Pyrilutamide - A Game Changer In the Making?

[NARMAK]

So for those of us currently suffering hair loss, the gold standard has been for many years the adapted dosages of "Accidental Hair Loss Treatments" like Finasteride/Dutasteride and Minoxodil in oral or topical forms. 

However, this new treatment of Pyrilutamide seems to ensure that DHT in the body or scalp is not decreased but rather targets and cuts the ability of DHT on the Androgen Receptor. So this hypothetically would eliminate the concerns around Finasteride which causes a multitude of side affects for guys and concerns for many. 

I've said before that if a suitable replacement came around and it was competitively priced, i would be eager to transition over to it, so what are your guys thoughts? 

I believe it's currently undergone Phase 2 trials in both the US and China, heading towards the final stages. 

Do you guys feel like we may even get some interesting combination treatments with people showing amazing results maybe even combining Finasteride and Pyrilutamide? 

All i know is that we're long overdue true new treatments for Androgenic Alopecia and they can't come soon enough. 

I would be seriously interested to see if there's any chance whatsoever that when DHT bindings at the Androgen Receptor are cut, whether even people with "dead zones" usually considered past the 50% point of miniaturisation might show regrowth with this new or combined treatments. 

[shiba1985]

You feel like you will have side effects when DHT is lowered, but some how believe there wont be any side effects when the DHT molecule is blocked from binding the androgen receptor? That is not a logical conclusion. 

If the androgen receptor is blocked the side effects will be no different than finasteride and dutasteride. Unless it only blocks the andorgen receptors in the scalp and no where else. Then it would be a game changer but i imagine very difficult to do

[shiba1985]

I did some reading. So this is topical? How much is the systemic absorption? I would not take an anti androgen orally as a male. It would have a castrating effect. If topical, biggest worry and need to know would be plasma concentration.  it would work similar to topical spironolactone 

[NARMAK]

9 minutes ago, shiba1985 said:

You feel like you will have side effects when DHT is lowered, but some how believe there wont be any side effects when the DHT molecule is blocked from binding the androgen receptor? That is not a logical conclusion. 

If the androgen receptor is blocked the side effects will be no different than finasteride and dutasteride. Unless it only blocks the andorgen receptors in the scalp and no where else. Then it would be a game changer but i imagine very difficult to do

 

5 minutes ago, shiba1985 said:

I did some reading. So this is topical? How much is the systemic absorption? I would not take an anti androgen orally as a male. It would have a castrating effect. If topical, biggest worry and need to know would be plasma concentration.  it would work similar to topical spironolactone 

So, the treatment is being tested for both male and female hair loss and specifically for males, it blocks the androgen receptors for DHT to bind to on the scalp. 

Matt Dominance recently made a video about it on his YouTube. So it's not lowering DHT levels in the body like Finasteride or Dutasteride but rather from what i understood of his video attempting to block them binding in the first place to the follicles. Therefore allowing DHT to circulate as normal in the body and keep all the functions you usually would. 

So far, the reported side affects are contact dermatitis and i believe it's a topical product. 

That's why i was curious that if it was combined possibly with Finasteride for an experiment whether maybe it could be a more potent solution to the issue of Minoxodil. With topical or Oral Minoxodil we know that you have to indefinitely continue that treatment to maintain the hair it regrows even if you take Finasteride but i am curious whether people who regrow hair with the use of both Finasteride and Pyrilutamide could hypothetically maintain all the hair say by switching over to just one rather than losing ground like people usually do when they stop Minoxidil. 

There's definitely more time for this to go through clinical trials, but so far it looks like a really promising treatment to replace Finasteride and Dutasteride in terms of how it works to block the ability of DHT to affect hair without reducing it in your body or scalp. 

[shiba1985]

2 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

 

So, the treatment is being tested for both male and female hair loss and specifically for males, it blocks the androgen receptors for DHT to bind to on the scalp. 

Matt Dominance recently made a video about it on his YouTube. So it's not lowering DHT levels in the body like Finasteride or Dutasteride but rather from what i understood of his video attempting to block them binding in the first place to the follicles. Therefore allowing DHT to circulate as normal in the body and keep all the functions you usually would. 

So far, the reported side affects are contact dermatitis and i believe it's a topical product. 

That's why i was curious that if it was combined possibly with Finasteride for an experiment whether maybe it could be a more potent solution to the issue of Minoxodil. With topical or Oral Minoxodil we know that you have to indefinitely continue that treatment to maintain the hair it regrows even if you take Finasteride but i am curious whether people who regrow hair with the use of both Finasteride and Pyrilutamide could hypothetically maintain all the hair say by switching over to just one rather than losing ground like people usually do when they stop Minoxidil. 

There's definitely more time for this to go through clinical trials, but so far it looks like a really promising treatment to replace Finasteride and Dutasteride in terms of how it works to block the ability of DHT to affect hair without reducing it in your body or scalp. 

 

I undesrstand. But the main and possibly the only way DHT exerts its function in the body is via androgen receptor. So if you block the receptor, but let DHT continue to circulate the side effects will be the same as nuking DHT levels as it will be useless circulating around.

There are other drugs in medicine that are analogous ACE inhibitor (angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitor) vs ARB (angiotensin receptor blocker) which are used for blood pressure. Point is when you block the receptor, you take away the functioning of the molecule and the end result is the same

 

 

[NARMAK]

1 minute ago, shiba1985 said:

 

I undesrstand. But the main and possibly the only way DHT exerts its function in the body is via androgen receptor. So if you block the receptor, but let DHT continue to circulate the side effects will be the same as nuking DHT levels as it will be useless circulating around.

There are other drugs in medicine that are analogous ACE inhibitor (angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitor) vs ARB (angiotensin receptor blocker) which are used for blood pressure. Point is when you block the receptor, you take away the functioning of the molecule and the end result is the same

 

 

I could be incorrect but my understanding was that the topical nature of the product is supposed to keep it localised to the scalp AR that the DHT would usually bind to causing the hair loss. 

It does seem like it's so far proving very effective in terms of the clinical trial data for hair loss and i do think for a lot of guys it will be interesting to see if it could possibly replace both Finasteride and Minoxodil as a combination treatment to just relying on a single treatment for those suffering hair loss in the early stages. 

The introduction of new treatments for hair loss imo are nothing but great news for the future and younger guys. 

[sunsurfhair]

3 hours ago, shiba1985 said:

I did some reading. So this is topical? How much is the systemic absorption? I would not take an anti androgen orally as a male. It would have a castrating effect. If topical, biggest worry and need to know would be plasma concentration.  it would work similar to topical spironolactone 

That’s right. If it could stay entirely on the scalp - game changer. If it got into the bloodstream enough to block AR in the body, that’s an atom bomb waiting to go off. We would all change sexes 😂 

[sunsurfhair]

2 hours ago, shiba1985 said:

 

I undesrstand. But the main and possibly the only way DHT exerts its function in the body is via androgen receptor. So if you block the receptor, but let DHT continue to circulate the side effects will be the same as nuking DHT levels as it will be useless circulating around.

There are other drugs in medicine that are analogous ACE inhibitor (angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitor) vs ARB (angiotensin receptor blocker) which are used for blood pressure. Point is when you block the receptor, you take away the functioning of the molecule and the end result is the same

 

 

Testosterone and DHT both bind to AR, but DHT has a much higher affinity to binding to AR. That’s why guys will lost hair (if they are prone to it) even with low DHT since T can bind and cause miniaturization. The sensitivity to the AR I believe has a strong impact into the effect of DHT to hair loss e.g guys who have a high sensitivity toward DHT at the AR will have much more potential to lose hair/miniaturize.  

[BaldDude]

Has anyone here tried it yet? There’s some websites already selling it.

[LookMaxx]

1 hour ago, BaldBobby said:

Has anyone here tried it yet? There’s some websites already selling it.

Most likely scams. There was a group buy about it and it was a fail but surprise surprise the clinical trial has positive results. So yeah calm down and wait until the company releases the product themselves. 

[davidn]

All depends on serum concentration of the drug to cause or not cause side effects. I don't completely trust this company as there have been multiple issues with their COVID drug.

I think it would be beneficial to stack with Finasteride, I believe this would increase the hair count on your scalp, hopefully even synergistic. However, keep in mind, even castrating males who are completely bald doesnt regrow all their hair. 

[LookMaxx]

5 hours ago, NARMAK said:

So for those of us currently suffering hair loss, the gold standard has been for many years the adapted dosages of "Accidental Hair Loss Treatments" like Finasteride/Dutasteride and Minoxodil in oral or topical forms. 

However, this new treatment of Pyrilutamide seems to ensure that DHT in the body or scalp is not decreased but rather targets and cuts the ability of DHT on the Androgen Receptor. So this hypothetically would eliminate the concerns around Finasteride which causes a multitude of side affects for guys and concerns for many. 

I've said before that if a suitable replacement came around and it was competitively priced, i would be eager to transition over to it, so what are your guys thoughts? 

I believe it's currently undergone Phase 2 trials in both the US and China, heading towards the final stages. 

Do you guys feel like we may even get some interesting combination treatments with people showing amazing results maybe even combining Finasteride and Pyrilutamide? 

All i know is that we're long overdue true new treatments for Androgenic Alopecia and they can't come soon enough. 

I would be seriously interested to see if there's any chance whatsoever that when DHT bindings at the Androgen Receptor are cut, whether even people with "dead zones" usually considered past the 50% point of miniaturisation might show regrowth with this new or combined treatments. 

I don’t understand the hype or why it’s a game changer. It doesn’t regrow hair, has to be taken for life like other treatments, requires twice daily topical applications and if you’re diffuse thinner well good luck with that. 

I guess the people who are afraid of finasteride and have made it some sort of devil drug must be ecstatic and overhyping any drug that isn’t finasteride but it doesn’t offer anything new and definitely not a “game changer”

For me a game changer would be something that you take for once and it stops your hairloss for life. Or you take it and it regrows your hair improving your Norwood levels. Better than minoxidil. 

 

[BurnieBurns]

3 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

I don’t understand the hype or why it’s a game changer. It doesn’t regrow hair, has to be taken for life like other treatments, requires twice daily topical applications and if you’re diffuse thinner well good luck with that. 

I guess the people who are afraid of finasteride and have made it some sort of devil drug must be ecstatic and overhyping any drug that isn’t finasteride but it doesn’t offer anything new and definitely not a “game changer”

For me a game changer would be something that you take for once and it stops your hairloss for life. Or you take it and it regrows your hair improving your Norwood levels. Better than minoxidil. 

 

For someone unable to tolerate finasteride, it could very much be a game changer

[NARMAK]

6 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

I don’t understand the hype or why it’s a game changer. It doesn’t regrow hair, has to be taken for life like other treatments, requires twice daily topical applications and if you’re diffuse thinner well good luck with that. 

I guess the people who are afraid of finasteride and have made it some sort of devil drug must be ecstatic and overhyping any drug that isn’t finasteride but it doesn’t offer anything new and definitely not a “game changer”

For me a game changer would be something that you take for once and it stops your hairloss for life. Or you take it and it regrows your hair improving your Norwood levels. Better than minoxidil. 

 

Unfortunately a holy grail treatment you take once and are cured of hair loss is probably many, many decades away so it's either take what you have now or just get on with things as nature takes its course. 

It's a game changer imo because as somebody above mentioned, people that can't tolerate Finasteride/Dutasteride orally or topically because of sides no longer have to worry about that issue and still have the ability to save their hair. 

In terms of saving hair or regrowth, almost no treatment out there guarantees that. It just so happens we have anecdotal evidence that people using the "Big 3" of Finasteride, Minoxodil and Microneedling with perhaps a side of Nizoral containing 2% ketoconazole have shown regrowth. So there's a possibility this could help too but from a legal and marketing PoV, it's better to protect themselves by not saying that's a benefit of the product. 

The latest clinical trial data is something Matt Dominance went over in his latest YouTube video on it and in the first trials it seems they used high dosages up to 48mg and these were detectable in the bloodstream but once they readjusted dosages for Phase 2 they used 5mg as the highest dosage twice daily and at 6 months, they were claiming better gross and similar net results or better than Finasteride and Minoxodil used for even 1 year. So that to me shows a massive potential for people afraid of sides from Finasteride who never did anything at all and lost hair or those who had sides and couldn't save their hair as a result either. 

6 hours ago, davidn said:

All depends on serum concentration of the drug to cause or not cause side effects. I don't completely trust this company as there have been multiple issues with their COVID drug.

I think it would be beneficial to stack with Finasteride, I believe this would increase the hair count on your scalp, hopefully even synergistic. However, keep in mind, even castrating males who are completely bald doesnt regrow all their hair. 

Yes, hair regrowth unfortunately is something that's eluding us with only cases where male to female transitions are taking place and that level of pharmacology seems to show anecdotally complete regrowth of hair. Obviously not something a majority of biological males wishing to remain so would ever consider but i do actually agree with you that combining this with Finasteride could show a strong synergistic element but only time will tell. 

I know the company may not have great things with their Covid drug, but right now they are pushing with FDA approval and a lot of people cite that as a gold standard it seems for getting approved and thus far less than a handful of products for hair loss at least have been approved, so perhaps the few in the pipeline and then long term anecdotal and science studies might help. 

Personally i'm willing to give it a go when it's fully approved if its cheap enough but only alongside my current regimen. 

[sunsurfhair]

28 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Unfortunately a holy grail treatment you take once and are cured of hair loss is probably many, many decades away so it's either take what you have now or just get on with things as nature takes its course. 

It's a game changer imo because as somebody above mentioned, people that can't tolerate Finasteride/Dutasteride orally or topically because of sides no longer have to worry about that issue and still have the ability to save their hair. 

In terms of saving hair or regrowth, almost no treatment out there guarantees that. It just so happens we have anecdotal evidence that people using the "Big 3" of Finasteride, Minoxodil and Microneedling with perhaps a side of Nizoral containing 2% ketoconazole have shown regrowth. So there's a possibility this could help too but from a legal and marketing PoV, it's better to protect themselves by not saying that's a benefit of the product. 

The latest clinical trial data is something Matt Dominance went over in his latest YouTube video on it and in the first trials it seems they used high dosages up to 48mg and these were detectable in the bloodstream but once they readjusted dosages for Phase 2 they used 5mg as the highest dosage twice daily and at 6 months, they were claiming better gross and similar net results or better than Finasteride and Minoxodil used for even 1 year. So that to me shows a massive potential for people afraid of sides from Finasteride who never did anything at all and lost hair or those who had sides and couldn't save their hair as a result either. 

Yes, hair regrowth unfortunately is something that's eluding us with only cases where male to female transitions are taking place and that level of pharmacology seems to show anecdotally complete regrowth of hair. Obviously not something a majority of biological males wishing to remain so would ever consider but i do actually agree with you that combining this with Finasteride could show a strong synergistic element but only time will tell. 

I know the company may not have great things with their Covid drug, but right now they are pushing with FDA approval and a lot of people cite that as a gold standard it seems for getting approved and thus far less than a handful of products for hair loss at least have been approved, so perhaps the few in the pipeline and then long term anecdotal and science studies might help. 

Personally i'm willing to give it a go when it's fully approved if its cheap enough but only alongside my current regimen. 

Is there any consensus on what the best needle length is to microneedle at? I’ve been using Dr Pen 16 needle packs at .75, 1.0 and 1.5 most recently. Would prefer the lower settings if still optimal. And I can’t seem to find out how long an area should be micro-needled for. Is it 10 mins? 

[NARMAK]

4 minutes ago, sunsurfhair said:

Is there any consensus on what the best needle length is to microneedle at? I’ve been using Dr Pen 16 needle packs at .75, 1.0 and 1.5 most recently. Would prefer the lower settings if still optimal. And I can’t seem to find out how long an area should be micro-needled for. Is it 10 mins? 

Everybody generally seems to mention 1mm to 1.5mm once a week as a sufficient depth. Some people may have a more sensitive scalp and/or need to build a tolerance so really it's whatever is more comfortable for you. 

A derma pen from experience feels different even at 1mm to say a derma roller and that's why it's sometimes best to start off with a depth that's not causing you too much discomfort. 

As for timing, the idea is not to stay excessively long in one area but till you can see it has gone red. Drawing blood shouldn't be a goal but rather a side affect in some areas i think although there are some people who will literally microneedle till they draw blood as a barometer. Not for me personally but enough to have the area be a bit red and tender after. 

[sunsurfhair]

9 hours ago, NARMAK said:

Everybody generally seems to mention 1mm to 1.5mm once a week as a sufficient depth. Some people may have a more sensitive scalp and/or need to build a tolerance so really it's whatever is more comfortable for you. 

A derma pen from experience feels different even at 1mm to say a derma roller and that's why it's sometimes best to start off with a depth that's not causing you too much discomfort. 

As for timing, the idea is not to stay excessively long in one area but till you can see it has gone red. Drawing blood shouldn't be a goal but rather a side affect in some areas i think although there are some people who will literally microneedle till they draw blood as a barometer. Not for me personally but enough to have the area be a bit red and tender after. 

It’s funny because I can handle the pain or discomfort of 1.5, but the few days after are rough! That’s more painful then the actual needling. Will try 1.0 again see if it’s a little easier in the few days following haha

[mr_peanutbutter]

20 hours ago, NARMAK said:

Unfortunately a holy grail treatment you take once and are cured of hair loss is probably many, many decades away so it's either take what you have now or just get on with things as nature takes its course. 

It's a game changer imo because as somebody above mentioned, people that can't tolerate Finasteride/Dutasteride orally or topically because of sides no longer have to worry about that issue and still have the ability to save their hair. 

In terms of saving hair or regrowth, almost no treatment out there guarantees that. It just so happens we have anecdotal evidence that people using the "Big 3" of Finasteride, Minoxodil and Microneedling with perhaps a side of Nizoral containing 2% ketoconazole have shown regrowth. So there's a possibility this could help too but from a legal and marketing PoV, it's better to protect themselves by not saying that's a benefit of the product. 

The latest clinical trial data is something Matt Dominance went over in his latest YouTube video on it and in the first trials it seems they used high dosages up to 48mg and these were detectable in the bloodstream but once they readjusted dosages for Phase 2 they used 5mg as the highest dosage twice daily and at 6 months, they were claiming better gross and similar net results or better than Finasteride and Minoxodil used for even 1 year. So that to me shows a massive potential for people afraid of sides from Finasteride who never did anything at all and lost hair or those who had sides and couldn't save their hair as a result either. 

Yes, hair regrowth unfortunately is something that's eluding us with only cases where male to female transitions are taking place and that level of pharmacology seems to show anecdotally complete regrowth of hair. Obviously not something a majority of biological males wishing to remain so would ever consider but i do actually agree with you that combining this with Finasteride could show a strong synergistic element but only time will tell. 

I know the company may not have great things with their Covid drug, but right now they are pushing with FDA approval and a lot of people cite that as a gold standard it seems for getting approved and thus far less than a handful of products for hair loss at least have been approved, so perhaps the few in the pipeline and then long term anecdotal and science studies might help. 

Personally i'm willing to give it a go when it's fully approved if its cheap enough but only alongside my current regimen. 

if it gets approved i give it 1 year until first people claim to got post-pyrilutamide syndrome. maybe justified, maybe imaginied

[LookMaxx]

7 minutes ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

if it gets approved i give it 1 year until first people claim to got post-pyrilutamide syndrome. maybe justified, maybe imaginied

Well this is stronger than finasteride and some of it does get into bloodstream. Go figure 😉

[NARMAK]

7 hours ago, mr_peanutbutter said:

if it gets approved i give it 1 year until first people claim to got post-pyrilutamide syndrome. maybe justified, maybe imaginied

Honestly any new drugs on the market and i'd expect this happens quite often and even is considered par for the course. 

With Finasteride for example Merck updated warning labels and settled just because it was cheaper than dragging it out and the cases allegedly only had to prove emotional leanings of things than objective. Somebody will be along to say X, Y or Z to the contrary but i'm not defending Big Pharma, just that there's crappy lawsuits launched on both sides of the table from individuals to corporations. 

For me though, i do wonder whether this added to Finasteride might finally crack open the strongest treatment plan for moat young guys with aggressive hair loss. 

7 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

Well this is stronger than finasteride and some of it does get into bloodstream. Go figure 😉

What's your basis for calling this stronger than Finasteride? It doesn't lower DHT in the body, simply stops the scalp DHT from binding to the ARs and so far the only sides seem to be contact dermatitis based which does leave the door open for them to adjust the formulations and have that become less of an issue. A bit how topical Minoxodil sold by cheap brands has a lot of PG and alcohol bases causes the skin to dry out. 

[LookMaxx]

14 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

What's your basis for calling this stronger than Finasteride? It doesn't lower DHT in the body, simply stops the scalp DHT from binding to the ARs and so far the only sides seem to be contact dermatitis based which does leave the door open for them to adjust the formulations and have that become less of an issue. A bit how topical Minoxodil sold by cheap brands has a lot of PG and alcohol bases causes the skin to dry out. 

This blocks out androgen receptors, DHT isn’t the only androgen in the body you know. DHT, T, DHEA A4, A5, Andosterone, estrogen, maybe prolactin etc etc that act on androgen receptors. Whereas finasteride blocks some percent of an enzyme to DHT pathway but it’s still not completely and not the sole pathway. So this is definitely stronger than finasteride.

And it does get into the bloodstream so they tried lower dosages then the amount that gets into bloodstream is very low.

 

 

[NARMAK]

5 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

This blocks out androgen receptors, DHT isn’t the only androgen in the body you know. DHT, T, DHEA A4, A5, Andosterone, estrogen, maybe prolactin etc etc that act on androgen receptors. Whereas finasteride blocks some percent of an enzyme to DHT pathway but it’s still not completely and not the sole pathway. So this is definitely stronger than finasteride.

And it does get into the bloodstream so they tried lower dosages then the amount that gets into bloodstream is very low.

 

 

They decided to test a dosage that is barely noticeable in the bloodstream for Phase 2 clinical trials and onwards. So yes blocking AR receptors may do what you're saying if it wasn't for the fact that based on the clinical trial data so far, it's localised to the scalp and actually doesn't seem to register into the bloodstream to really affect the other AR receptors in the manner you mention. 

It's a promising treatment and time will tell what side affects are officially listed and then become known, but just like people were happy to take the COVID-19 vaccines in billions of doses without long term safety studies etc. and the side effects are still being discovered, i'm sure a scalp localised treatment for hair loss shouldn't fare too badly helping most people. 

[LookMaxx]

6 hours ago, NARMAK said:

They decided to test a dosage that is barely noticeable in the bloodstream for Phase 2 clinical trials and onwards. So yes blocking AR receptors may do what you're saying if it wasn't for the fact that based on the clinical trial data so far, it's localised to the scalp and actually doesn't seem to register into the bloodstream to really affect the other AR receptors in the manner you mention. 

It's a promising treatment and time will tell what side affects are officially listed and then become known, but just like people were happy to take the COVID-19 vaccines in billions of doses without long term safety studies etc. and the side effects are still being discovered, i'm sure a scalp localised treatment for hair loss shouldn't fare too badly helping most people. 

Do you know what they say about vaccines? PFS sounds rational compared to that 😂

You seem to think the world has normal rational people and it’s cute but oh man, you have no idea 

That’s what we’re alluding to, it’s a stronger androgen blocker through a different mechanism, there’s a great chance PPS will happen hehe when people hear it also messes with androgens. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by LookMaxx

[NARMAK]

5 hours ago, LookMaxx said:

Do you know what they say about vaccines? PFS sounds rational compared to that 😂

You seem to think the world has normal rational people and it’s cute but oh man, you have no idea 

That’s what we’re alluding to, it’s a stronger androgen blocker through a different mechanism, there’s a great chance PPS will happen hehe when people hear it also messes with androgens. 

Yeah, i am not naive at all to the type of people in this world, but just as we currently don't let a minority of people dictate things being completely pulled from market with loud voices, i'm sure the science will be followed well enough and this product should hopefully see a success in helping people with hair loss. 

There's actually a few other products too but so far, clinical trials for this are going well and we're overdue new treatments by a decade at least. 

[SeanT1]

Solutions to hair loss have been coming and going for many MANY years.  If all the promises companies have made over the years followed through, there would be no more balding in the world.

Let's hope this is the real deal and a solid alternative to finasteride.

Edited September 13, 2022 by SeanToman