dht levels

[mobius]

hey, i was just wonderin is there a way to find out whether ur blood carries excess dht levels or not??(well obvsly d symptom would be hair loss)but apart from that does testosterone test help in finding it out?

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by mobius:

hey, i was just wonderin is there a way to find out whether ur blood carries excess dht levels or not??(well obvsly d symptom would be hair loss)but apart from that does testosterone test help in finding it out?

 

Your doctor can do a blood test and it'll tell you that. If your family doc then doesn't know the effects on hairloss, you might run it by a hair transplant doctor who is also a dermatologist.

 

I talked with Dr. Cooley about mine, as I take a testosterone replacement gel as mine was low. Although I was pretty much doped up when we spoke about it, I think I remember him saying something to the effect that just because you testosterone level is high, the other kind can be blocked.... or something. Anyway, he sounded like I'd be ok with my regimen so I'd inquire.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

ON MOST OF THE BODYBUILDING FORUMS THEY SAY TO TAKE 5MG OF FIN A DAY TO COMBAT THE 3X ELEVATED DHT LEVELS WHEN TAKING ANDRO GEL, AND HALF THAT DOSE FOR SHOTS. I WOULDNT TOUCH THAT STUFF WITH A 10 FOOT POLE UNLESS I HAD KENNEDY HAIR .

THIS STUFF CAN BE GREAT FOR EVERYTHING BUT WICKED ON HAIR IN THE LONG RUN.

[Dewayne]

My testosterone isn't being elevated above normal levels; I'm trying to raise it up to normal levels.

 

It won't affect my hair anymore than your normal DHT levels affect yours.

 

Having low testosterone levels sure as hell hasn't helped me have more hair, for sure.

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by HT55:

Originally posted by Dewayne:

 

It won't affect my hair anymore than your normal DHT levels affect yours.

 

 

 

Have you ever had your DHT levels checked or are you just guessing ?

 

How long have you been on the gel ?

 

TRT is a tricking game of checks and balances and it's very hard to get your T and E2 levels correct without using more than one drug.

 

DHT levels are usually higher in people taking Androgel than people with normal T levels as the Gel converts to DHT very easilly.

 

I have it checked pretty regularly at my doctor, along with my cholesterol.

 

I had high tryglicerides, and initially took Tricor to bring it down. I felt the Tricor was causing me to sort of lose interest in sex and talked to my doctor. He suggested we check the testosterone and it was low... It was like 130 or something. Now, when I take 5 mg daily of the Andro Gel it is usually between 400 - 425, which is normal but still on the low side.

 

What caused this? I don't know, but what I'm saying is I don't take the stuff to have high testosterone or build muscle, lose hair, etc. It is a "replacement" therapy and I'm using it for it's intended purpose. Maybe I'm the only one, I don't know. But since I have NORMAL levels while taking the Androgel, I shouldn't have to worry about any hairloss.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/06/28/has-low-testosterone-kept-my-hair/

 

A mon wed fri dose of fin is taking a chance with a trt that triples dht. Your adding dht to the dht you produce naturally. Its like trying to empty Lake Michigan with a dixie cup

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/06/28/has-low-testosterone-kept-my-hair/

 

A mon wed fri dose of fin is taking a chance with a trt that triples dht. Your adding dht to the dht you produce naturally. Its like trying to empty Lake Michigan with a dixie cup

 

Thanks for the link, but this quote from Dr. Rassman is all I found in the form of an answer...If you are asking me if your low testosterone has helped you keep your hair, well if you have genetic balding it might have helped a little.

 

I discussed this very issue with Dr. Cooley and left out pretty confident that he knew what he was talking about. I haven't had any shedding from the transplant, Rogaine, Proscar, AndroGel or Lipitor so I'm not too worried by that. Damn, that's a lot of stuff to be taking...

 

HT55; Taking the Androgel and raising my T from 130 or so up to 400 does make a difference in how I feel. It's not dramatic, per se, but I can feel more energy, more desire for sex, and a little better focus.

 

I don't know my SHBG level. There's a new doctor arriving at the practice I go to, and I plan on changing to him. My doctor is smart and all, but not a terrific communicator. I'm hoping to find one who's better at that here in a month or so.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I copied the wrong link . Let me see if I can find it . Well if everything is fine then your in great shape. Some people respond good to test. Others in the long run recieve a big smack in the face If you do start thinning you can be sure that your dht has skyrocketed and the doses of fin you are currently on need to be increased. Have your estrogen checked also .

High estrogen can cause sexual problems weight gain water retention and excessive soap opera viewing

[Dewayne]

Originally posted by HT55:

Dewayne,

 

What kind of Dr do you got to for TRT ?

 

How long have you been on the Gel ?

 

Also have you ever had a DHT blood test for your DHT level not your total T level.

 

YOur DR should be at a minimum doing the following tests

 

LH

 

FSH

 

E2 Estrodial snsitive assay test

 

SHBG

 

If you are on TRT for a long time you may need to add some HCG or your "boys" may vanish.

 

This is my family doc, and I've been doing it for 7 - 8 months. It seems the point being missed here is that I don't have elevated levels of testosterone and never have. The Androgel replaces testosterone I don't have, thus bringing it up to normal

levels. Why, if I have normal T levels, should I worry about this other stuff any more than any other person with normal levels?

 

Both Dr. Cooley and my family doctor, who has his M.D. from the Medical College of Georgia and is pretty smart from all indications (except he's sort of bad at communications), agreed this was the thing I needed; so I'm not sure I understand all the other stuff you guys are saying.

 

It's not like I'm shooting up DynaBall or something to be in the next Mr. Georgia contest. I'm taking 5mg of replacement therapy and being checked regularly.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Dewayne this is my last post here because it seems like your getting upset . Your missing the WHOLE point. Androl gel has your TESTOSTERONE levels normal but it is well known compared to test shots that it elevates your DHT levels 3 times as much. Thats why HT55 asked if you had your DHT{causes baldness} levels check along with your testostrone .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrotestosterone

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

The ONLY reason I even posted is to make sure you know about how androgel increases dht levels 3x as much as all the other trt. All you had to say is yes I had my tesosterone levels AND dht levels checked .I think your under the impression that test and dht are the same thing .Dht is converted from test and dht is responsible for hairloss not test itself. Thats why when you had low levels of test you still were losing hair because you had higher levels of dht. Now you add even more levels of dht and only try to destroy then by using a mwf dose its like trying to empty a pool with a shot glass. Bottomline have your DHT levels checked .You dont want them NORMAL you want them low.

If mwf is enough in YOUR body to keep all that dht low then great but for most people that dose isnt enough when on a trt. Just trying to help and believe me when it comes to hormones and trt and hairloss the majority of doctors are clueless

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)

Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

T3 Free T4,Free

reverse T3 (rT3)

TSH

45 Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin Antibodies (7260X)

54 DHEA sulfate

 

These are the test you need

[Dewayne]

No, I'm not getting upset at all. I just don't understand it. I'm about to leave work, but I'll read these last two posts closely when I get home.

 

I was trying to make a point as I thought you, HT55 or I didn't understand what I was trying to say. It might very well be me.... It'll take a little more than DHT talk to get me upset....

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Ok sounds good .Just remember DHT is a byproduct of testostrone and its that frickin DHT that causes hairloss not testostrone before conversion.

If your levels of dht are normal you eventually putting yourself in a good position for future loss. My point is to have your dht levels checked to see if MON WED FRI dose is sufficent

enough to keep dht levels well below normal. If not you better up your doses.

I also do the mwf dose but Im not on trt. They say androgel increases dht ALOT and to be safe you really need to see in mwf dose is enough. I wouldnt post this if your werent on trt. If your dht comes back being in normal range or higher youll know that a mwf regimen is not enough.

[mobius]

hey what is the differnce betwn a testosterone test and free testosteorne test?well i took up the latter test and my results are normal.do i still need to take up the former test to detrmine whther my hair loss is due to dht?

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum

Did you test this?

[mobius]

i am sorry mate, i dont quite get ya,alli did was the free testosterone test and the result came back normal.what do i have to do now?

[DownTown]

when a product says it is anti-dht, does it mean that it removes dht from your hair or does it prevent it from forming?

[Rick055]

Just to add another opinion on the matter...

 

I originally began TRT with transdermals (first androgel, then compounded) and, per testing, my serum DHT skyrocketed. Though it has been noted that serum DHT is a poor indicator of intracellular activity (i.e. just because there's more in your blood does not necessarily translate into prostate issues, etc...) I can tell you that while I was on transdermals my MPB was greatly increased.

 

I have since switched to IM injections and my serum DHT is lower (just over top of range, vs 3X top of range on TDs) and my hair loss has clearly slowed. I am fairly stable.

 

I am preparing to begin propecia in the hopes that I still have some follicles left that merely shed the hair.

 

So the first point is that, all else equal, transdermal testosterone preparations raise DHT more relative to IM injections. The reason for this is because of the interaction with 5AR in the skin. Presumably, the mpore DHT, the more the hiar loss, if one is genetically predisposed.

 

That said, and important for DeWayne to understand, even a rise in testosterone (which is also an androgen, albeit more anabolic than androgenic) hair loss is possible. DHT merely has a higher affinity for the androgen receptor and exerts a more pronounced effect that T does.

 

Said another way, a rise in testosterone, even with NO additional rise in DHT can contribute to hair loss.

 

That said, 1.25 mg finasteride M-W-F may be enough in your case to stave off hairloss related to same.

 

Your DHT may have been low to begin with, also and you may be knocking it down enough with fin so that it's not an issue.

 

But PGP makes an excellent point: without labs, you'll never know. It's also why, in another post, I mention I feel - even on fin alone - it's worthwhile to have baseline T, DHT and E2 labs.

 

You can't have too much information when using a powerful endocrine disruptor like finasteride.

[Rick055]

Originally posted by DownTown:

when a product says it is anti-dht, does it mean that it removes dht from your hair or does it prevent it from forming?

 

It depends on the product.

 

Finasteride is a 5 alpha reductase inhibitor meaning it inhibits the enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT, believed to exert its effects both in the serum and in target tissue (prostate, scalp, etc...)

 

Other "anti-androgens" can be used topically (spironolactone, flutamide, azelaic acid, etc...) to attempt to block DHT solely in the scalp.

[SouthCarolina]

Rick055 ... do you know if testosterone pellets raise DHT levels like the gels do?

 

I am on Androgel and thinking I might lower DHT with pellets as they have a more consistent hormone release as opposed to shots. What do you think?

[Rick055]

Sorry, it's been a while since I logged on.

 

The theoretical answer to your question is "Maybe, but why would you want to?"

 

If you need testosterone replacement therapy, health is the issue, and choosing the best modality of treatment is your overarching concern.

 

I have not heard many success stories with pellets, and they require an invasive office visit.

 

So, if you want to try pellets to see if they work best for your health, great. If (and that's a big IF) their particular pharmacokinetics result in less DHT, great as well.

 

But first choose the TRT most appropriate for you.

 

Here is a great doctor for TRT: www.allthingsmale.com. Check out the publications link which has great information on TRT.

 

MODS, if the link is inappropriate, please remove.

[hdude46]

ok this thread is confusing me....basically this thread is saying that one needs to go to their doctor and ask for a dht test? Do they even have such a thing or will he look at me weird as hell? I'm just confused.

[Rick055]

This is just my opinion.

 

Propecia (finasteride) is believed to work in preventing male pattern baldness by inhibiting the enzyme (5 alpha reductase) which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

 

DHT is believed to be implicated in MPB.

 

DHT is, however, an important hormone. Some users of finasteride report difficulty with sex drive, even when discontinuing the medication.

 

Because it is such a powerful endocrine disruptor, I believe it makes sense to have baseline labs for DHT (as well as testosterone, estradiol, etc...) so if a problem occurs, you may be better able to resolve it favorably.

 

Did my DHT lower too much? Did I convert to too much estradiol?

 

Again, I'm no doctor, this is just my opinion.

 

I use 1.25 mg finasteride EOD without incident.

[hdude46]

so what do i tell my doc to test for, what specifically? i didnt know you could actually test for dht?