you a expert. I aint a expert myself but the eyes never lie

Thats all you do when your proved wrong. Refute as usual

Show Bobmans pre ops then. How do you know this patients hair was coarse? How do you know his level of baldness? You asked for a result and I gave one.