Overly Ambitious - High Norwood

[Jamie_Finndust]

I (44yo male) have been in touch with a HR clinic (one recommended from this site) with the aim to restore as much as possible of my Norwood 6 pattern of hair loss.

Ive been given an estimate of 5750 grafts to achieve a full coverage with a density estimated to be between 25/30 and 35/40 FU/cm. This includes 3000 scalp grafts.

Im interested to hear peoples opinions regarding:

1. the final density (im caucasian, with medium thickness scalp hair and a medium/thick beard) and if we will be able to achieve a satisfactory illusion of density; or if my hairline will still look like Im thinning /balding

2. Im open to taking fin for the proceeding and successive months of my surgery; however would like to not stay on it permanently. Also, as Ive never been on that med before; I do not know if i would need to stop early due to side effects.

Im aware that fin would prevent hair loss of non-safe zone hair.

When ive asked about my safe zone; Ive  been told that follicles will be taken from all over my scalp and that given my age and extent of hair loss, that my remaining hair should be in large considered safe (pending an in person examination of scalp condition; miniaturisation etc). If I cant take fin; and my transplanted hair contains DHT receptors; having the procedure seems pointless. How does this explanation of where the hair will be taken from sit with you all? 

 

Many thanks.

 

Jamie

[kiwik]

Could you share some pictures? 

1. 5750 doesn't sound bad, especially if your beard is thick. But don't expect any miracles! You could search the forum for similar cases to have a better idea of what to expect. 

2. If your hair loss has been stabilised for years, taking fin won't be necessary. However if it is still progressing, you should wait for at least half a year after hopping on fin before your surgery: you might be able to actually regrow some hair. Taking it only for a few months isn't very useful, since you will lose the regrown hair again when you stop. And it won't help with the short-term success of your hair transplant either. 

[Jamie_Finndust]

Thanks Kiwik.

I feel that my hair receding hasnt 100% stabilised, although it has definitely slowed down. In saying that, I wouldn’t be surprised if in the next 5-10 years i was to become more bald. This is why I am concerned about hair being taken from areas that may be more likely to be still affected by DHT.

Jamie

[mr_peanutbutter]

cant help you without pics really

[Jamie_Finndust]

2 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

cant help you without pics really

Ok no worries; I dont feel comfortable posting photos. Feel free to not comment if you need to see them.

 

For others out there, if you have an opinion on donor hair being harvested, without consideration made of a specific safe zone (due to a pattern of slowing but possibly not stabilized norwood 6 hair loss), it would be interesting hear your thoughts

 

Jamie

Edited June 12, 2023 by Jamie_Finndust

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

@Jamie_Finndust,

what you are proposing is not impossible but it is improbable in a single session with FUE unless you have phenomenal donor hair characteristics, density and area (coverage).  And if you truly are in Norwood six, the Area of the donor is likely already negatively impacted somewhat.

also, without photos, it’s difficult to really give you any real opinions about anything because while you may be heading towards a class Norwood 6, if you have enough natural hair left in conjunction with using hair loss medication, your expressed goals seem more likely and plausible.

So if you could give us some additional information and post some photos, that would be helpful.

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant
 

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

@Jamie_Finndust,

I just saw your post that you were not comfortable posting photos. What if you cropped the photo so it only shows your scalp and hair from the eyebrows up?  This would essentially protect your identity while allowing us to provide you with a more detailed opinion and answer to your questions.

Please note also that photos are really required to answer the kind of questions you’re asking. There’s really no way to know whether or not the number of grafts you are being coded and will provide you with an adequate illusion of density if we don’t know how much natural hair you have a and we don’t know the exact size of the area being covered. 

Also, 35-40 FU/cm2 doesn’t give us the full picture because we don’t know the total number of hairs being transplanted, the hair count breakdown, the thickness of your hair(measured in microns), whether or not that quote of alleged density is going to be static throughout the entire scalp or dynamic in that only certain areas of the scalp will contain that much density, etc.

But without considering how much natural hair you have, assuming that the density of 35 to 40 FUcm2 can be reached and is a constant value based on the average number of Haristra graft which is 2.1, and yes I would say that you would very likely have a hair transplant that meets the “illusion of density“ criteria.

BUT, The above is making a lot of assumptions that I’m not comfortable making. The above is not a real world calculation and is only based on some very rough numbers that you provided. And in most cases, hair density is dynamic as more density is added in the front and less in the back. Moreover, when a surgeon quotes you density, they’re typically giving you the highest number rather than the lowest one.  moreover, we don’t know the number of hairs that are being used and I’m only basing the above on the average, not each area based on how many haired FUs are being used. Then there are the variables that don’t involve numbers such as the thickness of your hair, hair to scalp color ratio, placement and position of the hair determined by the skill and experience of the surgeon, etc.  

all the above also assumes 100% growth yield. And you mentioned but only 3000 or scalp graphs. Where are the other 2750 grafts coming from?

So as you can see from the above, hair transplant surgery isn’t just about throwing out a number of follicular units and a Number of follicular units per square centimeter but is much more involved in determining the actual appearance of the result.

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant

Edited June 12, 2023 by Rahal Hair Transplant

[Jamie_Finndust]

1 hour ago, Rahal Hair Transplant said:

@Jamie_Finndust,

I just saw your post that you were not comfortable posting photos. What if you cropped the photo so it only shows your scalp and hair from the eyebrows up?  This would essentially protect your identity while allowing us to provide you with a more detailed opinion and answer to your questions.

Please note also that photos are really required to answer the kind of questions you’re asking. There’s really no way to know whether or not the number of grafts you are being coded and will provide you with an adequate illusion of density if we don’t know how much natural hair you have a and we don’t know the exact size of the area being covered. 

Also, 35-40 FU/cm2 doesn’t give us the full picture because we don’t know the total number of hairs being transplanted, the hair count breakdown, the thickness of your hair(measured in microns), whether or not that quote of alleged density is going to be static throughout the entire scalp or dynamic in that only certain areas of the scalp will contain that much density, etc.

But without considering how much natural hair you have, assuming that the density of 35 to 40 FUcm2 can be reached and is a constant value based on the average number of Haristra graft which is 2.1, and yes I would say that you would very likely have a hair transplant that meets the “illusion of density“ criteria.

BUT, The above is making a lot of assumptions that I’m not comfortable making. The above is not a real world calculation and is only based on some very rough numbers that you provided. And in most cases, hair density is dynamic as more density is added in the front and less in the back. Moreover, when a surgeon quotes you density, they’re typically giving you the highest number rather than the lowest one.  moreover, we don’t know the number of hairs that are being used and I’m only basing the above on the average, not each area based on how many haired FUs are being used. Then there are the variables that don’t involve numbers such as the thickness of your hair, hair to scalp color ratio, placement and position of the hair determined by the skill and experience of the surgeon, etc.  

all the above also assumes 100% growth yield. And you mentioned but only 3000 or scalp graphs. Where are the other 2750 grafts coming from?

So as you can see from the above, hair transplant surgery isn’t just about throwing out a number of follicular units and a Number of follicular units per square centimeter but is much more involved in determining the actual appearance of the result.

Best wishes,

Rahal Hair Transplant

Thanks for taking the time to write this; I really appreciate it. 

 

Im going to keep my photos off the internet for now as Im very private with that sort of thing; even blurred/cropped. I appreciate that this will limit the level of advice I can receive

[Jamie_Finndust]

Regarding safe zones; how concerned would you all be to be told that its not a consideration for someone my age with a Norwood 6; even given the fact that i might not be on meds long term?

I was under the impression that you could assume a generic safe zone for estimation purposes as per this diagram 

 

My hair loss is like the first photo on the sides and the second photo on top:

[Melvin- Admin]

It’s hard to give a response, as it all depends on your donor. Can you share photos of the donor? That’s what makes the difference.

[Jamie_Finndust]

ok no worries. what im hearing is that there’s no immediate concern with taking donor hair from outside of the areas indicated in that diagram

[Melvin- Admin]

14 hours ago, Jamie_Finndust said:

ok no worries. what im hearing is that there’s no immediate concern with taking donor hair from outside of the areas indicated in that diagram

This all depends on your individual donor. There’s no universal safe zone. You need to see a surgeon in person and have your donor evaluated microscopically for miniaturization.