1 euro per graft strip, 2 euro - fue

[Talizi]

Patient, male, Georgia, 5th grade by Norwood, 50 years. Before and 12 months after transplant of 3500 grafts using strip method. One session.

 

 

[Talizi]

Patient, male, Armenia, 25 years, 6th grade by Norwood, before, during and 2 months after transplant of 6200 grafts using strip method in one session.

 

On big photo (see link below) you can see that there are 1- 2- 3- and 4-hair grafts transplanted, so we do not separate grafts.

 

Before

 

 

 

Holes created

 

 

 

 

After hair transplant

 

 

See same photo with big resolution

 

 

And 2 months after

 

 

 

[Talizi]

Patient, Male, Kazakhstan, 6th grade by Norwood, 42 years, before and 9 months after transplant of 4600 grafts using strip method in one session.

 

 

 

[Bill - Seemiller]

Talizi,

 

Several of these appear to be nice looking results and/or results in the making. Unfortunately however, some of the photos are relatively blurry and harder to appreciate and evaluate.

 

If you are still interested in being considered for recommendation however, you will want to post photos in the "Results Posted by Leading Hair Transplant Clinics" section of the forum. For tips on presenting realistic and compelling photos, click here.

 

All the Best,

 

Bill

[linchpin]

I’ve just been to the Talizi clinic, I’ve had my transplant and arrived home two days ago. I’m very pleased with the whole process (this is my second transplant, the first was in London 3 years ago) and I’m surprised the clinic isn’t better known.

 

When I was researching clinics this time around I came across Talizi and what appeared to be amazing prices for transplants, but when I looked around the internet I could hardly find any information in English about them. In the end, after much searching and a considerable amount of emailing the clinic back and forth to check them out, I decided to take the plunge and head there for my procedure. Having just returned this week I thought it would be a good idea to give a full account of my experience for anyone else who might be looking for information about this clinic.

 

This might get a bit longwinded at times, but I think it’s worth going through the whole trip in detail because some people (me included) might be wary about travelling to a country like Georgia, so a little extra background detail might be helpful for some.

 

The cost of a procedure at the Talizi clinic includes pickup/dropoff at the airport, the hotel stay and also a one-day ‘tour’ around the sights of Tbilisi. I was happy for the airport pickup because the flights from London get in at 3am, and on my arrival I was happy to see there was indeed someone waiting there for me. We stepped out of the airport and into the hot Tblisi night air (it was over 30 degrees C, even at this time of night).

 

After setting off in a nice new Mercedes MPV we went on a rapid drive-by of the city’s main sights on the way to the hotel. It struck me as a rather elegant city, a little bit like Rome. The hotel was pleasant in an old-world kind of way. Huge rooms, clean and with private bathroom, and two huge lobbies full of antique furniture. I had agreed with the clinic’s director that I would have my procedure the next day, so I needed to get some sleep. (it was up to me which day the procedure was done, but I saw no reason to delay). I would be met at the hotel at 11am after breakfast by one of the clinic staff, who would take me there.

 

Sure enough, bang on 11 o’clock I was met by Aleko, who walked with me the 150 metres or so to the clinic. There I met the director and chief surgeon, Akaki Tsilosani. He’s about 40 years old, friendly and likeable, and he speaks English well enough to hold a decent conversation.

 

The first order of the day was to examine my scalp to determine which areas we thought needed to be transplanted, but also to work out what sort of density I had in the donor area at the back of my head. This would determine the maximum number of grafts that could be achieved in one session. The process was not hurried; there was plenty of time to ask all the questions I wanted, to examine some of the results from previous patients and to look around the clinic – which, by the way, is modern and spotlessly clean. There was also time to meet some other members of staff (only a few of them speak English), as well as some time to relax with a cup of tea. Dr Tsilosani uses a clever computer system to calculate the donor density, and he explained the whole process to me as he went along.

 

Eventually we had some numbers to go on, and Akaki told me he was sure he could harvest 3300 grafts for transplantation. The cost would be 3800 Euros, in accordance with the prices I had been given before my visit. He then guaranteed that I would get at least this many – and any extra would be given to me for free. (This is in contrast to the procedure I had 3 years before in London, where they fell short of the number of grafts I paid for, but I wasn’t given any kind of refund for the difference).

 

So, on to the surgery room. By this time there were about a dozen people in attendance, mostly nurses, and all of them present on my behalf as I was the only patient. It was clear that they were all well-trained, and clinical standards of cleanliness were strictly observed – full theatre aprons, gloves, masks and shoe coverings, and all dressings etc. were in brand-new packaging. The full deal.

 

First of all came the anaesthesia. Apart from a slight prick from the first couple of jabs, the rest were totally painless. It is a very strange sensation, having your head numbed as more and more liquid is injected, and your head feels like a football after a few minutes. But not painful at all.

 

Next came the FUE extractions. We had agreed that most of the grafts would be extracted using the Strip Method, but a small number would be done using FUE to supplement the total. These would come first, and I had to lay on my front for about an hour while the extractions were made. Again this was totally painless, except for the fact that I was lying on my bladder after being asked to drink plenty of liquids, meaning that I was desperate to relieve myself half way through!

 

After this was another tea break (there were lots of these) and then I had to lie down again for the strip extraction. This took about an hour again, and there was no discomfort at all. Following this there was quite a longer break while the nurses were busy separating the follicles so they could be implanted one by one. I had a chance to watch them doing this, and there were 7 or 8 nurses all peering into stereo microscopes, placing each graft onto a petri dish before going into a fridge (I think there’s a picture of this on their website).

 

Next came the creation of the implant sites. It appears Dr Tsilosani has developed a number of new techniques to improve the transplanting process, and this was noticeable in the creation of these sites. The process seemed much more speedy, accurate and painless than it had done during my first transplant. Akaki explained to me how I could expect to have better results with faster healing, greater density and less trauma than normal, and after seeing his methods and making the comparison with my last transplant I fully agree. He also has an electronic system that automatically counts the number of recipient sites, so you don’t have to take the doctor’s word for it. I tried counting along for a while to see if the system was accurate, and it really is. The recipient sites were all aligned with my own hair in each particular area so that it will grow out in the same direction as the existing hair around it. He explained some of his research to me, and apparently it is an ongoing process of developing new techniques that improve the procedure and give him an advantage over other clinics. Having experienced it for myself, I would have to agree.

 

The implantation came next, and this involved me sitting in a chair, watching TV while five nurses hovered around me implanting the individual follicular units (unfortunately there was only one channel in English – BBC News). They have a system for distributing the different types of graft in different parts of the scalp to increase the naturalness of the result. In the end I received 3,360 grafts which was 60 more than I paid for. This all took about two hours, after which I was bandaged and ready to go. So the whole operation from start to finish had taken about 4 or 5 hours in total. The level of professionalism had been outstanding throughout (and I suppose it needs to be, if they want to draw customers from around the world).

 

I was taken back to the hotel, where a dinner of roast chicken and potato wedges was waiting for me when I arrived. After that, straight to my room. I had made arrangements to visit the clinic in the morning for a shampoo, after which I would be taken for my free tour. It was up to me to choose where I wanted to go, but I opted for a trip up into the Caucasus Mountains about 60 miles away, as I could look around Tbilisi on my own with my remaining time left.

 

Georgia, I was surprised to find, is a lovely country. After the Soviet breakup in the early 90’s there were problems with corruption and separatism movements, however they have firmly extinguished all of these and now the country is stable and law-abiding. The people I came across were incredibly friendly and welcoming, and I discovered that Georgia is now a very safe place for locals and tourists alike. Tbilisi is an elegant, cosmopolitan city with wide tree-lined avenues, and felt very safe even when walking around on my own at night. In fact, the most notable danger was from traffic, as Georgian men seem to have a habit of driving at speed whilst talking on their mobile phone. Zebra crossings are ignored by drivers, though they scrupulously obey traffic lights.

 

On the tour I was whisked out of the city with Gyorgi my guide and Aleko the driver, who was the same person who had collected me from the hotel each day. We drove along the ‘Russian Military Highway’ which is the old road linking Tbilisi with Russia on the other side of the mountains. We stopped at some old churches on the way, and eventually went up into the hills where we had a very nice barbecue over an open fire. There was time for plenty of conversation and toasting with Georgian wine (in Georgia, toasting is a national pastime and is done at the drop of a hat - fortunately the wine is excellent). So I discovered a lot about Georgia and its history, and came to like the country and its people even more.

 

Apologies if this is beginning to sound like a travelogue, but the thing is that although my reason for going there was simply to have an operation, I was made so welcome and had such a good time that it became an enjoyable holiday too, and I felt as though I had made some friends along the way. I wish I’d stayed longer. Anyhow, that’s about it for the trip – I had one more visit to the clinic the next morning, just to have a quick check-up with Akaki. Everything looked great, he said, so I was free to spend the rest of the day as a tourist before being driven to the airport again for my journey home.

 

A few extra notes for anyone thinking of going:

 

Price breakdown – I received 3,360 grafts for a cost of 3,800 Euros (about GBP 3,150) and the flight cost about GBP 400 return. During the trip I spent only GBP 10 of my own money (food and drink are very cheap, and most things are laid on already). That’s a total of just under GBP 3,600 for the entire process. Compare this with my last procedure in London, where I paid almost exactly the same amount, but for only 1,300 grafts. That’s two and a half times the price, and it has gone up since then.

 

Furthermore, I really feel that the quality of the operation was much better this time. Back in London, I chose what I thought was the best clinic in the country and at the time I was quite happy with the results. But the way things are done at Talizi are much, much better and I can tell the difference. The procedure was much better orchestrated (with about 12 assistants all working on me). It’s clear that Dr Tsilosani is not just there to rush patients through and make as much money as he can. He could have sold me a more expensive option, but chose to be honest and open with me instead. And the whole procedure was a relaxed affair, with plenty of time for questions, tea breaks etc. The impression I got was that the staff were there for me, and were more than happy to stay there for as long as it took to do the job properly. (I mention this because I’ve seen one or two posts suggesting that in order to offer such good prices they must cut corners somewhere. From my experience I can say that this is absolutely not the case, as everything here was of a better quality than it was the first time in London. Wages in Georgia are about one tenth of those in the West, so labour costs are not a problem even when they use highly-trained staff who are paid many times the national average. They also don’t have the same rent to pay as a Harley Street clinic).

 

The methods he uses in the procedure are a considerable improvement on last time, too. The recipient sites are healing up very nicely – last time they were still bleeding for more than a week, but this time they were all clear on the 2nd day, and they feel much less sensitive. The donor area at the back of my head is also healing much better than last time. The closure is tidier and less bumpy, and it feels as though I’m ready to go straight back to work (the only thing stopping me is the fact that I still have a small shaven area showing at the back, so I’ll need to wait a couple of weeks until that grows over). Really, there’s no comparison.

 

As for the results, it’s a little early to be giving a judgement on that but the fact is I can already see that it’s going to be great. The distribution of the grafts is really good and the density seems to be very natural. I’m really pleased so far, and I know it’s going to be even better once these grafts start to grow out and thicken.

 

Local amenities: The gorgeous town centre is within walking distance, or you can take a taxi anywhere in the city for about GBP 2. Just around the corner from the hotel is a large, modern deli/supermarket that sells anything you might need in food/drink. There are also 3 branches of McDonald’s in the town, the closest is about half a mile from the hotel. The only foreign bank I saw was HSBC, with two branches within walking distance. The time difference is 3 hours from London time.

 

Payment: Akaki mentioned that, unsurprisingly, they sometimes have problems processing card payments from customers, so it is worth taking a number of different payment options or at least making sure that you have the phone number for your bank handy. Georgia is one of those countries that credit card companies may be suspicious of, so it may be worth advising your bank in advance that you intend to travel there. The alternative is to take cash (Euros or US$), as I did. This may seem foolish, but I’ve travelled to a lot of different countries and think I have a good feel for which places are safe. The reason I took cash was that by buying Euros in the UK I was able to get the best possible rate, and I didn’t have to pay the outrageous card fees that many banks charge on overseas transactions. This may have saved me a couple of hundred Euros on the final bill, plus there was never any danger of having a failed card transaction on the day. As I would be picked up at the airport and driven to the hotel, I was prepared to risk it.

 

I think that’s about it; apologies if you think this was too much detail, but I would have really welcomed this kind of information before making the decision to go out to Georgia myself. If anyone has any questions about my experience I’d be happy to do my best to answer them.

Edited August 26, 2010 by linchpin

[1966kph]

hello linchpin,you should be a author with posts that long you could soon knock out a novel or two,glad you had a good experiance in georgia and i sincerely wish you the best of growth,have you any pictures you could share here?and please try to keep us imformed as things progress,all the best and have a nice day.....

[Sparky]

That account just doesnt sound like it was written by someone who has english as thier first language.

[linchpin]

kph, thank you for your comments. As for you Sparky, I don't know what to say - except that I assume you're North American and therefore have different grammar to us Brits. Or perhaps you're making a sly suggestion that you think I'm some kind of East European spy for the Talizi clinic...?

 

Well, to be honest I don't really care that much. I wrote the post above (below?) because I thought it might be helpful for anyone else considering the same trip, given the general lack of information on this topic, and it's entirely up to you what you decide to make of it.

 

Back to you kph, there's not much to report as yet, except that I seem to be having an excellent recovery from the procedure. My head feels pretty much like normal (just a little sensitive to accidental knocks) and I've actually been back at work today with a hat on, just six days after the operation.

 

From what I remember from the last procedure I had, all these new implants will fall out over the next week or so, leaving me pretty thin on top until they start growing out properly again in a few weeks' time, so I guess I won't know much until then.

 

As for photos, I'm not all that keen on posting photos of myself on the web, for obvious reasons, but if I can manage to take any showing just the hair region I'll reconsider.

 

And thanks for the interest, by the way. This is the first forum I've ever joined so it was quite nice getting two replies within the first few hours!

[Sparky]

I'm from England. We get a lot of shills on here appearing just as new clinics arrive, and i've never met anyone in the UK that refers to money like this:- GBP 3,150, most people would say 3150 pounds, thats why it seemed odd to me, no offense meant.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Sparky

[Sparky]

Also, I wouldnt make a sly suggestion, i'd just come right and and say I think that your a shill.

[linchpin]

Fair enough, and it's a good point. Normally I would just use a pound sign, but as this is an international forum I figured that it would probably show up in the text as an error character for most users.

 

I don't know if you're familiar with invoicing in the UK, but it's quite common to use "GBP" in business-to-business invoices, which is something I'm quite used to. And I prefer it to using the word "pounds" which to me always seems a bit lame as it also indicates weight. I guess I should have just swallowed my pride and given everything in Euros or US$ instead!

[Sparky]

Yeah the pound sign on here doesnt work, it comes up like this ?. It used to work on the old forum though

[Happy]

hi linchpin,

 

thanks for sharing your experience. i personally found your report also including your advice great.

 

as for the surgery, 2 questions:

 

"Akaki explained to me how I could expect to have better results with faster healing, greater density and less trauma than normal"

 

what does he do differently that justifies his statement?

 

also, I noticed that the doc started with fue first. what was the reason for that?

[Happy]

Dear Members!

 

 

I want to say something about why our clinic may seem so different from other HT clinics. During 11 years we held scientific researches, we have patents in suture closing method, anesthesia, etc.

 

We also perform FUE transplantation and can afford up to 2000 grafts during one session.

 

We are proud that our patients never have swells and patients don't feel pain nor during the operation and after it.

 

.

 

hello talizi,

 

can you provide more information about your patents in anesthetics and in suture closing methods and how they are different or better compared to eg. trichophtyic closure?

 

also, it would be good to see results using fue.

[linchpin]

Hi Happy, thanks for your kind comment, I appreciate it. I'll do my best to answer although I'm no expert in this area so I'm not totally clear about which particular things may have helped. I can tell you that the results seem to be excellent, my hairline is back to where it was ten years ago and everything behind it looks as though it will grow out to be dense and natural-looking again.

 

What I can do is talk about the difference between this procedure and the first one I had in London, but that's about as far as my expertise goes. First of all, the faster healing and less trauma:

 

Dr Tsilosani (I'm going to call him Akaki, as we were on first-name terms during my visit anyway) seems to do a number of things that make the procedure easier on the patient. The anaesthesia was swift and painless (he managed to numb my entire head with just two injections in the eyebrows) and the implant sites are punched in varying sizes to fit each follicle depending on whether it contained 1, 2 or 3 hairs, so that a very tight fit was made around each implanted follicle. (Back in London the implant sites were created using a scalpel rather than a punch. The scalpel slits were clearly much less accurate and had much more bleeding than Akaki's method).

 

But the decisive factor seems to be that with a dozen people all working on me at once they were able to get the grafts separated and implanted again within a very short time (back in London there were only 4 people including the doctor, and it took all day to do just 1300 grafts). A key factor in the survivability of grafts is the length of time they spend outside the body, so by operating with such a large and efficient team at the clinic they were able to reduce this time to a minimum.

 

Also, the healing of the implant sites was helped by the short time it took from punching each hole to filling it again with a transplanted follicle. From the little bit of medicine I know, it's obvious that this is a good thing and it helps with healing if you can minimise the time it takes to complete the operation. I think all of the above might account for some of what he means by 'less trauma.' Basically, I can't imagine any way the process could have been done any more accurately or efficiently than it was.

 

As for results, in my case I experienced much less bleeding than I had after my first procedure (I was pretty much clear by the second day) and the implant sites have been less sensitive. Now a week or so later my head feels almost like normal.

 

Also, a major difference was the way the strip at the back of my head was closed up. Back in London, it was just a quick stitch-up job with little thought given to how it might heal. I remember I had a bumpy ridge around the back of my head that lasted for a couple of months afterwards, and the closure was not particularly straight or tidy.

 

Akaki used a different technique, and it was a trychophytic closure. I couldn't see what he was doing (as it was at the back of my head!) but he explained the technique to me on a bit of paper afterwards. He also used some excellent clamping devices that he said he had developed himself, and these helped make the closure a quick and easy process. He also cut out the old scar when taking the strip, even though this meant the number of grafts available would not be so high (The hair density in scar tissue is lower than that in normal scalp tissue, so, by opting to extract a strip containing scar tissue he actually reduced the average donor density and also the amount that he was able to charge me for the procedure, in order that I would have a neater result at the back of my head).

 

Certainly the result here was much better than last time. At the end of the procedure I had a chance to look more closely in the mirror, and I could see the closure was perfectly straight and very tidy, with almost no sign of blood. Apart from some tension at the back of my neck (due to having the remaining skin stretched over the strip) it has been absolutely fine, and there's no bump this time - the back of my head feels smooth.

 

You also asked why the doctor started with FUE. I asked the same question and he explained that, as the FUE extractions are made in the area above the strip, it helps with elasticity to take them out first. That is to say, by making holes in the skin above the strip it will make it easier for him to pull the two sides closed again afterwards because there is more flexibility in the skin above if it has a few holes in it.

 

As I said, I wrote the first post because I thought it might help other people who are considering this clinic. When I made my decision to go there I had very little information to go on, so I would have welcomed any review by someone who had been there before me. Now if just one other person on this forum decides to go there too, then they can come home and write another review and we might start to build up a picture about this clinic and how good it is.

 

Given that their prices are about a third of the prices in the UK and their techniques are at least as good (or probably much better), if the British clinics start losing patients to places like Georgia and Pakistan it might make them reconsider the outrageous prices they charge, and that would be better for everyone!

 

Cheers.

Edited August 24, 2010 by linchpin
Grammatical error

[linchpin]

Happy, I just noticed I forgot to answer your question about 'greater density.' Well, it seems the good doctor has not stood still over the years, and his clinic is also involved in ongoing research into new methods. Apparently he visits other clinics around the world to learn and also gives lectures on the techniques he develops.

 

Anyhow, this leads me on to the density thing. He showed me some pictures of research he's done over the years into methods of achieving high densities of implants, almost up to natural density. He said he can comfortably achieve over 100 grafts per square centimetre for the average patient.

 

If I look at the hairline he's just implanted for me I can see that the density is really thick - it's almost scary how natural it looks, when only a week or so ago there was nothing there at all. The follicles at the front were all implants of single-hair follicles (this avoids the 'dolls-hair' look that you might get if you implant 3-hair follicles there) which makes it even harder for the surgeon to do, yet the result has been outstanding.

 

Further back the implants are a bit more spread-out, and this is the region where the 2-hair and 3-hair follicles are planted (most of the 3-hair ones went in my crown). But in this area the hairs will be allowed to grow out longer, according to my hairstyle, so there is less need for such dense implanting here.

Edited August 24, 2010 by linchpin
Grammatical error

[Happy]

great response, thanks again linchpin!

 

i've noticed there are further questions which i hope you don't mind answering.

 

to make it easier for you i have divided them into the following posts:

[Happy]

pre-surgery consultation and ht planning

 

before you flew to georgia i suppose all your pre-op consultation with the doc was done via email and maybe phone conversations. i am wondering whether you were provided with a donor management plan beforehand and how it looked, just in case.

[Happy]

donor density

 

you mentioned that the doc had a special device to measure your donor density. was it a densitometer or something else? and did you see anything showing up on screen? it would be great if you could elaborate on that also including your donor density. did the result also include eg. the average size of your grafts? or the percentage of miniaturisation?

[Happy]

choice of clinic

 

i understand that you did a lot of research before you made the decision to go exactly for this clinic. what was the particular reason why you didn't choose eg. the world renowned clinic by dr humanyan from pakistan and who offers much better rates in doing a strip procedure?

[Happy]

size of the implant sites

 

i understand that the doc is the only one who makes the implant sites. and you wrote that the doc uses different sizes of punches to accommodate the various sizes of the grafts. i had a look at their website including a video showing the making of the implant sites but could only see the doc using just one and the same tool throughout the entire procedure. did you notice that he changed the punch or not?

[Happy]

number of harvested grafts

 

i understand that your doc got more than 3300 grafts out of the strip and which is quite a lot. what was the size of the strip (length and width)? and did you get a breakdown how many single-, double-, triple- and quadruple grafts were harvested?

[Happy]

donor density

 

you wrote that the doc would be capable of planting 100 grafts per cm2 and which is great if, as a patient you have got this amount of donor capacity in the first place. anyway, i am wondering whether the doc also placed grafts between your thinning hair and what his new techniques look like in order to minimise shock loss. by the way, would it be possible if you took some pics so that people here can literally see what's been going on. it definitely would be appreciated in particular by other potential candidates who also might be considering taking the plunge and to try this clinic out.

[linchpin]

great response, thanks again linchpin!

 

i've noticed there are further questions which i hope you don't mind answering.

 

to make it easier for you i have divided them into the following posts:

 

 

Wow! That's a lot of questions!

 

I'll do my best to answer them, but bear in mind I'm just a patient so I might not know all the technical details you're asking for...

[linchpin]

pre-surgery consultation and ht planning

 

before you flew to georgia i suppose all your pre-op consultation with the doc was done via email and maybe phone conversations. i am wondering whether you were provided with a donor management plan beforehand and how it looked, just in case.

 

 

Yes, the pre-op consultation was entirely by email. The clinic did provide me with their telephone number but I figured that it would probably cost quite a bit to put calls through to Georgia.

 

Dr Tsilosani asked me to email him some photos of both the donor and recipient areas so that he could make his own judgement in addition to my suggestions of what I thought was needed. At this point there was no discussion of how many grafts he thought he might be able to harvest; we only discussed the number that we thought might be needed to return my head to a reasonably natural-looking state. This number was 3,000 - 3,500 grafts.

 

I was advised to do some massage exercises on the donor area to improve 'laxity,' which I understand to mean flexibility of the donor area skin tissue, and I did the exercises daily before my trip.