Topical Finasteride

[Twentyfive25]

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'm losing the battle with just minodoxil and am at the point where I need to think about something more drastic. 

I've been highly reluctant to try Finasteride due to fear of Post-Finasteride Syndrome and Gynecomastia. I know the risk chance is low but the symptoms of that would destroy my life and marriage so I'm very nervous around this drug.

I've read that a topical version can still be effective but limit the risk factors which is interesting.

Does anyone have any experience with this? 

Can anyone recommend a good supplier for this that is based in or ships to the UK?

Edited November 10, 2021 by Twentyfive25

[LaserCaps]

The only way to confirm is to try the med.  If you experience no side effects within the first two weeks, you'll never will.

Why not try doing the other modalities available to you? PRP, Laser along with the Minoxidil? There is documented synergism when used simultaneously.  

[Twentyfive25]

43 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

The only way to confirm is to try the med.  If you experience no side effects within the first two weeks, you'll never will.

Why not try doing the other modalities available to you? PRP, Laser along with the Minoxidil? There is documented synergism when used simultaneously.  

Forgive my ignorance but how will knowing about it in the first two weeks help? If I get permanent sexual side effects or grow breasts that require expensive surgery to remove? The damage is done by that point, surely?

I did look into PRP and Laser. Ultimately, the issue with those is cost. They're very expensive. Laser is thousands I think for the complete course as well as being an enormous inconvenience having to go for treatments so regularly.

[LaserCaps]

Typically, if you do experience a side effect, all will return the normal when you stop the med.  I have never seen a patient experience a permanent side effect with any med. Perhaps others can chime in and give their opinion. Are you under the guidance of a doctor? Perhaps visiting with one and reviewing all your options may be a good idea.

You can purchase a laser - do it a home.  Yes, they can be expensive.  

[Twentyfive25]

16 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

Typically, if you do experience a side effect, all will return the normal when you stop the med.  I have never seen a patient experience a permanent side effect with any med. Perhaps others can chime in and give their opinion. Are you under the guidance of a doctor? Perhaps visiting with one and reviewing all your options may be a good idea.

You can purchase a laser - do it a home.  Yes, they can be expensive.  

Well it's just that I have read reports like this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2929552/

That talk about quite severe cases of side effects in otherwise healthy people that still persisted months and years after the stopped taking the drug. That's an enormous red flag for me.

[LaserCaps]

Let's get back to basics.  When I first entered this industry we were visited regularly by the Merck reps.  It was indicated to us that people taking Proscar to treat prostate issues were returning to their doctor with more hair.  So Merck did a study and found that 8/10 of a mg was what was needed to experience this side effect, (more hair). Since people do not typically understand 10ths of milligrams, Merck came up with a 1mg tab, (Propecia).  The side effect we learned about back then was loss in interest when it comes to sex - less than 1%.  (Proscar is 5X the dose - so does that mean that the millions of people using Proscar are 5X more likely to experience the side effect? If so, why would so many be on the med)?

Yes, they do talk about 2 cases, (out of millions)? So, does that fall under the "less than 1% of patients?"

It has been years since this med was first introduced and it seems more and more side effects are talked about.  Some are well documented and are quite real.  I would discuss them thoroughly with your doctor and then decide if retaining your hair is worth it. 

It seems all meds have side effects - or it surely seems so.  So take any sickness....Is it worth taking it given the possible side effects?  Other than death.....

[JDEE0]

Whilst I disagree that you won't ever experience side effects if you don't in the first 2 weeks, you're not going to develop breast tissue from gyno in a matter of days to weeks. You'd need to take it for months and months to notice anything different. 

Gyno is indeed a real potential side effect, albeit pretty rare, from the use of finasteride. It's the only side effect that you can actually say will likely persist after discontinuation. It can happen due to the fact that fin leaves you with more overall Testosterone than previously which can disproportionally aromatase to Estrogen as a result and leave your T to E ratio out of balance a bit.

The study you linked (which isn't great scientifically just as a side note as it's not controlled and merely relies on self reporting... we have no idea if people already had gyno before, if they were/are overweight, if they are blaming something that already existed before on fin as they are now hyper-aware of due to reading about sides and so on) even shows the rates to be basically 40 out of 15,000.

I really don't go around worrying about things with these sorts of odds in life in general, most things are far more dangerous than you think, including many of the routine medications you will take, daily actives you will do, and routine medical procedures you will undergo. Some antibiotics have similar statistical rates for inducing life threatening  and completely life altering conditions, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them. 

Of course fin is for pure 'vanity' reasons if you want to call it that, my only point is that this is a medication, none of them come without any potential for side effects. You're saying a 0.3% risk of gyno is an 'enormous red flag', which I disagree with. If you don't want to take even very small risks for hair, then I can respect that as it is just hair at the end of the day, but you said it yourself, you're losing the battle. As the old saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it.

As for PFS, the evidence is severely lacking in that department and the vast majority of medical figures don't believe it to be a real condition. Maybe it is, who knows, I'm personally not convinced at all either, but even so, it would have to be so rare that I wouldn't ever lose a wink of sleep over it. Again, it's a risk to reward ratio like anything in life at the end of the day, if you really don't want to lose your hair, then what else are you gonna do?

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by JDEE0

[Gokuhairline]

there have been reports of people getting destroyed after just 1 1mg pill....good luck and be careful...and topical can also get systemic

[Twentyfive25]

17 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

Whilst I disagree that you won't ever experience side effects if you don't in the first 2 weeks, you're not going to develop breast tissue from gyno in a matter of days to weeks. You'd need to take it for months and months to notice anything different. 

Gyno is indeed a real potential side effect, albeit pretty rare, from the use of finasteride. It's the only side effect that you can actually say will likely persist after discontinuation. It can happen due to the fact that fin leaves you with more overall Testosterone than previously which can disproportionally aromatase to Estrogen as a result and leave your T to E ratio out of balance a bit.

The study you linked (which isn't great scientifically just as a side note as it's not controlled and merely relies on self reporting... we have no idea if people already had gyno before, if they were/are overweight, if they are blaming something that already existed before on fin as they are now hyper-aware of due to reading about sides and so on) even shows the rates to be basically 40 out of 15,000.

I really don't go around worrying about things with these sorts of odds in life in general, most things are far more dangerous than you think, including many of the routine medications you will take, daily actives you will do, and routine medical procedures you will undergo. Some antibiotics have similar statistical rates for inducing life threatening  and completely life altering conditions, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them. 

Of course fin is for pure 'vanity' reasons if you want to call it that, my only point is that this is a medication, none of them come without any potential for side effects. You're saying a 0.3% risk of gyno is an 'enormous red flag', which I disagree with. If you don't want to take even very small risks for hair, then I can respect that as it is just hair at the end of the day, but you said it yourself, you're losing the battle. As the old saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it.

As for PFS, the evidence is severely lacking in that department and the vast majority of medical figures don't believe it to be a real condition. Maybe it is, who knows, I'm personally not convinced at all either, but even so, it would have to be so rare that I wouldn't ever lose a wink of sleep over it. Again, it's a risk to reward ratio like anything in life at the end of the day, if you really don't want to lose your hair, then what else are you gonna do?

 

Thanks, you seem well-versed on the topic and you're right regarding the risk factors with other drugs.

I think I'm most concerned about the possibility of effects being permanent or at least very long-lasting. I understand the evidence around long-term PFS is pretty weak but gyno is a build-up of tissue, right? That tissue won't go away if you stop the drug will it? So if I am unlucky and get it, I either have to pay for very expensive surgery or live with man boobs. That's what is a red flag for me. Side effects that won't go away if I stop taking it.

[JDEE0]

4 minutes ago, Twentyfive25 said:

Thanks, you seem well-versed on the topic and you're right regarding the risk factors with other drugs.

I think I'm most concerned about the possibility of effects being permanent or at least very long-lasting. I understand the evidence around long-term PFS is pretty weak but gyno is a build-up of tissue, right? That tissue won't go away if you stop the drug will it? So if I am unlucky and get it, I either have to pay for very expensive surgery or live with man boobs. That's what is a red flag for me. Side effects that won't go away if I stop taking it.

Yeah, it's a build up of glandular and other tissues that make up breast tissue. These are saturated with hormone receptors and so they can grow once Estrogen binds to them. 

Depends, if you caught it early, then it might well reverse itself, but yeah generally it probably wouldn't just spontaneously reverse upon stopping if it had developed to a certain point. And, people often think that surgery is the only route, but from what I've learned, there are options out there medication wise that could be tried first and can be successful. If not, then yes, you would require surgery to get rid of it, but it's not a big deal of a surgery either way (although I also wouldn't want to have to get it either - just saying). 

And yeah I get that, it's a decision for you to make personally and weigh up the pro's and con's. Personally, if I was that bothered about it, I would just begin fin and then pay a visit to the doc for a check up every month and maybe get some imaging done with a mammogram or something to monitor and be sure. 

 

[Twentyfive25]

10 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

Yeah, it's a build up of glandular and other tissues that make up breast tissue. These are saturated with hormone receptors and so they can grow once Estrogen binds to them. 

Depends, if you caught it early, then it might well reverse itself, but yeah generally it probably wouldn't just spontaneously reverse upon stopping if it had developed to a certain point. And, people often think that surgery is the only route, but from what I've learned, there are options out there medication wise that could be tried first and can be successful. If not, then yes, you would require surgery to get rid of it, but it's not a big deal of a surgery either way (although I also wouldn't want to have to get it either - just saying). 

And yeah I get that, it's a decision for you to make personally and weigh up the pro's and con's. Personally, if I was that bothered about it, I would just begin fin and then pay a visit to the doc for a check up every month and maybe get some imaging done with a mammogram or something to monitor and be sure. 

 

Yeah I hear you. All those things are quite expensive though. We have healthcare here but it doesn't include anything cosmetic. To get them to check it for free I guess I would need to lie about not taking anything and make out that I was concerned it was something more serious.

[Balding Bad]

16 hours ago, Twentyfive25 said:

Thanks, you seem well-versed on the topic and you're right regarding the risk factors with other drugs.

I think I'm most concerned about the possibility of effects being permanent or at least very long-lasting. I understand the evidence around long-term PFS is pretty weak but gyno is a build-up of tissue, right? That tissue won't go away if you stop the drug will it? So if I am unlucky and get it, I either have to pay for very expensive surgery or live with man boobs. That's what is a red flag for me. Side effects that won't go away if I stop taking it.

Your profile photo is of Peter Griffin and you're concerned about getting manhoods? Sorry, but you probably already have 'em! 😆

[dagwood]

edit

Edited November 11, 2021 by dagwood

[HairRun]

If you do try it, you could microdose with topical and see how it goes. Something like 0.1% application once a week. Topical gets less systemic than oral.