Rick055

Products like Spectral DNC claim to use minoxidil sulfate (I think) and it's supposed to be more powerful than other forms of minoxidil. There are people on ebay selling minox sulfate, too. But after some searching, the cheapest I can find minoxidil sulfate for is $25.00 per mg, meaning a single ml of a 5% solution would cost more than $1,250 just to produce. Is my math wrong or am I missing something?

The "Big 3" are finasteride, minoxidil and Nizoral 2% EOD. Everything else is trim. Potentially useful trim, but trim.

Why not have another HT from a world class doctor to address the frontal hair line and then pack in the biofiber behind it?

It depends on the product. Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor meaning it inhibits the enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT, believed to exert its effects both in the serum and in target tissue (prostate, scalp, etc...) Other "anti-androgens" can be used topically (spironolactone, flutamide, azelaic acid, etc...) to attempt to block DHT solely in the scalp.

Just to add another opinion on the matter... I originally began TRT with transdermals (first androgel, then compounded) and, per testing, my serum DHT skyrocketed. Though it has been noted that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular activity (i.e. just because there's more in your blood does not necessarily translate into prostate issues, etc...) I can tell you that while I was on transdermals my MPB was greatly increased. I have since switched to IM injections and my serum DHT is lower (just over top of range, vs 3X top of range on TDs) and my hair loss has clearly slowed. I am fairly stable. I am preparing to begin propecia in the hopes that I still have some follicles left that merely shed the hair. So the first point is that, all else equal, transdermal testosterone preparations raise DHT more relative to IM injections. The reason for this is because of the interaction with 5AR in the skin. Presumably, the mpore DHT, the more the hiar loss, if one is genetically predisposed. That said, and important for DeWayne to understand, even a rise in testosterone (which is also an androgen, albeit more anabolic than androgenic) hair loss is possible. DHT merely has a higher affinity for the androgen receptor and exerts a more pronounced effect that T does. Said another way, a rise in testosterone, even with NO additional rise in DHT can contribute to hair loss. That said, 1.25 mg finasteride M-W-F may be enough in your case to stave off hairloss related to same. Your DHT may have been low to begin with, also and you may be knocking it down enough with fin so that it's not an issue. But PGP makes an excellent point: without labs, you'll never know. It's also why, in another post, I mention I feel - even on fin alone - it's worthwhile to have baseline T, DHT and E2 labs. You can't have too much information when using a powerful endocrine disruptor like finasteride.

I think this is a complicated question. Testosterone has two metabolites, estrogen and dihydrotestosterone. By preventing the conversion of T to DHT, it stands to reason that testosterone could increase. It also stands to reason that E2 could increase (and in fact seems a likely culprit in some of the feminizing side effects of finasteride like gynocomastea). Further, if T did increase, it is possible that it would only be short term until negative feedback inhibition occurs via leutinizing hormone (HPT axis). It is further possible that if E2 increased it would be a double edged sword, as this could also negatively effect the HPT axis by saturating the hypothalmus with E2. In such a case, E2 could increase causing a subsequent decrease in T. This would not only change the T to E2 ratio, it could also further lower absolute T. In fact this is the reason drugs like clomid work to raise testosterone; they block receptor sites for E2. Some men have more aromatase (the enzyme responsible for converting T to E2, just as 5AR converts T to DHT) which could aggravate any estrogen potentiated side effects. I think it makes sense for physicians who prescribe finasteride to take baseline labs for testosterone, DHT and estradiol. I am also of the opinion that concurrent use of an aromatase inhibitor like arimidex could be worth exploring in such men, under the care of a licensed physician. Needless to say, I am not a doctor and nothing I say constitutes medical - or any - advice, but is informational only. Just my unprofessional opinion.

Sides are precisely the reason why. At 1 mg per day, I have had some sides in the past. I was hoping to minimize them, though I guess I could just as easily dose it at E2D and see what happens.

Are there any people who take finasteride every third day? Does the half life of the drug allow it to be dosed as such? I want to take 1 mg propecia E3D as .33 mg per day should be almost as effective as 1 mg per day; if things go well, I will move to E2D. Thanks!

LOOKS AWESOME!! I just can't wait to get one. IMO, that's perfect coverage for the crown. I like a slight "thinning" look; I think it's age appropriate. And you have 7 more months of growth, besides.

My own 2 cents is it is certainly plausible and I can't figure out a motivation for dishonesty. I have heard some people have good success with topical fin/dut. He isn't promoting some proprietary "goat weed" formula he discovered in his backyard...

I have been using the foam for years with excellent results and notice no shedding. Your mileage may vary

I checked out the site and it says this about the product: "Note: Hair Loss Cream does not work in cases of Male Pattern Baldness (baldness due to genetic reasons)." At least they're honest But I'm trying to figure out what kind of "hair loss" it would help, then. Maybe it prevents trichotillomania?!?

Revita is, quite simply, the best shampoo I have ever used. I believe in the efficacy of ketaconazole, I like having the other ingredients, and it does not leave my hair dry. Further, it makes my hair look a little thicker, IMO.

No problem, my friend. Plunge as in propecia again, sticking it out for the year and see what happens. My libido is 100% now. I am considering a future HT.

I think you were replying to me. The forum was the original Propecia Side effects group that started on Yahoo and now has it's own web site. The Dr Was John Crisler on the forum and he was working with Dr Eugene Shippen. I never had any sides unless increased sex dive is a BAD side effect, lol I would say 90% of what I lost has grown back so far NG2GB, I'm thinking of taking the plunge.

Not correct; I had the libido sides. Dr. Rasman's forum, baldingblog; I posted the link on the first page.

possibly. they're conducting clinical studies on avodart as a hair med now, I think. If finasteride gives me cause for concern, avodart scares the heck out of me.

HoldingOn, That's probably the best explanation of the process that I've ever heard. I have to think on that. Thanks for the post.

Jobi, if you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Late 30s or older?

I completely agree. To be honest, it would be ideal for me to take propecia when I get a ht because I still have quite a significant amount of native hair left. So, I could get an outstanding result if I kept it + transplanted hair. That's it in a nutshell for me, too. I have a bunch of native hair left and really WANT to take propecia. I'm just scared to death of the possible sides and wonder if all I can *reasonably* expect to get is a five year window, do I even chance the sides? We can put a man on the moon, can't someone just fix this?!? I might need to get a hobby because I spend way too much time vacillating on finasteride.

I think the center of the bell curve is just after 5 years. At five years, it's close to baseline and Merck didn't extend the study. As that doc said, the suggestion is that after five years, your below baseline, for the average guy. Again, I agree, some might get 10 years on it. Some may get 1 year. Some may get stones. But it wasn't even until I started researching that I discovered that propecia wasn't basically an "indefinite" thing. I always thought that if you took it - although you might not grow hair (rogaine's for that) - you would maintain your hair. So, for me, at the least, the calculus changes. Are the potential side effects worth only "possibly maintaining" for five years? What am I gaining, really? Plus, if I'm a non-responder to growth, I have no way to tell if it's working. I just know I'm maintaining my hair. But how do I even know it was the propecia that made me maintain my hair? And again, another coalition doc said his experience seemed to be 5 - 10 years. I'd love to get another docs take on this.

I don't think you'll get any doctor to confirm that stopping propecia for a few days would have such a dramatic effect that you'd notice, especially if it was an occasional excursion, given your 11 years and the tissue half life of the drug.

From a coalition doc: http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/08/25/if-propecia-stops...d-can-hair-loss-get/ Another coalition doc basically gave me the same response in an email (5 - 10 years). I really do think propecia can do a great job for some. But, IMHO, it's "The Emporer's New Clothes". Remember that story when you were a kid? The 5 year result is not that far above baseline (is it statistically significant?) that I think I could justify the risk. And - the best part - how do I even know if it's working to maintain my hair or if my loss just slowed on its own, which has been suggested to happen around your late 30's early 40's. I don't, but I have to keep taking it. Of course, if the propecia does stop working, you could always switch to avodart. Let's start blocking type II and have a six month half life.

NG2GB, I have spoken to a number of docs (one of them coalition) who have said after about 5 years it loses its efficacy (one said 5 - 10 years). On another blog (by a coalition doc) I have read the same thing. I have also read (again, by a coalition doc) that hair loss slows down in your late 30's early 40's. If the best I am doing by using propecia is slowing down this process by a handful of years (which has been suggested to slow down on its own anyways), is it REALLY worth the risk? If it's one in one hundred you lose your libido, do you take that chance?!?

It seems a number of people think that finasteride loses its efficacy after some number of years. If it is only going to stave off hair loss for 5 years, what's the point? And if the mechanism by which it works is by lowering DHT, why does it cease to work? Is it not lowering DHT in 5 years anymore??? Hmmm.....