Why Dr Maral is not operating FUE?

[justanotherguy]

Boom.

 

 

 

Good day all plebeians, some info for you,

 

I'm just a man from England but I keep smelling rats....

Rahal's practice, and multiple surgeries on the same day, doctor attending other surgeries, all technician extractions and implantation's, new faces, new-training technicians.....

It is known that this practice is common for all recommended/coalition physicians and those physicians are mostly not plastic surgeons. I think Maral deserves membership more than the others. I experienced him and his team, his practice and ask this to KO, BUSA, Charlie; did you have any experience with Maral and his team? If not, please give it a rest, you are just repeating yourself you are really showing your prejudice and becoming unsavory - your input is looking decidedly biased.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/162401-my-fue-dr-rahal-3000-grafts-large-procedure-38.html

1st FUE:

-most extractions were done by a lead technician, who was very new to FUE extractions/learning, some were done by the doctor. Doctor was also attending other surgeries.

-the Harris SAFE punch system motorized tool was used.

.8mm punches were used, some at .9mm supposadly

-doctor made incisions

-2 technicians placed grafts (one technician was new to Dr. Rahal's clinic from US, white) and one was an older Asian lady

-1 other new technician was holding, passing grafts to these other techs, rising the operating table chair, up and down and positioning.

-more than one surgery was going on

-clinic was small to mid size , 2 - or maybe 3 operating rooms?

 

2nd FUE Repair

-the same lead tech from first procedure was extracting my grafts about 60% and doctor did the rest. this time he did seem to be more confident, needing no instruction. doctor again was attending to other surgeries.

-the same FUE motorized extraction tool was used, .8mm punch sizes used as confirmed by clinic (like last time)

-doctor made incisions

-for recipient graft placement, did not see same new white technician from US from last time, other then the two Asian ones, and another newer face from last time,

-the younger Asian one that rose my chair up and down last procedure seemed to be partaking in surgeries now

-this clinic is a lot bigger, more than 3 operating rooms, a lot more techs working there, some newer faces.

-more than one procedure going on same time as mine

-definitly less backbreaking for me as I didnt have to be in the chair for such a long time, but again this is a streneous procedure to go through

[justanotherguy]

Britboy, as far as I can understand, although charlyboy or popdaddy are not patients of Maral, they won't stop manipulating his threads. Because, that's not what they are trying to do.. (I have mixed feelings about KO, although he stated that he is not impartial, he doesn't seem to be working for someone either)

 

To this point, the mood they were trying to create was that the practices of Maral regarding to his use of his technicians were aberrant and diverge from other doctors. Now, what you are saying is other doctors are using technicians in their operations to a certain extent and even to the same extent that Maral does. One is more, one is less. Maral is using them in a way that, he is enabling many more people to have hair transplant without spending a fortune on it with his competitive prices, as Ford did with Model T almost a century ago. And so far, almost all patients seem to be happy with it.

 

The problem with this forum is different though. Britboy is a patient, abcd was a patient, I am a prospective patient. We will post a couple of posts and leave this forum after having our surgery. We have jobs. But these people will stay here forever, trying to manipulate people as it seems this is their full time job. And in this case, since Maral is providing hair transplant for inexpensive prices, the blatant attacks from his competitors will never stop..

 

 

Good day all plebeians, some info for you,

 

I'm just a man from England but I keep smelling rats....

Rahal's practice, and multiple surgeries on the same day, doctor attending other surgeries, all technician extractions and implantation's, new faces, new-training technicians.....

It is known that this practice is common for all recommended/coalition physicians and those physicians are mostly not plastic surgeons. I think Maral deserves membership more than the others. I experienced him and his team, his practice and ask this to KO, BUSA, Charlie; did you have any experience with Maral and his team? If not, please give it a rest, you are just repeating yourself you are really showing your prejudice and becoming unsavory - your input is looking decidedly biased.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/162401-my-fue-dr-rahal-3000-grafts-large-procedure-38.html

1st FUE:

-most extractions were done by a lead technician, who was very new to FUE extractions/learning, some were done by the doctor. Doctor was also attending other surgeries.

-the Harris SAFE punch system motorized tool was used.

.8mm punches were used, some at .9mm supposadly

-doctor made incisions

-2 technicians placed grafts (one technician was new to Dr. Rahal's clinic from US, white) and one was an older Asian lady

-1 other new technician was holding, passing grafts to these other techs, rising the operating table chair, up and down and positioning.

-more than one surgery was going on

-clinic was small to mid size , 2 - or maybe 3 operating rooms?

 

2nd FUE Repair

-the same lead tech from first procedure was extracting my grafts about 60% and doctor did the rest. this time he did seem to be more confident, needing no instruction. doctor again was attending to other surgeries.

-the same FUE motorized extraction tool was used, .8mm punch sizes used as confirmed by clinic (like last time)

-doctor made incisions

-for recipient graft placement, did not see same new white technician from US from last time, other then the two Asian ones, and another newer face from last time,

-the younger Asian one that rose my chair up and down last procedure seemed to be partaking in surgeries now

-this clinic is a lot bigger, more than 3 operating rooms, a lot more techs working there, some newer faces.

-more than one procedure going on same time as mine

-definitly less backbreaking for me as I didnt have to be in the chair for such a long time, but again this is a streneous procedure to go through

[1966kph]

I believe Ko is not a rep of any clinic and he has his own personal opinions.

And whilst he has in his own words actively tried to stop people going to maral he has no hidden agenda but strongly believes as is the same with future ht and others that marals way of ht is wrong.

But they are totally stead fast on their point of view which is perfectly understandable.

All I have ever done is voice my concern that the clinic and its patients have been treated without due respect.

Let the clinic go through the pre screening and if bill and pat see if the clinic is up to their exacting standards and take it from their.

For all we know the clinic might fall well short of what is required but at least they should be allowed to present its case to be judged upon.

Were is the harm in that?

Patients happy with their results should never have led us to were we find ourselves.

And it is becoming more apparent that several clinics do not differ that much to maral in the way they practice yet all this scorn for maral..

Justanother you like many or should I say most people can see through all the balloni and see what's going on I think your above posts put it very well.

All have a nice day

[Blake Bloxham]

Allow me to address some of the comments/concerns:

 

1. The moderators - David and myself - are not giving this issue any less attention because we don't agree with it ethically. The OP didn't start a thread defaming Maral Klinik. He created a thread to ask several questions. Frankly, I answered these right away and the case could have been closed "then and there." Question his motives if you'd like, but it's not correct to say that the moderators "aren't doing anything about this" for any other reason aside from the fact that the OP didn't break any forum rules. Give me proof that he works for some other clinic or any example of where he violated our terms of service, and I'll intervene.

 

2. I have no idea why Dr. Rahal was dragged into this thread, but let me analyze these two situations:

 

I understand the point being made: Rahal uses nurses/techs in extraction and he isn't being persecuted for it; other doctors do it, so why is Maral catching so much heat?

 

Frankly, I disagree with the comparison. Here's why:

 

In the description of the first FUE session, the OP says a new technician was doing SOME of the extractions while being partially supervised by the physician. So, one technician was participating in the extraction process while being supervised, and the doctor was doing extractions as well. This sounds quite different than the descriptions I've heard of Maral procedures. I was under the impression that Dr. Maral is not physically in the procedural room, nor does he do any extractions himself. Am I correct? So a new technician - clearly training - under close supervision by the doctor with the surgeon extracting grafts himself compared to a scenario where the doctor is not extracting grafts or supervising the technicians??? I suppose you could make the "new technicians versus no new technicians at Maral" argument, but I don't think we actually have much objective proof of this. Also, I have to image that Maral hires new technicians on a fairly regular basis. How do these individuals train?

 

Another very important point in the first procedure description is "doctor made incisions." At Maral clinic, this aspect of the surgery is performed by technicians.

 

The description of the second procedure seems to add more evidence to my point: now the doctor is performing 40% of the extractions himself - whereas Dr. Maral does not perform any extractions, the technician improved which means he/she was training and this training was supervised ethically by Dr. Rahal, and the doctor made the incision sites .

 

Frankly, I still don't see this as very relevant. Based upon the description of a Rahal procedure versus a Maral klinik procedure, there is still a HUGE difference with respect to physician involvement. I think Dr. Rahal's approach is a perfect example of what Bill and Pat describe as "ok:" technicians as part of a physician led team and/or technicians being closely supervised and managed by a physician. This is very different - as I understand it - from what happens at Maral klinik. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. However, let's limit this discussion to Maral's procedures/patients. I don't think we really need to drag other physicians into this situation. We've thoroughly reviewed the practices of the clinics we currently recommend

 

3. I think we need to stop it with the dramatic extremes. It seems like people either despite or violently defend Maral klinik. In most situations like this, the truth lies somewhere in between. Do I support technician-driven procedures? No. Do I think Maral klinik is out there hurting people? No. Do I think we need to compare Dr. Maral to Henry Ford? No. I think we need to be a bit less dramatic. It will help keep these discussions more civil and relevant. At this point, I think it's the only thing that will keep discussions from being locked.

 

4. Please stop with the baseless accusations. Thus far, we have no proof that really anyone is being paid or manipulated to post information for or against Maral klinik. We've checked for duplicate IP addresses and even researched and discussed accusations about paid shills, and thus far nothing has been found. Think what you'd like, but discuss the facts. Also, no need to accuse me, Dave, or Bill of foul play. I actually think we've been very honest with our personal opinions and very fair with respect to open/honest discussion. Bill even reopened a previously locked thread and allowed Mikro to address negative criticism by sharing images. If we really had some inherent bias or ulterior agenda, there would be much easier ways to simply stop the discussion. As you see, we haven't done that - nor will we.

 

Thanks.

[britboy]

Britboy, as far as I can understand, although charlyboy or popdaddy are not patients of Maral, they won't stop manipulating his threads. Because, that's not what they are trying to do.. (I have mixed feelings about KO, although he stated that he is not impartial, he doesn't seem to be working for someone either)

 

To this point, the mood they were trying to create was that the practices of Maral regarding to his use of his technicians were aberrant and diverge from other doctors. Now, what you are saying is other doctors are using technicians in their operations to a certain extent and even to the same extent that Maral does. One is more, one is less. Maral is using them in a way that, he is enabling many more people to have hair transplant without spending a fortune on it with his competitive prices, as Ford did with Model T almost a century ago. And so far, almost all patients seem to be happy with it.

 

The problem with this forum is different though. Britboy is a patient, abcd was a patient, I am a prospective patient. We will post a couple of posts and leave this forum after having our surgery. We have jobs. But these people will stay here forever, trying to manipulate people as it seems this is their full time job. And in this case, since Maral is providing hair transplant for inexpensive prices, the blatant attacks from his competitors will never stop..

 

Ive heard of all this and while some may or may not be working for others, I have heard that trolls just love to destroy, and a I am a customer of Marals and happy at this time this endless abuse is completely unacceptable on here and I am also about to end my membership, I did not sign up for this pathetic childish immature attacks directly or indirectly against against happy clients and competent surgeons, Make a point and move on is my motto. This endless onslaught is D I S G U S T I N G. . . Soon this forum will fall into complete anarchy unless it is curbed.

[1966kph]

Good morning future I hope you had a good weekend.

Thank you for once again being dragged into another debarkle of a thread and giving your response.

Just as you need to take my word for why i am on almost every maral thread defending this clinic from what I believe are unfair attacks you have no way of knowing who the posters are.

Thank you for pointing out that at least some attempt has been made to look for evidence of skullduggery.

But it is so easy in this world in which we live in to become virtually unidentifiable.

All charlyboys posts aimed fairly and squarely at maral there's no coincidence.

In the quote highlighted by britboy there is no HUGE difference and it does highlight many of the things maral has been taking flack for.

1 There are several procedures going on at the same time.

2 the lead technician did most Of the extractions and with marals its all the extractions.

But you make little of these slight differences and go on to say maral may change techs regularly but the way I understand it marals least experienced technicians has 4 years experience and the lead technician 11 years on what evidence did you base your assumption?

If as with many clinics Dr maral did a 10th of the actual work. Let's say the hairline incisions would your opinion be any less scathing of his practice? If not you should show the same amount of concern for the other practice's with this working practice.

I have never indicated that bill is anything but totally impartial and the fact is unlike yourself he knows what it is to suffer hair loss and unlike you he does not feel so strongly about drs being hands on but is more interested in the results.

The only accusation I have levelled at you is your impartiality may have prevented you from moderating the posts of obvious agenda driven posters.

The world of hair restoration has always been a cut throat industry which I believed had become a lot better within the last 10 years or so.It seems the techniques have come a long way but the industry itself remains a money driven environment of greed and it seems this will not change.

What has been pointed out in the last few posts are relevant in the fact that we as hair loss sufferers are constantly being made aware of things we didn't think happened in other clinics as with the amount of technicians involvement.

Some of us I believe are starting to see through all the crap and getting a clearer picture of were this industry as a whole is.

I don't defend the maral clinic I defend the right for ALL to be heard with the only reward being a sense of satisfaction that I believe I'm doing the right thing.

Have a good day all

Edited November 24, 2014 by 1966kph

[charlyboy]

Thank you Blake. As mentioned in my previous post I think it is Unfair towards recommended members of this forum if you don't delete the posts on patient's threads posted by MirkoFUE. Posting detailed information and images has also breached forum's rules I think.

 

I have made a list of all the threads. Thank you!

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177213-4200-grafts-fue-dr-maral-2.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173948-my-fue-operation-maral-clinic-6.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173845-my-3500grafts-fue-dr-maral-istanbul-22.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/170482-fue-booked-dr-maral-turkey-21.html

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174447-4000-fue-grafts-dr-maral-11.html

 

 

I am on my FUE patients payroll

[1966kph]

Charlyboy BLAH BLAH BLAH. post then go off line immediately and let chaos ensue.

You have made a really good contribution to this forum.

You've been rumbled everyone knows what your up to.

And all you've managed to achieve is keeping marals clinic at the top of the page something you were complaining about.

Such wisdom.

Well said britboy.

How many lives have been lost at the hands greed?

If the ht industry was full of drs who actually care more about the patient than acquiring wealth this would only go to benefit the patient.

Along comes along a new clinic with a new approach at very good prices and the potential wealth of others is under threat and this is what happens( it fights back )

Britboy we don't get to our ages without having learnt a thing or two but I'm not going anywhere until some kind of closure on this matter because I feel so strongly about it.

Sometimes we have to make a stand against wrong doing even if the personnel cost is great.

You have a nice day and enjoy your hair you bugger.

[justanotherguy]

Ive heard of all this and while some may or may not be working for others, I have heard that trolls just love to destroy, and a I am a customer of Marals and happy at this time this endless abuse is completely unacceptable on here and I am also about to end my membership, I did not sign up for this pathetic childish immature attacks directly or indirectly against against happy clients and competent surgeons, Make a point and move on is my motto. This endless onslaught is D I S G U S T I N G. . . Soon this forum will fall into complete anarchy unless it is curbed.

 

Same here. I am ending it now.

 

Thanks for sharing your procedure though. I have read all the things you have posted so far, your process was very inspiring and helpful for the community. I am not gonna post mine though. I don't wanna face the same pathetic oppositions..

[KO]

1966kph seems to think that "everyone has a right to be heard" implies that we must all say good things about the clinic. He keeps posting the same stuff, ignoring the fact that Maral clinic has gotten the chance to explain themselves and defend their point of view. The reality is that while 1966 wants to talk about how this industry is money-driven, he again deliberately ignores that Maral Klinik is the same way - running an assembly line with techs while doctor is doing something else.

 

Furthermore, if patients are allowed to promote the clinic, the clinic is allowed to promote itself, then members also have a right to criticize the clinic.

[MikroFUE]

Maral clinic has gotten the chance to explain themselves and defend their point of view.

Furthermore, if patients are allowed to promote the clinic, the clinic is allowed to promote itself, then members also have a right to criticize the clinic.

 

We can only defend ourselves by posting explanations, showing results, showing immediate postop pictures explaining what we did at the surgery. We hope membership will provide this.

 

And you can criticize our completed results of course, completed by explanations also. Do you have any criticism on any of them, by comparing with the results from similar cases?

[1966kph]

You think me saying that everyone has a right to be heard implies you all have to say good things about the clinic.

How do you come to that conclusion?

When have i ever said that maral clinic is not in it for the money they are part of the same industry.its a business people are in business to make money.FACT

Please try and use facts and a modicum of common sense in your reasoning.

It is becoming more apparent that several clinics do not differ that much from marals clinic.

Assumptions are not facts please do not try and tell me what you think I am thinking.

Have a nice day

Edited November 24, 2014 by 1966kph

[MikroFUE]

Blake: Also, I have to image that Maral hires new technicians on a fairly regular basis.

 

 

This is just an image or misunderstanding. We do not hire somebody else. And all channels are opened by our chief technician, She has 11 years of experience in every techniques and steps of HT and is Dr. Maral's partner. Graft extraction and implantation team members have 6-10 years of experience. Maral Klinik does not give any training for the beginners. Team is constant for the last 4 years.

 

Genuine patients posted many times their positive comments and experiences for the professionalism of the Maral Klinik HT team.

[KO]

You think me saying that everyone has a right to be heard implies you all have to say good things about the clinic.

How do you come to that conclusion?

When have i ever said that maral clinic is not in it for the money they are part of the same industry.its a business people are in business to make money.FACT

Please try and use facts and a modicum of common sense in your reasoning.

It is becoming more apparent that several clinics do not differ that much from marals clinic.

Assumptions are not facts please do not try and tell me what you think I am thinking.

Have a nice day

 

You keep saying that Maral Klinik has a right to be heard - they have been given that right to be heard, but it seems like you are more interested in silencing criticism. So what exactly is your goal? You don't like the fact that people don't like Maral's way of operating? You don't like the fact that people point out MikroFUE's behavior?

 

My POV has been clear and explicit.

[sj14]

I don't know if you know this, but there is life outside of the internet. You sound quite stressed and bitter. You should get outside and fly a kite some time, I bet you will feel quite better

[1966kph]

Thats right KO avoid the question.

Here it is again for you.

 

You think me saying that everyone has a right to be heard implies you all have to say good things about the clinic.

How do you come to that conclusion?

When have i ever said that maral clinic is not in it for the money? they are part of the same industry.its a business people are in business to make money.FACT.

 

But to be honest your answers carry no meaning as your total lack of impartiality as clearly stating that you are [ actively trying to stop people from going to maral ] shows.

without impartiality you have no objectivity there fore its just pointless trying to debate anything logically with you.

You have a nice day all the same

[KO]

1966kph, what is your goal? Maral Klinik has been given space to be heard, yet you are complaining. What is it that you want?

[britboy]

I believe Farjo Clinic in Manchester also hire Lorenzo for the operations, I had researched this about a year ago, I was considering to go here, but considering Lorenzo's own clinic is in Madrid I do not know if it is legal or not, but for sure, people who have operations here pay for also the Clinic commission and Consultation FEE of I think 100 or 150 UK pounds.

 

Also Lorenzo's students are opening new clinics in other countries, so are all of these recommended ones already?

[1966kph]

It is being heard your right.

But yet again no answers to the 2 simple questions I asked you but you replied asking questions.

Its all been said before about marals clinic and the way it operates for which it has been attacked again and again then it comes to light that other clinics are not to different.

One glaring difference is the hostility.

I have said time and time again that we all deserve to be heard now you tell me what is wrong with that.

It does not matter whether it is good or bad as long as it is a factually correct valid unbiased point of view that has relavence to what is being discussed.

My goal is that this or any other clinic get a fair hearing that's all.

Have a good day

[charlyboy]

1966kph I think you should chill out son. You are making things worse for Maral Clinic. They have chosen the wrong person to defend them.

Fair hearing? Who said they won't get a fair hearing? I am sure they will get a fair hearing from the moderators and everyone else who is involved to decide whether they qualify to be recommended.

 

Chill out son.

Have a good day

 

Anlayamıyorum

[MikroFUE]

If you have "ı" in your keyboard, you understand me.

[1966kph]

All of a sudden you change your attitude.

That is all I have asked for a fair hearing for all.

And don't worry about me I could not get any more chilled I live not to far from Scotland which as you know is rather chilly.

And I doubt very much I am old enough to be your son in fact its probably the other way round I guess.

Have a good day.

[MikroFUE]

Dear Member,

We have just received this message from a genuine patient, do you wanna a screenshot to prove? Thank you for your support.

 

I have read everything that is written in the Hair Restoration Network forum about you and also your representatives answers (MikroFUE).

As mentioned before, you seem to be an honest man and I trust you and believe you will do a great job. And if I am satisfied with your work I will definitely recommend you to all my friends and cousines and write good about you.

 

We get our power from our genuine patients. You? Your quality will also be determined when time comes. Membership will not add a quality but, for both of us.

 

Your last chance and a deal for you now; Bury Charliguy immediately now. We will be forgiving.

 

If you continue, you will be asked to expose yourself, you can not carry on this forever. Me and our patients are genuine, they may expose themselves if moderators ask. Can you do this?

[KO]

You are way out of place in ordering this forum to "bury" charlyguy, or threatening him for that matter.

[sj14]

You are way out of place in ordering this forum to "bury" charlyguy, or threatening him for that matter.

 

Are you the internet police? :rolleyes: