New members reaching out for help/advice

[G_MAN84]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:04 AM, Dillpickle123 said:

Where are you located? It looks like if you want want it would purely be for looks as your not suffering from hairloss what’s your budget? I would go to the best for the hairline and you don’t need many grafts 2000 or less I wouldn’t go to turkey for that 

I'm located in Sydney Australia mate. 

I'm worried about my hairline and how much it has crept back over the last year. I'm concerned that it's getting worse and now that I'm getting older my hairline is catching up and I'm now receding faster. I dont think the Minoxodil and finistride are working as much as what they used to as I've been using them for 10 years now. I want to try and grow back hair @ my hairline or at least stop it creeping back.

What would you recommend that I do mate? Book into see a dermatologist? Or get look at grafts? Where would you recommend for grafts if I need to go down that path?

[NARMAK]

41 minutes ago, G_MAN84 said:

Yes I agree about the shampoo/conditioner, all it does is fluff my hair up and make it look thicker. I don't believe for a second that it actually helps grow hair. I will definitely be looking into the Nizoral I've never heard of it before  cheers mate.

I will look into the microneedling sounds like exactly what I need, I'll look at buying one online and do some Google searching to inform myself. What mg Dutasteride should I be purchasing? I think I'll have to go to my local GP to get a prescription.

So how do I know exactly what kind of schedule I should be doing to get the bedt results? Also with the Dutasteride v Finasteride, can I just replace the Finasteride with Dutasteride completely? Any recommendations for a Microneedle brand or specific pen?

Just wanted to say thank you for your help, advice and detailed replies. I really appreciate everyone helping me out 😊

 

You're welcome. 

There's usually for off label hair loss use a 0.5mg dosage. You can completely switch over but you may want to do it over time like switching it once or twice a week, then slowly increasing the dosage. Just please be aware and not to freak out when you do start shedding because this is really common when people switch over. 

There's no specific brands per se you have to buy, but there's Dr Pen i believe which is supposed to be a branded version if it's not a bootleg that should be quite good. On the day you Microneedle you can skip using Minoxidil too and will still get a boosted result, but again as with anything, it's going to be best for you to take pictures to track your progress. In terms of age and hairloss management, it seems like you have done well to get to where you are with only now seeing the hair loss start to progress. So, the next natural step imo is to increase DHT blocked via Dutasteride, Microneedling to help boost growth and whatnot. Nizoral is going to be marginal, but a little boost on top of everything else is probably better than nothing and if i'm honest, dumping that snake oil Ashley and Martin stuff for generic versions will actually save you a TON of money. 

Good luck and hopefully you can post updates on how things have gone. Eventually if you do decide to get a Hair Transplant, that should definitely be done with a lot of research but if you can ever avoid it, it's even better. I needed one as i was never going to get my temple points again without it, but i wish i had started medication back when i was 21. Good ol fear mongering put me off. 

[G_MAN84]

15 hours ago, Vann said:

After reading everything, it seems you want to reduce your forehead size because you are losing ground on your hairline?

Thing is, you are probably experiencing androgenic alopecia which creeps up slowly as you get older because your hairs sensitivity to DHT. Whether it is slow or fast really depends on your genetic disposal to DHT (how sensitive your hair follicle is to a by product of testosterone).

My best advice (others mentioned as well) is to perhaps see your primary care physician or derm (not sure how it works where you are located) and get some lab work tested. It seems you have minor hair loss, but I cant tell based off the photos. You seem to have some really good hair characteristics and what looks like thick hair. The color may pose against you but it really seems like it frames you well.

Look into dutasteride 0.5mg, derma rolling, prp, laser cap therapy, and other medical options and study them. Bring them up with your doctor and see what they say. Sometimes they wont give you much opinion because they have no financial interest. Which sometimes can be helpful but annoying. For example I asked my derm about my options and they only gave me things they did (understandable) however, when i asked them questions he didnt feel like answering me and thats how i found this forum. Basically, patience is key.

All of the medical therapies are NOT permanent and can take months to years to yield results. No matter what option you do medical or surgical you will always be chasing lost ground because you can never predict hair loss. However, with medical options you can discontinue at any point in time and go back to "normal" (unless you take oral minox then its slightly different). 

Anything surgical is permanent whether its successful or not. Which is why you need to be very careful and in my opinion exhaust all medical options first.

Be sure to ask members questions, search up results successful/unsuccessful, see what type of realities a hair transplant could provide, and lurk peoples posts. Some people have reasonable qualms with their results and other are perfectly happy.

Personally, if I was in your position of having taken finasteride  and minox for 10 years and starting to lose ground between the last 6 months I would probably switch to dutasteride and derma roll. There are times when your body sheds a lot of hair which is perfectly normal. Not every hair follicle is in the same growth cycle, just make sure you see your doctor first.

Hey mate! Cheers for the reply... yea correct, I want to grow more hair back or stop the receding on my front hairline! On top I'm fine, it's just the my front hairline that's worrying me...

I think you and the others are right! I'll booking in to see my local doctor and get a referral to see a dermatologist or even just hear what the doctors has to say. 

I have got a derma roller but others recommend there Microneedling/derma pen. I actually own a derma roller that I purchased a few years ago. I stopped using it as the guy at Ashley and Martin said they don't work, probably because he wanted me to keep renewing my yearly contract. Would you recommend derma roller or Microneedling? What dind or schedule would you do in my case?

Mate your a champion, your reply is very informative and detailed and I'm super appreciative 

[G_MAN84]

13 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

You're welcome. 

There's usually for off label hair loss use a 0.5mg dosage. You can completely switch over but you may want to do it over time like switching it once or twice a week, then slowly increasing the dosage. Just please be aware and not to freak out when you do start shedding because this is really common when people switch over. 

There's no specific brands per se you have to buy, but there's Dr Pen i believe which is supposed to be a branded version if it's not a bootleg that should be quite good. On the day you Microneedle you can skip using Minoxidil too and will still get a boosted result, but again as with anything, it's going to be best for you to take pictures to track your progress. In terms of age and hairloss management, it seems like you have done well to get to where you are with only now seeing the hair loss start to progress. So, the next natural step imo is to increase DHT blocked via Dutasteride, Microneedling to help boost growth and whatnot. Nizoral is going to be marginal, but a little boost on top of everything else is probably better than nothing and if i'm honest, dumping that snake oil Ashley and Martin stuff for generic versions will actually save you a TON of money. 

Good luck and hopefully you can post updates on how things have gone. Eventually if you do decide to get a Hair Transplant, that should definitely be done with a lot of research but if you can ever avoid it, it's even better. I needed one as i was never going to get my temple points again without it, but i wish i had started medication back when i was 21. Good ol fear mongering put me off. 

Yes I understand, kind of like weaning off medication. You can't just jump off one medication and onto another, expecially if I've been taking finistride for 10 years. I will do as you said and slowly introduce it into my system over a few months until I'm completely off finistride and substitute this with dutasteride. Does dutasteride work exactly the same as finistride, only dutasteride is much stronger? 

 

Should I be derma rolling or microneedling? Which would get me the best results? And would you only recommend doing this once a week? 

Once my contract with Ashley and Martin finishes I will not be renewing it. Cheers for the advice mate.

From the pictures you've seen of my front hairline and aroundmy temples, do you think I can get more growth and good results following the processes and procedures and using the products you've mentioned?

[NARMAK]

1 hour ago, G_MAN84 said:

Yes I understand, kind of like weaning off medication. You can't just jump off one medication and onto another, expecially if I've been taking finistride for 10 years. I will do as you said and slowly introduce it into my system over a few months until I'm completely off finistride and substitute this with dutasteride. Does dutasteride work exactly the same as finistride, only dutasteride is much stronger? 

 

Should I be derma rolling or microneedling? Which would get me the best results? And would you only recommend doing this once a week? 

Once my contract with Ashley and Martin finishes I will not be renewing it. Cheers for the advice mate.

From the pictures you've seen of my front hairline and aroundmy temples, do you think I can get more growth and good results following the processes and procedures and using the products you've mentioned?

That's right, Dutasteride is basically like a stronger version of Finasteride but it's not officially approved for hair loss in most places, which is why it's used "off label" like Oral Minoxodil. 

Depending on the size of the needle, if its 1mm to 1.5mm, you can do it just once per week. Probably recommended to do it that way but i guess it's preference too.

In terms of the derma roller, i did start with that but personally i would recommend using a derma pen instead. It targets the area more effectively and causes the "right" damage instead of potentially cutting hair shafts like derma rolling can tend to do. So it's more recommended imo. 

Your hair around the frontal area could potentially regrow by adding in Microneedling, switching to Dutasteride and maybe a little boost with Nizoral but i always tell people, never to take regrowth as a guarantee, it's a bonus. Keeping what you had and hopefully thickening it back up is the main goal if the hair in the area hasn't gone past the point of saving. 

That's also why i recommended taking progress pictures monthly under repeatable lighting. 

[Gatsby]

Yes you can look into dermarolling, 5ari inhibitors, minoxidil, etc. But honestly do this from a good dermatologist. Your GP will be able to refer you to one. If you do all of these things at once you won’t know what is doing what. It’s best to start with one thing and add another as you. All the best. And yes mate. Ashley and Martin just want every penny they can make out of your hair loss concerns. 

[NARMAK]

12 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

Yes you can look into dermarolling, 5ari inhibitors, minoxidil, etc. But honestly do this from a good dermatologist. Your GP will be able to refer you to one. If you do all of these things at once you won’t know what is doing what. It’s best to start with one thing and add another as you. All the best. And yes mate. Ashley and Martin just want every penny they can make out of your hair loss concerns. 

Just to add to this though, because OP has been taking Finasteride and Minoxodil as part of the treatment plan, there's literally no way to separate the two now to see what kept what unless OP was willing to risk losing any ground maintained by either. 

I don't think Microneedling is seen as something where you lose ground per se if you stop like Minoxodil or Finasteride though, so that should be a safe route to combine with switching to Dutasteride. 

It's kind of interesting that you guys have such a well established hair loss snake oil company in Australia. The UK at least to my knowledge never really had one. 

I wouldn't say Manual, KEEPs or whatever else recently on the market in the UK are but they're certainly using the new social media age to get into the market quickly and making money. I don't think they price gouge much at all. It's fairly competitive. 

[LookMaxx]

It seems like your current regime is doing you well, you’re on fin and min already for 10 years, 38 years old and there’s no sign of miniaturisation. Healthy thick and dense hairs everywhere. I don’t know what you think dutasteride will do for you, it’s not going to give any regrowth and like I said your hairs don’t show any sign of loss at all, it’s a common myth that fin stops working after certain years, fin results actually keeps getting better and better as years go on in studies. Really don’t see any reason to tank your DHT levels anymore than they already are.

Perhaps you have some NW1 type hairline but it’s hard to tell and we also don’t know what your hairline was like before you started using Ashley and Martin’s. We are our worst critics when judging our appearance and there’s always an element of BDD with hairs, if you have pre-treatment photos available, compare that to now then you should be able to judge better if you’ve lost any ground or improved. Please remember there’s mature hairline too that some people have and not necessarily means hairloss, I have seen people rock a NW1 late into their 50s-60s with their hairloss not progressing any forwards.

 

I don’t see a need for hair transplant or change in treatment plan and just to put things into a little perspective. Minoxidil is a strong hair stimulant and the usual dose is 5%, you’re using it at 7%…the combination of fin and min also gives better results when used together. Finasteride works at even as low dose as 0.2-0.5 mg twice or thrice a week ( which is what I have always used and I have more aggressive hairloss than you have ) and you use it 1mg/day. I see dutasteride - which will block both types of 5ar enzyme, lead to more complete DHT suppression - as unnecessary and redundant given your level of hairloss ( apparent lack of ). 
 

Lastly, this Ashley and Martin company seems to be selling generic fin and min at expensive (?) prices but aside from the conditioner and shampoos, they did give you solid treatment. 7% Minoxidil is no joke neither is 1mg finasteride, they’re the only treatment for hairloss that works and they give you high dosage. They can be blamed for selling shampoos and conditions but then how many gazillion companies are there selling nonsense shampoos and conditioners that supposedly help hairloss but all they really do is worsen it and dry out your scalp and skin. Do stop them if they’re expensive than generics though.

[Vann]

5 hours ago, G_MAN84 said:

Hey mate! Cheers for the reply... yea correct, I want to grow more hair back or stop the receding on my front hairline! On top I'm fine, it's just the my front hairline that's worrying me...

I think you and the others are right! I'll booking in to see my local doctor and get a referral to see a dermatologist or even just hear what the doctors has to say. 

I have got a derma roller but others recommend there Microneedling/derma pen. I actually own a derma roller that I purchased a few years ago. I stopped using it as the guy at Ashley and Martin said they don't work, probably because he wanted me to keep renewing my yearly contract. Would you recommend derma roller or Microneedling? What dind or schedule would you do in my case?

Mate your a champion, your reply is very informative and detailed and I'm super appreciative 

Hmm there’s more benefits to using the pen because you can replace the pins which become dull after repeated use, so you’ll get more from that. Plus the pen is a bit more ergonmic for your hands so it’s a bit better some would say. But honestly it’s a little more expensive but over time it’ll pay itself off then replacing the rollers with time. 
 

As far as frequency… it really depends on the depth (mm size) you use, hair texture, and healing. There are sites I googled that say use 0.5mm every 2 weeks while some say every 10 days.

i think you could start with 0.5mm maybe 0.75mm and work your way up to 1-1.5mm.
 

I derma roll my dermis-skin(face) with 0.5mm every other Tuesday. And I use a pen on my scalp once a month with different levels between 1.15mm to 1.5mm on the first Tuesday each month. However, I had a transplant not too long ago so I haven’t done any ‘derma rolling’ (pen) on my scalp. I’ll probably pick it up again after my first haircut just so I can compare some results from PRP post transplant. 
 

also the trick with your hairline receding could probably be a good case for a hair transplant or maybe a good case of fibers or SMP. It’s very difficult to tell whether your hair loss is going to halt/stabilize or progress so most people that do hairline work get mature design lines. You never want to lower your hairline because it’s a huge nightmare trying to continuously catch up with continuous loss. The only person that I think did a really good job at this was fue3361 who doesn’t face mpb but I wouldn’t use him as a reference for hair loss but rather what you could achieve visually (at a significantly high dense packing). 
 

nonetheless, I’m happy to help. Good luck with any appointments and feel free to ask any questions you have. Best of luck to you man.

[Dillpickle123]

6 hours ago, G_MAN84 said:

I'm located in Sydney Australia mate. 

I'm worried about my hairline and how much it has crept back over the last year. I'm concerned that it's getting worse and now that I'm getting older my hairline is catching up and I'm now receding faster. I dont think the Minoxodil and finistride are working as much as what they used to as I've been using them for 10 years now. I want to try and grow back hair @ my hairline or at least stop it creeping back.

What would you recommend that I do mate? Book into see a dermatologist? Or get look at grafts? Where would you recommend for grafts if I need to go down that path?

If you’ve been taking fin and want to lower the hairline I would go see dr laorwong he’s does amazing work he’s located in Thailand a lot of Australians have gone there with amazing results and you don’t need many grafts at all probably 2000 grafts needed 

[G_MAN84]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:03 PM, NARMAK said:

That's right, Dutasteride is basically like a stronger version of Finasteride but it's not officially approved for hair loss in most places, which is why it's used "off label" like Oral Minoxodil. 

Depending on the size of the needle, if its 1mm to 1.5mm, you can do it just once per week. Probably recommended to do it that way but i guess it's preference too.

In terms of the derma roller, i did start with that but personally i would recommend using a derma pen instead. It targets the area more effectively and causes the "right" damage instead of potentially cutting hair shafts like derma rolling can tend to do. So it's more recommended imo. 

Your hair around the frontal area could potentially regrow by adding in Microneedling, switching to Dutasteride and maybe a little boost with Nizoral but i always tell people, never to take regrowth as a guarantee, it's a bonus. Keeping what you had and hopefully thickening it back up is the main goal if the hair in the area hasn't gone past the point of saving. 

That's also why i recommended taking progress pictures monthly under repeatable lighting. 

Oh ok, I understand! Why isn't Dutasteride approved if there is proof that it works? If finistride can get approved then why can't Dutasteride? Sounds very strange to me.

Isn't Dutasteride medication for enlargement of the prostate?

What do you mean by used as off label oral Minoxodil?

So you recommended going with the 1mm to 1.5mm Microneedle? 

Yeah ideally I'd like to grow back more hair at my hairline but worst case I'd like to put a holt to the receding and hair loss tbh, growing or thickening of any hair would be a bonus. 

Do you think it would be a good idea to speak to a dermatologist? Or just start the regime with the products that you've mentioned?

 

[G_MAN84]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:38 PM, Gatsby said:

Yes you can look into dermarolling, 5ari inhibitors, minoxidil, etc. But honestly do this from a good dermatologist. Your GP will be able to refer you to one. If you do all of these things at once you won’t know what is doing what. It’s best to start with one thing and add another as you. All the best. And yes mate. Ashley and Martin just want every penny they can make out of your hair loss concerns. 

Yeah that might be the best thing to do mate, book into a good dermatologist and let them assess my hair and let the professionals guide me in the right direction. Thank you for your help and advice mate, much appreciated 👍 

[Dillpickle123]

3 minutes ago, G_MAN84 said:

Yeah that might be the best thing to do mate, book into a good dermatologist and let them assess my hair and let the professionals guide me in the right direction. Thank you for your help and advice mate, much appreciated 👍 

They’re probably gonna say you no hairloss your hairline matured I think if you want to get a transplant it’s purely gonna be cosmetic 

[NARMAK]

21 minutes ago, G_MAN84 said:

Oh ok, I understand! Why isn't Dutasteride approved if there is proof that it works? If finistride can get approved then why can't Dutasteride? Sounds very strange to me.

Isn't Dutasteride medication for enlargement of the prostate?

What do you mean by used as off label oral Minoxodil?

So you recommended going with the 1mm to 1.5mm Microneedle? 

Yeah ideally I'd like to grow back more hair at my hairline but worst case I'd like to put a holt to the receding and hair loss tbh, growing or thickening of any hair would be a bonus. 

Do you think it would be a good idea to speak to a dermatologist? Or just start the regime with the products that you've mentioned?

 

It's not that it probably can't get approved, it has got approval in places like Japan and South Korea specifically for hair loss, but in countries like the US, UK etc. it doesn't have approval to be marketed for hair loss because of whatever licencing doo hickey arrangements they maybe have. So when you use a product say marketed as "for enlarged prostates" then it's known as "off label use". Oral Minoxodil for example hasn't been approved for hair loss either, but Doctors have begun prescribing it much more recently in larger numbers because data does show it has a positive impact at lower dosages for hair loss/regrowth. 

In terms of Microneedling, if you are using a Derma Pen, it's up to you if you want to start off with maybe a smaller needle depth and slowly build your tolerance or you have maybe already got that and want to go into any depth between 1mm to 1.5mm depending on what you are comfortable with and do it just once per week. You don't use Minoxodil on that same day as mentioned if you are currently using. 

You can speak to a dermatologist for piece of mind, but how useful that will be truly depends on how good they are in their job specifically viewing you from a dermatology PoV for hair loss, but i guess in general if your scalp can be helped to be as "normal" as possible, then it's fertile for optimum hair health. 

[G_MAN84]

On 10/4/2022 at 10:25 PM, LookMaxx said:

It seems like your current regime is doing you well, you’re on fin and min already for 10 years, 38 years old and there’s no sign of miniaturisation. Healthy thick and dense hairs everywhere. I don’t know what you think dutasteride will do for you, it’s not going to give any regrowth and like I said your hairs don’t show any sign of loss at all, it’s a common myth that fin stops working after certain years, fin results actually keeps getting better and better as years go on in studies. Really don’t see any reason to tank your DHT levels anymore than they already are.

Perhaps you have some NW1 type hairline but it’s hard to tell and we also don’t know what your hairline was like before you started using Ashley and Martin’s. We are our worst critics when judging our appearance and there’s always an element of BDD with hairs, if you have pre-treatment photos available, compare that to now then you should be able to judge better if you’ve lost any ground or improved. Please remember there’s mature hairline too that some people have and not necessarily means hairloss, I have seen people rock a NW1 late into their 50s-60s with their hairloss not progressing any forwards.

 

I don’t see a need for hair transplant or change in treatment plan and just to put things into a little perspective. Minoxidil is a strong hair stimulant and the usual dose is 5%, you’re using it at 7%…the combination of fin and min also gives better results when used together. Finasteride works at even as low dose as 0.2-0.5 mg twice or thrice a week ( which is what I have always used and I have more aggressive hairloss than you have ) and you use it 1mg/day. I see dutasteride - which will block both types of 5ar enzyme, lead to more complete DHT suppression - as unnecessary and redundant given your level of hairloss ( apparent lack of ). 
 

Lastly, this Ashley and Martin company seems to be selling generic fin and min at expensive (?) prices but aside from the conditioner and shampoos, they did give you solid treatment. 7% Minoxidil is no joke neither is 1mg finasteride, they’re the only treatment for hairloss that works and they give you high dosage. They can be blamed for selling shampoos and conditions but then how many gazillion companies are there selling nonsense shampoos and conditioners that supposedly help hairloss but all they really do is worsen it and dry out your scalp and skin. Do stop them if they’re expensive than generics though.

My current regime was doing me well but I've noticed my hairline change quite a bit over the last 6-12 months, I've had to get different haircuts and style my hair differently. So if I've noticed this then it's time to fo something about it before it's to late, if I keep sweeping it under the carpet then it will only get worse then either be irreversible or cost me a lot more money, both of which l dont want. So I think acting on it now is the best thing to do.

There is signs of miniaturisation, as I've mentioned in my previous posts. My hair on top and at the back is fine, it's my front hairline that's creeping back and receding

I'm hoping dutasteride being STRONGER will help slow down the receding and creeping back of my front hairline line, that in conjunction with Microneedling and Nizoral shampoo and hopefully I can get some results. I'm just going off what other members have said and recommend mate, they like yourself seem to have knowledge and experience know what they are talking about. I'm just going off what they are saying and this is only a forum for discussion. 

That's the thing, I know what my hairline used to be and used to look like. I've checked out photos from a few years ago and its changed quite noticeably, at least I can notice anyway as I look at myself everyday while cleaning my teeth or doing my hair etc. I just think with what I've noticed with my receding hairline over the last 6-12 months its only hoing to get worse if l just leave it and not do anything about it then I'll regret it later on. As you'd know, you know your hair and body better than anyone, your the one who notices these changes hence why we are all on this forum or had HT or done something about ir hair wheather be big or small.

Obviously I need a change in treatment plan if I've noticed change and noticed my hairline getting worse, I'd be silly to just watch it get worse and do nothing about it. Why wouldn't I try dutasteride with Microneedling if it can help with my results? Members on here seem to think it works and I get get some good results? As I said mate, I'm only going off what other members have mentioned, I'm om here because I don't know. Maybe @NARMAKor @Dillpickle123 can shed some light or answer some of these points in our discussion? 

So what shampoo or conditioner should i be using? Nizoral as recommended?