Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 19, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 19, 2008 It seems a number of people think that finasteride loses its efficacy after some number of years. If it is only going to stave off hair loss for 5 years, what's the point? And if the mechanism by which it works is by lowering DHT, why does it cease to work? Is it not lowering DHT in 5 years anymore??? Hmmm..... 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member its752 Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 rick055, The whole no-effect thing after 5 years doesn't make total sense to me, but I would like to know about it if it is a fact, but even if it works for only 5 years or so, I'll take the temporary imprvement over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 One of the Docs who post regularly (I think it was either Dr.Bheener or Dr. Mejia) said, that it typically loses it's efficacy after 10 YEARS... Doc said that he has seen some of his patients who have been on it after about 10 years, begin to lose more hair. BUT it doesn't just all kick in at once and you lose your hair over night. but rather, MPB slowly takes effect again. I would take the 10+ years of more hair as well. Doc didn't state what the reasons were for it losing it's efficacy. I would ASSUME that because it doesn't block 100% of the DHT that the DHT slowly, yet eventually runs it's course and still has it's effect on those follicles which are predispositioned to fall out anway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 NG2GB, I have spoken to a number of docs (one of them coalition) who have said after about 5 years it loses its efficacy (one said 5 - 10 years). On another blog (by a coalition doc) I have read the same thing. I have also read (again, by a coalition doc) that hair loss slows down in your late 30's early 40's. If the best I am doing by using propecia is slowing down this process by a handful of years (which has been suggested to slow down on its own anyways), is it REALLY worth the risk? If it's one in one hundred you lose your libido, do you take that chance?!? 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 I had never heard the 5 year number before. Do you have a reference I could read? Which doc's stated this? MAYBE, it only begins to lose it's efficacy after 5+ years, but one can still maintain hair for 10+ years, because it's efficacy tapers off and does not just suddenly stop...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Al - Moderator Posted February 20, 2008 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2008 I've been using proscar for 11 years. If I stop taking it for more than about 3 days my hair starts falling out. As long as I take it every few days my hair stays in. I don't think it's growing much hair anymore, but it's definitely still helping me keep what I have. I know I'd be a lot worse off if I wasn't using it all those years. Al Forum Moderator (formerly BeHappy) I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 BeHappy, were you taking it before you lost most of your transplanted hair? I assume in your case the reason why you lost the transplanted hair would be due to excessive scarring from those greedy butchers who put you through all of the scalp reductions and such, no? what are your thoughts or have you talked to any good docs about your past horrific experience? As a side note, a medical doctor friend of mine, said one reason the hair could stop falling out once you stop taking propecia is merely from a build up of protein and not indicative that it was really working. any thoughts anyone? wish a doc would jump in on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:I had never heard the 5 year number before. Do you have a reference I could read? Which doc's stated this? From a coalition doc: http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/08/25/if-propecia-stops...d-can-hair-loss-get/ Another coalition doc basically gave me the same response in an email (5 - 10 years). I really do think propecia can do a great job for some. But, IMHO, it's "The Emporer's New Clothes". Remember that story when you were a kid? The 5 year result is not that far above baseline (is it statistically significant?) that I think I could justify the risk. And - the best part - how do I even know if it's working to maintain my hair or if my loss just slowed on its own, which has been suggested to happen around your late 30's early 40's. I don't, but I have to keep taking it. Of course, if the propecia does stop working, you could always switch to avodart. Let's start blocking type II and have a six month half life. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 Originally posted by BeHappy:I've been using proscar for 11 years. If I stop taking it for more than about 3 days my hair starts falling out. I don't think you'll get any doctor to confirm that stopping propecia for a few days would have such a dramatic effect that you'd notice, especially if it was an occasional excursion, given your 11 years and the tissue half life of the drug. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 regarding coalition doc quote: Hmmm...Well, that is interesting. But, it is based off of a bell-curve "average;" that means that some individuals could get 15 years while others only get 3. Interesting, but somewhat different than my original interpretation of this post. no?... Like I said, the only thing I personally had heard from a doc prior to this post was the 10 year mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 I think the center of the bell curve is just after 5 years. At five years, it's close to baseline and Merck didn't extend the study. As that doc said, the suggestion is that after five years, your below baseline, for the average guy. Again, I agree, some might get 10 years on it. Some may get 1 year. Some may get stones. But it wasn't even until I started researching that I discovered that propecia wasn't basically an "indefinite" thing. I always thought that if you took it - although you might not grow hair (rogaine's for that) - you would maintain your hair. So, for me, at the least, the calculus changes. Are the potential side effects worth only "possibly maintaining" for five years? What am I gaining, really? Plus, if I'm a non-responder to growth, I have no way to tell if it's working. I just know I'm maintaining my hair. But how do I even know it was the propecia that made me maintain my hair? And again, another coalition doc said his experience seemed to be 5 - 10 years. I'd love to get another docs take on this. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 20, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 Originally posted by Rick055: Plus, if I'm a non-responder to growth, I have no way to tell if it's working. I just know I'm maintaining my hair. But how do I even know it was the propecia that made me maintain my hair? I completely agree. Im with you on many of these issues as that is precisely why I haven't given it a shot yet. Also, I have noticed a couple posters (than & wanthairs) who previously said they didn't have sides, but then began noticing them (months?) later. Im not sure if it was months or how long because I forget how long either of them were taking it. And several others chimed in as well with their side effects. I wonder what the ACTUAL percentage is of guys who get side's? Every one always states that they subside if you discontinue use, but I have heard others complain about sides continuing for months after they stop taking it. To be honest, it would be ideal for me to take propecia when I get a ht because I still have quite a significant amount of native hair left. So, I could get an outstanding result if I kept it + transplanted hair. Still on the fence though. DOCS IF YOUR READING PLEASE CHIME IN... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 20, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 20, 2008 Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:Originally posted by Rick055: Plus, if I'm a non-responder to growth, I have no way to tell if it's working. I just know I'm maintaining my hair. But how do I even know it was the propecia that made me maintain my hair? I completely agree. To be honest, it would be ideal for me to take propecia when I get a ht because I still have quite a significant amount of native hair left. So, I could get an outstanding result if I kept it + transplanted hair. That's it in a nutshell for me, too. I have a bunch of native hair left and really WANT to take propecia. I'm just scared to death of the possible sides and wonder if all I can *reasonably* expect to get is a five year window, do I even chance the sides? We can put a man on the moon, can't someone just fix this?!? I might need to get a hobby because I spend way too much time vacillating on finasteride. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 you stopped after "reading" of the side effects? did you not experience any side effects personally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member MrJobi Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well, I have been on Propecia for over 8 years and it still works for me. Granted I have had 3 Ht's but it seems to have stabilized loss Can I get an AMEN! JOBI 1417 FUT - Dr. True 1476 FUT - Dr. True 2124 FUT - Dr. True 604 FUE - Dr. True My views are based on my personal experiences, research and objective observations. I am not a doctor. Total - 5621 FU's uncut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 Jobi, if you don't mind my asking, how old are you? Late 30s or older? 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 A'---A'MeN; mY'--A---Br'THa'!!!! question Jobi's: during those 8 years, you must have had additional loss as you have had 3 ht's, no? just have always been curious as to how people "know" it has stabilized hair loss...all sarcasm aside. you must have lost more hair to account for the ht's or you just WANTED more hair after your first ht?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member youngsuccess Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 The studies I have reviewed seem to indicate that on average, hair count is increased for up to 5 years; after 10, the person is back to where he started before taking the drug. So that suggests to me that it can maintain for 10 years. This of course is me trying to be optimistic about it. A lot of the information on Balding Blog seems to contradicts itself. Regarding finasteride, one blog says it will last for 5 years, another 10... I remember Dr. Rassman once writing "I have never seen anyone go bald while staying on Propecia". I don't know if he responds to all of the questions or if other editors contribute, but this topic definitely needs clarification because the shit is confusing. It's weird that doctors recommend a year on finasteride before considering transplantation; won't that only leave 4 effective years left after the transplant then? I don't think the five year thing is solid, although I agree that if results taper off that quickly in a lot of guys that it almost isn't worth it if you want a hair transplant because it's just distorting the big picture. ------- All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice. View my My Hair Loss Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoldingOn Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I have been on Propecia for the past nine years and have been thrilled with the results. I had overall thinning on the top and front of my head before starting. After about 6 months of Propecia I noticed it was thicker and definitely not falling out as much as before. 9 years later and I am still holdong on and people would never classify be as a guy who is "balding"...but I know better. I recently asked my dermatolgist about the effectiveness of Propecia wearing off over time. He told me that this is a misconception based on a misinterpretation of the Merck study. He explained that the highest regrowth occurred after 2 years...followed by a slight tapering off and stabilization after that. He attributed this to the fact that the hair growth cycle will be "in sync" immediately following the administration of Propecia. After 2 years, the hair cycle starts to return to normal...asynchronous (spelling?) growth...thus giving the appearance that it is not working as well. He told me to relax and to stay on course. According to him, it is extremely rare for Propecia to just stop working for someone. He also told me to imagine what I would look like if I had never started taking Propecia...I agreed and shut up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 HoldingOn, That's probably the best explanation of the process that I've ever heard. I have to think on that. Thanks for the post. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member youngsuccess Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 Yes I agree. I have been on it for 2 2/2 years with no problems, but your post is very encouraging about its future potential. Thanks. ------- All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice. View my My Hair Loss Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mrkneed Posted February 21, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 21, 2008 If it loses its effectiveness would changing to avodart after propecia lost its effectivness take over where propecia left off since it is a diff med?? My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Keene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 22, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 22, 2008 Originally posted by mrkneed:If it loses its effectiveness would changing to avodart after propecia lost its effectivness take over where propecia left off since it is a diff med?? possibly. they're conducting clinical studies on avodart as a hair med now, I think. If finasteride gives me cause for concern, avodart scares the heck out of me. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member notgoing2gobald Posted February 22, 2008 Senior Member Share Posted February 22, 2008 Rick, so you did NOT experience any sides, correct? what forum are you referring to and who was the doc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Rick055 Posted February 22, 2008 Author Senior Member Share Posted February 22, 2008 Originally posted by notgoing2gobald:Rick, so you did NOT experience any sides, correct? what forum are you referring to and who was the doc? Not correct; I had the libido sides. Dr. Rasman's forum, baldingblog; I posted the link on the first page. 1.25 mg finasteride EOD Rogaine Foam 5% QD am Kirkland minoxidil 5% QD pm Nizoral Q2W American Crew Revitalize Shampoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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